What do we want from Mindful Vaccination Board? - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 58 Old 02-01-2013, 11:32 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Basically what is says on the tin - a thread to discuss what MDC mothers want from this board and what is understood by "support only" for mindful vaccination choices. smile.gif

Ps - why do we have to tag each new thread as either selective or delayed?

Mother of two living in UK. Daughter (2007) born in USA, son (2010) born here. I'm pro natural birth, midwife care, breastfeeding, co-sleeping, baby wearing and a keen advocate of cloth diapering. I'm a full time working research scientist (physical sciences) and I'm pro-vaccine.

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#2 of 58 Old 02-02-2013, 05:55 AM
 
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I want a place to discuss things with more like minded people, without having to go through the same old back and fourths about the basics of immunology.
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#3 of 58 Old 02-02-2013, 06:20 AM
 
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That sounds like an easy glitch to fix. Admin just needs to add a third box to check labelled "on schedule."

Honestly, the influx of full vaxxers--including self-ascribed "trolls" and people here to convince others to vax on schedule--is a relatively new phenomenon on MDC.

My advice? It's hit-and-miss for the moderators to see this thread soon, so I recommend messaging them and asking to add that third box.

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#4 of 58 Old 02-02-2013, 06:45 AM
 
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Is it just the missing "on schedule" box that is bothering you?  (Not a baiting question - I think figuring out on who can play on what boards and when is tricky.)


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#5 of 58 Old 02-02-2013, 06:55 AM
 
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Originally Posted by prosciencemum View Post

Basically what is says on the tin - a thread to discuss what MDC mothers want from this board and what is understood by "support only" for mindful vaccination choices. smile.gif

Ps - why do we have to tag each new thread as either selective or delayed?

The problem is that you want to limit this board to only selective or delayed vaccinators whose children have never experienced a problem from a vaccine.

You want to exclude all mothers who did and perhaps still do mindfully vaccinate but who dare to question or criticize even one vaccine because of their child's reaction to it. You also want to exclude mothers like myself, who would consider vaccines that have been pulled from the market, like the measles-only vaccine.

You apparently only want to consider what some MDC mothers want from this board, not all. Given the number of mothers who are unhappy with the constant effort by some here to promote ALL vaccines, I think your assessment:
Quote:
Originally Posted by prosciencemum View Post

Since 99.999% (double check how many 9s after decimal) of children have no serious reaction to vaccines this thread is likely to have hundreds of posts before encountering a story about reactions.
is grossly incorrect. It also can be read as an invitation/challenge to those MDC parents whose children had serious reactions to post their (non-supportive) experiences in reply--perhaps so you can shoot them down and then report them? That's what you've done before.

You apparently don't want a "Mindful Vaccination" forum at all. What you seem to want is a "Vaccination Propaganda" forum (please see the "My Kid Just Got A Shot Celebration Thread!"), which is obviously not mindful at all.
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#6 of 58 Old 02-02-2013, 07:40 AM
 
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What I would like is a place to discuss all vaccine schedules, including the "standard" one, which a parent could just as easily "select" as well.  (IOW, I have no problem with tagging on-schedule posts as "selective".) 

 

I understand a "support only" Mindful Vax board as meaning, "those members who no longer vaccinate their children at all, may want to find another board that better suits their needs."  (That being said, I'm assuming MDC has some kind of "killfile" or "block poster" feature, though I've never felt the need to do that myself.) 

ETA: Just found it! It's called "Block Member", and is very easy to do, anytime one feels one's blood pressure rising...

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#7 of 58 Old 02-02-2013, 08:45 AM
 
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I think it would be nice if people who no longer vaccinated stayed away. I would like that so I could post SOMEwhere without all the usual bickering or even downright hostility. I try and show them the same courtesy on the I'm not vaccinating board. I think that has to be a result of consideration for others rather than mod enforcement, though.
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#8 of 58 Old 02-02-2013, 08:51 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Taximom5 View Post

The problem is that you want to limit this board to only selective or delayed vaccinators whose children have never experienced a problem from a vaccine.

You want to exclude all mothers who did and perhaps still do mindfully vaccinate but who dare to question or criticize even one vaccine because of their child's reaction to it. You also want to exclude mothers like myself, who would consider vaccines that have been pulled from the market, like the measles-only vaccine.

