Why do you post to Mindful Vaccination (or the MDC Vaccination Boards at all)? - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 38 Old 03-27-2013, 08:01 AM - Thread Starter
 
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We have the thread on who *should* post here, and it got me curious about why people want to post here, whether you're selective, delayed or more or less on schedule with immunizations. Also who reads this without posting much (just say hi!). 

 

It's a common theme that those of us who adhere more or less to the vaccination schedule don't need a support forum. I think that's a bit unfair and unwelcoming.  

 

For me it goes right back to before I even ever heard of Mothering.com. I am a bit of a hippychick. For example I enjoy yoga, and try to be environmentally friendly etc. I wanted (and had) a midwife led, mostly natural birth (in the USA). Following that I was a very determined and vocal breast feeder (extended) and also decided to try cloth diapers. I can't remember if someone gifted me an annual subscription to the Mothering Magazine when my first was born, or if I found it by myself. But I enjoyed the posts on attachment parenting, baby wearing etc. I enjoy the emphasis on "joyful motherhood" over stressing about setting strict routines, and if your kid is sleeping through the night etc. It helped me realise co-sleeping was very safe, and that lots of birth practices in the US especially are not. But then.... 

 

Well we moved to the UK (no more magazine, which then stopped publishing anyway) and I started getting emails about the forum. And I started hearing what I found to be a strong anti-vaccination message coming in some of those emails. I have come across people several times who assume I don't vaccinate because of my other parenting practices. I don't think natural parenting should be taken over by not-vaccinating. I think there's room to pick and choose what works for your family. So eventually instead of ignoring those emails (I guess it was in 2012) I came to see what was happening over here. 

 

My kids aren't babies any more. I'm not using nappies and needing to come here for help on washing them. I'm comfortable with my parenting choices so I don't feel the need to discuss most of them, but the anti-vaccination message bothers me (sorry, just does). I don't want to prove anyone whose made up their mind differently, but I do want to see all views expressed on MDC. So I stick around to share my views. And I'm really learning a lot (but none of it has changed my mind yet). 

 

 Although I do love the decluttering threads - my house really needs that! ;) And sometimes I go and rant at people talking about how mixed race kids are cute because they're mixed race. That annoys me to! 

 

Anyway I like that we have a support forum for "Mindful Vaccination" so that when new mothers come here they see that it's not just one choice about vaccinating to be "proper" natural mother. Plus it's nice to have somewhere to post where I'm not going to be subtly (or less subtly) accused of being a pharma shill and have anything and everything I say disagreed with (honestly some days I think if I posted "kittens are cute" I'd be told I'm pushing an agenda and not having a proper source for my fact!). 

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#2 of 38 Old 03-27-2013, 03:53 PM
 
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My story is similar. I believe in babywearing, gentle discipline and just gentle parenting in general along with eating well and breastfeeding. When I became a parent I joined some parenting groups. I find a polarity that distrubs me, it is all or nothing.

So because I believe in vaccinations and vaccinate they shun because I don't "fit" but by teh same token more mainstream tthink I am crazy because of the other beliefs. I don't understand how condeming vaccination has become part of attachment parenting or gentle parenting. I worry that it will scare others away from all of the practices because of the all or nohtingness that has developed.

I participate in the vaccination forums to try to understand and try to build bridges. But it hasn't worked. I have found online that believing in gentle parenting but choosing to vaccinate you either hide that or are labeled a pharma shill posing as a parent. It is frustrating.

I post in the mindful vaccination to find people who are like minded and in the same conundrum as I am.
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#3 of 38 Old 03-27-2013, 04:16 PM
 
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Hi!  I mostly avoid posting, but I'm learning what I can about vaccination issues.  I still feel I am very much a beginner.  My girls were fully vaxxed as toddlers, but I became increasingly wary, realizing that I simply didn't know enough of the issues surrounding the controversy.  

