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#1 of 21 Old 05-10-2010, 09:24 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I know it's been awhile. I only come sporadically as time allows. My kids are older, soo...

Anyway, my 13yo daughter was recently discovered to be in cyber sex chats on her phone. We took the phone and admonished giving out her email, which has her full name. We found some old dude's pic in her inbox, she'd never checked.

It's like an obsession. Come find out, a book series her mom got her (I'm stepmom) is House of Night which is just not okay for teens. Her mom agrees and we're gathering em all up to ditch.

So I get she's interested in twiddling. I get it. Goodness knows I'm happy she's not dating an 18 yo at her age, like I was. However, I can't just give her some fluffy fanfiction written because that's kinda.. illegal.

I don't know what to do. She's very sheltered and homeschooled due to the need for constant supervision due to mental health issues. I don't want to shelter her, but she can't be on the internet looking up domination/submission porn. In my opinion that's totally not healthy at her age.

What do you do?
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#2 of 21 Old 05-10-2010, 09:45 PM
 
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Too many things to address here...

These are just my thoughts, and I can't say we are doing all that great over here, so take it for what it is

Just my personal philosophy:

* ON BOOKS: If we are talking about these series, then they are Young Adult fiction. In order to be sold in YA fiction section at the stores, they have to have some boundaries there, and I have to admit, you completely lost me with that illegal comment. Sounds like fun books, written for teens to enjoy, and I'd be LIVID as a kid if my parents took these kinds of books away. It's seems very much overboard to be blaming these books for what's going on.

* ON PHONE: yeah, when DSD lost her cellphone, she became much nicer person. I swear. So I'm all for limited usage. Would probably get rid of text service for a while.

* ON SHELTERING: I don't think it's a bad thing per se, but I get the impression (maybe mistakingly), that it's a bit extreme in this case, and it's not working. Sounds like she knows way more than any of YA fiction books can provide.

* ON INAPPROPRIATE CHAT: you just talk about it ad nauseam, and discuss the dangers, and limit / monitor internet use for a while. No easy fix. Something bigger needs to be fixed, and it will be much harder than one would hope for. Counseling, maybe? Finding things to do outside the house - dance, sports, volunteering, job, anything?

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#3 of 21 Old 05-10-2010, 09:56 PM - Thread Starter
 
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* ON BOOKS: If we are talking about these series, then they are Young Adult fiction.

I know, I know. I didn't buy them, her mom did. I just didn't inspect them. Thus far, kidlet and I share same books. Yea, I read teen stuff. I actually do audio books while I"m at work. Hence, I found out about how bad these books were today cuz I'm on chappie 14!!!

In order to be sold in YA fiction section at the stores, they have to have some boundaries there, and I have to admit, you completely lost me with that illegal comment.

Well, illegal to sell without a parental advisory. Her mom is totally upset because she assumed walmart wouldn't sell smut, to teens no less.

Sounds like fun books, written for teens to enjoy, and I'd be LIVID as a kid if my parents took these kinds of books away. It's seems very much overboard to be blaming these books for what's going on.

No, I blame the books for intro'ing her into the terminology she used to search out on chatrooms on her phone. FYI: Cellufun.com is bad. I had no idea it existed. I thoguht she was texting friends.

* ON PHONE: yeah, when DSD lost her cellphone, she became much nicer person. I swear. So I'm all for limited usage. Would probably get rid of text service for a while.

I thought I was doing well by encouraging spelling. My 10 and 8 yo use it for that. We learned too late. :/

* ON SHELTERING: I don't think it's a bad thing per se, but I get the impression (maybe mistakingly), that it's a bit extreme in this case, and it's not working. Sounds like she knows way more than any of YA fiction books can provide.

Well, the sheltering isn't extreme. The supervision is, granted I messed up on the cell phone having no idea she could get to "ruffsex" chat. We had to remove her from school due to behavioral issues bordering on prosecution. We always homeschooled the children Hubs and I have together.


* ON INAPPROPRIATE CHAT: you just talk about it ad nauseam, and discuss the dangers, and limit / monitor internet use for a while. No easy fix. Something bigger needs to be fixed, and it will be much harder than one would hope for. Counseling, maybe? Finding things to do outside the house - dance, sports, volunteering, job, anything?

She's in in-home therapy, parenting therapy, psychiatry, the works. She's just got issues. Not big ones. Honestly, I think this could happen to any kid. She's just gotten her period, she's hormonal and clearly amorous. I don't want to shut her off from the sexual side. It's there. But she needs to learn more appropriate things. I just don't know what to do about it.
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#4 of 21 Old 05-11-2010, 01:15 AM
 
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Just want to say, if she's 13 then unless you, your DH and her mother have been keeping her locked in her room 24/7 I doubt the books had nearly as much to do with knowing things as you seem to think.

