Tetanus vax if you live on a farm - if so, which one? - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 33 Old 01-14-2013, 07:48 AM - Thread Starter
 
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We live on a farm with assorted livestock including horses and dairy cows. Our cows produce around 20lbs of manure per day. We use manure on the gardens. I am 98% sure we will be non vaxxing, but - tetanus seems prudent to me. Manure management and handling are a big part of our lives. ;) Our land/soil is full of manure, and also has plenty of rusty old scraps of metal/nails/glass, etc.

 

My kids (10 and 5) were fully vaxxed before we adopted them last year. The five year old is due for his last set before he starts school next year and the ten year old is due for a tetanus booster. I had a tetanus booster 10 years ago and my husband's last one was about 15 years ago.

Once I figure out WHICH tetanus vaccine is the best, I'm going to see if we can't get it at the health dept and get all of us done at once.

 

What I need to know is

1) which tetanus vaccine has the least amount of aluminum/mercury and the most amount of tetanus?

 

2) if there is truly some evidence that tetanus is unnecessary I would like to hear it. If I lived in a 5th floor apartment in NYC I would be glad to skip it. But given our living conditions...

 

Even if there are only 3 deaths a year from tetanus, I'd rather not risk it. But I'm open to having my mind changed. :) Thanks!

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#2 of 33 Old 01-14-2013, 11:48 AM
 
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There's no mercury in any childhood tetanus vaccine. Without Googling the ingredients of tetanus vaccines from CDC (which I presume you can do for yourself) that's all I can tell you.

 

I think given your living situation you're absolutely right to choose to vaccinate against tetanus, and I'm sure it will go fine whichever vaccine you choose. 

 

 Best of luck. :) 


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#3 of 33 Old 01-14-2013, 12:19 PM
 
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You can use the ingredient calculator here http://www.vaccine-tlc.org/ to figure out how the different vaccines compare in aluminum amounts.  

 

I would look up if they require a booster or not.  The booster is probably more for the pertussis than the diptheria or tetanus.  They might still be covered by the tetanus shots.    You could have their titres drawn to see if they need a booster.


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#4 of 33 Old 01-14-2013, 12:35 PM
 
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Tetanus does need to be boosted. They were boosting for tetanus long before the booster included pertussis.
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#5 of 33 Old 01-14-2013, 12:49 PM
 
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Yes, tetanus needs to be boosted. In adults it is every 10 yrs, I believe.  The question is if a  5 year old needs a booster after getting it at 2, 4, 6 and 18 months.  If I when in her shoes, it is something I would research or titre.    

 

This (from the mayo clinic) says a person is covered for tetanus after 3 shots.  I am not sure if this applies to children as well.  

 

"An adult who's never been immunized against tetanus should complete the initial tetanus series of three tetanus shots. The first two shots are given at least four weeks apart, and the third shot is given six to 12 months after the second shot. After the initial tetanus series, booster shots are recommended every 10 years"

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/tetanus-shots/AN01497

 

I still suspect the 5th year Dtap is more for pertussis coverage than anything else.  shrug.gif  I could be wrong, though.  It is up to the Op to research and figure it out.


There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

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#6 of 33 Old 01-14-2013, 12:54 PM
 
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I would get the booster.  I also am from the persuasian that Tetnus is nothing to play around with.  I grew up on a farm and my parents still reside there.  Our policy was always that adults got boosters every 8 years.  I got the needed ones for schools AND if anyone stepped on anything dirty that was a risk, we still got a tetnus shot anyway.  My father gets a tetnus shot every three or four years because he works out in it alot and accidents happen.

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#7 of 33 Old 01-14-2013, 02:23 PM
 
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Dakotacakes…...

 

Per the CDC pinkbook:

 

 

Additional booster doses of tetanus and diphtheria toxoids are required every 10 years to maintain protective antitoxin titers. The first booster dose of Td may be given at 11 or 12 years of age if at least 5 years have elapsed since the last dose of DTaP, DTP, or DT. The Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP) recom- mends that this dose be administered as Tdap. If a dose is given sooner as part of wound management, the next booster is not needed for 10 years thereafter. More frequent boosters are not indicated and have been reported to result in an increased incidence and severity of local adverse reactions"

 

Bolding mine.


