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-   -   Mothering Mamas Who Thoughtfully Vaccinate (http://www.mothering.com/forum/373-selective-delayed-vaccination/1355124-mothering-mamas-who-thoughtfully-vaccinate.html)

prosciencemum 06-06-2012 12:23 PM

I've really enjoyed the posts coming up on the "case for vaccination" thread of mothers sharing their thoughts on the lack of a link between anti-vaccination beliefs and other parenting styles which Mothering advocate. Many of us AP parents are proudly (and thoughtfully) vaccinating, and I thought it might be nice to have a thread just to share our experiences, since they're getting a bit buried in the debate on that other thread. 

 

For the anti-vax mothers out there I respectfully request you not post here, but start another thread on why you choose not to vaccinate after doing your research (which I won't post to). You could even do it on the entire board you have to share your experiences (which I also try to keep out of, although I did recently post a primary source for the statistic for pertussis deaths in infants). I am asking nicely that you let this thread stay as a list of personal stories of why some of us choose to vaccinate after doing our research.

 

As my signature says I'm a keen Mothering Mama. When I lived in the US I subscribed to the magazine and enjoyed most of the articles. I had both my babies naturally with no pain killers under midwife care (although to be fair that's the norm here in the UK where my second was born) even though both were early labours in which I was recommended to use pitocin to move labour along (after 24 hours for my 34 week preemie first child, and after 60 hours for my just full term 37 weeker). I exclusively breast fed both for 6 months, and extended to around 18 months with both of them self weaning at that point. I used cloth diapers/nappies for both babies, while a working mother which was much easier than it sounds. I also did a lot of baby wearing, and co-sleeping.

 

 That all might seem off topic, but one of the reasons I did all these things is that I believe they are supported by good scientific evidence that demonstrates they are best for babies. They make sense - newborns need their mamas, and we are designed to give birth naturally etc. Cloth nappies are demonstrably better for the environment, and also just cute! ;) 

 

 For me this same reasoning (the science, not the cuteness) backs my choice to vaccinate. I believe the research is clear that vaccinations work and prevent, sometimes rare, but sometimes very dangerous diseases. Some of the ingredients sound scary, but once you look at the quantities and the environmental exposure our kids cope just fine with it's clear to me that it's negligible. Obviously vaccine reactions happen, and sometimes are nasty - but I believe the statistics that show they are very rare. I also think it's a responsible thing to do to help herd immunity in my community, and try to wipe out serious diseases. I believe we should continue (and that we are as a community with talented scientists continuing) to research possible dangers/rare side effects of vaccine, but I have yet to see a convincing study of any serious common side effect. 

 

Anyway at the risk of going on too much that's my opinion on the matter. I'd love to hear from other AP vaccinating mothers about why they choose to vaccinate, or just hear from you that you're there too. I have had periods of avoiding Mothering (forums, and online articles) over some of what I see as an anti-vaccination stance, so I'd also like Mothering to know we're here, and we're thoughtfully vaccinating. :) 


purslaine 06-06-2012 01:29 PM

nm

 

fwiw, the slew of "nm" on this page are because I thought AdinaL said non-vaxxers should edit out their comments, when really she said we should remove ourselves.   I need to remember: coffee increases reading comprehensions!


Imakcerka 06-06-2012 04:28 PM

It's in vaccinations...  How is that so bad? 


TCMoulton 06-06-2012 04:44 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Imakcerka View Post

It's in vaccinations...  How is that so bad? 

I agree. This seems like a fine place for this thread - no need to force the vaccinating moms to hide on the selective/delayed board.

GoGoGirl 06-06-2012 05:03 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by TCMoulton View Post


I agree. This seems like a fine place for this thread - no need to force the vaccinating moms to hide on the selective/delayed board.