You might not like the idea, but it might be worth it to get her a lockable journal and encourage her to write stuff for herself if language is how she is exploring her sexuality.

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#5 of 21 Old 05-11-2010, 02:51 AM
 
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[QUOTE=amandajf;15392472She's in in-home therapy, parenting therapy, psychiatry, the works. She's just got issues. Not big ones. [/QUOTE]

I can't follow your post.

What sort of counselor is she seeing and how often?

What is she seeing the counselor for (what does the counselor write on the insurance forms)?

What are her mental health issues? Why does she need constant supervision? That's not developmental appropriate for a 13 year old unless they are endangering themselves (or others).

I've read the House of Night series (I'm on the latest one right now) and they are racey, but I still think you over-reacted. The way the sexual relationships play out with the characters is interesting. So yes, they have sex in them, but rather than freaking out that my child had read them, we just discussed what the characters did, how it worked out for them, and what my DD thought of that.

but everything has pros and cons  shrug.gif

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#6 of 21 Old 05-11-2010, 10:02 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by MusicianDad View Post
Just want to say, if she's 13 then unless you, your DH and her mother have been keeping her locked in her room 24/7 I doubt the books had nearly as much to do with knowing things as you seem to think.

You might not like the idea, but it might be worth it to get her a lockable journal and encourage her to write stuff for herself if language is how she is exploring her sexuality.
Well we chit chatted about it. She told me she got some of the uhm.. choise phrases from the books. I'm not suggesting she knows nothing on nookie. But the phrasing was just.. wow. And you're right, I don't like the idea Ugh.
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#7 of 21 Old 05-11-2010, 10:10 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I'm not worried about discussing it. We talk all the time. My question was, what do you do with a young teen who clearly wants to explore their sexuality and is seeking out porn?

What appropriate avenue is there? I know coworkers who's son is in this stage and they know he's on the net looking at porn and they just let him go. I can't do that because rather than just surfing, my kidlet was cybering with 50+ men and giving out her full name and email to people.

So what else is there?
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#8 of 21 Old 05-11-2010, 11:43 PM
 
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You need to talk about safe and unsafe in a non-judgmental/aggressive way and acknowledge that you cannot control everything thing she does but that there is a line beyond which there is danger. My dd just turned 13 and has mental health issues that play into her expressions of her sexuality. I have successfully gotten her off the computer/text sex and old guys but she did have sex with a 14 yr. They used a condom and, although, I can't say I was happy I do consider that she is learning to be safe.
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#9 of 21 Old 05-12-2010, 01:13 AM
 
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My dd is 14 and last year we discovered she was looking at porn online. Thankfully, it wasn't chatroom stuff, more that she was looking up pics and vids, mostly anime stuff.

First, DH and I did NOT freak out. What really surprised me was that she was using the family computer, she doesn't have her own. And she knows that I can and do use it at any time. As computer savy as she is, she apparently didn't know how to clear the history. Anyway, when I checked the history and discovered it, I closed everything out and when DH came home and DD was out at a friend's, I showed him and we talked about it first.

The thing that really struck ME and that made me really assess the whole thing somewhat objectively was that the first thing DH said was that had it been a son instead of a daughter, he wouldn't have thought it was a big deal. So we had to have a big discussion about double standards and the fact that he and I both look at porn and enjoy it together and that we both found and pilfered our parents stashes when we were her age. And we had to talk about what we ACTUALLY thought was wrong with what she was doing.

We realized it wasn't so much the fact that she was looking for porn, it was that there was a lot of false stuff in porn and we didn't want her to get the wrong idea from anything. And the fact that porn sites are full of viruses and malware, which resulted in her having filled up the computer with that crap in no time.

So, we sat down and talked with her about exactly that. We talked to her about why she was looking, told her that it was ok to be curious, but that what she sees online is as much acting as any other movie, that it's as fake as Star Wars or Titanic. If she wanted to get any questions answered, that it was best to come to us, we would give her the most honest answers we could. We also told her she could not look for porn online for the more practical reason of it filling up the computer with viruses and stuff. We actually ended up having to crash the computer and reboot it from scratch, which meant she lost some of her creative stuff that she had saved. But I know she learned that lesson.

We also talked about how if she was having "those urges" that masterbation was ok, but that it was something best done in private in her own room. It's been my experience with her and with my nieces and nephews that for the most part, little girls are less "exploratory" in that respect than little boys are and so we hadn't had the opportunity to really talk much about that sort of thing when she was little. When she and I had "the talk" we discussed it some, so she knew what DH and I were talking about, but we wanted to reassure her that it was ok to do, just not in a main room, on the family computer.

