Mothering Mamas Who Thoughtfully Vaccinate - Page 3 - Mothering Forums

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#61 of 219 Old 06-12-2012, 08:26 AM
 
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I'm coming late to the discussion, but I am a Mom who made the decision to vaccinate after a lot of careful consideration and research. My family medical history includes several cases of family members who had serious complications from vaccine preventable diseases, so that factored into my decision.

 

My son was born with autism.  Vaccines had nothing to do with it. He also has several other genetic conditions, including albinism and a rare chromosome anomaly.  He also had developmental issues in the womb (cystic hygroma). 

 

(And before anyone asks: No I did not get any vaxes while pregnant - I had colds all during flu season, so I wasn't able to get the vax.  And No, DS did not get the Hep B at birth -  at the time our doc routinely gave it at the 2 month check up.)

 

I have no regrets for vaccinating my child and I respect the decisions that other families make for their kids.

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#62 of 219 Old 06-12-2012, 09:19 AM
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Alrighty folks, now that we have reached some sort of pleasant-ish conclusion, I am asking those who identify as non-vaxers to step back and allow our thoughtful vaccinating mamas to have a discussion without non-vaccinating input from non-vaxers.  This seems fair to me as you have an entire forum in which to discuss your non-vaxing choices, and they have - at this point - one thread. 

 

I am hoping a nice request will work, and that we can remove to our separate corners and continue discussions from there. smile.gif

 

Some guidelines for threads of this type: these are not for discussing members on other threads, they are not for copying and pasting from other threads you disagree with to discuss them.  If we end up with two warring threads where members are being discussed of comments being picked apart, they will be shut down.

 

If we have situations where non-vaxers continue to thread crash, I will block those folks from this thread.

 

Now then, I sincerely hope that we can just part ways and have a lovely day. 

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#63 of 219 Old 06-12-2012, 04:22 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Lollybrat View Post

I'm coming late to the discussion, but I am a Mom who made the decision to vaccinate after a lot of careful consideration and research. My family medical history includes several cases of family members who had serious complications from vaccine preventable diseases, so that factored into my decision.

 

My son was born with autism.  Vaccines had nothing to do with it. He also has several other genetic conditions, including albinism and a rare chromosome anomaly.  He also had developmental issues in the womb (cystic hygroma). 

 

(And before anyone asks: No I did not get any vaxes while pregnant - I had colds all during flu season, so I wasn't able to get the vax.  And No, DS did not get the Hep B at birth -  at the time our doc routinely gave it at the 2 month check up.)

 

I have no regrets for vaccinating my child and I respect the decisions that other families make for their kids.

Right on, Lollybrat!

 

So, like, now that we've identified each other, vaccinating mamas, what shall we talk about?

 

I like vaccines and think they're cool, so I wouldn't mind just having a lighthearted discussion about them. For instance, what country is everyone from? How do the schedules differ?

 

I just recently learned that they do Hep B at birth in the US? Is that true? We don't get that one until later here.

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#64 of 219 Old 06-12-2012, 05:40 PM
 
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I'm late to the discussion too, but we vaccinate on schedule as well based on the relative risk of adverse reactions vs. complications from a VPD.  I'm glad to see more vaccinating mamas here...I thought I was a very small minority of babywearing, extended breastfeeding, AP-type, vaccinating mamas.

 

Prosciencemum: Your philosophy/reasoning is very similar to mine....nicely stated.


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#65 of 219 Old 06-12-2012, 05:44 PM
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Yup, the US does hep b at birth. When I first heard of this I was told that the population most at risk is often lost to follow-up, and at one point I heard there was an effort to eradicate hep b in the US that made reaching that population vital.