Right, what about moms who vax on schedule?  Is Kathy saying she doesn't want them to be able to post in the vaccination forums at all?


nukuspot 06-06-2012 05:12 PM

I also think there should be a "vaccinating on schedule" section on MDC.  There is a S/D and an "I'm not vaccinating" (which I always hate the title) so why not a pro-vaccine section for people who come on here to try to help make this difficult decision?  And I say this as a non-vaxxer.  I really think it's only fair to have a place for all sides to be represented, not just one thread that will be lost and buried in a month.

 

Sorry to post on your thread since you specifically asked non-vaxxers to stay off but in case a mod reads it I wanted to show my support for the idea.


erigeron 06-06-2012 05:21 PM

I too vaccinate for basically the same reasons you listed, prosciencemum. I am a healthcare professional myself and aware of the science behind vaccines.


purslaine 06-06-2012 07:06 PM

nm


purslaine 06-06-2012 07:11 PM

nm

Rrrrrachel 06-06-2012 07:26 PM

It's one thread,

I love you post, mum, I feel the same way. I was nervous about vaccinating at first, I grew up in a non vaccinating family, but my husband insisted. I read the vaccine book, I talked to the doctor, I did a lot of research . . . And the more research I did the better I felt about the decision to vaccinate.

KathrynH 06-06-2012 07:35 PM

We have vaccinated our 20 month old DS on schedule. Before I had done any research, I assumed that we would likely do selective/delayed vaccinations. However, once I looked at the issues more deeply, I realized vaccinating on-schedule made more sense to me. Initially I was worried about exposure to various ingredients and adverse side effects.

 

In the end it just became a numbers game. What is the probability of contracting one of the diseases in question? How serious are the risks of contracting one of these diseases? What is the probability of having a serious reaction to the vaccine? Is the exposure to nasty chemicals significantly more than what we are exposed to on a normal basis? How well does the body deal with these chemicals at the levels in question? I felt like I was just rolling the dice either way, but it did seem the numbers were more in my favor if I vaccinated. 

 

At this point, I'm very glad we vaccinated on schedule. My son did not attend daycare until just before his one year birthday. However, he started getting sick much earlier. He had numerous colds and stomach bugs. By 14 months we were getting tubes (7 ear infections in 8 months).  I am a school teacher, so it might have been due to things I brought home, but I washed my hands religiously and often changed shirts before I held him in the afternoons. He has been sick an alarming number of times in his life. There was a point when we realized he was only healthy 1 or 2 days each month. His weight fell to the 1st percentile and we worked hard to get more weight back on without adding foods that are processed or have added sugars (meaning no Pediasure, Carnation, etc.).  Although he seems to be doing better now, I wonder if he would have caught any more serious illnesses without the vaccinations. 

 

And for you lactivists out there - yes he is breastfeed. He didn't start solids until 6 1/2 moths and we are still nursing at 20 months with no end in sight. 

 

I know vaccinating on schedule is not the preferred path for everyone, but it was an informed choice that we did not take lightly.


TCMoulton 06-06-2012 07:40 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post

So - can non-vaaxers post a "proud to be non-vaxxing"  thread on the vaxxing forum (not  the "I am not vaxxing" subforum) and ask vaxxers to stay off it? 

I am not trying to start an argumement, but I lack clarity about what should be posted where.  

Honestly, though, it is not a giant deal - if a mod thinks it is ok here, cool.

Non-vaxers shave an entire forums dedicated to their threads so there is no need for them to go elsewhere and post their reasons for why they are who they are. Those moms who vax on schedule don't fit in anywhere perfectly so the general forum seems the most appropriate place for them to hang out.
Honestly, if you don't care & aren't trying to start an argument why bother posting your disagreements, I have found the mods usually do a pretty good job of directing threads to where they belong when they seem to have strayed.

stik 06-07-2012 09:10 AM

ITA with those who have pointed out that those who are proud to be non-vaxxing have an entire forum in which to discuss it, which I, like many other vaccinating posters, generally stay out of.  The rules of that forum prevent me from expressing my POV in most circumstances, so there's no point in me making an effort to participate there.