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#8 of 33 Old 01-15-2013, 12:48 AM
 
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The FDA Approved Products page should be a good place to start comparing what's available.

 

http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccines/Vaccines/ApprovedProducts/ucm093830.htm

 

I guess part of the issue will be if you're looking for a stand alone tetanus, DT, or Tdap. Good luck.


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#9 of 33 Old 01-15-2013, 01:38 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I feel like I fell down a rabbit hole.  I can't believe that I have to choose among a variety of toxic chemicals to tease out which combo is LEAST LIKELY to harm my child!  This is freaking nuts! 

 

I've researched this for days and my head is spinning.  I called the health dept and they have either Adacel or Boostrix for the 10yo.  The best option for the 5yo is Daptacel.  The main thing I wanted to avoid was mercury.  I'm not particularly concerned with Diptheria or Pertussis, I just want the least toxic tetanus vaccine. 

 

At this point I think my husband and I will go in and get a dose of Adacel.  We're both due for a booster and we're the most "at risk."  I think I'll hold off till summer to do the kids.  The old "buying time" stall.  Maybe by then there will be a new and improved version.  If not, I guess it's Boostrix and Daptacel. 

 

Thanks for the responses and the links.  I'm so frustrated and disgusted I don't believe we'll be doing any other immunizations.  I'm kind of afraid of what I'll learn about those. 

 

Oh, one good piece of info I learned was if your insurance won't cover your preference of vaccine, you can request the preferred vaccine and pay the difference yourself.  In our case it was about $50.

 

Anyhow, thanks for the help.

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#10 of 33 Old 01-18-2013, 01:06 PM
 
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http://www.vaccinetruth.org/page_8.htm

Makes a good read. If you are willing to read through a lot of statistics and draw your own conclusions check out the CDC's own webpage

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6012a1.htm
 


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#11 of 33 Old 02-16-2013, 05:54 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks for the replies.  I haven't gotten them yet and I'm still waffling.  I find good information here and here that makes me seriously NOT want to get any more vaccines PERIOD.  On the other hand I have a neighbor who just lost some prize steers to tetanus and so I still waffle.  I HATE THIS.

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#12 of 33 Old 06-12-2013, 06:54 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I wanted to come back and update with my decision.  All my research says that tetanus won't grow in an oxygen free environment.  So, to prevent tetanus all you have to do is make sure the wound bleeds freely.  Squeeze it to make it bleed, maybe put peroxide on it, and you're good to go.

 

Except... I've gone barefoot most of my life.  I know that if you have a puncture wound on your heel, you can squeeze it 6 ways to Sunday and you can't get it to bleed.  This lesson was reinforced last weekend when I stepped on a board and a nail poked through my gardening clogs and went into my heel.  Remembering what I'd read, I tried for 10 minutes to make it bleed.  Nothing.  My heel might as well have been a stone.  I poured peroxide on it, but considering it was a puncture wound there's no way peroxide is going to penetrate deep into the tissue.

 

And then there's my kids.  They play hard.  They barely notice most of their scrapes and cuts.  They get a nick and keep on going.  If I'm lucky I might notice them at bathtime.  After it's not bled all day.  I'll say, "how did you get that?" and they can't remember.   

 

I really don't want to take the risk.  Even if there's only a 1% chance of tetanus.  I don't want my kid to be that 1%.  And I don't want to have that constant worry in the back of my mind.

 

So we're all going together, as a family, to the health department to get the vaxs.  And then we're going out for ice cream.  Parenting is tough.

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#13 of 33 Old 06-12-2013, 07:37 PM
 
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http://gianelloni.wordpress.com/2013/06/11/the-truth-about-tetanus/


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#14 of 33 Old 06-13-2013, 04:59 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:

 

And there it is again.   "if you step on a nail and you bleed, the Clostridium tetani cannot live."  Have none of these people ever actually walked barefoot??  If it's your HEEL that's punctured, it doesn't bleed.  You can't MAKE IT bleed.  Or if the puncture is deep, it may bleed on the surface but not deep enough to wash out the clostridium from the upper point of the penetration. 