Since then, I've also heard that hep b is more transmissible than people tend to think. Apparently it's NOT just sex and needles that people get it from and little kids can pick it up from household contacts. I don't have good info on that, though.
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#66 of 219 Old 06-12-2012, 05:51 PM
 
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That is my understanding. Before the vaccine something like 18k kids a year got hep b, around half of which were from their mothers at birth. Even I you avoid getting it at birth If you live with a mother who has hep b the odds are not in your favor. There a fair amount of kid to kid transmission, too.
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#67 of 219 Old 06-12-2012, 06:09 PM
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I've been told hep b can be transmitted by biting.
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#68 of 219 Old 06-12-2012, 07:10 PM
 
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That is my understanding. Before the vaccine something like 18k kids a year got hep b, around half of which were from their mothers at birth. Even I you avoid getting it at birth If you live with a mother who has hep b the odds are not in your favor. There a fair amount of kid to kid transmission, too.

Could you please supply a link to a reputable source for your assertion that "there is a fair amount of kid to kid transmission of hep B?"
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#69 of 219 Old 06-12-2012, 07:20 PM
 
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I don't remember where I read it, hence the incredibly precise characterization. Probably the CDC to chop pages on hepatitis.
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#70 of 219 Old 06-12-2012, 07:22 PM
 
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Here's the first hit on a google search

http://www.pkids.org/immunizations/HBV_kids_infect_kids.html
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#71 of 219 Old 06-12-2012, 10:57 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I'm late to the discussion too, but we vaccinate on schedule as well based on the relative risk of adverse reactions vs. complications from a VPD.  I'm glad to see more vaccinating mamas here...I thought I was a very small minority of babywearing, extended breastfeeding, AP-type, vaccinating mamas.

 

Prosciencemum: Your philosophy/reasoning is very similar to mine....nicely stated.

 

Thanks. I'm so happy with how this thread is going. It's so nice to know (instead of just suspect) that there are lots of AP vaccinating mamas. :) 

 

 Now it exists and we've found each other I think my main goal is full-filled. I just think it's great to have this thread here (as well as all the non or selayed/selective vaccination resources) as a resource for new AP mums starting to think about this issue. 


Mother of two living in UK. Daughter (2007) born in USA, son (2010) born here. I'm pro natural birth, midwife care, breastfeeding, co-sleeping, baby wearing and a keen advocate of cloth diapering. I'm a full time working research scientist (physical sciences) and I'm pro-vaccine.

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#72 of 219 Old 06-12-2012, 11:00 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Right on, Lollybrat!

 

So, like, now that we've identified each other, vaccinating mamas, what shall we talk about?

 

I like vaccines and think they're cool, so I wouldn't mind just having a lighthearted discussion about them. For instance, what country is everyone from? How do the schedules differ?

 

I just recently learned that they do Hep B at birth in the US? Is that true? We don't get that one until later here.

 

In the UK babies who's Mums have tested positive for Heb B can get it shortly after birth, but it's otherwise not a standard vaccination: http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/Hepatitis-B/Pages/Introduction.aspx

 

 

 

 

Quote (from the above link):

There is a vaccine that is thought to be 95% effective in preventing hepatitis B. Due to the relative rarity of hepatitis B in England, the vaccine is not given as part of the routine childhood vaccination schedule.

Vaccination would usually only be recommended for people in high-risk groups, such as:

  • people who inject drugs or have a sexual partner who injects drugs
  • people who change their sexual partner frequently
  • people travelling to or from a part of the world where hepatitis B is widespread

Pregnant women are also screened for hepatitis B, and if they are infected their baby can be vaccinated shortly after birth to prevent them from also becoming infected.

 

Is Hep B more widespread in the US than the UK? MichelleZB - remind me where you are from (sorry if you've already said). 


Mother of two living in UK. Daughter (2007) born in USA, son (2010) born here. I'm pro natural birth, midwife care, breastfeeding, co-sleeping, baby wearing and a keen advocate of cloth diapering. I'm a full time working research scientist (physical sciences) and I'm pro-vaccine.