 

I delayed vaccination for my older dd, who had limited time in group settings until she was 3.  That was before Wakefield was discredited.  My family has no risk factors that suggest vaccination might cause problems and we have plenty of exposure to group settings in multiple communities that let us bring illnesses home.  My younger dd has asthma, and though she's generally extremely healthy, a number of VPDs could be very dangerous for her.  I couldn't live with myself if she got something and I hadn't done everything I could to prevent it.  We've been vaxed on time and completely including flu since I started teaching full time.  And we've dodged a few flu outbreaks. 


Taximom5 06-07-2012 09:21 AM

I think it needs to be pointed out that those who no longer vax aren't necessarily "proud of it."

Mothers like me started out vaxxing (also without pride) because we believed it was the best thing for our children, thanks to the relentless and expensive propaganda from the companies that profit from vaccines.

 

We stopped vaxxing only after severe adverse effects made it obvious that vaccines harmed our children, and harmed us as well. Many of us were advised by our children's doctors that our children should no longer be vaccinated.

 

Many parents choose to delay or forego vaccination because they, too, have seen what happened to our children, and like us, they've researched the heck out of vaccines in order to learn as much as possible. I use the word research to mean looking at studies, learning about the financial conflicts surrounding those who put out information, and weighing the data.  I don't include Hollywood figures like Jenny McCarthy and Amanda Peet as "research."

 

There are many emotions surrounding my decision, including regret and anger.

 

But pride isn't one of them.

 

And I find it offensive that other mothers--on either side-- look at this decision as something that can be linked to "pride."


Rrrrrachel 06-07-2012 09:23 AM

well, this thread has officially jumped the shark.  Nice try, mum.  


poppylove 06-07-2012 09:28 AM

Proudly vaccinate? What a gross way of putting one type of choice against another. Bravo OP for creating a greater divide amongst us. 


Taximom5 06-07-2012 09:39 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by poppylove View Post

Proudly vaccinate? What a gross way of putting one type of choice against another. Bravo OP for creating a greater divide amongst us. 

I had the impression that that was the actual intent of the original post.


nukuspot 06-07-2012 09:43 AM

I also want to say I don't vax but I would never say I'm proud of the decision. I honestly hate the fact that I can't follow health care recommendations, but I honestly feel that at this time the risks of vaccines outweigh the benefits due to safety concerns I have. So I guess I could say I'm a non vaxxer and resigned to the decision. For sure, proud would not be a word I would use. Not attacking the OP here, just wanted to address Stik so she understands that not all non vaxxers are "proud of it."

MrsGregory 06-07-2012 09:45 AM

I don't think it's too late for the thread!  Let's have hope!

 

I wouldn't say I'm a proud "vaxxer", but I am confident in my decision to have my child vaccinated on schedule. 

Funny - our primary care provider is a family doctor, but not as "crunchy" as other family doctors.  We had the "CIO" and sleeping arrangement discussion (during which I was outed as "one of those Moms", and there was a visible sigh of relief when I offered no resistance to the vaccine schedule.  I think it goes to show how very hand-in-hand certain philosophies and parenting styles are assumed  to go, and more discussion, within and outside the "crunchy" community, can only benefit everyone.

 

blowkiss.gif
 


Imakcerka 06-07-2012 09:46 AM

Very interesting.  I knew from the beginning that this thread would not go as the OP planned.  But I think we all knew that. 


AbbyGrant 06-07-2012 11:09 AM

I thought the "proudly" thing had more to do with not being ashamed on this board given the history and tone here and less to do with being like super proud of vaccinating and nothing to do with trying to create a divide. There were several people on the case for vaccination thread who said they felt like they didn't fit in on MDC because of this one issue. Given how things have been here, particularly in the past, I think that's understandable.  There are a lot of vaccinating mothers here though and always have been. 


stik 06-07-2012 11:43 AM

I work hard to make the right choices for my family and my children.  I am proud of that.  For my family, that includes vaccination.  I respect that some families have circumstances and conditions that make vaccination the wrong decision for them.  And they have a whole forum in which to discuss those reasons and that decision, whether they are proud of it or not.  If it offends you that other families are happy to have made a decision that differs from yours, I can't fix that for you.  I certainly can't fix it by refusing to discuss my decision or why I am happy with it.  I have never claimed that vaccination is the right decision for every family.  It is the right decision for mine. 

