Share your 16yo ds's sleep patterns - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 20 Old 10-19-2010, 06:30 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I feel like I posted this before, but searched and didn't find it, so maybe I only intended to.

I'd like to know how much sleep your 16yo ds gets. I wonder if my ds just isn't "normal".

He needs to be up at 6:30 to be on time for school. That's our reference point. He does have a bedtime. It is 9pm. On weekends with me, I try to keep him mostly on schedule, but EOW his dad messes it up.

For the last year, ds has had great difficulty with excessive daytime sleepiness. He falls asleep on the way home from school nearly every day (2.5mi drive). Some days I can't get him up once we get home, so he naps in the car in the garage.

Then he come in and immediately wants to nap. My problem with it is that he doesn't just take a brief siesta...he sleeps from 3pm until pretty much bedtime. Then he eats and struggles to get back to sleep in order to be well-rested in the morning. He often takes 900mcg of melatonin to try to reset his rhythm.

I have a new rule that he isn't "allowed" to sleep until 8pm. I do expect him to stay up from 3-at least 8pm so that he can do a bit of HW, spend time with his family, eat a meal, etc.

Ds has a huge ordeal every morning getting up. He turns off his alram clock and falls back asleep, or else just lets it ring for however long it takes me to go in and punch it. LOL

If I let ds nap after school, he sleeps too long and then doesn't sleep at night, which makes it hard to get up in the morning, but at the same time, I can't force a person who is now officially larger than myself to stay awake.

Is this normal? He has had an abnormal sleep study, but their suggestion was tonsilectomy, which I declined. If this is a teen thing, I can try to just deal, but I'd love to hear from others with an idea of when and how much their teen kiddos sleep.

TIA!!!

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#2 of 20 Old 10-20-2010, 02:42 PM
 
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My son at 16 didn't nap at all. He was up at 6, latest, then stayed up until 11/12pm.

My *daughter*, however.... She is up at 5am, heads to school at 5:45. School, then practice 'til 5. She comes home, has a snack and then sleeps until 8 or so. Finishes her homework (does the most of it on the bus)/ And is usually out by 10. But that does include a nap in the late afternoon/early evening,
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#3 of 20 Old 10-20-2010, 03:13 PM
 
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DS is now 17, but he's always had sleep needs.

Right now, he in on a 2-day school cycle. On one day has a spare every morning, and the alternating day he has 2 spares. The earliest he has to be awake is usually 9 a.m., and on alternate days, 11 a.m. He usually goes to his room at about 11:30 p.m., although I suspect he's reading or listening to music after that time.

I'd say he needs about 10 or 11 hours of sleep, or even more, but he gets about 8 or 9 hours a night. He doesn't seem to nap at all.
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#4 of 20 Old 10-20-2010, 03:49 PM
 
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When I was around 16 I was sleeping 12-15 hours per night and always tired. Someone told me that it was way too much sleep and that was why I was groggy all the time. I cut back to 8-10 (I really can't remember what it was, but somewhere in there) and that took care of the problem.

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#5 of 20 Old 10-20-2010, 04:15 PM
 
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My daughter got herself into that pattern a few times too.

She loves to sleep. She could sleep 18 hours a day in a perfect world. But, when she gets into a napping after school pattern, it's hard to break.

Personally, my child sleeps too much. She's just generally kinda lazy, and she always thinks she's overstressed with school. (cry me a river) LOL. But, I don't expect her to have a set bedtime. I let her make her own choices about sleep, and suffer the consequences later. I couldn't enforce a bedtime in high school anyway.. most school functions don't even end until almost 10:00 pm, then she still has homework.

She's actually starting to figure it out on her own.
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#6 of 20 Old 10-20-2010, 04:22 PM
 
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My dd is 15 y.o. Hope it's Ok if I chime in. My understanding is that teens tend to be night owls and are sleepy a lot of the time.

My dd is certainly a night owl (always has been) and would sleep till after noon if she could.

Your rule that sleeping isn't allowed until 8pm makes total sense to me.

I agree with the above poster who mentioned that sleeping too much can make a person groggy. It's certainly true for me. Also sleeping at different times of the day can mess me up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blessedwithboys View Post
He has had an abnormal sleep study, but their suggestion was tonsilectomy, which I declined.
Why did you decline it?

