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#61 of 87 Old 02-22-2010, 04:50 PM
 
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Originally Posted by angelpie545 View Post
I have a nine year old, and if it was a safety issue, I would have no issues using a harness..
If it were truly a safety issue, I'd use a dog leash if I needed to.

Totally off topic. My cousin lived with her husband, two preteen sons and their baby daughter in an actual swamp in the middle of nowhere in Florida. (I have no idea why they moved there)

Anyway.. when Shay was walking, and the family needed to fish or hunt, they would actually TIE Shay to a tree so if an Alligator (or crocadile.. I have no idea what they have in the swamps of Florida) tried to grab her, the parents would have a chance to shoot the alligator before it could drag her into the water.

Yes.. they were/are the weirdest people on earth. But, I thought their idea of "the best safety measures available" were pretty interesting. And, today, Shay is 19 years old, and still remembers being tethered to a tree as a child. But, she has no bad memories of that. Kids are resiliant.
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#62 of 87 Old 02-22-2010, 08:21 PM
 
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I'd like to know how many of the parents with 9 year olds have a nine year old who would actually run away in the dark when not going to their own home address because they didn't get ice cream?

It's all very well to assume that those of us who would use this measure have never met or experienced a 9 year old, but i wonder how many of you have normal 9 year olds who actually behave like this, and how you expect others to care for them in this sort of situation?

I don't have a 9 year old, but i know and have cared for plenty and NONE of them acted like this, they were all very mature individuals by comparison with this standard. If they had acted like the child as described i would have met as i found.
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#63 of 87 Old 02-22-2010, 08:55 PM
 
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GoBecGo, my 9 yr old would run some distance away and then stop if she was really upset. I doubt if she'd do it in the dark because she's actually very cautious and I doubt she'd do it over ice cream, but I wouldn't put it past her. I'd never put a leash or a harness on her, though. I would expect other people who are caring for her (say her grandmother) to call to her and ask her to stop and reiterate the explanation as to why they couldn't stop for ice cream. I'm sure if it was explained that there was no money and they could do it another time or have another snack when they got home she wouldn't keep running away. She'd never run very far anyway, though, she's just not that kid.

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#64 of 87 Old 02-22-2010, 09:24 PM
 
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No, I cannot imagine my child doing this at 9 (he's 10 now). I can't imagine my 7 YO doing this either. Not over ice cream or not getting their way about something. But they certainly have run away as a "game" or because they were feeling full of energy and I was walking too slowly for them(I'm overweight and asthmatic -- I don't walk veryfast). I would expect a caregiver to call out "STOP!" and I would expect them to do so. If they didn't I would expect the caregiver to continue walking, keep the kids in sight as much as possible and yell something like "I'm headed for X. I hope you will be there when I get there" and proceed. If they didn't arrive at their destination, I would expect caregiver to call me. I would handle some sort of consequence once I was home -- I do not expect nor want a caregiver doing it.

I do not see any huge safety issue here though. Honestly. My kds walk and run down the street at dusk all the time. I cannot for the life of me picture any scenario where I felt safe walking but felt that a tween in front of me was not safe. If it were a bullet-dodging area, then none of us would be safe. Stranger-kidnappings are actually so rare that they don't hit my radar (of course, if the parents were in a custody fight or there were other things that we don't know, this could be a bigger riks, but that seems a BIG assumption). Car jumping up onto the sidewalk and hitting us could happen whether the group were together or not. Car turning into driveway or street and hitting child? Maybe, but again, child is not tiny and even in a major emotional meltdown I'm pretty sure my 9 YO would watch for a car when crossing a street. Child gets lost? Again, not a completely unfamiliar neighborhood, so seems unlikely. And a little lost and therefore scared? Great natural consequence. So where is the huge safety issue that would warrent leashing this child? I cannot for the life of me see it.
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#65 of 87 Old 02-22-2010, 09:32 PM
 
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Originally Posted by GoBecGo View Post
I'd like to know how many of the parents with 9 year olds have a nine year old who would actually run away in the dark when not going to their own home address because they didn't get ice cream?

It's all very well to assume that those of us who would use this measure have never met or experienced a 9 year old, but i wonder how many of you have normal 9 year olds who actually behave like this, and how you expect others to care for them in this sort of situation?

I don't have a 9 year old, but i know and have cared for plenty and NONE of them acted like this, they were all very mature individuals by comparison with this standard. If they had acted like the child as described i would have met as i found.
Yeah, I have been thinking about this thread and just don't know how exactly to respond, mostly because I can't imagine a normal 9 year old acting in such a way that this would be needed. I had a 5 year old cousin do something kinda similar, but holding hands for the rest of the walk did the trick. I keep thinking "well maybe the 9 year old is too strong or out of control to hold hands..." but then wouldn't he be able to get out of (or stop himself from being strapped into) a small childs harness? It's just hard to wrap my mind around
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#66 of 87 Old 02-26-2010, 11:09 AM
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I think he was being a little stinker and trying to take advantage of Auntie. I bet that kid will think next time before messing around with his Aunt!