 

Within the context of MDC in re. vaccination, "proud" has often meant "willing to admit that it is something I have chosen to do."  There is a ton of hostility towards families who vax on this board (and I know, people who don't vax feel persecuted too - I've read about it on the dedicated forum where people aren't allowed to argue in favor of vaccinating) and I have seen that hostility affect people's posting about their decisions.  I think it's important for crunchy moms who vaccinate to reach out to other crunchy moms who are considering the decision and let them know that if they choose vaccination they won't be alone or losing their street cred or any of the other things we fear when we make decisions on issues that people are ranting and raving about.


t2009 06-07-2012 12:11 PM

I've seen other posts in which the OP requests that those with differing views not post... it never works & usually sparks ill will & controversy (I'm thinking of a SAHM/WOHM debate from a few months back).

 

But I will say that I usually stay out of the vax discussions (including the more recent "case for vax'ing" thread) because as a vax'ing mama, I'm a bit fearful of backlash here on MDC. ... So, a thread with a positive spin on choosing to vax is actually a welcome thing for me.

 

Like other mamas, I wouldn't say that I am "proud" to vax. And, in fact, I am not necessarily "confident" or "sure" in my family's decision to vax our DS. I do think that there are valid concerns about vax'ing, but we've made the best decision we could and are grateful that DS has not experienced any serious negative side effects that we know of.

 

I will say that we could not have come to our decision to vax (albeit, slightly off-schedule) without two wonderful pediatricians who did not belittle our concerns and were willing to have serious and deep (not to mention time-consuming) discussions about vax'ing. I wish everyone were so lucky to find such respectful pediatricians, because I really do think it makes a difference in people's decision re. vax'ing. (The first pediatrician we met before my son was born gave us an ultimatum: vax or you're out. Well, we chose the "you're out" option & the experience temporarily made me more staunchly anti-vax...).

 

I also have loved (& continue to return to) the Dr. Sears book on vax. I like to have the ingredients laid out for me & to know the side effects of each ingredient. It has empowered me in a way that a lot of the other information out there has not.


prosciencemum 06-07-2012 12:28 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrsGregory View Post

I don't think it's too late for the thread!  Let's have hope!

 

I wouldn't say I'm a proud "vaxxer", but I am confident in my decision to have my child vaccinated on schedule. 

Funny - our primary care provider is a family doctor, but not as "crunchy" as other family doctors.  We had the "CIO" and sleeping arrangement discussion (during which I was outed as "one of those Moms", and there was a visible sigh of relief when I offered no resistance to the vaccine schedule.  I think it goes to show how very hand-in-hand certain philosophies and parenting styles are assumed  to go, and more discussion, within and outside the "crunchy" community, can only benefit everyone.

 

blowkiss.gif
 

That's actually all I meant. I meant that it's not a choice I made without thinking, and it's something I feel confident is right both for my familly and the wider community we live in. Sorry if "proud" was the wrong word to express that with. 

 

I did not mean to be divisive, just to hear about other AP mammas pro-vax choices. :) 


SweetSilver 06-07-2012 01:48 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by prosciencemum View Post

That's actually all I meant. I meant that it's not a choice I made without thinking, and it's something I feel confident is right both for my familly and the wider community we live in. Sorry if "proud" was the wrong word to express that with. 

 

I did not mean to be divisive, just to hear about other AP mammas pro-vax choices. :) 

Just wanted to post to say I knew what you meant.  Perhaps not the best choice of words?  But I wasn't offended by it.

 

Nothing else.

