Girls Gone ... Mild: Teens Encouraged to Cover Up - Page 2 - Mothering Forums
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#31 of 42 Old 12-04-2009, 10:41 AM
 
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Originally Posted by mbm View Post
I spent my teens in oversized flannel shirts, leggings and Timberland boots because that was the style at the time
Me too except I wore Doc Martens not Timberland! I wear more fitted clothing now than I did as a teen.
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#32 of 42 Old 12-04-2009, 06:16 PM
 
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I'm not particularly concerned about immodest dress, although I admit that I don't think it's attractive to see young girls dressed in Bratz-doll-like fashion. I don't worry about modest dress and my dd. I do have a little sympathy for the sentiment behind the quote about men looking at teenage girls.



My dd is 13 y.o. She is my height, and has a better figure - more developed - than I had when I went to university. Men look at her. A lot. It's automatic - she comes into view and I see men's eyes do an up/down/up again - often stopping at certain parts of her body. It's more than a little disturbing to see her being "checked out" by men in their 20's, 30's, 50's and older. I can't help but feel a little protective at that moment.

So I have a lot of sympathy for a mom who wants a modest dress code. I'm not going to implement one, but I understand the motivation.
True, but the onus shouldn't be on her to prevent a man's interest/action. The onus should be on the man. I think the article comes from the position that the man is the accelerator, woman is the breaks. Plus, as a stepmother of a very attractive now 19 yo, doesn't matter if she's wearing courdoroys and a sweater, if she's good looking, she will be noticed.

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I really don't know where to start with this other than to say that a writer who starts with the premise that all men are sexual fiends and all women are prey is in a pretty disturbed place.
Yes!!

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My problem with the whole idea layed out in the article in the OP is that women (and girls) are apperently responsable for a man's self control. It's her job to not entice him into looking, as opposed to his job to learn how to control the urge to look. Which is exactly why you get men in their 20's, 30's, 50's etc who can't keep their eyes of certain body parts. Yeah I have the occasional naughty thought, but guess what? I can keep my eyes north of anything appealing in that way when I know such attention is inappropriate (such as not in a night club or when DH is walking around in his undies). It's called self control and it's a great thing to have.

Bugs the crap outta me. DD is not responsable for what the teen and adult men around her do. She is responsable for herself only.

The idea that teens in a physical relationship is always bad irks me too, but less so simply because there are people in every age group who are very much not mature enough to be in a physical relationship with someone.

In our house we are teaching DD to dress in a way that she is comfortable with. She is most comfortable with covering up at the moment, but if that changes we aren't going to beat ourselves up about it. Dh and I know that she is fully capable of telling a guy to growup if he can't look anywhere other then her chest or ass.

The one and only girl I had sex with dressed conservatively and she was younger then 15 when we did it. It was also her idea and involved more then just lust.

Agreed! Why aren't there articles upon articles about how to teach boys (and therefore the men they will grow into) about responsible sexuality?? It's just so much easier to blame the slutty dressed girl.

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#33 of 42 Old 12-09-2009, 02:53 AM
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There's also an issue with older men having sex with girls - that's why there are statutory rape laws against that kind of sexual activity, but no "Lolita" laws. .
I'm not sure what you mean. Do you mean that only the older person is prosecuted for under-age sex? (Which I believe to be true. The underage person is considered the victim.) Or do you mean that only men are barred from sex with people under the age of consent? Ie, that older women with younger boys are not prosecuted? (Which I do not believe to be true.)

Not that wiki is the ultimate legal source, but for what it's worth: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statutory_rape

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#34 of 42 Old 12-09-2009, 02:58 AM
 
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I think she meant general statutory laws, the gender assignment she gave is simply a result of the pre-programmed idea of "a woman would never do that" showing up. It's something many people, even those who understand that's not the way it is tend to go their first, even if only for a brief moment.

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#35 of 42 Old 12-09-2009, 03:51 AM
 
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Yes, I assume too that she was simply pointing out that there are not laws prosecuting the younger person having sex with an older person, because it is not simply the act of sex that is a crime, but rather the older person is committing a crime by having sex with a person of such extreme youth. Does that make sense?
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#36 of 42 Old 12-09-2009, 12:35 PM
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Yes, thanks. I just couldn't quite tell if it was a statement about gender or a statement about age.