You apparently only want to consider what some MDC mothers want from this board, not all. Given the number of mothers who are unhappy with the constant effort by some here to promote ALL vaccines, I think your assessment:
is grossly incorrect. It also can be read as an invitation/challenge to those MDC parents whose children had serious reactions to post their (non-supportive) experiences in reply--perhaps so you can shoot them down and then report them? That's what you've done before.

You apparently don't want a "Mindful Vaccination" forum at all. What you seem to want is a "Vaccination Propaganda" forum (please see the "My Kid Just Got A Shot Celebration Thread!"), which is obviously not mindful at all.

Taxi you are neither selectively vax nor delay so I really cannot see how you think that this is a place where ou fit in. You disagree with everything posted on this SUPPORT ONLY board. Unless you would like people here to visit the I'm Not Vaxing board to discredit what many of us see as anti-vaccine propaganda posted there.
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#9 of 58 Old 02-02-2013, 10:25 AM
 
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I partly vaxed three children and did none for the fourth. 

 

Even though I have and would consider vaxing,  I would not think it was my place to visit the delayed and selective board unless I was sincerely going to make that choice or had learned something to help with those making that choice.  Right now I know I don't belong. 

 

I am fine with the boundaries between not vaccinating and vaccinating.  I know which one I am speaking as so I would not visit the other board even though I vaxed in the past.  If I had a question about considering getting a tetanus shot I would go to mindful though.  Until I have that kind of question I'd respect the boundary.

 

I am not familiar with the other concerns with categorizing. 

 

I do think it is important to realize what an uncomfortable minority non-vaxers already are in this nation.  For those who don't vax, Mothering is an unusually safe place to speak out, and for those who do and want to argue with non-vaxers, this is an unusually easy place to find people to throw those arguments at.  (In most places, the non-vaxing moms are very private but people who want to can find them and confront them here.)  Efforts to maintain safe places here are valuable.


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#10 of 58 Old 02-02-2013, 10:37 AM
 
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And I think it's important to realize that vaccinating can often seem like a controversial choice within the ap community. I've been told more than once that I wasn't a real mother or didn't belong in a particular natural living/ap community because I choose to vaccinate.
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#11 of 58 Old 02-02-2013, 11:15 AM
 
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I want the moderation to be consistent with that of the "I'm Not Vaccinating" board.  If no argument, countering with factual discussion, or departure from "support only" is acceptable there, it should not be acceptable here.

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#12 of 58 Old 02-02-2013, 11:57 AM
 
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Originally Posted by chickabiddy View Post

I want the moderation to be consistent with that of the "I'm Not Vaccinating" board.  If no argument, countering with factual discussion, or departure from "support only" is acceptable there, it should not be acceptable here.

Exactly.
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#13 of 58 Old 02-02-2013, 12:20 PM
 
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I want the moderation to be consistent with that of the "I'm Not Vaccinating" board.  If no argument, countering with factual discussion, or departure from "support only" is acceptable there, it should not be acceptable here.

 

 

You have posted on the non-vax board, although you are not a non-vaxxer.
 
Non-vaxxers have been told they are not allowed to post here unless they are doing so in a way that is seeking support as a mindful vaxxer.  
 
Non-vaxxers are not seeking support for vaxxing when they post here (as a general rule); likewise pro-vaxxers are not seeking support for non-vaxxing when they post in non-vaxxing.
 
In any event, I agree with you, moderation should be consistent (and I am not saying it isn't)…but if I am not allowed to post over here because I am non-vax, then you can't post over on non-vax as you are vax…sel/delayed can decide for themselves on appropriate placement.
 
That is something MDC needs to post clearly - can a non-vaxxer or mindful vaxxer who has not switched sides or is contemplating switching sides post on the other forum at all? 
 
Personally, I would prefer it if we did not become so attached to "support only" that we shut down anybody who is not 100% devoted to whichever side we are on. I can understand the allure - I am sure we all have posters that make our blood pressure rise!  I am just not sure it is a good idea in the long run.  We can lose valuable insight that way.  I don't really love the term "support only" as it is fuzzy.  I think posters from other subforums need to refrain from proselytizing, and they need to play nice on a subforum that is not theirs.  My 2 cents.  
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#14 of 58 Old 02-02-2013, 12:25 PM
 
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You have posted on the non-vax board, although you are not a non-vaxxer.

 

 

And moderators took exception to it.  I accept that, but I expect the same standards across the board.


