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#181 of 219 Old 11-01-2012, 07:24 AM
 
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Glad to have found this thread.  I believe in most of the tenets of attachment parenting especially in regards to discipline, babywearing and breastfeeding. We are vaccinating our 17 month old fairly close to the CDC schedule.  I research for a living (though I am in the social sciences not the Natural sciences) and did so with vaccines.  Once I did the research on vaccination I fell on the side of vaccinating.  I didn't find validity to the vaccine profits argument, since I could make the same argument about individuals advocating not vaccinating, they are profiting from encouraging people not to vaccinate as well. We have done Hep B.  I work with college students, and my husband with substance abusers so we are both exposed to things and have received the vaccine.  Since we knew at some point our child would be at our employment places we wanted him protected.  We also do flu shots.  We have not at this point vaccinated for Varcilla.  We will but his daycare provider had a 4 week old and I didn't want him around her with a fresh varcilla vaccine given what the Ped had said about it at the time.  He will get it before he goes to elementary school though.

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#182 of 219 Old 11-01-2012, 07:37 AM
 
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Welcome dakotacakes!

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#183 of 219 Old 11-01-2012, 02:07 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Another potentially useful resource is http://vaxfax.me/ Which is just a custom version of Google which allows you to search only science or evidence based websites for vaccination information and therefore avoid misinfortmation published elsewhere. What a great idea! 

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Mother of two living in UK. Daughter (2007) born in USA, son (2010) born here. I'm pro natural birth, midwife care, breastfeeding, co-sleeping, baby wearing and a keen advocate of cloth diapering. I'm a full time working research scientist (physical sciences) and I'm pro-vaccine.

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#184 of 219 Old 11-01-2012, 02:24 PM
 
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Love that! I also wonder how it works. Only uses .org/.edu, etc or a curated database?
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#185 of 219 Old 11-01-2012, 02:34 PM
 
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Seems to be a curated database:

 

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vaxfax.me is a project oriented around a google custom search engine.  It searches hundreds of science/evidence based websites for vaccine information.

...

The content of both the include and exclude lists is available on request.


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#186 of 219 Old 11-02-2012, 12:01 PM
 
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I would like to know what you mean by please

 

" they are profiting from encouraging people not to vaccinate as well."

 

thanks for this tread ... like to learn more about why people choose to vax

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#187 of 219 Old 11-02-2012, 12:14 PM
 
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People like dr mercola are selling things. They are for profit. One of the ways they sell things is convincing you big pharma is bad and instead buy $$$$ worth of stuff from them (books, supplements, detox programs, etc etc)
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#188 of 219 Old 11-02-2012, 01:22 PM
 
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I curious why you never want to do a flu shot.

I don't find it very effective and I tend towards not wanting a shot every single year of my life since I have autoimmune stuff going on.  

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Originally Posted by MichelleZB View Post

I don't think I can give suggestions to you because I don't know about your reasoning for why you like some vaccines and not others, or what your thought process has been. Like, is there a reason why you want to protect from chickenpox (but only after a certain age) but not meningitis? Is it a risk/benefit thing or something else?

 

I will say that they do give Hep B to adolescents instead of newborns in Canada, if you want to know an alternate schedule for that.

Thanks, would appreciate any thoughts.  Risk benefit I guess. 

The others I am considering I don't know enough about them yet, those are PC and HIB.  


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#189 of 219 Old 11-02-2012, 03:05 PM
 
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#190 of 219 Old 11-02-2012, 03:06 PM
 
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I've mentioned before on this thread that we didn't do Hep B at birth because we don't do that in Canada. A vaccine at birth seems a bit much to me.

Actually, New Brunswick does vaccinate newborns for Hep B.


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#191 of 219 Old 11-03-2012, 05:00 AM
 
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Another potentially useful resource is http://vaxfax.me/ Which is just a custom version of Google which allows you to search only science or evidence based websites for vaccination information and therefore avoid misinfortmation published elsewhere. What a great idea! 


LOVELOVELOVE this website ! It is so refreshing , to actually be able to read some REAL facts , without having to dig through anti-vax nonsense first !


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#192 of 219 Old 11-03-2012, 12:01 PM
 
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LOVELOVELOVE this website ! It is so refreshing , to actually be able to read some REAL facts , without having to dig through anti-vax nonsense first !

you can do that anyway going right to the CDC or FDA website, or a manufacturer's website in regards to vaccine info

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#193 of 219 Old 11-03-2012, 03:06 PM
 
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No , not really ! I have found that website to be the most unbiased and accurate , when it comes to making and backing up claims !