Maybe a CPAP machine would help your son? Does he have untreated allergies? If he never gets any deep sleep because he's continually waking himself up through the night trying to get enough air then yes, he'll definitely be super sleepy in the day time.

Blessedwithboys, check out the sleep apnea thread in the Parents as Partners forum. It might interest you.

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#7 of 20 Old 10-21-2010, 01:39 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by journeymom View Post
My dd is 15 y.o. Hope it's Ok if I chime in. My understanding is that teens tend to be night owls and are sleepy a lot of the time.

My dd is certainly a night owl (always has been) and would sleep till after noon if she could.

Your rule that sleeping isn't allowed until 8pm makes total sense to me.

I agree with the above poster who mentioned that sleeping too much can make a person groggy. It's certainly true for me. Also sleeping at different times of the day can mess me up.



Why did you decline it?

Maybe a CPAP machine would help your son? Does he have untreated allergies? If he never gets any deep sleep because he's continually waking himself up through the night trying to get enough air then yes, he'll definitely be super sleepy in the day time.

Blessedwithboys, check out the sleep apnea thread in the Parents as Partners forum. It might interest you.


I hate that I had to actually make a "no sleeping before 8pm" rule, but he forced me to! LOL

I declined the tonsilectomy for several reasons. One, I take surgery in general, and the associated risks very seriously. I'm not completely against it; ds has had a suspicious mole surgically removed, plus wisdom teeth. The thing with his tonsils and adenoids is that he is allergic to casein. It only takes 3-4 days to clear from his system and the apnea is nearly non-existent. But my ex refuses to keep him free of overt and hidden dairy. I was able to get a court order once for a 4 months elimination, and he fully cooperated, but on the first day after we hit 4 months, he took him for ice cream. I strictly limit dairy, but 4 days each month it's out of my control. I just don't think surgery is the answer to solve that problem. Also, I have learned that tonsils are actually a first defense part of the immune system and that they are likely to grow back when removed in adolesence.

Another reason I have declined surgery is that there are non-invasive treatment options like CPAP and oral appliances.

Anyway, I scheduled another sleep study for next week. The clinic we went to before used to not offer follow-up treatment, but now they have expanded and offer it all...breathing machines, appliances, light boxes, meds if necessary.

i really think he is sleeping too much during the day because he doesn't sleep well enough at night. He is showing some other early signs of fibromyalgia, just like I did in high school, so I need to get him right before he ends up with a major chronic issue.

Thanks for the replies!

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#8 of 20 Old 10-21-2010, 11:21 PM
 
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When my girls were in high school, they set their own bedtimes. Dylan, in 7th grade, has a bedtime of 9:30 and gets up at 6:45. Because he is 12 going on 13, he needs about 9-10 hours of sleep. Joy, during swim season, went to bed at 7:30/8 pm and got up at 5 am for before school swim practice. She was in the pool 5 hours a day, 5 days a week. Erica and Angela went to bed around 11 pm and got up at 6:30 am. School started at 7:30 am. We moved to another school district when Angela was in 9th grade (for the 2nd time, she failed it the first time around). Angela was able to change her start time as a jr and sr. Her new school had block scheduling. In her jr. year, she didn't have a first period so every other day she didn't have to be at school until 10 am. In her sr. year, she didn't have aa 1st or 2nd period so she started school at 10 am every day. She did have a 7th period after school (drama) so she was at school until about 4 pm every day.

This website has a lot of good information about teen sleep cycles. http://kidshealth.org/teen/food_fitn...ch_sleep.html# Teens have a later bedtime set point than children or adults. They are wired to go to bed around midnight and need about 9 hours of sleep. That means that their bodies want to sleep from midnight to about 9 am. Most high school don't start that late so teen have to fight their bodies to get the amount of sleep they need. Your 9 pm to 6:30 am gives your teen the right amount of sleep but it's 3 hours earlier than his body's clock. You need to keep him up after school so that he is tired at 9 pm. Exercise is a good way to do this. No sitting in front of a screen/monitor will also help. So no TV or computer or video consols after school. Have him do chores, homework, exercise (bike ride, jogging, skate board, after school sports, etc.) Too much sleep has the same symtoms as not enough sleep.