 

I especially was turned off by the recent huge push to "vaccinate or please, will you kindly go throw yourself off a bridge" attitude that has cropped up in recent years.  People who know nothing about the issue still adamantly believe that all who question vaccines are idiots (and I have unFriended one, in large part because of that--no kids, no real information to offer or counteroffer, simply condemnation).  

 

Well, I haven't become a non-vaxxer per se, even though we have entirely skipped booster shots, but the issue still grates.  I am not ready to throw the proverbial baby out with the bathwater, however, and enjoy hearing from both sides of the debate-- at least as long as it's not OT.  That is infinitely preferable to the one-sidedness I hear other places.  Truly, this place doesn't seem much different than the coffeehouse I enjoyed hanging out in.  Of course, that's my impression-- when a thread gets testy and OT, I go someplace else and so I might be missing the worst of it here.

 

So, I hold open the possibility that I will discuss vaccines down the road with my daughters, and I am trying to arm myself with information to help them make a decision.  Until I know where we will fall, I still count myself as selected vax.


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#4 of 38 Old 03-27-2013, 04:26 PM
 
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Why?  Sometimes I don't know.

 

My crunch credentials are pretty solid:  breastfed for over six years, bed-shared longer than that, cloth-diapered, never spanked, etc.  But those days are behind me and I'm content with that, so I don't post that much anywhere else here.  I am a CPST and do post occasionally in Family Safety.

 

My daughter is vaxed fully on a slightly delayed schedule.  I came here to this forum because I'm a bit torn about Gardasil (daughter just turned eleven).  I join in the bickering because I'm surprised at what passes for science in some of the threads.  I need to let that go because it just doesn't help -- people will decide for themselves whom they find credible.


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#5 of 38 Old 03-28-2013, 04:55 PM
 
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Yeah some days (most days?) I just don't know. I originally joined mothering when I was a few months pp and I was looking for people with similar parenting philosophies to have community with.
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#6 of 38 Old 03-29-2013, 12:38 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Dakotacakes: it's a good point about being worried parents will be scared off all natural parenting by the perceived anti-vaccine message. That'd be a real shame.

I really like that my kids benefit from all the good things in natural parenting (attachment, gentle discipline, avoiding too much sugar or processed foods), and benefit from vaccinating.

I'm glad I started this thread. Nice to hear from like minded mums. This reminds me of some of the stories which came out on the "Mothering Mamas who thoughtfully vaccinate" thread. smile.gif

Mother of two living in UK. Daughter (2007) born in USA, son (2010) born here. I'm pro natural birth, midwife care, breastfeeding, co-sleeping, baby wearing and a keen advocate of cloth diapering. I'm a full time working research scientist (physical sciences) and I'm pro-vaccine.

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#7 of 38 Old 03-29-2013, 10:41 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prosciencemum View Post

 

It's a common theme that those of us who adhere more or less to the vaccination schedule don't need a support forum. I think that's a bit unfair and unwelcoming.  

 

 

I very much need emotional support for vaccinating!!

 

I don't really like the vibe that since by vaccinating my child, I'm the majority and it's ok for the minority to beat up on me.

 

Vaccinating makes me very uncomfortable. I've basically given permission for my perfect little unadulterated baby's virgin blood to be bastardized by some foreign substances, most of which I don't even know how to pronounce.  I have very little educational background in science or biology so I have to trust and have faith that those who do are being honest and have persuaded me to do what was right for my child. As a layperson, the "studies" are almost impossible to interpret but I still seek them out to make myself feel better about my decision, which wasn't even really my decision, I was mostly bullied into it by my family who do have medical backgrounds. 

 

I need support from people who aren't motivated by either a superiority complex or defending their own decisions which may have been different from mine. 

 

I don't understand how the two sides can hate each other so much over something that has no effect (if their theories are correct) over their own children. If a parent vaccinated their child, what difference does it make if someone else didn't? That's why your child is vaccinated... and if someone doesn't vaccinate their child, how does another parent vaccinating their own child make yours any less safe?? If anyone should hate anyone, it should be the non-vaxxers who hate each other, no?