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#194 of 219 Old 11-03-2012, 05:17 PM
 
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if you follow the references in many of the articles, they lead you to cdc, fda, other gov related info...but it does make it easier for a newbie to find info by the gov supported sites

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No , not really ! I have found that website to be the most unbiased and accurate , when it comes to making and backing up claims !
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#195 of 219 Old 11-03-2012, 06:19 PM
 
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Hi All: As a reminder, please be respectful of the diversity of opinions at MDC and refrain from using terms like "anti-vax nonsense" or "pro-vax nonsense" to describe views that disagree with your views. If your posts use these or similar terms, please edit them accordingly. Thank you!
 


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#196 of 219 Old 11-07-2012, 07:54 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Some celebrity Mamas who "thoughtfully" vaccinate. I thought this was interesting as I wasn't really aware of this before: 

 

 

 

Salma Hayek, is the North American spokesperson for the Pampers "One Pack-One Vaccine" fundraising campaign. 
 
Jennifer Gardner promotes vaccination against influenza for young children for the Faces of Influenza campaign.
 
Amanda Peet,  spokesperson for the Every Child By Two campaign. Her brother in law is a pediatrician who has worked with Paul Offit and arranged for her to talk to him about her vaccination choices after she became concerned about the dangers of vaccination.  
 
(information from this blog where there is a longer list: http://lizditz.typepad.com/i_speak_of_dreams/2008/07/celebrities-who.html - warning don't visit it if you don' want to read disrespectful comments about anti-vaccination choices) 

Mother of two living in UK. Daughter (2007) born in USA, son (2010) born here. I'm pro natural birth, midwife care, breastfeeding, co-sleeping, baby wearing and a keen advocate of cloth diapering. I'm a full time working research scientist (physical sciences) and I'm pro-vaccine.

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#197 of 219 Old 11-07-2012, 11:07 AM
 
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so im looking to you gals for a little help with being a worry wort. my twins are 22m and have been mostly on schedule though usually just a few months behind because they wee premies and are not exposed that much being only children and their shots were spaced out o they only get one or two shots a visit and just go more often. 

 

now the only thing they are behind on is MMR and VAR. i have just been holding off. the VAR i have been putting off, because like the earlier conversation, im just seeing both sides of the issues. though lately i think i have summed it up for myself:

that the problem is that there is a vax in the first place, not if my child now gets it or not.

the issues with loss of natral boosters will affect everyone as the bulk of the population will soon be vaxed for it.  

so at this point i doubt it matters much if we get it or not, so will probably get the shot.

 

 

 

that leaves me with the MMR, and i realize that i'm super nervous about it. not totally sure why, i goes i do think that some folks have something triggered in their systems by the stress of maybe the live virus for the first time? the fevers and seizures are a fact, even according to the cdc, so that bums me out.  but i also know that they will need them at some point soon, because my schools and now our military day care option that we need to use for a few things will surely need it too. i am simply not going to fight that fight for exemptions, you will almost never get one in the military, and frankly I'm not going to lie to try to.

 

so i just need to go do it, and i'm dragging my feet and keep making excuses why it cant be this week (one has a cold, the are teething, we travel in a week and i dont want a problem to come up when we are away) its always something and has ben for months.  what should i do? how do i make myself ok with this??


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#198 of 219 Old 11-07-2012, 11:10 AM
 
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I'll be honest mmr made me nervous too. It's difficult not to react emotionally when there's so much negative stuff out there about it. I spent a lot of time reading stuff like the institute of medicine reports. We ended up getting it on schedule and she was totally fine, not even a fever or anything.

I think you're right about varicella, as long as there's a vaccine and most people are getting it, whether you would've felt it was excess army or not absent of that getting it is the right thing to do, because the odds of contracting it naturally in childhood are so slim.
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#199 of 219 Old 11-07-2012, 11:51 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I'm with you both actually. I also find varicella the least concerning - in fact here in the UK it's not on the regular schedule at all for healthy children, and I have still yet to decide if paying out of pocket to get it privately for my youngest (and booster for older who got it in US) is worth the money. In the US, with the reduced circulation thanks to vaccination I completely understand why people would choose not to get it.