As far as books......I am ok if the books she reads are a little racy. She is WAY into anime and while most of the manga she reads are "age appropriate" I am also aware that some might be a smidge on the racy side. They aren't Fabio romance novels, but I think they contain enough to satisify the curiosity and urges, in a much safer manner, IMO. I feel like she's much more able to grasp the fictional aspects of the stories as well, in book form, than in "live action" forms, if that makes sense. It's much easier for me to read about a bloody gory battle for example, than to watch Gladiator on tv, I feel like sexual references are the same way.

NOW, having said that, internet safety, in regards to chatrooms and such are a whole seperate issue, IMO. I don't care if people are talking about sex or soccer, it's never safe to willy nilly hand out full names and addresses and such. We have always drilled internet safety into her head and I regularly logged into and gained membership to any website I found her on. And I made her well aware that I was "following" her around online, by randomly brining up things she discussed on those message boards and such. And if I ever became seriously concerned that she was sharing personally indentifiable information, OR if I thought her friends (IRL friends who she also associates with online) were sharing her stuff, she would absolutey lose privlidges online AND with those friends. And if became some sort of problem, I would have no problem installing blocker programs, just like workplaces have.

As far as her phone....we have internet blocked on all our phones. We pay very basic rates for financial reasons which means that net surfing is EXPENSIVE. And therefor not allowed, so it's blocked on all of our phones to prevent accidental useage. And texts...she pays for all her texts. She has a "job" at a family business, so she earns her own money, which means she pays for some privlidges, texting is one. Bonus, it keeps her in check, she set her own limit of $2 worth (which at $0.20 a text is about 10 messages a month.) And at this point, she isn't even using that.


SO, that's a long post, but I thought I would share how we handled the porn situation when we ran across it. I am not sure how well any of it might work for you if she has other behavioral or mental issues as well.
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#10 of 21 Old 05-20-2010, 04:59 AM
 
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Where do you live that it's illegal for young adult books to be sold to teens? I started buying those grocery store romance novels for myself around age 13/14, and was never given any sort of hassle. To be honest, I found that those books provided a pretty good knowledge base about sex without dealing with porn. Also, if something is in the Young Adult section, they might be racy but they can't be THAT bad, otherwise they'd have to be housed elsewhere. I understand if they're too racy for your family, but this can't be soft-core porn ala Fabio romance novels.

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#11 of 21 Old 05-20-2010, 11:13 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KaylaBeanie View Post
Also, if something is in the Young Adult section, they might be racy but they can't be THAT bad, otherwise they'd have to be housed elsewhere.
I've read the whole series (just finished Burned) and they are racy, but overall not that bad. There is a reference early on in the first book to oral sex, which really shocked me. As the series goes one, there is less and less racy content and more of a struggle between good and evil. The characters involved in casual sexual relationships are later in the book shown to be not very likeable, so even if a parent had a problem with some of the content, the overall message is still fine.

These books are NOT softcore porn, but I do understand why some families, especially religious families, wouldn't want their teens reading them.

However, if your teen is around other teens, watches TV, or goes to movies, they aren't going to learn anything new in these books.

but everything has pros and cons  shrug.gif

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#12 of 21 Old 05-20-2010, 12:27 PM
 
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Honestly, I would let her read the books - they are way tamer than most of what she would find on the internet and they are age appropriate. I'm not sure why you feel that they should not be sold without parental permission, as a kid I was an avid reader, heck I read most of the library's young adult section, and while they do contain sexual content I would hardly call them smutty - I promise you that a large number of the kids at her school talk about things much more sexual than the books.
Definitely keep tight control over the internet, if for no other reason to protect her from predators, but ease up a bit on the books.
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#13 of 21 Old 05-20-2010, 11:00 PM
 
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What would I do? I would get rid of the phone, the racy books and internet. Have open conversations about sacred sexuality. Spend time in connection and in things that interest her.

I tend to be conservative about our childrens' sexuality, spirits & minds. I do not subscribe to the thought "well everyone else is doing it". I won't let the line out until they are mature enough to process all the garbage our culture is brainwashing our children with...until our values have been with them long enough that they have a foundation to fall back on.

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#14 of 21 Old 05-20-2010, 11:30 PM
 
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In this case it's not "everyone is doing it" so much as "a 13 year old is a sexual being and has to be able to explore that to some extent." Books are one way of exploring sexuality.

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#15 of 21 Old 05-22-2010, 01:03 AM
 
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You mention that she isn't in school due to behavioral issues bordering on prosecution, and I wanted to throw out there that hypersexual behavior is a symptom of bipolar disorder. Being curious/interested in sex isn't hypersexuality, but looking up domination/submission stuff and having "ruffsex" with Internet strangers probably could be.
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#16 of 21 Old 05-23-2010, 09:36 PM
 
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The quoting here is weird but...