Chris--extended breastfeeding, cloth diapering, babywearing, co-sleeping, APing, CLW, homeschooling before any of this was a trend mom to Joy (1/78), Erica (8/80), Angela (9/84), Dylan (2/98)
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#9 of 20 Old 10-22-2010, 01:06 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I'm gonna check out that link right away, thanks!

I kow it's normal for him to want to stay up late and sleep in, but I can't let him bc he has to leave for school at 7:30am. I tried HSing a while back but his dad got a court order to force me to put him back in school, so I'm stuck. He is ahead a credit or two in school, so I may see if I can get him a later start time. I'd have to get his car on the road first bc I don't want to have to make two trips for drop off every morning (ds2 would still start at 8am).

I've been forcing him to go outside to play basketball after school, and giving him lots fo chores to do. Anything I can think of to keep him from sitting down, bc the second his butt hits a soft cushy spot he is out cold! So right now he is not liking me too much, bc I have a list of things for him to do every afternoon. LOL

I am really struggling with myself on this one bc I am a big believer in listening to, and honoring, your body's signals. But even if I can get him a later start time at school, or better yet, appeal the no HS rule, we still have other activites on the weekends that are non-negotiable and would require him to be by 7 or 8am.

Well, we're doing another sleep study and I'll be extra-diligent about following up this time and then we'll go from there.

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#10 of 20 Old 10-22-2010, 03:17 PM
 
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Studies have shown many times that teens need as much sleep as small children (we're talking nearly toddler levels of sleep needs). So as long as mine has his commitments met (chores & homework, etc) he is free to sleep as much as he wants.
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#11 of 20 Old 11-20-2010, 06:31 AM
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I have read somewhere that teenagers literally become nocturnal.

 

My 16 year old ds has never been a sleepy baby.  He just didn't require a lot of sleep. I think that might be a key factor/thread in what you should base your opinions off of.  But anyway - for the record, he has to be up by 6:30.   He is never a problem waking in the morning.  He has track/cross country practice after school (where he usually runs about 5 miles a day) and then comes home, does homework and goes to bed around 11 pm.   Very occassionally, he will stay up until midnight or one.   Also, very rarely, he will come home and nap for an hour or two - but this is only when he has a really hard workout at practice.


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#12 of 20 Old 11-20-2010, 07:31 AM
 
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Chronic lack of sleep will cause many many symptoms that I am sure could manifest as suspiciously similar to fibromyalgia.  Before you start looking in that direction I would check out getting enough sleep.  I have a son who had sleep apnea problems and the adenoid and tonsil removal was crucial for him to get enough sleep.  Since he had them out, everything has improved- his sleep, his behavior, school work, everything.  Honestly, I couldn't see saddling him with a cpap machine when the surgery would correct it.  I am sure not everyone has the same views, but for us a one time fix was much easier and more efficient than lifelong worrying about the cost of cpap, user compliance, etc.  Cpap is very intrusive.  

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#13 of 20 Old 11-22-2010, 04:33 PM
 
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that sounds like me when i was a teenager. 


cold.gifme + headscratch.gif him and one littlecat.gifPaco the Taco hoping for one of these  makebabe.gifin the near future

 

 

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#14 of 20 Old 11-22-2010, 05:43 PM
 
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My HSed almost 15 yr old sleeps 10-12 hours a night.  He is rarely groggy.

 

My almost 12 yr old schooled child gets up at 6:15 (her choice - she has to straighten her hair, you know???winky.gif ) and sometimes goes to bed as early as 8:00.  I miss her, but know she needs her sleep.  

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#15 of 20 Old 11-22-2010, 06:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mommy2maya View Post

Chronic lack of sleep will cause many many symptoms that I am sure could manifest as suspiciously similar to fibromyalgia.  Before you start looking in that direction I would check out getting enough sleep.  I have a son who had sleep apnea problems and the adenoid and tonsil removal was crucial for him to get enough sleep.  Since he had them out, everything has improved- his sleep, his behavior, school work, everything.  Honestly, I couldn't see saddling him with a cpap machine when the surgery would correct it.  I am sure not everyone has the same views, but for us a one time fix was much easier and more efficient than lifelong worrying about the cost of cpap, user compliance, etc.  Cpap is very intrusive.  


