Flu shots for me and little one - Mothering Forums
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
#1 of 17 Old 08-23-2013, 04:37 PM - Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,345
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

We are a pretty pro-flu-shot family. I work in health care and though my employer doesn't mandate the shot, I do get it every year. My husband is not in any risk group but gets the shot because he doesn't want to get the flu. Neither of us have ever had any problems with the shot (excluding minor stuff like soreness lasting a few days), and we haven't gotten the flu either. 

 

But up until now I have skipped it for our daughter (who turned 2 in June) because the Cochrane reviews said there was no efficacy greater than placebo in kids under 2. 

 

Also this year I will be pregnant for most of flu season. I'm due at the beginning of February. The year I had my daughter, I got the shot before I got pregnant with her. 

 

I'm interested in information that anyone might have about adverse effects of the flu shot in pregnant women, and also about efficacy in young children. 

 

I realize there are a lot of places to look for this information but I figured I'd start here for anything that someone might have at their fingertips. Plus, I no longer have institutional access to the Cochrane reviews. bawling.gif

erigeron is online now  
#2 of 17 Old 08-23-2013, 09:42 PM
 
ma2two's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,465
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)

You've probably already read the package inserts, but just in case you haven't and you're interested, here they are.

http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccines/Vaccines/ApprovedProducts/ucm093833.htm

 

Some flu shots are Pregnancy Category B, and some are Pregnancy Category C.

 

If you do decide to get vaccinated during pregnancy, of course you should choose a thimerosal free shot.

ma2two is offline  
#3 of 17 Old 08-23-2013, 09:51 PM
 
MeepyCat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 3,675
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
I'm a little more worried about adverse effects of the flu, personally. Being sick while pregnant is extra miserable, high fevers can be harmful to the baby, and if flu develops into pneumonia, it's majorly dangerous for you.

I just wish the shot was more effective.
Katie8681 likes this.
MeepyCat is offline  
#4 of 17 Old 08-24-2013, 11:57 AM
 
prosciencemum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,711
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 63 Post(s)
I don't normally get the flu shot, but I got it during both pregnancies out if concern over the increased risks from flu when pregnant.

I didn't realize Cohcrane reviews were behind a Paywall. Must have always accessed them on my computer at work. That's too bad they're not open access as I think they're a fantastic resource for these kinds of questions.

Mother of two living in UK. Daughter (2007) born in USA, son (2010) born here. I'm pro natural birth, midwife care, breastfeeding, co-sleeping, baby wearing and a keen advocate of cloth diapering. I'm a full time working research scientist (physical sciences) and I'm pro-vaccine.

prosciencemum is online now  
#5 of 17 Old 08-24-2013, 12:04 PM
 
Alenushka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: CA
Posts: 1,893
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Alenushka is offline  
#6 of 17 Old 08-24-2013, 12:58 PM - Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,345
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

The package inserts aren't that useful for human data. It's mostly rats and rabbits and so forth, at least in the 2 I checked. 

 

I found the Norwegian study that is mentioned in that NYT post. http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1207210#t=article

 

Sets my mind at ease about miscarriage risks. 

 

But the other part I wonder (which I guess I could wonder for any vaccine for a young child as well, but seems like more of an issue while the fetus is still developing at such a rapid rate) is what the longer-term effects are of getting the vaccine at x or y point during fetal development. The idea of vaccinating pregnant women at all is a fairly new one, I think. 

 

So it seems like I have a known--I can calculate my risk of getting the flu with or without the shot, as well as the risks to the fetus associated with getting the flu--but an unknown to balance it against--what effect it'll have on the fetus long-term (a lot, a little, none, likely, unlikely?) It can't be a big effect in a very large portion of the population, or we would have already seen it, but I wouldn't conclude that it's zero either. 

 

Even in the so-called H1N1 "pandemic", only 2% of the unvaccinated women in Norway got the flu (at least, as confirmed by their doctors). Haven't looked up US rates yet. Vaccines reduced the risk of contracting the flu by 2/3, but it sounds a lot more impressive to say "vaccines reduced the risk of contracting the flu by 70%" than "vaccines reduced the risk of contracting the flu from 2% to 0.6%". 

 

I wonder the same thing in re this brand-new recommendation to get the Tdap shot during pregnancy. I haven't even started looking at that one yet. 

 

Also I work in a job where people sneeze into their hands and hand me things. All day. I should buy stock in Purell. 

 

Maybe I'll split the difference, and push it off until the third trimester when the baby's mostly just putting on weight and learning to breathe better. 