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#73 of 219 Old 06-13-2012, 05:45 AM
 
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If you think there's the interest for it, I might recommend you guys start a group! That way you can discuss anything you like without the additional forum guidelines we have here in Vax. Plus, groups are self-moderated, so you won't have to put up with me if you don't want to. smile.gif

http://www.mothering.com/community/a/groups-guidelines

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#74 of 219 Old 06-13-2012, 06:12 AM
 
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Since then, I've also heard that hep b is more transmissible than people tend to think. Apparently it's NOT just sex and needles that people get it from and little kids can pick it up from household contacts. I don't have good info on that, though.


I was told by our pediatrician that there is also a suspected strong pattern of infants getting it from Hep B positive caregivers in those early months.  Hep B is rampant in parts if Asia.  According to the WHO, 8-10% of the adult population in China and 2-5% of the adult population in India.  When I postponed the Hep B vaccine from birth to two months he asked if DD2 would have any contact with caregivers esp from Asia during that time. 


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#75 of 219 Old 06-13-2012, 06:24 AM
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If you think there's the interest for it, I might recommend you guys start a group! That way you can discuss anything you like without the additional forum guidelines we have here in Vax. Plus, groups are self-moderated, so you won't have to put up with me if you don't want to. smile.gif
http://www.mothering.com/community/a/groups-guidelines


But new people can't join groups without permission.  It makes the conversation very difficult to access. 

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#76 of 219 Old 06-13-2012, 07:02 AM
 
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It's really not that hard, I promise. smile.gif All the DDCs are set up this way now, and they're very popular and active!

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#77 of 219 Old 06-13-2012, 07:29 AM
 
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Wait I thought we were fine to discuss here... now we're not?

 

Confused. 

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#78 of 219 Old 06-13-2012, 07:33 AM
 
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I don't mind either way, but I do like having a thread here in the vaccination forum. I think that people researching the vaccination decision come to this forum and it would be nice for them to see that there's a thriving group of vaccinating mamas. I also don't mind if people come to ask questions here, etc. 

 

And I'm from Canada! I have no idea about Hep B statistics.

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#79 of 219 Old 06-13-2012, 07:42 AM
 
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I'm pretty sure groups can be open membership. I'd be less concerned about that and more concerned about people finding us. I would be willing to help lead such a group.

 

We have delayed Hep B so far (daughter turns 1 this month) but we are probably going to get the vaccine for her soon. It seemed silly to me to vaccinate her as a newborn and I was okay with waiting until closer to puberty, but my husband is concerned that she'll decide to play "blood sisters" with some kid in grade school, and our doctor thinks we should do it before she's 3 or 4 and REALLY doesn't want a shot. I do recollect reading something about people getting Hep B from sharing nail clippers. Nobody in our family is positive, but as she moves out among more people it's probably a good idea.

 

Thing with Hep B, it starts out acute and can then become chronic, and if a little kid gets it, they're MUCH more likely for it to become chronic than if an adult gets it.

 

Also, I hate even thinking about it, but kids DO get sexually abused, at alarming rates. I would like to think that my own vigilance at who I let be around my daughter, and what people skills I teach her as she gets older, can reduce the risk of this happening to her. But if the unthinkable happened, and she got sexually abused AND contracted Hep B from it, I would feel like a big jerk for having withheld that vaccine and making a bad situation worse.

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#80 of 219 Old 06-13-2012, 07:48 AM
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It's really not that hard, I promise. smile.gif All the DDCs are set up this way now, and they're very popular and active!


Once upon a time, people could post in DDCs if they were passing by and someone had a question about something they knew about.  I used to drop in from time to time if people had questions about cloth diapering or establishing breast-feeding or natural birth in hospitals or whatever.  Now I can't.  I know mods love them and they're popular and active, but they are also exclusionary and prevent people from posting casually, which is fine if you want to have a conversation with a very specific group of people and no one else, but kinda sucky if you want people to be able to pop in and ask a question or offer a comment who don't want to commit to a process and ask permission first.