I think you did okay!

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#67 of 87 Old 02-26-2010, 02:14 PM
 
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My 9 year old is nearly 5 feet tall. She weighs around 100 pounds. I believe (hope) that she would defend herself if someone tried to put a leash on her.

"Little stinker" for anyone over 3 years old is not accurate.

I personally believe there is more the the story than he wanted ice cream and the aunt didn't have change with her. Something in the story doesn't ring right since every person who has or had a 9 year old can't imagine that scenario.
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#68 of 87 Old 02-26-2010, 02:22 PM
 
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I personally believe there is more the the story than he wanted ice cream and the aunt didn't have change with her. Something in the story doesn't ring right since every person who has or had a 9 year old can't imagine that scenario.
Very possible, but this would be right on for my nephews. If they don't get their way, this would be totally their reaction. Perhaps, mamas on MDC spend more time disciplining their kids...don't know...so you can't imagine your child doing this, but like I said, I can totally see my nephews doing this.
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#69 of 87 Old 02-26-2010, 02:23 PM
 
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Wouldn't a nine year old be able to easily take the harness off? I have seen a few harnesses that are used for toddlers and all of the 9 year olds that I know could take it off without a problem. This thread confuses me

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#70 of 87 Old 02-26-2010, 02:50 PM
 
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Originally Posted by lmk1 View Post
Very possible, but this would be right on for my nephews. If they don't get their way, this would be totally their reaction. Perhaps, mamas on MDC spend more time disciplining their kids...don't know...so you can't imagine your child doing this, but like I said, I can totally see my nephews doing this.
Oh I can totally imagine a 9 year old acting as the OP describes...it's the rest that's hard to fathom. Assuming your nephews are average size and otherwise normal, can you imagine them being wrestled into a harness and then walking home like that? I mean I guess it's just hard for me to see a 9 year old kid that is so out of control that they need a harness, actually walking home in said harness without a battle. These are things made to hold a 2 year old after all.

So I guess it's the idea that a 9 year old would be so totally out of control that they REQUIRE physical restraint...yet a restraint meant for a much younger child does the trick? My sister had very violent tantrums until her teens and my mom literally had to call the cops to help get her under control (starting around age 9). It's really hard to understand what exactly happened here.
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#71 of 87 Old 02-26-2010, 02:58 PM
 
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Very possible, but this would be right on for my nephews. If they don't get their way, this would be totally their reaction. Perhaps, mamas on MDC spend more time disciplining their kids...don't know...so you can't imagine your child doing this, but like I said, I can totally see my nephews doing this.
In public? Over ice cream? And submitted to the leashing?

If a kid is tantruming, the leash isn't going to work. If the kid is not tantruming, there's not need for it.

I spend a lot of time with 9 year olds (we homeschool). I continue to believe and hope that my child would physically fight before submitting to being leashed and led.

There's more to the story.
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#72 of 87 Old 02-26-2010, 03:13 PM
 
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In public? Over ice cream? And submitted to the leashing?

If a kid is tantruming, the leash isn't going to work. If the kid is not tantruming, there's not need for it.

I spend a lot of time with 9 year olds (we homeschool). I continue to believe and hope that my child would physically fight before submitting to being leashed and led.

There's more to the story.
No one in my family has ever even owned a leash or toddler restraint of any kind. What I said is that I can totally see my nephews throwing a tantrum over ice cream or any other thing where they didn't get their way. Since you homeschool, you obviously spend a lot more time with your child, and both you and your child have different expectations from each other. I do believe that a 9 year old acting this way is showing a lack of discipline (by the parents). Also, with my 2 nephews the older is MUCH more like this, and the younger one more like this only when he sees the older one getting away with it, because he's got a completely different character. Because once there's a
safety situation like this, they don't consider (especially the older one) their own risk, they know the parents (or whoever) will worry enough about them to say "ok, ok, we'll go home and get money for the ice cream and get it for you". Heck, I've seen them eat 5 ice cream bars at one sitting with their parents telling them, "don't you think that's too many?".
Would the parents restrain them? No, because they don't own anything to restrain them with.
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#73 of 87 Old 02-26-2010, 03:17 PM
 
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Oh I can totally imagine a 9 year old acting as the OP describes...it's the rest that's hard to fathom. Assuming your nephews are average size and otherwise normal, can you imagine them being wrestled into a harness and then walking home like that? I mean I guess it's just hard for me to see a 9 year old kid that is so out of control that they need a harness, actually walking home in said harness without a battle. These are things made to hold a 2 year old after all.