 

And with the MMR vaccination I also found I needed to reassure myself over the "well what if they are right" worry over the scare stories you read. I found the Cochrane Collaboration review on the safety of MMR to most reassuring. And if you want a reassuring anecdote, both mine have been fine following it. I honestly am convinced than any links between MMR and autism spectrum disorders are a coincidence brought about by the similar timing of the vaccination and onset of symptoms.  


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#200 of 219 Old 11-07-2012, 11:59 AM
 
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Adorkable:  MMR and Varicella are safer when given separately than together

 

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/126/1/e1.full.pdf+html?maxtoshow=&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=&fulltext=mmrv+vaccine+seizures&searchid=1&FIRSTINDEX=0&sortspec=relevance&resourcetype=HWCIT


There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

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#201 of 219 Old 11-07-2012, 12:35 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Adorkable~ View Post

so im looking to you gals for a little help with being a worry wort. my twins are 22m and have been mostly on schedule though usually just a few months behind because they wee premies and are not exposed that much being only children and their shots were spaced out o they only get one or two shots a visit and just go more often. 

 

now the only thing they are behind on is MMR and VAR. i have just been holding off. the VAR i have been putting off, because like the earlier conversation, im just seeing both sides of the issues. though lately i think i have summed it up for myself:

that the problem is that there is a vax in the first place, not if my child now gets it or not.

the issues with loss of natral boosters will affect everyone as the bulk of the population will soon be vaxed for it.  

so at this point i doubt it matters much if we get it or not, so will probably get the shot.

 

 

 

that leaves me with the MMR, and i realize that i'm super nervous about it. not totally sure why, i goes i do think that some folks have something triggered in their systems by the stress of maybe the live virus for the first time? the fevers and seizures are a fact, even according to the cdc, so that bums me out.  but i also know that they will need them at some point soon, because my schools and now our military day care option that we need to use for a few things will surely need it too. i am simply not going to fight that fight for exemptions, you will almost never get one in the military, and frankly I'm not going to lie to try to.

 

so i just need to go do it, and i'm dragging my feet and keep making excuses why it cant be this week (one has a cold, the are teething, we travel in a week and i dont want a problem to come up when we are away) its always something and has ben for months.  what should i do? how do i make myself ok with this??

I'd say tap into your mothers intuition which is what it sounds like you are hearing.  Decide if you want to go w/ that or talk yourself into/out of something.  It is hard to follow it as society actively discourages it.  

 

Best wishes,

Sus


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#202 of 219 Old 11-07-2012, 03:03 PM
 
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I don't think that 'following your intuition' is the best course of action in this case. We are emotional creatures who can have our views skewed by inaccurate information. It is true that MMR has side effects in X or Y% of cases (doesn't really matter what X and Y are for purposes of my post) but we naturally react more to vivid anecdotes than we do to cold hard numbers or to stories of "Yeah, my kid got it and they're fine". It's just the way our minds operate. But it doesn't mean it's the best rationale to use in making medical decisions. 

 

I would look at it more logically. I would look at the rate of serious incidents and and decide if you can live with that % of risk vs. how much you want to avoid your kid getting any of those diseases and how much you want to avoid having to try to get an exemption. 

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#203 of 219 Old 11-07-2012, 03:31 PM
 
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I'm happy to join this thread. I've read with interest much of the debate on this website, but kept to the shadows. 

 

Both of my children are vaccinated on schedule. And I give other kids immunizations (with their parent's permission) as a certified vaccine provider (and RN). I am currently doing my PhD in nursing and have avidly and critically looked into the vaccine literature. I am a firm believer that vaccines save lives and are well worth any minute risks they carry.

 

I am also a room-sharing, extended BFing, babywearing, CDing, whole foods, natural playing mama who has not found a home in many more 'mainstream' forums. It seems this is the one issue on which I divurge from the masses here at Mothering.com. Good to see from this thread that I am not alone. 


* evidence based crunch *

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#204 of 219 Old 11-07-2012, 04:41 PM
 
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Welcome to the thread! Glad to have you.

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#205 of 219 Old 11-08-2012, 12:10 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Bearandotter - welcome. You describe exactly why I wanted to start this thread. Very happy to hear it's helping. smile.gif

Mother of two living in UK. Daughter (2007) born in USA, son (2010) born here. I'm pro natural birth, midwife care, breastfeeding, co-sleeping, baby wearing and a keen advocate of cloth diapering. I'm a full time working research scientist (physical sciences) and I'm pro-vaccine.