 

Also, it doesn't have to be a puncture.  It could just be a cut or a scrape that your child gets and keeps on playing, without stopping to make sure it bleeds or wash it with peroxide.  Clostridium isn't just found on rusty nails.  It's in plain old dirt or even dust bunnies.  In a former life I had a rose garden and I learned back then that it's quite possible to contract tetanus through jabbing yourself with the thorns. 

 

I also had a couple of other problems with this blog post.  She plays the tiresome Fear card just like everybody else.  She condescendingly says, "Fear is such a strong motivator for vaccines."  Oh, come on!  Sure, I'm afraid of my child dying of tetanus.  But fear is also a strong motivator for anti vaxxing.  I'm also afraid to vax for fear my child will be autistic.  Fear is used exactly the same by both sides.  It reminds me of political posturing, with each side telling you that the other side is fearmongering.

 

She quotes, “Today, tetanus is uncommon in the United States, with an average of 29 reported cases per year from 1996 through 2009″  Yeah, ask the parents of those 29 people what they think about how rare it is.  I still don't want my kid to be one of the 29.

 

And the article from New Zealand.  She just dismisses it out of hand as being obviously a fraud.  Without any checking or sources to back up her claim.  Really?  We're supposed to just believe her that it's a made up story?!

 

I could go on and on but I have to go make breakfast.  I do agree with her that it's stupid that we have to get the diptheria and pertussis along with the tetanus.  I believe those are unneccesary.  However, from my research if I'm remembering correctly, there IS a tetanus only vaccine.  I didn't want that though, because it has aluminum (or possibly mercury, I forget which) and I figured the 3 way would be less toxic.  Which is a helluva choice, isn't it?  But that's what they give us to choose from.

 

And don't get me wrong, I am in no way pro vaccine.  Like I said before, if I lived a sanitary life in a New York high rise I wouldn't be the least concerned about it.  However, I've also had to research giving my calves shots against clostridium/tetanus which adds another layer of information and knowlege.  And calves DO die from tetanus.  (Ironically, I've had to do the same soul searching and researching to figure out which and how many immunizations to give my dogs, cows, and horses.) 

 

You weigh the odds and the risks either way, and then you pick the lesser of two evils.  And I still hate having to do it.

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#15 of 33 Old 06-14-2013, 11:06 AM
 
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We're very much non vaxxing in our circle - We don't start vaccination until the age of 8+ and even then we only do tetanus and then MMR once the child is 13. Meningococcal and Pneumococcal are the only other two vaccines we are considering, as there are roughly 7 cases diagnosed daily. They are both devastating diseases with very little warning from a safe period to life threatening. If we decide to go ahead with them, we will do them at age 9. That's pretty much it for our family.

 

FWIW, I think you made the right decision. hug2.gif
 


 

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#16 of 33 Old 06-15-2013, 05:44 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Thank you LOB.  It was HARD!  Thanks for your comment about the other vaxes.  Now that I have tetanus out of the way I need to start learning about MMR and then the rest.  For some reason I can only concentrate on one at a time.  Why do you postpone the MMR till age 13?  My son came to me at the age of 2 with his scheduled vaxes already done.  So if I'm going to do at all I should probably do it on the schedule he's already begun.  ugh, I'm not looking forward to do this all over again.  But he's 5 and starting school in a few months and I need to get it figured out.

 

Can you share how you arrived at the decision to do MMR but not the others?  Thank you!

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#17 of 33 Old 06-15-2013, 09:42 AM
 
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It is very hard decision happydog, but eventually we're all going to have to decide one way or another. :)

 

We chose MMR for the Measles and Rubella components. We decided to do it at age 13 because that's when the "risk ratio" scale for us was tipped. All the other vaccine preventable diseases we came across, were not applicable to our circumstances (whether it was due to lifestyle, location or age of the person in question).


 

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#18 of 33 Old 06-15-2013, 11:24 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by happydog View Post

 

She quotes, “Today, tetanus is uncommon in the United States, with an average of 29 reported cases per year from 1996 through 2009″  Yeah, ask the parents of those 29 people what they think about how rare it is.  I still don't want my kid to be one of the 29.