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#37 of 42 Old 12-10-2009, 05:21 PM
 
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Huh.

Yes, reactionary article. The site, though... you know what's funny? A fair few of the people I know at church who are concerned about modest dress would find the clothes in the photos section too revealing. Heck, a few of the necklines are lower than what I prefer to wear. So they're not advocating burqas or anything - none of those clothes would cause me to think "modest" (or "immodest", really; they're just clothes). And though they're not exactly my style, I think they were fairly nice - not frumpy or Lilies of the Fieldish (my apologies to anyone who wears Lilies of the Field)! They don't look "alternative religious", they just look... normal.

I do prefer modest dress, and I will probably set some limits on DD's clothes when she's older. But the article (I didn't investigate the site too deeply) did have a rather odd tone. It was a bit Josh Harrisy, putting a LOT of responsibility on the (clad!) shoulders of girls to prevent the thoughts of men that, in that mindset, are more or less inevitable anyway...

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#38 of 42 Old 12-11-2009, 01:10 PM
 
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Yes, I assume too that she was simply pointing out that there are not laws prosecuting the younger person having sex with an older person, because it is not simply the act of sex that is a crime, but rather the older person is committing a crime by having sex with a person of such extreme youth. Does that make sense?
Correct. I was responding to a previous poster who noted that girls ogle older men and perhaps the men need to be protected from the girls' staring, based on the flawed logic in the article.

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I think she meant general statutory laws, the gender assignment she gave is simply a result of the pre-programmed idea of "a woman would never do that" showing up. It's something many people, even those who understand that's not the way it is tend to go their first, even if only for a brief moment.
I think it was because of the context of the discussion - which has centred on modest dress for females, and the arguments supporting it, the chief one being protection from men. The discussion was about the older male/younger female dynamic. Another poster pointed out that young females also ogle men. Certainly, older women may also be offenders, but I don't think the article suggested the possibility (and I'm not inclined to go back to it, it wasn't good enough for a re-read, lol!). Hence the phrasing - it was in response to a specific scenario .
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#39 of 42 Old 12-11-2009, 02:11 PM
 
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Clicked on the link. Got a popup ad for match.com. I sense some irony there.
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#40 of 42 Old 12-11-2009, 05:47 PM
 
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I think it was because of the context of the discussion - which has centred on modest dress for females, and the arguments supporting it, the chief one being protection from men. The discussion was about the older male/younger female dynamic. Another poster pointed out that young females also ogle men. Certainly, older women may also be offenders, but I don't think the article suggested the possibility (and I'm not inclined to go back to it, it wasn't good enough for a re-read, lol!). Hence the phrasing - it was in response to a specific scenario .
True, the article focuses on modest dress for female, but there is social programming to think that adult ogling teen/adult in a relationship with teen means the adult is male and the teen is female. For instance if you say ages but no genders, most people will assume by default the older is male and the younger is female.

All it takes for a female to be a cradle robber is being 25 and dating a 21 year old man. But for a man to be a cradle robber she has to be young enough to be his daughter.

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#41 of 42 Old 12-11-2009, 06:54 PM
 
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True, the article focuses on modest dress for female, but there is social programming to think that adult ogling teen/adult in a relationship with teen means the adult is male and the teen is female. For instance if you say ages but no genders, most people will assume by default the older is male and the younger is female.

All it takes for a female to be a cradle robber is being 25 and dating a 21 year old man. But for a man to be a cradle robber she has to be young enough to be his daughter.
Yeah, there is a lot of social programming, and you're probably right about the default assumptions, in most cases. I think it's changing a little bit, with the media coverage of cougars, and a few criminal cases involving female teachers/adolescent boy students. Not that cougars are criminals!!! I'm not confusing them! Just saying there's a trend highlighted in the media about older women/younger men.

Come to think of it, there's probably a lot more acceptance, or even encouragement, these days for the older woman/younger man scenario, as long as they are both consenting adults.
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#42 of 42 Old 12-13-2009, 03:26 PM
 
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When I was 15 or so we were all wearing baggy clothes and flannels. I was completely covered, no legs, no cleavage...nothing...but I was still having sex.

As far as the bikini comment, that is just hard for me to understand...wearing a bikini at the beach is perfectly acceptable at any age, in my mind. Wearing a bikini to say.....the grocery store would be a bit much though...

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