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#1 of 10 Old 06-08-2014, 08:26 AM - Thread Starter
 
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2 kids: another titers question

The quick question since this turned out to be a ramble:

Does it make any sense at all to vax both girls for MMR if the titers for my oldest turns out to be "low" (and not get titers for the youngest)?

Planning on a titers test for measles (and CP, since girls had one CP vax) for my oldest next month when we can get the vax if low immunity and have a "couch day" in case they she feels bad. Choosing that even though that would mean 2 needles.

I was thinking that if dd1's immunity is low and I choose to vax, that I should just vax dd2 as well. If the test is "high" I would wait until dd2 is 9 or at the "age of reason" where she can be convinced with words that she can handle this and not overwhelmed by memories and emotions.

DD2 has had mixed results with needles in the past. She did well for her dental work recently, but before that a vagal response to an antibiotic shot (could have been the Lidocaine in the shot) sent her to the ER, where she vomited getting a blood draw (testing for sepsis--a fast-moving skin infection started this-- vomiting could have been from the high heart rate/low pressure).

So I have mixed feelings about getting another blood draw for dd2 for titers at this point. I could power through and put on my Strong Mama face, but as much progress as both girls have made in regards to shots and other medical procedures in the last few years (dd1 has made huge progress-- went "under" to get 4 teeth pulled, had an orthodontist prodding around in her mouth without me in the room, submitted willingly to another scratch test--you get the idea) I still feel hesitant with a blood draw for dd2. Yes, I feel confident that dd1 will handle this and I feel comfortable being just a bit pushy on the issue. But not feeling so confident with dd2.

I don't know if I feel comfortable just vaxxing my older daughter, and not sure if dd2 is ready for a blood draw.

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#2 of 10 Old 06-08-2014, 08:52 AM
 
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I think it is pretty unlikely DD2, who has not been vaxxed for MMR (correct?) will shows titres to it as mealses, mumps and rubella are pretty rare, so I would just vax for it if you have decided she need MMR.

Likewise, I would not bother with a titre test for DD1, either, for MMR. She has had 1 shot - correct? One shot is supposed to "catch" 95% percent of the population. The math is on your side that she is one of the 95%.

Chicken pox is different. Figure out how effective one shot of varicella is. It might be pretty high, in which case no titres or shot needed, IMHO.

Lots of people get chicken pox without even knowing it. (1/7, IIRC).

I would do titres on a child I was considerring a chicken pox vaccine for, if they were unvaxxed, never had the disease or if the effectiveness of one shot was low. I would not bother with a CP vaccine period, but putting on my more moderate hat - I would not bother with a CP vaccine until around 12 or so. It is pretty darn mild in the vast majority of school age children and immunity acquired from the wild virus is more likely to last well into adulthood than vaccine acquired immunity.

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#3 of 10 Old 06-08-2014, 09:25 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post
I think it is pretty unlikely DD2, who has not been vaxxed for MMR (correct?) will shows titres to it as mealses, mumps and rubella are pretty rare, so I would just vax for it if you have decided she need MMR.

Likewise, I would not bother with a titre test for DD1, either, for MMR. She has had 1 shot - correct? One shot is supposed to "catch" 95% percent of the population. The math is on your side that she is one of the 95%.
Both have had one MMR shot. Both have had one CP shot, before I reconsidered it (originally vaxxed because concern for complications and nephew was hospitalized with pneumonia during his CP bout) but honestly, I have seen and heard *nothing* about local CP, and I'm not the type to go seek it out, so we might have ended up here (no CP) even without vaxxing.

For some reason, the 95% figure is not easing my concerns, though I'm not sure why. So, you feel that if I do any testing at all, possibly for CP at a later date. I'm wanting to address MMR before adolescence. It looks like the vax has slightly higher side effects for adolescent girls?

I still don't know what to do with this information, honestly.

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#4 of 10 Old 06-08-2014, 09:38 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Here's what would make me comfortable:

Information on who measles outbreaks affected. We had a pertussis outbreak recently here that affected fully vaxxed kids. So, even if we had been up-tp-date, it might not have had an impact on us. I would also feel comfortable with where we are if any information showed that "only" unvaxxed people were affected also.

What would make me uncomfortable is if people who were only partially vaxxed were affected far more than the fully up-to-date.

I'm not sure if we've had enough measles outbreaks to assess that?

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#5 of 10 Old 06-08-2014, 11:40 AM
 
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I'm wanting to address MMR before adolescence. It looks like the vax has slightly higher side effects for adolescent girls?
It does have higher side effects for adolescent and adult females - arthritis type reactions.