 

 

 

 

If you take a look at this  (pages 295 and 296), you will read that 50% of tetanus cases are in those over 50, 15% of cases are diabetic and 15% of cases are intravenous drug users.  If you take a look at the chart on the right hand side of page 295  you will notice that only about 25 kids under 19 had tetanus over a 7 year period.  That is what - about 4 a year?  

 

 

 

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/downloads/tetanus.pdf


There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

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#19 of 33 Old 06-15-2013, 11:32 AM
 
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29 kids a year did not get tetanus.

If you take a look at this  (pages 295 and 296), you will read that 50% of tetanus cases are in those over 50, 15% of cases are diabetic and 15% of cases are intravenous drug users.  If you take a look at the chart on the right hand side of page 295  you will notice that only about 25 kids under 19 had tetanus over a 7 year period.  That is what - about 4 a year?  



http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/downloads/tetanus.pdf

So is the incidence rate low because the vax rate is high? I rarely see any mention of this.

Fwiw I'm leaning against tetanus (and all of em) for now, so I'm not playing devil's advocate. I'm genuinely curious about this - every time the low incidence of tetanus is discussed I wonder what the effectiveness of the vaccine has to do with that and whether the argument is logical that bc tetanus is rare we don't have to worry about it. Anyone have info or thoughts?

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#20 of 33 Old 06-15-2013, 11:49 AM
 
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So is the incidence rate low because the vax rate is high? I rarely see any mention of this.
 

I don't entirely know.

 

I suspect it has something to do with it, but not everything.  

 

3 points:

 

1.  tetanus occured at a rate of 0.4/ 100 000 before vaccine became availible. CDC pinkbook.   It was never, ever a common disease.  

 

2.  tetanus vaccine was introduced in the late 1940's.  At that point in time, more people did live on farms, and farmers are at a increased risk.  We have less farms (by far) now, and that does play a role in the decline of tetanus. 

 

3.  many people have not had a tetanus booster in the last 10 years, yet there is hardly a lot of tetanus floating around

 From :    http://www.pharmacytimes.com/news/Adult-Vaccination-Rates-Fall-Short-of-Targets

 

"Coverage with any vaccine protecting against tetanus over the past 10 years was 64.5% for those aged 19-49, 63.9% for those aged 50-64, and 54.4% for those aged 65 and older."


There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

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#21 of 33 Old 06-15-2013, 12:20 PM
 
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So is the incidence rate low because the vax rate is high? I rarely see any mention of this.

Fwiw I'm leaning against tetanus (and all of em) for now, so I'm not playing devil's advocate. I'm genuinely curious about this - every time the low incidence of tetanus is discussed I wonder what the effectiveness of the vaccine has to do with that and whether the argument is logical that bc tetanus is rare we don't have to worry about it. Anyone have info or thoughts?

 

Not necessarily, tetanus can occur in the fully vaccinated. Vaccination for tetanus does not guarentee you will not get tetanus. Here is a case of a fully vaccinated 14 year old boy that got tetanus:

 

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/120/5/e1355.full.html

 

 

Quote:
His immunization schedule was up-to-date with initially 3 vaccinations in the first year of life and a tetanus booster 1 year before presentation. Communication with the patient's doctor and with the manufacturer of the vaccine revealed that the booster was within the vaccine's expiration date and that there were no reports of reduced quality of that production lot.

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So is the incidence rate low because the vax rate is high? I rarely see any mention of this.
 

This article argues that wound hygeine is the source of the decline in tetanus:

 

http://www.vaclib.org/links/tetanusindex.htm

 

"During the mid-1800s, there were 205 cases of tetanus per 100,000 wounds among U.S. military personnel.
By the early 1900s, this rate had declined to 16 cases per 100,000 wounds--a 92 percent reduction.
During the mid-1940s, the incidence of tetanus dropped even further to .44 cases per 100,000 wounds. (123) Some researchers attribute this decline to an increased attention to wound hygiene. (124,125) [from:]
Page 24, of Vaccines: Are They Really Safe and Effective? by Neil Z. ******, New Edition Copyright 2002."