 

Plus, do you really want to deal with the myriad ways they could be deployed in this hostile context?  We could have the thoughtful discussion of vaccines group for everyone but that one guy who everyone finds pretty annoying.  And then the dueling pro- and anti-vax groups that mock each other.  And the group that bans everyone who mentions Paul Offit with its natural counterpart, the other group that allows entry only to people with a long posting history who have never once cited Mercola.  It just doesn't seem to me like a viable solution either for having a conversation that lots of people can participate in or for creating equality between the anti-vaxers (why don't THEY make a group, since there's talk of dispensing with sub-forums?) or for addressing the hostility that has pervaded the conversation of late.  

 

Like lmacerka, I thought we were welcome to have the conversation here and people who jumped in to trash vaccination would be removed from this thread, and now I'm confused. 

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#81 of 219 Old 06-13-2012, 08:16 AM
 
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I don't want to make this thread about groups. I thought y'all would like the idea, but you're certainly not required to make one. The concerns you've voiced are addressed in the link I provided, not to mention at least somewhat assuaged by the dozens of successful groups we've had since this option came online.

Of course you're welcome to continue the conversation in this thread. I just thought the conversation was turning from a rollcall thread into a discussion thread, and given the issues you've had already, I thought you might like a different environment in which to continue the conversation.

Sheesh... I was trying to be helpful, honest!

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#82 of 219 Old 06-13-2012, 08:17 AM
 
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I too would like to know why they get a sub-forum and we don't if Mothering is not actually anti-vax. if we can't even keep anti-vaxers off our one thread, then in practice pro-vax viewpoints are not actually being supported to the same extent.

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#83 of 219 Old 06-13-2012, 09:04 AM
 
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I offer folks a place where they can talk about whatever, whenever they want, and people get upset or confused because they think they can't talk here. I confirm that they can talk here, and then folks ask why they can't have their own place.

surrender.gif

On a serious note, though, that question has been asked and answered more times than I can count, particularly over the last month; and I think anyone wanting to know more would benefit from doing a quick search and getting up to speed. smile.gif

Back to the topic at hand, I think someone asked about vax schedules in other countries... This article has a few links for UK, Japan, Australia, etc. http://www.immunizationinfo.org/issues/general/immunizations-when-moving-or-traveling-abroad

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#84 of 219 Old 06-13-2012, 09:05 AM
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Whoa....slow down folks.  She was just suggesting another option.  No one is saying you have to do it.

 

Way back when, when people use to ask for a sub forum we ask them to demonstrate need.  They needed to start a tribal thread in FYT, keep is active for a month and show that there was interest, and enough people that we would not end up with a dead sub forum three weeks after we opened it.  Please do keep in mind that most of our sub forums have been opened in this manner.  And keep in mind that until recently, we didn't have a sense that a Vaccinating Mamas forum might be wanted or needed.  Additionally, we are looking at decreasing sub forums across the board, so we aren't adding any right this exact moment.

 

I have asked the non-vaxers to not post and bring their viewpoints to the thread.  We are working on keeping it to just mamas who vax.  


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#85 of 219 Old 06-13-2012, 09:12 AM
 
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How do you know who is a non vaxxer? The moderation is creeping me out. Like someone with a siggy that states I don't vax? Can you explain this to me? 

A group seems like a perfectly reasonable idea, since the notion of someone not allowed to post in the basic "vaccination" forum is bananas. Regardless of the thread title. 

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#86 of 219 Old 06-13-2012, 09:20 AM
 
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I'm out.  This is getting weirder and weirder.

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#87 of 219 Old 06-13-2012, 10:47 AM
 
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LOLZ I am a member of lots of real-life groups and they're all like this! What should our name be (drama) where should we meet (drama).

 

I vote we just stop worrying about any of this and just keep posting in our thread and having fun! I like that this thread is a pro-vaccine environment, but I don't feel super hardcore about keeping all others away. If someone questioning vaccinations shows up every once in awhile and wants to ask a question or get something clarified, that's fine with me. I sort of like that the hardcore debating is happening elsewhere.