If you are not comfortable with the 95% thing, and are determined to vaccinate if titres are low, then you should titre. Yes, it might mean an extra blood draw, but vaccines do have some side effects…why risk it if you do not have to? If you are concerned about sparing your children extra pokes (and I get that!…I also know they have a history of really disliking/fearing such things) you do not have to do the titre tests and vaccines back to back. there is not a huge amount of riskin waiting. I know other disagree - but the CDC stats do not point to great risks in waiting. You could titre, with the intention of vaccinating 6 months later, for example. I know I insist on spreading out unpleasant medical stuff (example: cavities) unless there is a huge risk to waiting - which there isn't with MMR or varicella.
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There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

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#6 of 10 Old 06-08-2014, 11:47 AM
 
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"One dose of varicella vaccine was 84.5% effective (median; range, 44%–100%) in preventing all varicella and 100% effective (mean and median) in preventing severe varicella."

http://jid.oxfordjournals.org/conten...ent_2/S82.long

I gotta admit - I eyeball roll at the 100%…but whatever, lol.

One dose would absolutely be enough for me where varicella is concerned.

I will also add that it seems 2 doses of varicella are given more to prevent outbreaks (it is a fairly contagious disease) rather than for indidivual protection. To quote the above article (and I have read this somewhere else as well):

"Although 1 dose of varicella vaccine has provided excellent protection, a higher degree of effectiveness is needed in order to interrupt transmission and to prevent outbreaks in settings with high contact rates."

There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

Book and herb loving mama to 1 preteen and 2 teens (when did that happen?).  We travel, go to school, homeschool, live rurally, eat our veggies, spend too much time...

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#7 of 10 Old 06-08-2014, 08:21 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks for the info on CP. I guess I'm not too worried about that.

Still deciding if I am worried about that 95% for measles. Thinking.

ETA: Leaning towards feeling like one is enough.

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Last edited by SweetSilver; 06-08-2014 at 08:27 PM.
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#8 of 10 Old 06-15-2014, 07:08 AM
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Thanks for the info on CP. I guess I'm not too worried about that.

Still deciding if I am worried about that 95% for measles. Thinking.

ETA: Leaning towards feeling like one is enough.
Don't know if this will help or not. Explaining my history with vaccines and mindset won't, but my own concern lies with if the girls were exposed to an illness while they are pregnant. Now, most likely, we have quite a few years before they are pregnant. For myself, my Rubella titers were very low before I got pg with dd1 and I had a booster shot. I had my titers checked because we were having fertility issues and they decided to check titers too. I can't expect my kids to say, hmm, I might decide to get pg, lets check titers. So, my kids know that their titers will be checked in late high school and we will decide what to do based on the results. I may be wrong, but I understand CP to be problematic during pg. My kids do have one dose of that vaccine from infancy, but they are not in compliance anymore because I have held off on the second round.

Amy

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#9 of 10 Old 06-15-2014, 07:55 AM - Thread Starter
 
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My kids do have one dose of that vaccine from infancy, but they are not in compliance anymore because I have held off on the second round.

Amy
That's where we are as well.

A titer's test would be a relatively easy way to check, though I'm still stubbornly on the fence. Our office is nonvax friendly, and the new nurse practitioner is nice, but like other practitioners, she's not used to people questioning the status quo, or the complete opposite. She's not used to the middle ground and is convinced a test would be low, therefore I should just vaccinate. She's essentially saying it's low immunity across the board that led to the booster being required, not having immunity for X % and missing others. She sounded so confident I asked her if she had any patients take the titers test here in the office (I thought that's what she meant) but she said "no". So, really, she doesn't know.

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#10 of 10 Old 06-15-2014, 08:49 AM
 
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I may be wrong, but I understand CP to be problematic during pg. My kids do have one dose of that vaccine from infancy, but they are not in compliance anymore because I have held off on the second round.

Amy
It is. I know a woman whose unborn baby (now a young severely disabled adult) was affected by chicken pox during pregnancy. Now, this is an anecdote, and people need to take those with a grain of salt (how common is this, for example, what do the stats say?) but I absolutely will suggest my daughters get their titres checked pre-pregnancy. I know my oldest daughter had CP - but she was under one, so the immunity might not be as strong as others, and I *think* my youngest had CP. I also need to check out how good titres are at determining immunity. I did a post on that a few weeks ago that went nowhere (sadly and sigh).

There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

Book and herb loving mama to 1 preteen and 2 teens (when did that happen?).  We travel, go to school, homeschool, live rurally, eat our veggies, spend too much time...


Last edited by kathymuggle; 06-15-2014 at 04:10 PM.
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