 

It bums me out. I do wish there was better data on the short- and long-term adverse effects from vaccines, as well as who's at risk of getting said adverse effects. 

erigeron is online now  
#7 of 17 Old 08-24-2013, 03:27 PM
 
Turquesa's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,050
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)
OK, you know that I vaccinate on a conservatively selective schedule, so take my information FWIW and keep my bias in mind. Here is the ACIP report from the CDC on vaccination during pregnancy. http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/committee/downloads/preg-principles-2008.pdf Here is why I would be ansy about getting vaccinated with anything during pregnancy. (Forgive my lack of a functioning quote feature). Page 1: "These suggestions, while similar to the process generally followed by workgroups, focus specifically on issues related to pregnancy, breastfeeding and decision making in the absence of a strong evidence-base." Page 7: " Concerns about vaccination of pregnant women i. Lack of data to make evidence-based decisions 1. No or limited well-controlled trials to establish efficacy of vaccines in pregnant women or their offspring 2. No or limited post-licensure studies of efficacy or safety (eg, from registries, VAERS, Vaccine Safety Datalink) 3. No or limited animal data 4. No or limited data on burden of illness/" According to the feeder page for this report, ( http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/committee/guidance/rec-vac-preg.html ), the enclosed information is relevant today, even though the report itself was released in 2008. The bottom line is that influenza vaccination for pregnant women remains an experimental endeavor. You may consent and come out OK, and it's likely that most pregnant women do. But I *personally* tend to exercise more caution. Good luck with your decision!

In God we trust; all others must show data. selectivevax.gifsurf.gifteapot2.GIFintactivist.gif
Turquesa is offline  
#8 of 17 Old 08-24-2013, 03:29 PM
 
Turquesa's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,050
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)
As an aside, I hope that the good people at Cochrane tackle this issue of vaccination during pregnancy. It really is an important one!

In God we trust; all others must show data. selectivevax.gifsurf.gifteapot2.GIFintactivist.gif
Turquesa is offline  
#9 of 17 Old 08-24-2013, 06:13 PM - Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,345
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turquesa View Post

The bottom line is that influenza vaccination for pregnant women remains an experimental endeavor. You may consent and come out OK, and it's likely that most pregnant women do. But I *personally* tend to exercise more caution. Good luck with your decision!

Yeah, exactly... it's experimental. Ugh. 

 

I'll look at the rest of those links when I have a little more time, but I came back to this thread because I remembered one more complicating factor: friends who we see frequently have a former preemie who was born almost 3 months early, adjusted age now 1 1/2 months, and due to her lung problems she is confined to the house until flu season is over. I'd like to keep visiting my friends (since they can't go out much now), and while I mentioned it to the mom and she didn't say anything one way or the other about whether I should get a flu shot, I keep the safety of this little one in mind as well (probably even more so than my patients at work because I'll be spending more time in contact with her; contact is pretty limited/casual in my job). My friend said she got the flu vaccine while pregnant, but then added that she's not exactly the poster child for a great pregnancy outcome. eyesroll.gif Not that I think the flu shot probably had much to do with their outcome one way or the other. 

erigeron is online now  
#10 of 17 Old 08-24-2013, 08:08 PM
 
katelove's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 3,786
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
I had a look at Cochrane and could only find flu vax for healthy adults and flu vax for healthy kids plus the elderly/asthma/cystic fibrosis ones of course.

I'm happy to post the links of you want them but I'm guessing you've seen them already. I had a quick glance through both and couldn't see pregnancy mentioned at all.

Mother of two spectacular girls, born mid-2010 and late 2012  mdcblog5.gif

katelove is online now  
#11 of 17 Old 08-25-2013, 11:01 AM
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,954
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

I don't have the links handy right now, but Flumist was shown to be more effective in toddlers (24 months and older) than the injected version plus I'm much more in favor personally of Flumist as it follows the natural infection route (aka not IM!) and it doesn't cause a sore injection side and is definitely thimerosal free. We opt to not vax for the flu whatsoever. I might consider it for me as I can't shake my underweight and when I had B flu this year I was miserable for 4 days and could barely take care of the kids. The kids were fine and not sick for a long time at all - they have a great immune system, but me weighing so little makes me kind of part of a risk group. Long story short, I might look into Flumist for me this winter. If I wanted the kids to get a flu shot, it would be the mist.