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#15 of 58 Old 02-02-2013, 12:38 PM
 
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And moderators took exception to it.  I accept that, but I expect the same standards across the board.

I was locked out of a thread on mindful vax for explaining what vaccine effectiveness meant, and saying the very truthful fact that most Americans do not get a flu shot.  I did not try to convert anybody, and I was definitely playing nice. 

 

I am not mad at MDC over this, that is their call.

 

I would just like to see the words so I know where I stand:

 

Can I post over here if I play nice and have something fruitful to add to the discussion, even though I am in no way pro-vax?

Can a pro-vaxxer post on non-vax if they play nice and can add to the discussion in a fruitful way?

 

I think it would help everybody to know what the policy is in a very clear way.

 

ETA:  I occasionally get the feeling pro-vaxxers think the mods favour non-vaxxers.  I know many non-vaxxers think the mods favour pro-vaxxers.  I don't doubt the mods get very frustrated with all of us.  orngtongue.gif  From a few conversations I have had with mods, I think they try hard not to favour anyone, and we do not always know what goes on behind the scenes.  


There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

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#16 of 58 Old 02-02-2013, 12:50 PM
 
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I think to when your posting is argumentative (as some posters chronically are, even in support only forums). That its a problem. I've seen people come ask about brands of tetanus and stuff and you (Kathy) have provided helpful information. I don't think that's a problem.
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#17 of 58 Old 02-02-2013, 12:58 PM
 
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I want support and to know that I am no alone.  I have a philosophy of gentleness and subscribe to many ideals, but not vaccinating is not something I am comfortable with.  The problem is that all of parenting in general has become "campy" with people either in one category or the other.  I have made the decision to vaccinate, and I wan to be respected as a mother for that without having to hide other aspects (I am against spanking etc.).  this forum provides me with the reassurance that I am not alone.   I have no intention of going into the Not vaccinating forum and posting to multiple threads about why they should reconsider.    I want to discuss experiences with the schedule.  to discuss options with vaccinations, and have a place to be validated with a decision that I did with a great amount of concern, deliberation an thought.  If a person is posting here as opposed to the beginning research or debate board they have made the decision and do not need to be told they are wrong,

 

Much like before my child is two months old and therefore before he/she has had any vaccines whatsoever I do not really fit in the "I am not vaccinating " board because I plan to do so, I don't think that parents who have vaccinated in the past but made the decision they do not wish to any longer  really fit in the mindful vaccination board.  For me personally it is about respect.  I respect non-vaccinating parents rights to have a support only forum Because of that, I wish to be respected in return. 

 

I also will always visit discussion/debate boards because I have no interest in being trapped in a total echo chamber where I only hear my own viewpoint.  But there is a forum for that (discussion and debates).  I think it really is just about respect and following the intent of the forums rather than trying to find a loop hole to turn all four into the same thing (like when my child is 1 month old I posted in not vaccinating because as of yet I haven't)

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#18 of 58 Old 02-02-2013, 01:05 PM
 
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Personally I would feel more comfortable if I could post to a selective/delayed/non/not yet type of board, as I feel that best accommodates where I am right now- confused and vax hesitant/skeptical.  My first two kids are fully vaxxed (DD1 even got the first two in the guardasil series).  DS is not vaxxed yet, but I'm on the fence about MMR and Tetanus...  we're definitely waiting till he's past two, but although I lean against doing them, I'm still very much considering our options. 

 

My problem is that it sounds like this forum has become only pro vax: vaccines are "celebrated" and sel/del concerns are barely tolerated.  If I were 100% sure we wouldn't vax again I wouldn't care, but I'm genuinely concerned about what to do.  I would just like these forums to be a place for people to discuss our concerns and decision making, and not have them dominated by a few voices who are actively trying to convert others to their "side" and disparage those with differing opinions.

 

And can't we be "supportive" of each other, even while having differences?  It seems like "support" is being used here to mean you have to support the concept of vaccination unreservedly, whereas from a social perspective, "support" should refer to the civility with which we treat each other while having important discussions- which should be allowed to contain some disagreement.


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#19 of 58 Old 02-02-2013, 01:46 PM
 
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Personally I would feel more comfortable if I could post to a selective/delayed/non/not yet type of board, as I feel that best accommodates where I am right now- confused and vax hesitant/skeptical.  My first two kids are fully vaxxed (DD1 even got the first two in the guardasil series).  DS is not vaxxed yet, but I'm on the fence about MMR and Tetanus...  we're definitely waiting till he's past two, but although I lean against doing them, I'm still very much considering our options. 