So I guess it's the idea that a 9 year old would be so totally out of control that they REQUIRE physical restraint...yet a restraint meant for a much younger child does the trick? My sister had very violent tantrums until her teens and my mom literally had to call the cops to help get her under control (starting around age 9). It's really hard to understand what exactly happened here.
I can't really comment on this part...I don't know if kids who see their younger siblings being restrained would react differently to having a harness themselves. I can't conjecture on it as I've never even held a restraint in my hands and my brother has never owned one for his kids. I believe they used the stroller much more for that...but that's another story. I don't agree with the parenting style used with my nephews in many ways and that's part of why I'm on MDC so much ... to see other styles that actually make sense and work.
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#74 of 87 Old 02-26-2010, 04:06 PM
 
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Because once there's a
safety situation like this,
See, I've never been convinced that this WAS a safety situation.

All the OP said was "Because it was getting dark" she put the restraint on him. But they were walking home, which suggests that it was a familiar neighbourhood. He's 9 y.o., not 3 or 6. Most 9 y.o.'s can go ahead on their own - even an angry one who wants to be left alone to nurse wounded feelings.

It seemed to me that the OP was overwhelmed and didn't know how to handle it. So she resorted to physical control out of frustration.

I still want to know what the 3 y.o., who needed the restraints in the first place, was doing while she wrestled the 9 y.o. into the harness.
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#75 of 87 Old 02-26-2010, 06:05 PM
 
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Do any of you other parents of 9 and up view it as appropriate in some circumstances?
DS1 is almost 17. I remember him at 9 very well. I can't imagine even thinking about using a harness on him at that age. He ran off sometimes, hid in stores (would follow us like a "spy"), etc. I wasn't concerned.

DD1 is 6.5, and I wouldn't use a harness on her, either, unless she wanted to put it on to play (far more likely to be a game with her little brother than with me).

I have used a harness in the past, but I wouldn't even consider it for a neurotypical 9 year old.

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#76 of 87 Old 02-26-2010, 06:08 PM
 
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I'd like to know how many of the parents with 9 year olds have a nine year old who would actually run away in the dark when not going to their own home address because they didn't get ice cream?
I can't imagine ds1 getting that upset over ice cream at 9. I can imagine him running off to somewhere other than home, while it was getting dark, if he were upset, though.

OP: Out of curiousity, how dark are we talking about?

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#77 of 87 Old 02-26-2010, 06:10 PM
 
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Wouldn't a nine year old be able to easily take the harness off? I have seen a few harnesses that are used for toddlers and all of the 9 year olds that I know could take it off without a problem. This thread confuses me
I wondered about that, too.

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#78 of 87 Old 02-27-2010, 01:41 PM
 
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I'd like to know how many of the parents with 9 year olds have a nine year old who would actually run away in the dark when not going to their own home address because they didn't get ice cream?

It's all very well to assume that those of us who would use this measure have never met or experienced a 9 year old, but i wonder how many of you have normal 9 year olds who actually behave like this, and how you expect others to care for them in this sort of situation?

I don't have a 9 year old, but i know and have cared for plenty and NONE of them acted like this, they were all very mature individuals by comparison with this standard. If they had acted like the child as described i would have met as i found.
I have a ten y.o. and spend significant time with many 9-11 year olds through Girl Scouts, playdates, hanging around my dd's school and going on field trips as a chaperone, have lots of nieces and nephews and adult cousins who have kids in this age group, am a volunteer camp counselor at the local Girls Rock camp, ride public transportation everyday to and from school with my daughter and several kiddos in her age group, etc. My daughter is and always has been really calm and not hard to handle...I don't think she would have run off at 3, much less 9.

As for higher spirited, but still considered "normal" or neurotypical kids....I can't think of ever being in a situation like this where I felt like everything was so out of control. I tend to think I am pretty great with kids, but I think a thoughtful conversation could have diffused the situation pretty well. I can think of a few really high-spirited kiddos that are just really independent and I know their mom's let them roam a bit more than I am comfortable in really crowded, high traffic type areas (I live in a big city) but I can usually level with them and say "So,I am feeling neurotic here, it is so crowded and I just really need you to make sure I can see you and you can see me at all times." There are times when they are distracted and move out of my field of vision but not too far and they are usually checking back with me within 30seconds or so. If I need kids of this age to stay closer I have said so, and made it clear that this is a non-negotiable moment and they get it and stay close until we have crossed the street or passed into a safer-feeling area.

I just think the best way to deal with kids in this age group is to try to respect their need for autonomy while setting limits in situations where their safety may be compromised. It is pretty easy to reason with kids in this age group, you just may have to be thoughtful in the way you go about it as the grownup in the situation.