Downside to the mist is getting sick from it - DH had to get it when he was military and he got a minor cold for 2-5 days (stuffy nose, headache, ear ache). Usually 1/3 of his squadron was down for 3-5 days following Flumist. This is to be kept in mind not to administer it right before school starts or a trip is planned - your child might be one of those people who get the flu like symptoms. It's a live virus vaccine as you might know.
 

nia82 is offline  
#12 of 17 Old 08-26-2013, 06:35 PM
 
anj_rn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Land of Spare Oom
Posts: 1,185
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)

I am allergic to the components of the flu shot,so I can not get it.  However, my midwife strongly recommends it since you can run a high fever with the flu which can cause a whole host of problems in pregnancy.  She does not recommend any other vaccines during pregnancy.  However, will recommend varicella and MMR titers as well as a TDaP (if you have not had it) BEFORE TTC.  I am a nurse, so there was always frequent exposure when I was pregnant, so I got the TDap, but the rest of my titers were fine.

 

My DH & both of my kids get their flu shots every year.  My DD has a trach, so is very susceptible.  The flu shot is actually very effective, the problem is predicting which starins of flu will be going around and protecting against them.  It is a guessing game, an educated guessing game, but a guessing game none the less.


Wife to M , Mommy to DS aka Captain Obvious  (06/06) and DD aka Lissalot  (03/09, anoxic brain injury)
anj_rn is offline  
#13 of 17 Old 08-26-2013, 07:53 PM - Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,345
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

Anj_rn, have you seen the new Flucelvax? Not sure what components you are allergic to, but that one is grown in mammalian cells instead of eggs, so the allergens are different. 

 

I got Tdap a little over 2 years ago so I would assume my titers are okay for that, and I think they draw the MMR titers etc. at the first prenatal visit. 

 

nia82, thanks for the tip on the nasal vaccine. I'll look into the efficacy for kids. 

erigeron is online now  
#14 of 17 Old 08-29-2013, 05:25 PM
 
anj_rn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Land of Spare Oom
Posts: 1,185
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by erigeron View Post
 

Anj_rn, have you seen the new Flucelvax? Not sure what components you are allergic to, but that one is grown in mammalian cells instead of eggs, so the allergens are different. 

 

 

I am actually allergic to the Neomycin base, but I am they 0.0001% of the population to it, so it is a fairly common base.


Wife to M , Mommy to DS aka Captain Obvious  (06/06) and DD aka Lissalot  (03/09, anoxic brain injury)
anj_rn is offline  
#15 of 17 Old 09-09-2013, 12:25 PM
 
kungfumoose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Kansas
Posts: 368
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I actually came here to ask for info on safety during pregnancy too.
I never saw a reason for the flu vaccine until 2 years ago when I was pregnant with my youngest daughter. I got the flu. It was bad, really really bad. I ended up in the hospital, and her heart rate was way too high. They thought we were going to lose her. We made it through with the help of some very scary antiviral medicine, but I later developed pneumonia, and then bacterial strep throat. It was a bad month. There was a few times times I really thought I was going to lose my little girl.
I have been told I could be more susceptible to getting the flu because I get Hyperemesis Gravidarum (HG) during pregnancy (I've had it all four pregnancies) but really any pregnant woman could get that sick. From what I understand, the elderly, infants, and pregnant women are the most susceptible to serious complications of flu.
I decided I was going to get the flu shot the next time I was pregnant during flu season. I am now 17 weeks pregnant, and flu season is coming up. I still have doubts, but I think any vaccine risks outweigh the risk of what my daughter and I went through, and the very serious risks of the antiviral medicine I took.

I just wish there was more info. It would be nice to be more informed before making this decision.
In the absence of any more info though, I think this is the right thing to do for me. smile.gif
MichelleZB likes this.
kungfumoose is offline  
#16 of 17 Old 09-10-2013, 12:53 PM
 
prosciencemum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,711
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 63 Post(s)

kungfumoose - you're amazing to have gone through those pregnancies with so many problems and be willing to do it all again! 

 

Just to say for anecdote's sake that I got the flu vaccine during both pregnancies, and my kids are both perfect - 3 and 6 now, and no autoimmune issues, not VPDs, and generally very healthy. I'm confident if you get the shot it'll all work out fine. :) 


Mother of two living in UK. Daughter (2007) born in USA, son (2010) born here. I'm pro natural birth, midwife care, breastfeeding, co-sleeping, baby wearing and a keen advocate of cloth diapering. I'm a full time working research scientist (physical sciences) and I'm pro-vaccine.

prosciencemum is online now  
#17 of 17 Old 09-15-2013, 09:33 AM
 
MichelleZB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 989
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)

I got the flu shot while pregnant, too! If you do get the flu while pregnant, it can be really really serious, like Kungfumoose's experience. The flu shot doesn't guarantee you won't get the flu, but it can help.

MichelleZB is offline  
Reply

Tags
Selective Vaccination

Quick Reply
Message:
Drag and Drop File Upload
Drag files here to attach!
Upload Progress: 0
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Mothering Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off