MMRV vs MMR and Varivax separately ??? - Mothering Forums
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
#1 of 21 Old 06-26-2013, 12:23 PM - Thread Starter
 
4loves's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: North Shore, Massachusetts
Posts: 5
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

Hi there,


Just took my 5 year old to her kindergarten checkup today and have come home with too many ? buzzing around in my head.  We spread out our vaxes the first 2 years with all my 4 kids.  My oldest I did allow to have all 4 required kindergarten shots (DTaP, polio, MMR and Varicella) but now I don't feel comfortable giving my 5 year old all of them at once.  I went into the appointment just wanting DTaP and Varicella, getting polio later this summer and then having blood titres drawn for MMR (as I have read that 90% of kids are actually immune after the first MMR shot which she received at 2).

 

My Pedi's nurse came in and said she was only due to get 3 shots (this is before I explained what I wanted to do, was waiting to talk to dr) - DTaP, polio and MMRV.  I said I did not feel comfortable having the MMRV combined and wanted to separate them anyways and also the blood titre for MMR anyways (boy was I given a look!!! God forbid I actually know what I want put into my child and when!!)  The nurse said that if I did the MMR and Varivax together today it would be the same thing as the one shot but in my heart I didn't feel good so I said no :)

 

So dr comes in later and I said again I want to do 2 shots only today and get blood titres for MMR and then catch up polio shot at end of summer. Dr says she doesn't do blood titres and that my daughter needed the MMR booster regardless... also she said that as I was okay with just the varicella vaccine today that I now had to wait 4-6 weeks (she said preferably 6 weeks) for the MMR as MMR and Varivax are both live viruses.  So my daughter got DTap and Varivax and now have to schedule appt later on.

 

So my ???? - how come she could have gotten 2 live vaccines in one day if when you spread them out they have to be 4-6 weeks apart.  And what about blood titres for MMR?? Did I completely misread that 90% of kids are immune after first shot? My husband is at his dr's today for his own checkup and on his way out have actually asked him to ask if my daughter can get titres drawn there (don't mind paying out of pocket) as my Pedi's office seems to be offended..

 

Also, any info known on ProQuad (MMRV) vs just MMR II and Varivax??

 

Agghhh.... stress ;)

4loves is offline  
#2 of 21 Old 06-26-2013, 02:34 PM
 
kathymuggle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,893
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 100 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4loves View Post

 

 

 Did I completely misread that 90% of kids are immune after first shot?

 

You did not read that wrong. I suspect the ped. office is just being a PITA as they do not like people going off the prescribed path.  

 

 

"Why is a second dose of MMR necessary?
space1.gif

Between 2% and 5% of people do not develop measles immunity after the first dose of vaccine. This occurs for a variety of reasons. The second dose is to provide another chance to develop measles immunity for people who did not respond to the first dose."

 

http://www.immunize.org/askexperts/experts_mmr.asp

 

You could print this and give it to them as justification for drawing titres orngtongue.gif (not that you need justification!)  


There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

Book and herb loving mama to 1 preteen and 2 teens (when did that happen?).  We travel, go to school, homeschool, live rurally, eat our veggies, spend too much time...

kathymuggle is online now  
#3 of 21 Old 06-26-2013, 02:40 PM
 
JenVose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 185
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

I had not yet heard that the MMR was routinely combined with the Varicella vaccination. I will be looking closely into my daughter's immunization records, I intentionally DO NOT want her to receive Varicella and will be very displeased if the combo vaccine was given, as the office she was seeing at the time seems somewhat sketchy to me on their practices. She will not be seeing the same office in the future.

 

I haven't seen any information at age 5 vs. at age 2 on the MMR, but I do know that a significant portion of women (I believe something like 70-percent), are found not to be immune by child-bearing years even after being fully immunized as children. I think this is more of an issue with women than with men.

 

Isn't it irritating that the medical community refuses to respect anyone who thinks for themselves?