 


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#23 of 33 Old 06-15-2013, 12:33 PM
 
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Neonatal tetanus disappeared in the developed world long before a tetanus anti-toxin or vaccination was available, thanks to the likes of Florence Nightingale, Ignaz Semmelweiss and Oliver Wendell Holms.


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#24 of 33 Old 06-15-2013, 12:43 PM
 
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Thanks for the info, ladies! I'd been wondering.

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#25 of 33 Old 06-15-2013, 12:57 PM - Thread Starter
 
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She quotes, “Today, tetanus is uncommon in the United States, with an average of 29 reported cases per year from 1996 through 2009″ Yeah, ask the parents of those 29 people what they think about how rare it is. I still don't want my kid to be one of the 29.

 

 

 

     Quote:

Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post

29 kids a year did not get tetanus.

 

If you take a look at this  (pages 295 and 296), you will read that 50% of tetanus cases are in those over 50, 15% of cases are diabetic and 15% of cases are intravenous drug users.  If you take a look at the chart on the right hand side of page 295  you will notice that only about 25 kids under 19 had tetanus over a 7 year period.  That is what - about 4 a year?  

 

 

 

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/downloads/tetanus.pdf

Just to clarify.  I didn't say 29 kids a year get tetanus.  I said 29 people a year get tetanus.  And I don't want my kids to be one of THOSE 29.  Sorry that was confusing to you. smile.gif

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#26 of 33 Old 06-15-2013, 01:08 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I also find it interesting (if a bit disheartening) that half of all cases of tetanus are in people over 50.  My husband and I are both over 50.  If I hadn't been so involved in rose gardening and on rose forums, I probably wouldn't have ever thought of updating my own tetanus boosters.

 

Someone previously mentioned tetanus "floating around."  Where I live people have lost calves to tetanus.  When my milk cow had her first calf I wanted to do it naturally.  For the first year I raised calves I went against everyone's advice and didn't vax my calves before castrating.  Until I had a neighbor who lost some of his calves to tetanus because he didnt want to vax either. 

 

"Floating around" sounds much more benevolent than what it really is.  I vax my calves now, because I don't want them to die a horrible death like my neighbor had to watch with his calves.  So then I had to wrestle with "do I value my kids less than my calves?" 

 

And even so, like I said, it was a hard decision.

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#27 of 33 Old 06-15-2013, 01:29 PM
 
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That is a really tough decision mama! This has been a really interesting thread to read. Thanks for posing this question. FWIW, I would probably make the choice to vax in your situation. It seems like your instinct is telling you to do so and from an outsiders perspective (not that you need my validation) it makes a lot of sense to get one. My eldest could have a gash in her leg and forget to tell me until hours later. I totally get not trusting simply cleaning the wound smile.gif
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#28 of 33 Old 06-15-2013, 02:05 PM
 
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Originally Posted by mamatoabirdie View Post

That is a really tough decision mama! This has been a really interesting thread to read. Thanks for posing this question. FWIW, I would probably make the choice to vax in your situation. It seems like your instinct is telling you to do so and from an outsiders perspective (not that you need my validation) it makes a lot of sense to get one. My eldest could have a gash in her leg and forget to tell me until hours later. I totally get not trusting simply cleaning the wound smile.gif

But the problem is you can't skimp on wound cleaning even if you are vaccinated, you are giving yourself a false sense of security if you think that. 


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"If you find from your own experience that something is a fact and it contradicts what some authority has written down, then you must abandon the authority and base your reasoning on your own findings"~ Leonardo da Vinci

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#29 of 33 Old 06-15-2013, 02:07 PM
 
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But the problem is you can't skimp on wound cleaning even if you are vaccinated, you are giving yourself a false sense of security if you think that. 

That is a really great point. Thank you.
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#30 of 33 Old 06-15-2013, 02:48 PM
 
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Such a hard choice, OP. I work in the farming world and I will say that lots of folks don't vax at all except tetanus. It's a tough decision.

Good luck!!! <3

Wife to one amazing husband superhero.gif, SAHM to DS bouncy.gif 10/09, DS babyboy.gif 10/19,  one furbaby dog2.gif, and lots of chicken3.gif!

 
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