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#79 of 87 Old 02-28-2010, 01:54 AM
 
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I have a 9 year old ( and a 7 year old..) and I can't imagine trying to get anything on him he didn't want to wear...lol...he's almost as tall as I am!! He could probably harness me! He would also be highly upset/embarrassed about being harnessed but then again, he is the type of child to follow rules.
So anyway, I have never run into this particular problem. I would think that while it's not the best solution, it's not the worst by far. It's not like you lashed out or berated him.
Next time I would set clear expectations about what we were doing, and what we weren't doing before we left for our adventure.

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#80 of 87 Old 03-01-2010, 07:21 PM
 
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haven't read whole thread yet,but I know I'm in the minority here, I think Auntie did the best she could while chasing a 9 year old and holding onto a toddler. I don't think she owes the kid an apology. In fact,IMHO the kid owes her an apology,for putting her in the position of even having to consider doing what she did.
I wouldn't have done it,but I have many years of experience in caring for all kinds of kids. I don;t think a harness is a great idea for a kid that age,neither do I think it's the end of the world. In reality,my 9 year old would feel ashamed for acting so foolishly and needing Auntie to treat him like a 'baby'.
If I were Op,I'd try to talk with the kid when I had some time to spend walking and talking,perhaps gently help the kid to see his own actions caused his aunt some worry- maybe they could agree on certain parameters for next time.....
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#81 of 87 Old 03-01-2010, 08:37 PM
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My older DS might have done something similar at that age. But if I had tried to leash him, he would have just sat on the ground and refused to move.

Of course, he did the same thing when he was 18 mos. old and I tried to use a harness on him in LAX airport.
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#82 of 87 Old 03-01-2010, 09:03 PM
 
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Well, I could totally see my 9 year old throwing a fit and running off ahead because he was mad. (And, ftr, he's been a run away-er since he learned to walk. He did use a toddler "leash" when he was little!) What I could NOT see is considering it a safety issue if he did. I'd be upset with him, but I wouldn't worry for his safety. Like others here, I can't imagine being able to physically get something like that on a non-compliant child the size of my son. We'd both probably end up getting hurt, and then he'd plop himself down on the ground and refuse to budge until I took the flipping thing off.
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#83 of 87 Old 03-02-2010, 10:36 PM
 
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I have 13 and 9 yo sons. The scenario makes no sense to me.

1) I could not catch my 9 yo. if he ran off. He's faster than I am. Even if I were in better shape than I am, I'd not be able to catch him with a 3 yo. in tow.

2) If he was not listening to my directions about staying reasonably close and walking with me, he would certainly not submit to having a harness put on him. He would fight it. I cannot physically fight my nine year old. I'd have to be willing to really hurt him in order to do more than simply restrain him. If he was cooperative enough to submit to having the harness put on, then he was cooperative enough not to need it.
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#84 of 87 Old 03-03-2010, 09:06 AM
 
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If he was cooperative enough to submit to having the harness put on, then he was cooperative enough not to need it.
Yes. Well said.
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#85 of 87 Old 03-03-2010, 12:57 PM
 
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I don't think she owes the kid an apology. In fact,IMHO the kid owes her an apology,for putting her in the position of even having to consider doing what she did.
I agree. I also wouldn't be too worried about the child feeling humiliated and ashamed. I don't believe we should intentionally set out to shame/humiliate children, but it is good for them to learn that when you act in a shameful way, you end up feeling ashamed and sometimes acting stupidly has the natural consequence of you end up humiliated.

I have an eleven year old son. I can't imagine him acting like this at any age. But at nine? If he did that to me at 9, he had better hope that some DR diagnosed him with a neuro disorder of some kind, or he would be in big, big trouble and getting leashed would be the least of his problems.
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#86 of 87 Old 03-03-2010, 03:47 PM
 
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...but it is good for them to learn that when you act in a shameful way, you end up feeling ashamed and sometimes acting stupidly has the natural consequence of you end up humiliated.
If my nine year old ran off like that, apparently over not getting an ice cream, I'd be worried about what was really going on with him/her, to be honest. I also think calling it "shameful" is a bit over the top.

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I have an eleven year old son. I can't imagine him acting like this at any age. But at nine? If he did that to me at 9, he had better hope that some DR diagnosed him with a neuro disorder of some kind, or he would be in big, big trouble and getting leashed would be the least of his problems.
Seriously? What on earth would you do to him if being leashed would be the "least" of his problems? Leashing a nine year old is pretty major.

I really, really doubt this was about ice cream, no matter what it looked like...but, if it is, then this boy would seem to have some genuine issues with impulse control, delayed gratification, etc. Humiliating him won't fix that.

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#87 of 87 Old 03-04-2010, 02:56 AM
 
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Originally Posted by mamaduck View Post
If he was cooperative enough to submit to having the harness put on, then he was cooperative enough not to need it.
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