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#206 of 219 Old 11-08-2012, 10:18 AM
 
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I quite enjoy the Quack Cast podcast by Mark Crisplip. He is an infectious disease doc who umm.... does a thorough scientific critique of studies that boast findings not supported by the evidence (or whose evidence is weak). He addresses many topics, but a good handful are immunization related. I sense it is aimed at health care professionals, but I think many people would find it interesting.

 

warning: he is quite brash and colorful in his critiques. He has no tolerance for what he sees as poor science. As a researcher trained (aka programmed) to be very critical of all research, I appreciate his style, but some might not.

 

Here is the link  https://itunes.apple.com/ca/podcast/quackcast/id156191063

 

 

 

Not sure if I can post this here or not since it is a question. But assuming you have decided to give your 1 and 3 year old kids flu vaccine, would you do flumist (spray) or injection?
 


* evidence based crunch *

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#207 of 219 Old 11-08-2012, 12:03 PM
 
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I'm with you both actually. I also find varicella the least concerning

 In the US, with the reduced circulation thanks to vaccination I completely understand why people would choose not to get it.

 

unfortunately, that my kids are unlikely to be exposed while they are kids is the reason i would want them to get the shot, having them walk around as adults with no defense to it is what worries me.

Quote:
And with the MMR vaccination I also found I needed to reassure myself over the "well what if they are right" worry over the scare stories you read. I found the Cochrane Collaboration review on the safety of MMR to most reassuring. And if you want a reassuring anecdote, both mine have been fine following it. I honestly am convinced than any links between MMR and autism spectrum disorders are a coincidence brought about by the similar timing of the vaccination and onset of symptoms.  

my worry is not particularly about Autism, while i am in some ways, i feel i cant avoid every tiny thing that could possibly be a trigger. i'm more worried about the known risks. rally i guess i dont even know what im spooked about, maybe i am spooked that "they might be right"  ugh.

and no it does not help one drop to hear that "well my kid is fine" for the same reason it doesn't sway me when i hear "my kid got it and has X Y or Z issue now"  that is not the science that i believe in, that is hte emotional that im struggling with

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Adorkable:  MMR and Varicella are safer when given separately than together

oh yes i know that and did some good reading, when i get them the shot, both will be done by themselves probably a month separated from any other shots.

 
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I don't think that 'following your intuition' is the best course of action in this case. We are emotional creatures who can have our views skewed by inaccurate information.

agreed, this is the crux of the issue it seems for so many folks

 

 

Quote:
I would look at it more logically. I would look at the rate of serious incidents and and decide if you can live with that % of risk vs. how much you want to avoid your kid getting any of those diseases and how much you want to avoid having to try to get an exemption. 

yeah i guess it is harder because i feel like i they will get the MMR at some point, but I'm just wishing it could just wait till they are about 4, till after they get past this first year of school colds and get more verbal and can talk to me about if they feel bad.

but since waiting will require way too much hassle and explaining and conflict im just irritated that i can be left alone to do what seems like the best way to do things.  

 

i dont have much issue with Vaccines, but this rush to do then all so fast does bother me.  it is designed to get the vaxes done for folks that may stop seeing doctors after their kids get a bit older. so the lowest common denominator dictates the rules for all of us and it frustrates me


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#208 of 219 Old 11-08-2012, 12:04 PM
 
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Not sure if I can post this here or not since it is a question. But assuming you have decided to give your 1 and 3 year old kids flu vaccine, would you do flumist (spray) or injection?
 

i think the spray is only for over 2 year olds?


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#209 of 219 Old 11-08-2012, 12:47 PM - Thread Starter
 
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i think the spray is only for over 2 year olds?

There's a Cochrane review which suggested no flu vaccination worked any better than a placebo for under 2s and that flumist was the most effective choice for healthy children over 2.

Mother of two living in UK. Daughter (2007) born in USA, son (2010) born here. I'm pro natural birth, midwife care, breastfeeding, co-sleeping, baby wearing and a keen advocate of cloth diapering. I'm a full time working research scientist (physical sciences) and I'm pro-vaccine.

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#210 of 219 Old 11-08-2012, 01:43 PM
 
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Yes, flu mist is only for over 2.

 

I don't think doing vaccines "so young" is just about getting them done while kids are still going to the doctor, although that's certainly part of it especially for vaccines like hep B, I think it's also about protecting children when they're most vulnerable to serious complications.  Most of the diseases we vaccinate against (including hep b) are significantly worse for infants and toddlers than older children.  Leaving children unvaccinated until they're older means you're also leaving them less protected when they are most vulnerable.

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