 

I come to these forums in general because I tend to identify with natural "mothering" more than the alternative. To me mothering has almost nothing to do with how your child came out of you or whether or not they were vaccinated, and yet those seem to be the hottest topics for some reason.

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#8 of 38 Old 03-29-2013, 11:59 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Escaping - it really can be a very emotional day when you go to get the shots for your kids. Who likes to let strangers near their baby with a sharp object. It's horrible to see them cry. And the look of betrayal. greensad.gif

And no matter how convinced you feel about the safety checks I'm sure there's always a little voice in your head saying "but what if?" (I do remember that both times my kids got MMR first shot).

It's a great point that some emotional support through that process will help - especially from the vast majority of mothers whose kids get through it with no incident.

I hope you can find that here.

Mother of two living in UK. Daughter (2007) born in USA, son (2010) born here. I'm pro natural birth, midwife care, breastfeeding, co-sleeping, baby wearing and a keen advocate of cloth diapering. I'm a full time working research scientist (physical sciences) and I'm pro-vaccine.

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#9 of 38 Old 03-30-2013, 12:03 AM - Thread Starter
 
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To me mothering has almost nothing to do with how your child came out of you or whether or not they were vaccinated, and yet those seem to be the hottest topics for some reason.

It's a great point. These are such a tiny fraction of the time invested in mothering. Funny really.

I don't think I gave my vaccination choices much thought until I was (how I perceived to be) bombarded with anti-vaccination messages from mothering.com. I suppose it worked for them, in that it prompted me to spend a lot more time on their forums.

So far I've learned a lot, but still feel confident I made the right decisions in the first place. smile.gif

Mother of two living in UK. Daughter (2007) born in USA, son (2010) born here. I'm pro natural birth, midwife care, breastfeeding, co-sleeping, baby wearing and a keen advocate of cloth diapering. I'm a full time working research scientist (physical sciences) and I'm pro-vaccine.

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#10 of 38 Old 03-30-2013, 09:23 AM
 
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I post here sometimes because I'm glad this forum exists. Like many of you, I'm a cloth diapering, breastfeeding attachment parent who really needs a community of like-minded moms.

 

I believe in vaccinating children, and it's really good to see you all here and not feel alone. Also, I think it's nice for other new moms to come to the forum and see that we exist.

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#11 of 38 Old 03-30-2013, 10:08 AM
 
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I never post here but I read all the time. To learn and explore ideas, and read the links/research for myself. 

 

I am a homebirthing, cloth diapering, breastfeeding, gentle parenting mom who vaxes selectively and on a delayed schedule so I feel like I fit in the middle somewhere. I read research and all kinds of information but take info from either side with a grain of salt...there is ridiculous propaganda on both sides.

 

What I don't understand is the nastiness though.  I've seen it here, through my former work experiences with public health, and in mommy groups.  Questioning things are good, it keeps us all safer. We can all do our research, evaluate the risks vs the benefits and make the decision we feel is best with the information we have out of love for our children. So...just because we don't agree that doesn't mean we can't be respectful and understanding of the rights of others to have different viewpoints. I would like to see more of that.

 

Btw, I understand the passion on both sides and the desire to help families who are on the fence but when there is meanness, sarcasm, etc in a post the rest of the info tends to get discounted. So it's in our best interests and we help more people by having respectful discussions all around.

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#12 of 38 Old 03-30-2013, 11:02 AM
 
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I hate the subscriptions emails. I have never subscribed to the anti vax posts yet they are always there in my email. It is really a turnoff how much the subject is pushed. THere are so many other ways and great things about being a more natural minded mama.
 

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#13 of 38 Old 04-01-2013, 05:51 AM
 
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Posting to subscribe and to share some info about emails. 

 

First, I want to say thanks for posting this. I had read some questions about why people participate here and the most obvious source of that information seemed to me to just ask a genuine question. I'm not sure if that was ever done so starting this thread seems a good way to go. 