 

Anyway, re: Hep B at birth. Here in Canada they either get it in 3 doses from 4-12 months or in 2 doses when they are teenagers.  Or they give it to infants at birth if the mother is infected. (I got the shot when I was an adult; my mother questioned vaccines and excused me from getting the shot at school.) Anyway, I wonder if I was in US, if I would perhaps delay that vaccine a bit. As you know, I'm not at all against vaccines, but being born seems like an awful lot to go through for one day. I would probably see if I could get it in the doctor's office after a week or two.

 

Anyway, I know this isn't a thread about delays, but it's interesting to note that not all kids get shots at birth.

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#88 of 219 Old 06-13-2012, 10:55 AM
 
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How do you know who is a non vaxxer? The moderation is creeping me out. Like someone with a siggy that states I don't vax? Can you explain this to me? 

A group seems like a perfectly reasonable idea, since the notion of someone not allowed to post in the basic "vaccination" forum is bananas. Regardless of the thread title. 

 

I'm not fond of overmoderation. I'm not fond of restricting who can participate in threads and who can't. I'm not fond of "support only" threads that are really just echo chambers. 

 

But when I originally posted on this thread, I predicted that some non-vaxxer was going jump on whatever I said, however I said it. So I tried to be as neutral as I could and related only my own experience. And sure enough, it didn't take long at all for someone to nitpick away at what I wrote and try to inflate it into an argument. 

 

I'm a big girl and this isn't a topic that I can get worked up about. So I rolled my eyes (about a thousand million times - almost sprained something!) and clarified my post and carried on. 

 

I can understand, though, how someone would be intimidated by knowing that whatever they wrote was going to be scrutinized minutely for offensive details and fiercely chewed over and that they must be prepared to defend themselves, no matter how carefully they tried to avoid saying anything controversial. I can understand someone deciding that the drama just isn't worth it.

 

So I think a little attention from the moderators and erring on the side of caution isn't harmful, at least in the current climate in this forum. And thanks to the mods for your efforts, btw. 

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#89 of 219 Old 06-13-2012, 11:09 AM
 
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I'm out.  This is getting weirder and weirder.

Aww, don't go!

 

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I offer folks a place where they can talk about whatever, whenever they want, and people get upset or confused because they think they can't talk here. I confirm that they can talk here, and then folks ask why they can't have their own place.
surrender.gif
On a serious note, though, that question has been asked and answered more times than I can count, particularly over the last month; and I think anyone wanting to know more would benefit from doing a quick search and getting up to speed. smile.gif
Back to the topic at hand, I think someone asked about vax schedules in other countries... This article has a few links for UK, Japan, Australia, etc. http://www.immunizationinfo.org/issues/general/immunizations-when-moving-or-traveling-abroad

Well, I'm sorry to have contributed to the drowning sensation. I appreciate Adina's answer to my question. My concerns really amount to about the same as others have mentioned--are we (pro-vaxers) considered equally welcome on MDC? And if so, then why does the "other side" have their own subforum and we don't? It's partly an issue of access and partly an issue of how newbies are going to see the situation and whether they're even going to find us.

 

I mean, I'm glad we have this thread, because before we didn't have even a thread, but I also wonder why we're expected to be glad simply to have a thread while the non-vaxers have an entire subforum to themselves (even if we are allowed to post there, we have to keep our comments within certain subjects, so it's not really relevant to tell us we can post anywhere we want). If that makes sense.

 

If it comes down to a matter of showing there is enough interest, we can see if there is or not; if it comes down to a matter of all the subforums being gone, then it's kind of a moot point.

 

edited for clarity.

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#90 of 219 Old 06-13-2012, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by poppylove View Post

How do you know who is a non vaxxer? The moderation is creeping me out. Like someone with a siggy that states I don't vax? Can you explain this to me? 

A group seems like a perfectly reasonable idea, since the notion of someone not allowed to post in the basic "vaccination" forum is bananas. Regardless of the thread title. 

 

 

Mostly, you don't.  However there have been several people who are non-vaxers that have stated as much on this thread...pretty sure you know who they are. :)  It was mostly those folks I was speaking to, in order to give you guys some space to have your own thread. Just trying to give you guys some space.


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