[QUOTE=amandajf;15392472]* ON BOOKS: If we are talking about these series, then they are Young Adult fiction.

>I know, I know. I didn't buy them, her mom did. I just didn't inspect them. >Thus far, kidlet and I share same books. Yea, I read teen stuff. I actually >do audio books while I"m at work. Hence, I found out about how bad >these books were today cuz I'm on chappie 14!!!

Yes, her mother bought them bc they are YA and her daughter is a YA. And deal with YA themes, which include sex.

>>In order to be sold in YA fiction section at the stores, they have to have >>some boundaries there, and I have to admit, you completely lost me with >>that illegal comment.

>Well, illegal to sell without a parental advisory. Her mom is totally upset >because she assumed walmart wouldn't sell smut, to teens no less.

Um. That's not how it works in a retail bookstore or a library, somewhere else she could get this series. Because it's not porn, it's a YA series. Only porn has an age limit.
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#17 of 21 Old 06-03-2010, 11:12 AM
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I would get rid of the phone and continue supervision. At this age, I think supervision is a wonderful thing!

As far as her being sexual and wanting to explore, I'm thinking masturbation. I know this is next to impossible to discuss with kids this age - but it sounds like relieving some tension would be good for her. How about a small vibrator? She's 13? Hmmmm.... idk

You know - I'm thinking about the amount of time and energy a boy spends in the shower or in their room when they become aware of masturbation. Girls might not be as comfortable touching themselves or achieving an organism - but it sounds like the desire is certainly there.

Is my post tmi?

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#18 of 21 Old 06-03-2010, 11:16 AM
 
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I think she needs to know that this type of thing won't be going on anymore. My oldest is 14, I check her phone logs online to see what she is up to. Our only computer is in the dining room so, I can see what is going on at all times. My dd knows I am watching so she understands that type of thing won't be happening here.

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#19 of 21 Old 06-12-2010, 11:57 AM
 
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To the OP: I just have to say, that your SD is really lucky to have you as a SM, and that you are talking (and seemingly on the same page with) her birth mom in such a constructive way is great.
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#20 of 21 Old 06-12-2010, 07:35 PM
 
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I think books are a pretty safe way to explore sexuality. I would not remove them. If she expressed an interest in it, I would read it (or up on it) so I could discuss it. My son sometimes wants to discuss ideas in books, my DD never does. Respect what she wants.

I think being carefull with cell phones and computers is fine, and in her case, quite necessary. My children do not have cell phones (well, DD does, but she has no minutes on it because she wants to spend her dollars elsewhere). We have one computer and it is in a public area.
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#21 of 21 Old 06-17-2010, 06:18 PM
 
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I thought it was illegal for adults to have phone sex with minors. Someone locally was recently prosecuted over it here. I imagine it depends on the details.

We have always been extremely big on the idea of not giving out personal info or emails to anyone who you don't already know, it's always been a condition of independent computer use. When we have had problems--which we did in a certain inappropriately-handled and destructive long distance relationship and some accounts created without permission--we restricted use based upon simply needing to be responsible with a privilege to have that privilege. We learned to be vigilant about what was happening, ultimately we handled it well enough that the sneaky things became less attractive and she found better things to do online and now things are kept more open. Trust has been rebuilt to re-earn various privileges quite a few times here.

FWIW I own a bookstore, and we sell these type of books but for us the point of the teen section is that it contains some very edgy content these days and it is very much separate from children's. We have a mature content label on the entire section so parents don't shop there for their "advanced" reading level 10yos. 13yo is a little young for some things in that section. But every parent is different and we do more advisory than most bookstores or libraries from what I have seen. We still don't stop people from buying what they choose. There is a lot of content dealing with self-destructive behavior, suicide, drugs, and not-so-healthy sexual relationships that is pretty complex being written for "young adult" and freely offered by libraries and bookstores. I like my dd to think about these very real scenarios in her mind rather than in action and consider what she thinks of it all BUT some of it makes me very uncomfortable and the amount of it now offered is overwhelming. The stereotypical teenage culture of sex and drugs and pathology is being fed somehow by all of this, some of the negativity be affirmed and held dear as part of what they are identifying with. That said, gradually teens become fully independent, and their relationship with the world is no longer ours to design/filter/control and it's just between them and the world with us simply acting as support. Between 13 and 15 our dd has changed a lot in this regard. Mostly for the wiser, often by a rough road, but I feel good about her ability to face the world as she claims her adulthood. Best wishes for you!

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