Hep b - Page 2 - Mothering Forums

Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
#31 of 55 Old 01-09-2013, 06:31 AM - Thread Starter
 
Rrrrrachel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,155
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post

Well, to answer the OP:

I assume we are talking about if giving an infant vaccine has validity as a public health move.

It is pretty easy on the face of it: figure out if the serious newborn reaction rate is higher than the risk of the newborn contracting the disease.  

Perhaps one could compare the history of the disease in newborns in 2 places that are similar in makeup, but one has newborn hep b and one does not. Japonica mentioned New Brunswick gave newborn hepB.  One could compare that to another place that does not  - like PEI or Nova Scotia.  It might give us an idea of how much infant hep b.  did or did not contribute to the epidemiology of the disease.

On this thread alone, we have conflicting figures from some very mainstream sources on hep B. prevalence before vaccines.  Chop said the prevalence was 18 000 a year in children, while CDC is saying 360.  It is not reassuring.

Other general ideas:

- does hep. B at birth affect breastfeeding outcomes?  Breastfeeding is very important in terms of health.  
-do the fevers from Hep. B go sufficiently high that invasive procedures are done? High fevers in newborns are treated aggressively, and a doctor would not automatically assume a vax caused the high fever.    My nephew had a spinal tap over a high fever in infancy to rule out meningitis.  
-should national rates be the defining factor in Hep b. vax guidelines?  How about state guidelines or guidelines based on other demographics?

This is not actually what I'm asking. I'm asking what people who OTHERWISE CHOOSE TO VACCINATE think of hepatitis b vaccine. Particularly vaccinating at birth vs waiting two months or longer.
Rrrrrachel is offline  
#32 of 55 Old 01-09-2013, 06:33 AM - Thread Starter
 
Rrrrrachel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,155
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
CDC did NOT say it was 360, someone did some math based on some information and extrapolated that. The real rate of hep b is generally considered much higher, as much as ten times as high, as the reported rate because of how long it takes people to show symptoms. This is widely considered to be the case, you can find it in a wide variety of places.

Now, again, please show this forum the same respect you would like people to show the I'm not vaccinating forum.
Rrrrrachel is offline  
#33 of 55 Old 01-09-2013, 08:50 AM
 
Turquesa's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,050
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)
The CDC said 1 in 100,000 children. At 36 million per census figures, how many children is that? It's not extrapolation, Rrrrrachel. It's simple math.

Extrapolation is what happens when a secondary-source, uncited website claims 18,000 children a year when the CDC itself (cited in my post above) said 26,000 reported cases TOTAL when the disease peaked. Are you seriously going to tell me that 70% of all of these cases were babies and children???

In God we trust; all others must show data. selectivevax.gifsurf.gifteapot2.GIFintactivist.gif
Turquesa is offline  
#34 of 55 Old 01-09-2013, 09:16 AM
 
pek64's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 2,502
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel View Post

This is the quote from the chop website

"Before the hepatitis B vaccine, every year in the United States about 18,000 children were infected with hepatitis B virus by the time they were 10 years old. This statistic is especially important because people are much more likely to develop liver cancer or cirrhosis if they are infected early in life, rather than later in life (most people are infected with hepatitis B virus when they are adolescents and young adults)."

It's a little awkwardly worded. I'm going to look around a little more and make sure it's saying what I think it is.


I know I'm late to see this, so I apologize if this point was already made.

Half of the 18,000, that's 9,000, got hep b from their mothers at birth. Screening should make it so that mandatory vaccination right after birth is unnecessary. Vaccination of those testing positive is another issue.

So, for those whose mothers test negative, that leaves only 9,000 who get infected before age 10.
pek64 is offline  
#35 of 55 Old 01-09-2013, 09:30 AM - Thread Starter
 
Rrrrrachel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,155
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turquesa View Post

The CDC said 1 in 100,000 children. At 36 million per census figures, how many children is that? It's not extrapolation, Rrrrrachel. It's simple math.