JenVose is offline  
#4 of 21 Old 06-26-2013, 06:58 PM
 
anj_rn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Land of Spare Oom
Posts: 1,185
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)

Out ped won't give the combo of MMR and varicella as it has been linked to increase chance of seizures.  I would not ever get them as a combo.  even though 90% of children have immunity to measles after one dose, there is evidence that the immunity does not last into adulthood.  The Booster used to be given at age 1 or 14 before the CDC redid the schedule to consolidate the ages when vaxes are required.  The titers for all 3 diseases are costly, so most people just vax for cost effectiveness.

 

The 2nd MMR is one of our long term delays for DD.


Wife to M , Mommy to DS aka Captain Obvious  (06/06) and DD aka Lissalot  (03/09, anoxic brain injury)
anj_rn is offline  
#5 of 21 Old 07-02-2013, 03:06 AM
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,954
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The titers aren't that expensive and you can have the ped order them. If she refuses she's just being mean and unprofessional. She can order them at any lab quest!
That being said we do titers too. One can simply repeat them at 12 and then for college. The military did mmr titers for dh instead of giving him a booster (mmr at 18 months and some 30 years later still immune).
nia82 is offline  
#6 of 21 Old 07-10-2013, 03:55 PM
 
erigeron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,345
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

It's okay to give two live virus vaccines at the same time (bear in mind the MMR is three live virus vaccines in one) but if you're going to separate them in time you want it to be by several weeks to let the immune system finish dealing with one before it starts dealing with the other. If it starts all three at the same time it can work on all of them at the same rate. If that makes sense. There is decreased immunity to the first vaccine if the second follows it too closely. 

 

I didn't do MMRV. I split them up. Not sure what I'll do when she gets to kindergarten age. 


WOHM to a girl jog.gif (6-11) and a new baby boy stork-boy.gif (2-14) and adjusting to the full-time life and husband being a SAHD. 
erigeron is offline  
#7 of 21 Old 07-10-2013, 09:53 PM
 
ma2two's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,465
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)

Yes, you did misread that 90% of kids are immune after the first MMR. It's actually 95-98%. :-)

http://www.state.nj.us/health/cd/documents/antibody_titer_law.pdf

 

I would suggest asking one more time for a titer test, and if you doctor refuses, find a new doctor. It's just a checkbox she needs to mark on a lab order form. She's just being mean if she refuses. Tell her you won't complain to her if insurance doesn't pay for it. They probably will, but that may be one of her concerns.

 

"Can MMR be given on the same day as other live virus vaccines (e.g., varicella)?
space1.gif

Yes. However, if two live vaccines (e.g., MMR, varicella, and LAIV) are not administered on the same day, they should be separated by an interval of at least 28 days."

http://www.immunize.org/askexperts/experts_mmr.asp

 

ProQuad has a higher rate of seizures compared to separate MMR and Varivax.

ma2two is offline  
#8 of 21 Old 07-11-2013, 03:17 PM
 
prosciencemum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,707
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)

It is my opinon that an unnecessary second MMR shot is less invasive and possibly even carries less risk than a titer test. Especially given that in 2-5% of random titer tests the test would show a second MMR is still indicated, so then the kid needs that after having blood drawn. But then I hate to watch my kids get needles, and blood draws are so much worse than quick injections.

 

Just throwing that out there as a counter opinion to titer tests being a good idea. :) 


Mother of two living in UK. Daughter (2007) born in USA, son (2010) born here. I'm pro natural birth, midwife care, breastfeeding, co-sleeping, baby wearing and a keen advocate of cloth diapering. I'm a full time working research scientist (physical sciences) and I'm pro-vaccine.

prosciencemum is online now  
#9 of 21 Old 07-11-2013, 03:27 PM
 
ma2two's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,465
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by prosciencemum View Post

It is my opinon that an unnecessary second MMR shot is less invasive and possibly even carries less risk than a titer test.

 

Do you mean that you think in general, a blood draw is more risky than the MMR vaccine?

ma2two is offline  
#10 of 21 Old 07-11-2013, 03:56 PM
 
prosciencemum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,707
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)

I have not researched the risks of blood draws - but it's a medical procedure, so I'm sure it carries some risk.