 

My problem is that it sounds like this forum has become only pro vax: vaccines are "celebrated" and sel/del concerns are barely tolerated.  If I were 100% sure we wouldn't vax again I wouldn't care, but I'm genuinely concerned about what to do.  I would just like these forums to be a place for people to discuss our concerns and decision making, and not have them dominated by a few voices who are actively trying to convert others to their "side" and disparage those with differing opinions.

 

And can't we be "supportive" of each other, even while having differences?  It seems like "support" is being used here to mean you have to support the concept of vaccination unreservedly, whereas from a social perspective, "support" should refer to the civility with which we treat each other while having important discussions- which should be allowed to contain some disagreement.

 

This.

 

I would classify myself as vax confused and hesitant. I did post here awhile back and got just got links to the current vax schedule, but no critical evaluation thereof....so, i am hesitating. Shortly after that, my ds2 went to a homeopath who said some of his symptoms could have been related to his vaccines....my baby was scheduled to receive her vaccinations, for which she is 11mths late, the following day.... i hesitated, still hesitating.

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#20 of 58 Old 02-02-2013, 02:29 PM
 
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If you don't want the forum o be dominated by people who choose to vax on schedule than post more. People who choose to vaccinate on schedule are part of this forum, too, though. They have just as much a right to post threads from their own perspective as you do from yours.
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#21 of 58 Old 02-02-2013, 02:51 PM
 
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If you don't want the forum o be dominated by people who choose to vax on schedule than post more. People who choose to vaccinate on schedule are part of this forum, too, though. They have just as much a right to post threads from their own perspective as you do from yours.

to whom are you responding?  If it is me, then I'm afraid you've misunderstood.  I don't care how much you vaccinate your kids, I just want the space to be friendly to people who do it on a selective/delayed schedule, even if they're delaying indefinitely, and for it not to be dominated by a couple of pushy people who make others feel judged and unwelcome if they're not strictly adhering to the CDC's schedule.


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#22 of 58 Old 02-02-2013, 05:32 PM
 
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Recently, because we have been refusing booster shots I've been leaning on the non-vax forum, though I am not actually non-vax.  I actually identify quite a bit with the sel/delay crowd because if I were allowed a do-over, I would be in this camp.  

 

What I would want from Mindful Vaccination would be tolerance of the skepticism we have towards vaccines.  This is not a reaction to anything specific in the forum, simply a statement of what I would expect and hope for posting here.


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#23 of 58 Old 02-02-2013, 11:07 PM
 
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I think the tricky thing here is that a parent may choose to get only one vax and be against others.  For instance I have a non-vaxed child.  Now that she is 10yo, I have thought about doing delayed vaxes.  I do believe that a well-established immune system in an older child can process vaxes with less harm.

 

I'm not vaccinating now and I would generally post in I'm not Vaccinating.  However, it would be easy for me to shift and be partially vaxing again but still fully against flu shots and chicken pox vaxes.  So then in a discussion about flu vaxes I would criticize the flu vax.  In a discussion about chicken pox I would advise against it for anyone.  I would sound just like I was non-vaxing when speaking adamantly against just a couple of vaxes. 

 

I would be in Mindful Vax forum legitimately but I would sound like I wasn't. 

 

When speaking as a partial-vaxing parent about the ones I am avoiding I would not sound supportive even if I were sincerely trying to help my partial-vaxing friends see the wisdom of which part of partial to go with.


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#24 of 58 Old 02-02-2013, 11:21 PM
 
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I think this has always been an issue. I was here nearly a decade ago and while there were less trollish posts advocating full vax absolutely exactly on schedule, there was plenty of rudeness and "you'll kill your child!" hysteria from both sides. I did some, I delayed some, I skipped one. Oh, and one reaction, fairly difficult to discount--hives. Can't do the booster for that vaccine, probably...

 

I'd love to feel that I could ask about finishing that series for my child, or not, and be able to discuss allergic reactions, growing out of them or not, and merits versus risks of finishing, not finishing, delaying til adulthood and making it the adult child's decision... but while I might have done that a decade ago and just waded through the hysterical responses for the reasoned ones, I haven't wanted to do that with the present board. Not sure if it's actually worse, or if it's just that I'm older and I can discuss with IRL friends more easily than I could when my oldest was an infant. (Yes, I've talked to the allergist and our doctor. They say wait years and consider a booster, maybe, as a teen. Which is what we'll do.)


