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#151 of 157 Old 10-12-2012, 07:43 AM
 
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When our religion requires us to uphold life, then whether or not vaccines are safe most certainly is a religious issue for us. Everything about how we conduct our lives, including how we choose to prevent and treat illness is informed by our religion.


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#152 of 157 Old 10-12-2012, 07:45 AM
 
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I don't mind his refusal to talk about religious exemptions. I don't really think it is his place.  Religion is so personal, yk?

 

It was his refusal to talk about vaccine side effects that flipped the switch for me.  There can be no discussion if you refuse to look at or discuss both sides of the issue.

 

I don't mind giving him another chance though, if he wants to come back.  I think he has a better sense of what will and will not fly here.   shrug.gif  He was/is new - so cutting him a bit of slack is in order.  He did answer the question on which vaccines he thought were the most important and I did appreciate hearing his thought process.

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There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

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#153 of 157 Old 10-12-2012, 09:01 AM
 
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Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post

I don't mind his refusal to talk about religious exemptions. I don't really think it is his place.  Religion is so personal, yk?

 

It was his refusal to talk about vaccine side effects that flipped the switch for me.  There can be no discussion if you refuse to look at or discuss both sides of the issue.

 

I don't mind giving him another chance though, if he wants to come back.  i think he has a better sense of what will and will not fly here.   shrug.gif  He was/is new - so cutting him a bit of slack is in order.  He did answer the question on which vaccines he thought were the most important and I did appreciate hearing his thought process.

 I don't mind his refusal to talk about religious exemptions either. What I have a problem with (asides from the refusal to discuss safety concerns) is for him to get into the discussion of religious exemptions in the first place by putting himself in a position to judge other peoples beliefs as valid or not and then when called on it to say I refuse to discuss it.....whatever thats not cool.

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If the people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." Thomas Jefferson.

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#154 of 157 Old 10-12-2012, 09:33 AM
 
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 is for him to get into the discussion of religious exemptions in the first place by putting himself in a position to judge other peoples beliefs as valid or not and then when called on it to say I refuse to discuss it.....whatever thats not cool.

Agreed.

 

I guess I am just feeling benevolent today….I have been on the other side when I held a different point of view than everyone else and felt dogpiled.  It is not fun.  I am not saying he did not say some interesting things - I just think we can make space for him to return if he likes.  


There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

Book and herb loving mama to 1 preteen and 2 teens (when did that happen?).  We travel, go to school, homeschool, live rurally, eat our veggies, spend too much time...

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#155 of 157 Old 10-12-2012, 08:55 PM
 
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It's absurd to me that people are still arguing about what is/isnt okay for him to post and he hasnt even posted in 10 days.


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Adaline love.gif (3/20/10), and Charlie brokenheart.gif (1/26/12- 4/10/12) and our identical  rainbow1284.gif  twins Callie and Wendy (01/04/13)

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#156 of 157 Old 10-17-2012, 08:04 AM
 
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Your utter lack of a sense of scale is astounding.  Nothing is 100% safe.  This includes vaccines and cars and planes and crossing the street and eating lettuce and drinking water.  But we all fly and drive and walk and drink water.  Life does not guarantee a soft and fuzzy outcome, because life is inherently risky.  What allows humanity to move forward is to minimize risk with strategies that increase everyone's odds of living longer and healthier.  This is what vaccines do: decrease everyone's risk:benefit ratio.  There is no other math for those in public health.

Your strategy is rather to take case reports and try to generalize them to an entire industry.

Your strategy is to make a few misguided people into a massive conspiracy.

Your strategy is to equate a small percentage of side effects with the risk of massive epidemics. 

 

If we all stopped using measles (or pertussis, or H. flu, or pneumococcal) vaccine today, you would lose family and friends (that is, they would be dead).  And every person who reads your nonsense and defers an important vaccine and whose child gets a preventable illness is being harmed by your influence.

Again, feel free to not not vaccinate your kids - if we all did the same we'd be back to over 2 million deaths per year from measles.

Then there's HiB meningitis. 

Then there's polio (oh, but you AREN'T moving to Pakistan or Afghanistan with your unvaxed kids, are you?).

And did you actually say that our infant death rate is the highest in the world? 

I always find it amazing to see a parent lay out all this information with studies and articles to back everything up and then a medical professional comes along trying to rebuttal but instead of using science they are emotional charged. Isn't it supposed to be the other way around? You are starting to get defensive and possibly flustered with the people here who have alot of knowledge in regards to vaccines. It's beginning to show that you need to become updated on current information since you aren't able to answer some of these parent's question nor are you aware that the US ranks 42nd? I believe in regards to health and infant mortality. I reply because I wanted to address a few of your remarks. Firstly a majority of parents who don't vaccinate, thoroughly weigh the risk/benefit ratio before deciding. Yes with every vaccine there is risk, including that of death. You can argue the chances of that as being rare or not but recently in my studies I discovered what corresponds to a 'rare' ranking. Even if the chances are rare-which is questionable- the range to be categorized as rare -at least here- is 1/10,000-1/100-000. As well, not vaccinated does not necessarily mean you will get a disease and possibly pass it on to others. Current scientific information shows that you do not need antibodies to be safe from disease. Then there's data from 1910's indicating that smallpox vaccination actually caused an increase in smallpox and caused more frequent death in young children than the 'wild' disease. Look at the first trials of polio, the oral polio vaccine cause paralysis and polio worse than the wild version. As well as the evidence that polio vaccine was what started AIDS in humans. Lastly if we completely halted the vaccination program, there is absolutely no evidence to even suggest that the theory you propose of 'millions dying from diseases like measles etc' would even happen. Yes disease still occurs in other countries, but like previously stated by another on here, we now know things like sanitation plays an important role, vitamin deficiencies are being linked to many disease, illness and even sids. Perhaps you should consider stepping back from your medical position and look into what these people are saying instead of becoming defensive and/or annoyed at their non-compliance. Perhaps injecting our children with diseases, heavy metals, formaldehyde(carcinogen) and DNA from aborted babies and other animals is not the way to fight disease, maybe it all comes down to our bodies being healthy, sanitation and good vitamin levels. 

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#157 of 157 Old 10-18-2012, 12:07 AM
 
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WOW! I'm so glad I have a pedi who is respectful of our vaccination decisions. While we aren't currently a vaccinating family I feel as if I could easily have a calm, rational, educated discussion with our doctor. To the OP, doctor, it's the feeling of respect and being listened to that keeps me open to my pedi's pro-vax views. Never in a million years would she dream of talking to me as you've typed to the PP's.

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Cindy, joyful SAH mama to rainbow1284.gif William & Katherinefly-by-nursing2.gif Forever missing Amelia 7-12-09 angel3.gif  signcirc1.gifsaynovax.giflactivist.gif Ask me about my natural cesarean! 

 

 

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