 

To answer, I didn't really post here before becoming a mod. I read a lot here - was one of the lurkers. I relate very much to Escaping's post and probably could have written it. I was raised by homesteading hippies (until the 80s got to 'em), so a lot of NFL comes really "naturally" to me. Ha, ha, ha.  I've seen people from all ends of the NFL spectrum make difficult choices whether it be from having cancer to mental illness to a child with physical, developmental or emotional needs. I very much view NFL as a community or sub-culture (more so in some areas than others) and I'd like to see us be there for parents when they struggle. That goes for both sides!  

 

Also, for me, this was the very first place I found as an internet "home" and it remained the only place I participated in other than reading until Facebook, which I only use for friendships. I don't know if that is true for all of our members. So, for me it is a unique place where I can put a lot of the energy around NFL/AP that doesn't have a home IRL. 

 

 

But, mainly I posted to let some of you know what I did with subscriptions and email. The whole email process confuses me so I have decided to set all my posts, subscriptions and etc. to "site only".  I check here frequently enough that this works. It also means that you will not wake up and see a snarky thread before you've had your coffee...if you're subscribed to those types of threads.  

 

If you continue to get messages you don't want in your email - you can just "block" or spam filter those.  It's important that MDC be a place for positivity for those who come here for that (which I think is most of our membership) and I'd be happy to help anyone find a way to ensure that it's that way for them.  PM me if you need help sorting your notifications. 

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#14 of 38 Old 04-02-2013, 12:47 PM
 
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We have the thread on who *should* post here, and it got me curious about why people want to post here, whether you're selective, delayed or more or less on schedule with immunizations. Also who reads this without posting much (just say hi!). 

I haven't posted here in a long time, but I read here frequently.  We're pretty much a moderate AP/NFL family: more than most people we know offline, less than most people on MDC.  We do vaccinate.

 

My son is almost 9 and is up to date on his vaxes.  We are currently undecided about the HPV vax for him, but still have a couple of years to figure that out. He has autism.  He born with it, as well as with a couple of other genetic disorders.  We are pretty active in our local autism community.   Vaxes didn't play a role in DS's autism, but we know parents who do believe that vaxes affected their kids' autism.  It's not for me to say if other parents are right or wrong about that, I can only speak to my child's history.  Since this is often a topic of discussion and controversy in our community, I do try to stay up to date on the issue and read different perspectives on the topic.  But many of the threads on the debate board get so petty and nasty that's hard to take any of the posters seriously.


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#15 of 38 Old 04-02-2013, 03:52 PM
 
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I post because how and when to vax was a difficult topic for me to negotiate, and when people are struggling I like to be able to offer my thoughts, and an explanation for why I did what I did.  I do not have a problem with vaccinations in general.  I am not particularly thrilled with the CDC vax schedule.  However, I understand that their goal is herd immunity, and the schedule is set the way it is to ensure the most amount of people are covered for as many diseases as possible as soon as they can be.  I particularly do not want my kids vaxed for so many diseases at one time, and do not feel that all the vaxes are needed at the early ages.

 

My kids vax schedules are different from each others, and different from mine & my husbands.  We do what works for us, and I think all parents should be able to do what works best for them.  Including following the CDC schedule.  I come to the board for support, and I shun the threads that attack other people.

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#16 of 38 Old 04-12-2013, 04:47 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Hi anj_rn and Lollybrat. Nice to meet you and I was really interested to read your reasons. 

 

I was struck by both of your final sentences: 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by anj_rn View Post
  I come to the board for support, and I shun the threads that attack other people.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lollybrat View Post

  But many of the threads on the debate board get so petty and nasty that's hard to take any of the posters seriously.

 

 I've been musing about them since you posted them and wondering what if anything can be done about it. I post regularly to the debate threads, and I know my comments upset some of the ardent anti-vax posters. But I have to say I genuinely try to post with compassion and respect, and I'm working on it. 