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#25 of 58 Old 02-02-2013, 11:50 PM
 
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One has to be skeptical about their own position to give good advice. 


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#26 of 58 Old 02-03-2013, 12:13 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Wow great discussion. Really interesting to read everyone's thoughts.

My question on the tagging, wasn't so much that I want a third category. I'm fine with the idea of selecting everything and having a delay of zero, just that after tagging, nothing seems to be done with the tags, so we maybe don't need them at all. Some suggested PMing a moderator about it, so thanks for that.

To people who want all viewpoints on this board - can I ask how you imagine it being different from the main vaccination discussion board? Just curious for what circumstances people would post here looking for many viewpoints on a vaccination question rather than there. smile.gif

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#27 of 58 Old 02-03-2013, 05:28 AM
 
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I think it would be nice if people who no longer vaccinated stayed away.

There is a strong push from a few posters here to censor parents from sharing their own experiences with vaccines. I find this absolutely chilling.

On what grounds does MDC think it's acceptable to prevent parents from reading, " hey, be careful with this product that _______ is recommending, because it harmed my child?"

If, as prosciencemum has stated, vaccines are safe for 99.9999%, then why so much effort to prevent anyone whose child has reacted from saying so? Why would MDC create a forum where reactions are not permitted to be mentioned, and independent (non-industry-funded/directed/interpreted/marketed) science questioning vaccine safety/efficacy is not permitted to be mentioned? Isn't that like creating a forum for smoker support in a community where more and more people are suffering from tobacco-induced illness?

And don't dare to mention that there is any similarity to past historical events where censorship and government-encouraged divisiveness occurred. You can't even do that on the "I'm Not Vaccinating" forum without being threatened with banning.

There's something very wrong with this whole picture.
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#28 of 58 Old 02-03-2013, 05:49 AM
 
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I am in no way trying to censor anyone.
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#29 of 58 Old 02-03-2013, 06:23 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Taximom5 View Post


There is a strong push from a few posters here to censor parents from sharing their own experiences with vaccines. I find this absolutely chilling.
You know that the word "censorship" does not apply to a privately-owned website not run by the government, right? (Sorry, just needed to pull out some journ school geekery for a second...)
 
On what grounds does MDC think it's acceptable to prevent parents from reading, " hey, be careful with this product that _______ is recommending, because it harmed my child?"
I'm not sure they do think that's acceptable.  Parents can read lots of those types of posts in I'm Not Vaccinating; Vaccine Discussion & Debate; Vaccination Research for Beginners, et al, et al. Or, if you're a member of a particular due date club, you can post that info there... Or, members and non-members alike can find those posts on Google.  (MDC actually has GREAT SEO, and a lot of the posters here first came across the site when Googling a parenting-related topic. That's true for me, at least.) 
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#30 of 58 Old 02-03-2013, 07:10 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taximom5 View Post

There is a strong push from a few posters here to censor parents from sharing their own experiences with vaccines. I find this absolutely chilling.

On what grounds does MDC think it's acceptable to prevent parents from reading, " hey, be careful with this product that _______ is recommending, because it harmed my child?"

If, as prosciencemum has stated, vaccines are safe for 99.9999%, then why so much effort to prevent anyone whose child has reacted from saying so? Why would MDC create a forum where reactions are not permitted to be mentioned, and independent (non-industry-funded/directed/interpreted/marketed) science questioning vaccine safety/efficacy is not permitted to be mentioned? Isn't that like creating a forum for smoker support in a community where more and more people are suffering from tobacco-induced illness?

And don't dare to mention that there is any similarity to past historical events where censorship and government-encouraged divisiveness occurred. You can't even do that on the "I'm Not Vaccinating" forum without being threatened with banning.

There's something very wrong with this whole picture.

Ok Taxi, if this is what you want for the Mindful Vaccination forum would you have a problem with moms posting about complications their kids had when they contracted VPD's in the I'm not Vaxing forum? What about hospital birthing moms posting concerns in the UC forum?

Since there is ample opportunity in the Vaccine Discussion and Debate and Researching the Decision to ask questions about adverse reactions and other issues I see nothing wrong with a support only forum where moms who choose to vaccinate in one capacity or another can have to ask questions and share experiences with those who share the same opinions on vaccinating.
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