Mother of two living in UK. Daughter (2007) born in USA, son (2010) born here. I'm pro natural birth, midwife care, breastfeeding, co-sleeping, baby wearing and a keen advocate of cloth diapering. I'm a full time working research scientist (physical sciences) and I'm pro-vaccine.

prosciencemum is online now  
#11 of 21 Old 07-11-2013, 04:20 PM
 
Katie8681's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Northern Cali
Posts: 676
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by prosciencemum View Post

I have not researched the risks of blood draws - but it's a medical procedure, so I'm sure it carries some risk.

Redness and tenderness at the site, fussiness, and syncope! Sounds familiar...

At home amongst the redwoods treehugger.gif with my husband and my son, born 7/5/11 familybed1.gif  Instant CNM, just add caffix.gif !

Katie8681 is offline  
#12 of 21 Old 07-11-2013, 10:55 PM
 
Jennyanydots's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,380
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by prosciencemum View Post

It is my opinon that an unnecessary second MMR shot is less invasive and possibly even carries less risk than a titer test. Especially given that in 2-5% of random titer tests the test would show a second MMR is still indicated, so then the kid needs that after having blood drawn. But then I hate to watch my kids get needles, and blood draws are so much worse than quick injections.

Just throwing that out there as a counter opinion to titer tests being a good idea. smile.gif 
It strikes me as bizarre and almost maliciously unethical to advise a questioning parent that a blood draw for testing purposes is more dangerous than an injected drug with known side effects. How do you sleep at night?
Taximom5 likes this.

chicken3.gif mama to two teens and two tots partners.gif madly in love with DP guitar.gif

Jennyanydots is offline  
#13 of 21 Old 07-11-2013, 11:15 PM
 
ma2two's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,465
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)

Not to debate, as this is a support board, but to give information, I wanted to point out that New Jersey passed a law that parents should be informed of the option of titer testing instead of the second MMR. http://www.state.nj.us/health/cd/documents/antibody_titer_law.pdf

 

The people who lobbied for the New Jersey law had a daughter die at age 5, from encephalopathy 7 days after getting a 2nd dose of MMR. 

http://hopefromholly.com/blog/our-purpose/

Encephalopathy 5-15 days after the MMR is a table injury with the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program, meaning it is presumed to be caused by the vaccine unless there is proof otherwise. http://www.hrsa.gov/vaccinecompensation/vaccinetable.html

Taximom5 and kathymuggle like this.
ma2two is offline  
#14 of 21 Old 07-11-2013, 11:48 PM
 
prosciencemum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,707
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katie8681 View Post

Redness and tenderness at the site, fussiness, and syncope! Sounds familiar...

Yep. That was the point I was making.

Mother of two living in UK. Daughter (2007) born in USA, son (2010) born here. I'm pro natural birth, midwife care, breastfeeding, co-sleeping, baby wearing and a keen advocate of cloth diapering. I'm a full time working research scientist (physical sciences) and I'm pro-vaccine.

prosciencemum is online now  
#15 of 21 Old 07-11-2013, 11:57 PM
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,954
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
A blood draw certainly has not the side effects of mmr. Worst case a blue arm. Claiming a blood draw is worse than a second dose of mmr is rather unfounded.
My daughter had a fever, rash and weeklong swollen lymph nodes following the mmr. Whenever we took blood she had a red little dot for one day. And yes, we draw blood at every yearly checkup. Cbc you know. Makes sense. So we just get some extra for titers.
nia82 is offline  
#16 of 21 Old 07-19-2013, 04:16 PM - Thread Starter
 
4loves's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: North Shore, Massachusetts
Posts: 5
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

Thank you for all the replies! My husband and I have decided to switch practices.  His and mine family practitioner actually always does a blood titer before giving the 5 year MMR!!! What a shock, huh??? I find that so interesting that my pediatrician's office was so resistant to just drawing blood to check for immunity but a family doctor said he always does - gives pause for thought :) Was a little concerned about switching to a family doctor versus just a pediatrician but I am crossing fingers it goes well - does anyone else see a family practitioner?