 

I made this thread as an attempt to collect ideas about to stay calm and respond only with the facts when debates start to get nasty: http://www.mothering.com/community/t/1371337/tactics-for-keeping-cool-in-heated-debates

 

How can we change the culture here to be more one of respect for different choices when it comes to the health of our children, while still enabling misinformation and incorrect facts to be discussed and objected to? 


Mother of two living in UK. Daughter (2007) born in USA, son (2010) born here. I'm pro natural birth, midwife care, breastfeeding, co-sleeping, baby wearing and a keen advocate of cloth diapering. I'm a full time working research scientist (physical sciences) and I'm pro-vaccine.

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#17 of 38 Old 04-20-2013, 10:08 PM
 
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I researched and finally decided I felt comfortable with some, but not all.  The USA has more vaccines on the schedule than any place in the entire world, so if I lived somewhere else I might not have to fall in the delayed/selective camp.  


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#18 of 38 Old 05-30-2013, 01:29 AM
 
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I lurk here because I am neither here nor there. One of my children has a medical exemption for vaccinating. The other three thankfully don't (I say thankfully as it means they don't have any serious issues). However, they also remain unvaccinated until the age of 8 and a bit (my eldest just started). It was an age that my dh and I were both comfortable with. We don't fit in with the anti-vaxxers (some IRL see us as betraying the cause). We also don't fit in the pro-vaxxers (they think my remaining two who aren't vaccinated are disease laden creatures).

 

Overall, it's a very grey topic.

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#19 of 38 Old 05-30-2013, 02:01 PM
 
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Well, I actually come here mostly to read the pro-vax posts (that's you prosciencemom!).  My kids aren't vaccinated and I don't vaccinate myself either, but I'm not a hardcore "vaccines are evil" type of person.  I really enjoy the debates and appreciate many of the posts on the pro-vax side.   Also, here, unlike other forums, I won't be called vulgarities for saying that I don't vaccinate.  Well, I might be called something bad lol, but it's frowned upon at least, and not encouraged!

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#20 of 38 Old 06-01-2013, 03:42 AM
 
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Like you prosciencemum I consider myself pretty crunchy when it comes to things like extended nursing and baby wearing, but on this issue I don't fit neatly in with other mums from the natural parenting community. I actually had plans to do postgrad work in immunology a few years ago, however those plans went (happily!) awry when I fell pregnant with DD. The topic is still fascinating to me and I have hopes of continuing study at some point after my daughter starts school (she's 13 months old now). I mainly just read here and rarely post, because it's nice to hear what people have to say and rare that I would have anything to add.
 

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#21 of 38 Old 08-16-2013, 12:42 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Thought I might resurrect/bump up this thread given the discussion about rearranging the forums to rename this board back to "Selective and delayed". Given that I assume it will be made clear that that can include selecting all vaccines and having a zero delay, I'm wondering if the renaming would change why anyone posted here.

Personally I think it'll be a shame to loose the clear welcome message the current name of the board sends for natural Mdc style parents who choose to vaccinate, but I have seen posts by some selective or delayed vaccinators saying they feel excluded by the "Mindful Vax" label. I don't really understand that, but if it is the case I might rather they rename the board than drive people away or to inv.

Anyone else have an opinion? I guess MDC will do what they want anyway, but will it change how you interact with the boards?

If/when the change is made should we bump or (or start a new version of) the old "Mothering Mamas who Mindfully Vaccinate" thread?

Mother of two living in UK. Daughter (2007) born in USA, son (2010) born here. I'm pro natural birth, midwife care, breastfeeding, co-sleeping, baby wearing and a keen advocate of cloth diapering. I'm a full time working research scientist (physical sciences) and I'm pro-vaccine.

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#22 of 38 Old 08-16-2013, 11:20 AM
 
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Yes. The thread needs to exist. I think it is helpful to see that there are other moms her who vaccinate on schedule.
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#23 of 38 Old 08-16-2013, 05:38 PM
 
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If the board follows the spirit of the new guidelines of S&D, I may frequent more often.