Extrapolation is what happens when a secondary-source, uncited website claims 18,000 children a year when the CDC itself (cited in my post above) said 26,000 reported cases TOTAL when the disease peaked. Are you seriously going to tell me that 70% of all of these cases were babies and children???

As I already explained, twice, there is a big difference in reported cases and actual cases for hep b.
Rrrrrachel is offline  
#36 of 55 Old 01-09-2013, 09:36 AM
 
Turquesa's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,050
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)
You don't know that they're "actual" unless they were reported. Your only alternative is conjecture and estimates.

In God we trust; all others must show data. selectivevax.gifsurf.gifteapot2.GIFintactivist.gif
Turquesa is offline  
#37 of 55 Old 01-09-2013, 10:07 AM - Thread Starter
 
Rrrrrachel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,155
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
It's not "mine," and studying things like this does involve some statistical models and projections, but it's a lot more than guessing.

It's fact that hep b is much more common than reported. That's why it's the silent epidemic. That isn't conjecture on my part or anyone else's. you can easily confirm this for yourself.

This is now a pointless debate and exactly what I was trying to avoid. Thanks.
Rrrrrachel is offline  
#38 of 55 Old 01-09-2013, 10:23 AM
 
Taximom5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,110
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel View Post

I do think there are good reasons to vaccinate infants for hep b. I'm not a big fan of vaccinating at birth, though, when there's a pretty good idea about moms hep b status. 2 months seems soon enough. On the other hand, there is a significant number of women out there who have hep b and don't know it. What do y'all think? I guess I'm asking more as a public policy thing than what would you do for your kid thing.

Since it's standard practice to screen pregnant mothers for Hep B, this shouldn't even be an issue.  Even if you show up pregnant in the ER, with no prior prenatal care, they will run a screen.  When I had a miscarriage, and was sent to the ER, even with a record of prenatal care (which included a hep B test) at that same hospital,  they did ANOTHER hep B test, and told me it was standard.

Taximom5 is offline  
#39 of 55 Old 01-09-2013, 10:54 AM
 
HappyHappyMommy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 5,920
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 32 Post(s)

Hi All,

 

As a reminder, the forum guidelines for this forum state "This is a support-only forum for those who are vaccinating selectively, on a delayed schedule or fully vaccinating on schedule. Members who aren't vaccinating should not post here to debate or argue accuracy or opinion of things posted. " Please edit all posts that are debating or arguing the accuracy or opinion of things posted. Please focus your posts to be of support.

 

In addition, if you have a concern about a post, please do not post to the thread about it. Rather, please flag the post or a PM a mod or an admin. Please edit any posts that discuss concerns whether another post is appropriate for this forum.

 

Thank you!
HHM


hh2.gif Head over to the Holiday Helper forum and be a part of this wonderful Mothering tradition! joy.gif

Wondering about Mothering in general? Check out Mothering's User Agreement! smile.gif

HappyHappyMommy is offline  
#40 of 55 Old 01-09-2013, 02:01 PM - Thread Starter
 
Rrrrrachel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,155
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
I was trying to get the perspective of people who are generally in favor of at least some vaccines. Which is why I put it here.
Rrrrrachel is offline  
#41 of 55 Old 01-09-2013, 02:13 PM
 
prosciencemum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,711
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 63 Post(s)
In the uk hep b is only given to newborns whose mothers test positive. I'm posting this as a point of information that public health decisions can differ between countries - part of what initially got me interested in the question of vaccination choices. I have not personally looked into the evidence around hep b incidence and rates of serious reactions to the vaccine.

Edit to remove meta discussion.