 

Our pediatrician who has always been really supportive of my 4 monkeys being on a very spread out schedule happens to be moving to another state so this has also made the decision a little easier.  I figured my kids had to get used to a new doctor regardless so this also helped with my decision.

 

Thank you to ma2two who pointed out the NJ law above - when I mentioned this to several people they were quite surprised.  Again, it really makes me pause for a moment and wonder about this whole vaccine thing.  Wish I wasn't so exhausted with my 4 kiddos (all 7 and under) to research more. 

 

Thanks again and many blessings :)

4loves is offline  
#17 of 21 Old 07-19-2013, 06:16 PM
 
kathymuggle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,893
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 100 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4loves View Post

Thank you for all the replies! My husband and I have decided to switch practices.  His and mine family practitioner actually always does a blood titer before giving the 5 year MMR!!! What a shock, huh??? I find that so interesting that my pediatrician's office was so resistant to just drawing blood to check for immunity but a family doctor said he always does - gives pause for thought :) Was a little concerned about switching to a family doctor versus just a pediatrician but I am crossing fingers it goes well - does anyone else see a family practitioner?

 

 

I have used family doctors all along.  I think they are fine if your kids are in good health. My 2 cents.

 

Some people (according to a thread in INV)  find GPs or family doctors a little easier to deal with if you are selective/delayed/non-vax than pediatricians. 


There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

Book and herb loving mama to 1 preteen and 2 teens (when did that happen?).  We travel, go to school, homeschool, live rurally, eat our veggies, spend too much time...

kathymuggle is online now  
#18 of 21 Old 07-19-2013, 07:44 PM
 
erigeron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,345
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

My entire family needed primary care at the point when I picked our doctor, and I was too lazy to find both an internist and a pediatrician, so we all see a family practice doctor. I think if you have a kid who has chronic medical issues a pediatrician might be a better choice, but for a healthy kid I don't see any reason not to use an FP doctor. We have done just fine. 


WOHM to a girl jog.gif (6-11) and a new baby boy stork-boy.gif (2-14) and adjusting to the full-time life and husband being a SAHD. 
erigeron is offline  
#19 of 21 Old 07-19-2013, 09:00 PM
 
ma2two's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,465
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4loves View Post

Was a little concerned about switching to a family doctor versus just a pediatrician but I am crossing fingers it goes well - does anyone else see a family practitioner?

 

My kids see a family practice doctor. Others here mentioned a family practice doctor would be fine for a healthy child, but I think a family practice doctor would also be fine for a child with medical issues.  If a specialist was needed, I think a family practice doctor would refer to a pediatric specialist, (not a general pediatrician), just as a pediatrician would refer to a pediatric specialist, as well.

ma2two is offline  
#20 of 21 Old 07-19-2013, 11:49 PM
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,954
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The kids had a fp until now. They were better than the air force pediatricians who were careless, rude, anti breastfeeding, frowned upon their natural births (in hospital and birthing center), pushed rice cereal and solids at 4 months and so on. The fp was supportive, interested, not pushy about feeding choices and laid back about vax decisions. We just moved to a big metro area so we found a holistic practice for the kids. I might switch us all to a fp practice once I find one that tolerates that parents choose if and how their kids are vaccinated.
nia82 is offline  
#21 of 21 Old 07-20-2013, 10:14 AM
 
prosciencemum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,707
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
In the UK it's standard practise for kids to see GPs or health visitors for routine stuff. Paediatricians are only for referrals. Sure it will be fine.

Mother of two living in UK. Daughter (2007) born in USA, son (2010) born here. I'm pro natural birth, midwife care, breastfeeding, co-sleeping, baby wearing and a keen advocate of cloth diapering. I'm a full time working research scientist (physical sciences) and I'm pro-vaccine.

prosciencemum is online now  
Reply

Tags
Selective Vaccination

Quick Reply
Message:
Drag and Drop File Upload
Drag files here to attach!
Upload Progress: 0
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Mothering Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off