 

Personally, I feel that posting threads with links back to blogs that are critical of the choices made by "anti-vaxers" contributes to a vibe of intolerance of parents who are following a S&D schedule, perhaps reluctantly, and who are questioning both the products themselves and the scheduling of them. It's not that hard to understand really that some of us have questions and concerns, yet in the forum we're supposed to turn to for advice and support, some members start threads with links that deride parents for questioning the schedule and choosing to do other than what is mandated. Hmm.

 

My kids are booked for their first dT vaccines next month. As I can't post for support in the INV board and don't want to ask for support on a forum where some folks can't see the reason why some threads are inflammatory, I guess I'll have to post in the main forum and try my luck.


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#24 of 38 Old 08-17-2013, 01:13 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Japonica - I'm sorry you feel that way. I don't think many of us posting here want to deride anyone for their vaccination choices. I hope you'll change your mind and post here for support for your upcoming appointment. I seem to remember some great threads with tips on how to help older children through the process, would be good to resurrect that, or start a new one.

This is not a particularly active board, so I would think engaging and positing more could do a lot to change the vibe you don't like. If people (me I suppose) post a lik you don't like you could not visit it and kindly point out the problem. As I said I don't always notice (assume ignorance not malice and well all get in better!).

According to the US schedule my kids are selectively vaccinated too....
.

Mother of two living in UK. Daughter (2007) born in USA, son (2010) born here. I'm pro natural birth, midwife care, breastfeeding, co-sleeping, baby wearing and a keen advocate of cloth diapering. I'm a full time working research scientist (physical sciences) and I'm pro-vaccine.

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#25 of 38 Old 08-17-2013, 01:21 AM
 
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Thanks for the kind response.

 

I might have to find the older child thread. I'm not so much concerned with what vaccine, timing etc. We've decided and our GP is on board with going off label and using the dT (as Australia doesn't make a childhood DT any longer). It's more of getting an 8 year old and 5 year old to go along with it. The first time, yeah, that might not be a big issue. Trying to get them to return for the second and third in the series, well, that should be interesting when that they'll know what to expect. eyesroll.gif


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#26 of 38 Old 08-30-2013, 09:25 AM
 
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Oh no! They're changing the board? I am SOOOOO bummed if that's true. 

 

It's just not true that folks who vax on schedule don't need support, too. I'm crunchy, and I seek community with other crunchy people, and so within this community I really feel like a minority. I started lurking this board so I could be reassured that I'm not the only farm-dwelling, cloth-diapering, whole-foods-cooking, etc., parent who wants to fully vaccinate on time. 

 

I was feeling unwelcomed by mothering until I poked into this board, and to learn that it's going to be taken away . . . ARGH!

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#27 of 38 Old 08-30-2013, 09:37 AM
 
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Yeah but if we get groups we can keep people out like a mean girls club.  It's a totally awesome idea!!!

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#28 of 38 Old 08-30-2013, 11:04 AM
 
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.....confused?

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#29 of 38 Old 08-30-2013, 11:31 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pepperedmoth View Post
 

.....confused?

 

 

I'm joking.  Turning vaccine issues into groups have been discussed.  Members can kick people from groups or allow people into groups, it's like a club.  See how it can be even more hostile?

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#30 of 38 Old 08-30-2013, 03:55 PM
 
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OH. Yeah, I get what you're saying. Well, what if it stayed forums, one for no vax, one for delayed/selective, and one for full or mostly full? Then we'd have to be nice(er). But everyone could feel supported? Maybe?

 

I dunno, it's just hard to want to vax around here. And I hate the "there are lots of other places for you on the internet" attitude. Yeah? PLEASE show me the forum that's all supportive of minimalism and no plastic and no TV and whole foods and and backyard chickens and multi-generational living and alternative spiritualities AND ALSO supports vaccination. Cuz that'd be awesome. 

 

Unless MDC decides vaccination is just like circumcision or spanking and we should all be kicked out. In that case I guess it'd be reasonable to take away the board. Sigh. 

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