All of that.

 

DS1 had sleep apnea, and I really couldn't imagine him complying with CPAP use. My mother and DH both have CPAPs, and they are very difficult to become accustomed to, keep clean, etc. My DH never adjusted to his even after trying five or six different masks, and so we have this pricey machine that he doesn't use, and he still has apnea. Dragging a CPAP away on overnights, camping, etc? It just seemed unrealistic to me.

 



Quote:
Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post

My HSed almost 15 yr old sleeps 10-12 hours a night.  He is rarely groggy.

 

 

My boys (also HSed) have had awful sleep patterns....meaning, there's no real pattern. They will stay up for 36 hours and then crash for 18, or what-have-you. When their friends stay over they will stay up all night playing video games or Magic the Gathering. DS1 works a full-time job, and still manages to get up for work every day and be productive. He is almost 19 and sleeps an average of six hours per night during the week, and gets more sleep on the weekends. Sometimes if he sleeps too late on Sunday morning, he will just stay up until Monday night so as to reset his clock. I don't understand why he just doesn't regulate his sleep better, but that's how he is....
 

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#16 of 20 Old 11-22-2010, 06:24 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I just saw my thread on new posts so I thought I'd come update.  :)

 

I think many of you who have teenagers who sleep alot have perfectly normal teenagers.  The difference between those guys and mine is that when mine is awake he is almost completely unproductive.  We had our second regular overnight sleep study and all of his apnea is completely gone, both central and obstructive.  He has outgrown his tonsil issues, without surgery!  :)

 

Unfortunately, he seems to fit the criteria for narcolepsy, so we are going for a daytime sleep study in a few weeks to confirm.  But considering his "excessive daytime sleepiness" and sleep inertia/paralysis, it is pretty much a sure thing.  I sure wasn't expecting that!

 

WRT fibromyalgia...I personally have as theory that it's just a label doctors slap on peole when they aren't smart enough to figure out what the real problem is.  I have severe insomnia and when I treat it, my "FM" almost completely reverses.  Now the kids' sleep doc is saying my FM might actually be narcolepsy.  Who knows?


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#17 of 20 Old 11-22-2010, 06:44 PM
 
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My 17 yo DS (and my 12 yo DS) both love to sleep, and they love to stay up late, but I DO NOT interfere with either their sleeping or their waking. When they were reasonably old enough and able enough to set an alarm and get themselves up and ready, I stopped telling them when to sleep or wake, and they must take the consequences of that decision (one is now finding out how few privileges teens have when they are super late with a lot of homework, LOL).

 

This has helped prepare them for their adult life-- DS 1 has NEVER been late for his job and was hired FT over the summer bc they liked his work ethic. If I'd made all the decisions for him, I doubt it would have really developed. Is there a way you could give DS more responsibility for his own sleeping, waking and time management?

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#18 of 20 Old 11-23-2010, 02:38 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Yeah, I have given more responsibility, but if I let him miss school bc he chose not to wake up, I can lose custody of him.  My ex is a UAV, PM me if you want the whole story.

 

Anyway, he's not just a typical sleepy teenager, he's literally falling asleep at all times of the day, in public places even.  It's way beyond normal, which is why we sought a medical opinion.  I'm going to keep trying to regulate him and avoid allowing him to get to the point of feeling natural/logical consequences until I get a definite answer on whether or not he has narcolepsy.


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#19 of 20 Old 01-10-2011, 05:01 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Just wanted to come back and say that ds was dx with narcolepsy last week.  He's taking meds and we hope to see an improvement soon.

 

Oh, and he thinks it's so cool that his dr. wrote a note to the school giving him permission to take a nap everyday after lunch.  LOL


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#20 of 20 Old 01-14-2011, 04:47 PM
 
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Thanks for updating.  Imagine that, a note from the doctor giving him permission to nap at school.  All the other teens must be sooooo jealous!


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