Mother of two living in UK. Daughter (2007) born in USA, son (2010) born here. I'm pro natural birth, midwife care, breastfeeding, co-sleeping, baby wearing and a keen advocate of cloth diapering. I'm a full time working research scientist (physical sciences) and I'm pro-vaccine.

prosciencemum is offline  
#42 of 55 Old 01-09-2013, 04:57 PM
 
chickabiddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,473
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)

:(


Carseat-checking (CPST) and WAH mama to a twelve-year-old girl.
chickabiddy is online now  
#43 of 55 Old 01-09-2013, 05:02 PM
 
chickabiddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,473
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel View Post

I do think there are good reasons to vaccinate infants for hep b. I'm not a big fan of vaccinating at birth, though, when there's a pretty good idea about moms hep b status. 2 months seems soon enough. On the other hand, there is a significant number of women out there who have hep b and don't know it. What do y'all think? I guess I'm asking more as a public policy thing than what would you do for your kid thing.

 

To answer the OP, I think vaxing at birth is not necessary *if* mother's status is known.


Carseat-checking (CPST) and WAH mama to a twelve-year-old girl.
chickabiddy is online now  
#44 of 55 Old 01-09-2013, 07:18 PM
 
katelove's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 3,788
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Public health concerns itself with populations rather than individuals so, from a purely public health standpoint it makes sense to vaccinate at birth IMO. The majority of babies are born in hospital so health care has easy access to them. They haven't been exposed to the virus (unless mum is positive and, in Australia, babes of positive mums are offered immunoglobulin as well as the vaccine). They're getting the vaccine before they can engage in any risky behaviour. And it doesn't rely on the parents taking them back to a clinic at some future date.

From a public health standpoint this is an almost perfect scenario.

Not really on topic but, in Australia, the Hep B-only paed vaccine is only available in hospitals. Clinics and doctors surgeries only have it as part of Infanrix Hexa - DTPa, Hep B, Polio and HIb. So your options are Hep B only at birth or Infanrix Hexa later or Hep B-only as a teenager.

Mother of two spectacular girls, born mid-2010 and late 2012  mdcblog5.gif

katelove is online now  
#45 of 55 Old 01-09-2013, 08:08 PM
 
HappyHappyMommy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 5,920
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 32 Post(s)

Hi Everyone,

 

There are posts in this thread that make critical generalizations about others. As a reminder, the forum guidelines state "While no one should be labeled as irresponsible or uninformed for deciding to vaccinate, neither should parents here who have chosen to not vaccinate be accused of irresponsibility, not caring for their child, or presenting a threat to others. Please respect each other and refrain from statements that are condescending, hurtful, judgmental, and belittling." Please edit your posts if they make condescending, hurtful, judgmental, or belittling comments.

 

In addition, there are several posts discussing concerns about other posts in this thread. Concerns about posts or threads should not be raised in a thread. The proper avenue for addressing concerns about other posts is via reporting (flagging) a post or PMing a moderator or administrator. Please edit your posts if they contain concerns about other posts in this thread or what should and should not be posted here. If you have concerns about another post in the thread, please flag the post or PM me.

 

Thank you!

HHM


hh2.gif Head over to the Holiday Helper forum and be a part of this wonderful Mothering tradition! joy.gif

Wondering about Mothering in general? Check out Mothering's User Agreement! smile.gif

HappyHappyMommy is offline  
#46 of 55 Old 01-10-2013, 08:54 AM
 
IdentityCrisisMama's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 10,638
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 90 Post(s)

It's always been difficult for me to separate the public policy issue from the personal. Though, I did always think it odd that so many women say that they know their partner is faithful. I think early on with the Heb B issue I said to my DH that I knew I did not catch Hep B from anyone - and he should be pretty darn sure too. ;-)  


Mama to DD September 2001 and DD April 2011 *Winner for most typos* eat.gif
IdentityCrisisMama is offline  
#47 of 55 Old 01-10-2013, 09:19 AM - Thread Starter
 
Rrrrrachel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,155
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Yeah I declined eye goop and we had that conversation. Something like "I tested negative for vd back in __ month, no reason to think I've contracted one since then, RIGHT?" And I explained how important it was to be sure in order to decline the eye stuff.
Rrrrrachel is offline  
#48 of 55 Old 01-10-2013, 09:35 AM
 
chickabiddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,473
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Quote:
In addition, there are several posts discussing concerns about other posts in this thread. Concerns about posts or threads should not be raised in a thread.