 

Except..... You could still change the title to avoid any more thread derailments.  Just a suggestion.  I'll wrap up my own OT post now.....


cynthia mosher 06-08-2012 03:20 AM

I agree. A change to Mothering Mamas Who Thoughtfully Vaccinate would be more conducive to a thread that Mothering is inclined to host. I'll make the change. :)


Rrrrrachel 06-08-2012 04:31 AM

Glad you don't moderate ideas!

Super~Single~Mama 06-08-2012 04:58 AM

Well, I'll finally chime in I guess.

 

I researched vaccinations when I was pregnant (and admittedly have not kept up with my research much since then), because of the very loud anti-vax community here on MDC. My ex was completely against the idea of *not* vaccinating, but I did my reading and research anyway. After choosing a pediatrician, and talking to them about it, and finding out what schedule he used (he was against the HepB* at birth - said it messed up the entire schedule somehow), we did vaccinate on the schedule that my ds's pediatrician used.

 

My ds did not have any red flags for vax reactions (was a good size at birth, gained rapidly, very healthy despite being a winter baby when colds are all over the place, no health issues whatsoever as an infant), and I was comfortable with our decision. He has had no adverse reactions, and as a baby nursed through his vaccines several times which comforted him. He's still very healthy, despite a (mild) dust mite allergy that the poor kid inherited from me, and a few illnesses here and there.

 

He's also a very bright little boy, who already knows the sounds that most letters make and is starting to figure out how to spell different words. He's tons of fun, but also very stubborn like me, and I'm very proud to be his mom. Despite the fact that the thread title was changed, I'm pretty proud of the parenting decisions I've made so far (all of them), as they have been the right decisions for our little family.

 

*My ds did not receive the HepB at birth mostly because I delivered at a free standing birthing center that did not administer the vaccine. I just thought it was interesting that my ds's ped did not like the HepB at birth - then again he was about 70 years old so may not have kept up with the reasons why it is now given at birth.


ollyoxenfree 06-08-2012 06:12 AM

We vaccinated both of our dc according to schedule. Mostly. There was  a year when we were traveling and we slipped on getting the boosters, but that was inadvertent and not an intentional delay. 

 

I heard anti-vaccination arguments and wasn't persuaded. I researched the issue and made the decision based on that research. Today, I do not question that decision. 

 

Disclosures:

-Formerly, I was a health care professional in a large, tertiary-care teaching hospital on a university campus. I had nothing to do with pharmaceuticals. They weren't part of my practice. 

-DH's sister died of a vaccine-preventable death when she was a toddler. His other sister told us it is the only time she ever saw their father cry. That baby sister is buried in a cemetery with a lot of older graves dating back into the late 1800's and early 1900's. Many of the headstones are for very young children. When visiting her grave, I am always struck by the tragedy of those deaths, many of which would likely be preventable today.  

-We have friends whose child had a terrible reaction to a vaccine-preventable disease (chicken pox). For years after, they dealt with the consequences. It happened when we had already started the vaccination schedule for our children. So it didn't factor into our original decision, but it did reinforce it to an extent as we went forward. 

 

I don't often read the vaccination threads. It's just not an issue that takes up space in my life. I acknowledge that other parents can make a different decision but I'm not really interested in arguing about it. I noticed there was a lot of activity in the subforum recently, so I took a look. I've been a little fascinated by the emotional level of the discussion. I didn't think this thread would survive, so I didn't bother to respond earlier. Since it has, I thought I should contribute. 

 

ETA: Both dc are healthy, active, emotionally stable, sociable, intelligent (assessed as gifted on IQ testing), artistically talented (attended admission-by-audition-only performing arts high school) and generally thriving into young adulthood. I can't say all that without sounding like I'm bragging, but I wanted to state that there is no evidence of vaccine-related adverse effects TO THEM. 

 

ETAA: Lol, okay, that grammar sucks - TO THEM? IN THEM? They demonstrate no evidence of suffering vaccine-related adverse effects. Better? Clear? 


Rrrrrachel 06-08-2012 06:26 AM

Thank you for taking the time to share your perspective!



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