 

I've edited as requested.  Can we please have a discussion in the discussion/debate forum about what "support only" means?  If the support-only forums are actually open to all points of view as soon as a question mark is typed, as Taximom suggested, I'd like to be aware of that because there have been some topics of potential interest in the other support forum.


Carseat-checking (CPST) and WAH mama to a twelve-year-old girl.
chickabiddy is online now  
#49 of 55 Old 01-10-2013, 10:43 AM
 
HappyHappyMommy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 5,920
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 32 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by chickabiddy View Post

Quote:
In addition, there are several posts discussing concerns about other posts in this thread. Concerns about posts or threads should not be raised in a thread.

 

I've edited as requested.  Can we please have a discussion in the discussion/debate forum about what "support only" means?  If the support-only forums are actually open to all points of view as soon as a question mark is typed, as Taximom suggested, I'd like to be aware of that because there have been some topics of potential interest in the other support forum.

 

Please raise questions or general concerns about forum guidelines (e.g. "what does support only mean?") in the Technical Issues and Forum Information forum or PM a moderator or administrator.


hh2.gif Head over to the Holiday Helper forum and be a part of this wonderful Mothering tradition! joy.gif

Wondering about Mothering in general? Check out Mothering's User Agreement! smile.gif

HappyHappyMommy is offline  
#50 of 55 Old 01-11-2013, 01:40 PM
 
Turquesa's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,050
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)
I'm still looking for the original, primary source of that 18,000 number. How was this data gathered, and on what basis does this estimate come?

In God we trust; all others must show data. selectivevax.gifsurf.gifteapot2.GIFintactivist.gif
Turquesa is offline  
#51 of 55 Old 01-11-2013, 02:00 PM - Thread Starter
 
Rrrrrachel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,155
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
I haven't been able to find it, but I emailed someone at chop to ask.

This is from the CDC, and speaks to what I was saying about the actual number of hep b infections being much higher than the reported number. In 2007 the vaccine was already in use.

"In 2007, there were an estimated 43,000 new Hepatitis B virus infections in the United States. However, the official number of reported Hepatitis B cases is much lower. Many people don’t know they are infected or may not have symptoms and therefore never seek the attention of medical or public health officials."
Rrrrrachel is offline  
#52 of 55 Old 01-11-2013, 02:26 PM - Thread Starter
 
Rrrrrachel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,155
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
The WHO position paper (which does footnote their sources) says that in high endemic areas the most common type of transmission is early childhood (including mother to child at birth) and in low endemic areas childhood transmission accounts for as many as 1/3 of chronic cases.

http://www.who.int/wer/2009/wer8440.pdf
Rrrrrachel is offline  
#53 of 55 Old 01-15-2013, 04:06 AM - Thread Starter
 
Rrrrrachel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,155
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
I know this is old news now, but I got this response from my request for a source for the 18000 number.
Quote:
Thanks for contacting us and I apologize for the delayed response. I was in touch with Dr. Offit and he said that number was from the following source:
G. L. Armstrong, E. E. Mast, M. Wojczynski, H. S. Margolis, “Childhood Hepatitis B Virus Infections in the United States Before Hepatitis B Immunization,” Pediatrics 108 (2001): 1123-1128.

I haven't looked it up yet.
Rrrrrachel is offline  
#54 of 55 Old 01-16-2013, 09:47 AM
 
Turquesa's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,050
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)
Thanks for going to that effort!

I don't have time but will take a more thorough look at it later.

In God we trust; all others must show data. selectivevax.gifsurf.gifteapot2.GIFintactivist.gif
Turquesa is offline  
#55 of 55 Old 01-16-2013, 12:24 PM - Thread Starter
 
Rrrrrachel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,155
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
It really wasn't a big deal but you're welcome.
Rrrrrachel is offline  
Reply

Tags
Delayed Vaccination , Selective Vaccination

Quick Reply
Message:
Drag and Drop File Upload
Drag files here to attach!
Upload Progress: 0
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Mothering Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off