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#1 of 74 Old 04-02-2011, 05:35 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I am the mother of 3 boys- my 10 yo listens to and loves all the pop music. there is some REALLY disturbing stuff out there- all about getting drunk and drinking until your vision is blurred/ your words are slurred-

about women fighting other women and yelling obscenities at other women-

the Rihanna/ Eminim song- Love the way you lie- she is abused and LOVES the way it hurts and he tells her if she leaves him again- he will tie her to the bed and watch the house burn down-

Now Rihanna has a song entitled S&M where she talks about sex in the air and the smell of it and that she gets excited by whips and chains- it has been banned in other countries but it is playing on the radio here every five minutes- I honestly don't know what to do---the garbage they are putting out there for our children to buy and listen to-

I DO talk to DS about what the music says and why i can't stand it, but he doesn't care- he knows all the words and hears it with his friends etc anyway---

Are we to just give up trying to protect our kids because the garbage is everywhere?

 


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#2 of 74 Old 04-03-2011, 04:44 AM
 
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I think the meaning of the words may be  going over his head...i loved grease movie when i was a kid and had the soundtrack on tape. I remeber watching the movie with my  daughter when she was about  10 for the first time in years  and finally realsing what it was all about and thoses songs i had learnt at a young age were about sex..lol

 

If you cant stp him from hearing the songs  just explain you dont approval of some of the messages in them and let it go, i don think these songs will do any harm, and imo the more you try to say they are 'bad' songs the more your kids will try to listen to them to try and figure out what you mean.

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#3 of 74 Old 04-03-2011, 05:16 AM
 
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Isn't this an age-old issue? Our grandparents didn't like what our parents listened to, our parents didn't like what we listened to, and now we don't like what our kids listen to.

 

I found that it was helpful to find out what it is about the songs that they like - I can almost guarantee that the lyrics don't figure high on the list.

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#4 of 74 Old 04-03-2011, 05:27 AM
 
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Elvis used to be considered obscene. And forget the Beatles. Or the Rolling Stones. Or Poison. Scandalous! lol. 

 

I agree, it's just.... one of those things. It doesn't mean I LIKE it. We don't listen to the radio in our house(except NPR). The kind of music my DH and I like aren't on the radio. Our DS1's favorite band is Depeche Mode. Are you familiar with the lyrics? No, they don't talk about beating anyone, but they are very sexually charged. But he has no idea. He just likes how it sounds. And frankly, I don't think sex in and of itself is bad, and it's not something that I want to hide from my kids anyway. 

 

I do take some issue, though, with music that degrades women in the sense of beating them or calling them names that make them possessions. I don't mind female musicians expressing their own sexuality. My favorite band has some really violent lyrics, but they sing mostly in Spanish(entirely coincidental, I don't speak Spanish, nor do I specifically like Spanish music, this is industrial). 

 

I think it's just..... one of those things.....

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#5 of 74 Old 04-03-2011, 05:31 AM
 
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By age 10, it's hard to guide what they get exposed to, I think a better strategy then is to talk about healthy relationships and be a good model for him. Actually talk about why degrading one another is a bad thing and how it's really about being a team and building one another up. Also teach your own view of alcohol, whether it's ok done responsibly at an appropriate age, or always a bad move, or whatever, and why.

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#6 of 74 Old 04-03-2011, 08:33 AM
 
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My daughter is only five so take this for what it's worth (I saw this from the main page and it's a discussion I was just having yesterday, so it caught my attention).  She LOVES music.  She loves loud fast pop music, she likes catchy lyrics.  I no longer listen to popular radio with her in the car because while I am not about to start telling radio stations they can't play that (totally stupid) S&M song, I don't want my daughter hearing it.  It's my job to teach her our values as a family and our values as a family say that sex is a private thing between adults, not something we use to get attention or for shock value.  I have gone out of my way to find music for her that she can listen to.  It's not easy but we've found some things.  Thank goodness for the iPod, we can just pick and choose.  For instance, she LOVES Born This Way, Firework, and F*ing Perfect (edited version) but the rest of those CD probably wouldn't be ok for her.

 

I can't help what she hears from other kids or when she's not with me, but I try very hard to explain to her why certain songs aren't appropriate for her - not because they're about some secret thing she can't know about, but because they say horrible things about women, promote violence, etc.

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#7 of 74 Old 04-03-2011, 10:14 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I have certainly thought about how my parents disapproved of certain music and their parents disapproved of certain music but it seems like the music industry has taken it as far as it could go-- what could be worse than the images in some of the songs- and my 10 yo or any child less than say 15 or 16 should not be listening to songs that want you to pound alcohol until you are incoherent or beat women, and she likes it--- please! maybe parents didn't like Elvis shaking his hips- but this stuff in songs today is so gross----these people need serious psychothereapy--- and it's all over the radio- i wish i could say "We don't listen to the radio" or we only listen to NPR. My boy is a force to be reckoned with and i am trying very hard to keep connected to him- to outlaw the radio would be terrible for our relationship-- and impossible---

And whatever about women expressing their sexuallity- let them do it somewhere else than on the pop radio station that families listen to--- S&M-- whips and chains?? It's already been banned in many countries....no thanks- but it's out there and now I have to deal with it- I don't know what the next generation of music could contain if it is going to push the envelope more than this---

and yes, he likes the beat of the music but he knows EVERY single word of the songs-- every single one-

Isn't there a parent protest group i can join? Do you know of any?


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#8 of 74 Old 04-03-2011, 10:28 AM
 
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My son is in middle school and all the kids are listening to this kind of pop music and stuff that is even more sexual (like some of the rap). To forbid him from listening to it would only cause friction in our relationship and cause him to feel ostracized. What we do however is expose him to other types of music as well, all kinds, from classical to jazz to various ethic or “world’ music to classical and alternative rock. He also likes a lot of it and has come to the conclusion on his own that a lot of the pop music is not very artistic.

And yep, rock IS very sexual too!  In the 50s Elvis was banned from dancing on TV and in general rock and roll was considered to cause deviant behaviour in youths

 

 

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#9 of 74 Old 04-03-2011, 12:09 PM - Thread Starter
 
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But is anyone seeing how this is os different from hip thrusts and gyrating??

This is messed up - epople hurting each other and liking it- and drinking until you are wasted-- this is different--- what could be worse than some of these images... how could it get worse?


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#10 of 74 Old 04-03-2011, 01:11 PM
 
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Remember Run for your Life by the Beatles?  Hey Joe by Jimi Hendrix?  Both songs about men killing girlfriends because they went with other men.  Folsom Prison Blues by Johnny Cash?  He shot a man in Reno "just to watch him die".  Ever hear some of the 2LIve Crew's music?  There are tons of other examples.  This type of music has always been around, maybe you just notice it now because you have a child to protect. 

 

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#11 of 74 Old 04-03-2011, 01:25 PM
 
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What enkmon said (as well as some other posters too).

 

I also want to add, as a musician it scares me to hear about wanting to get involved with actively protesting a song or type of music just because you are offended with it. It is not up to you to police what people listen to, or what they can access. Whether you like it or not, those performers have every right to write, record, and distribute that music.

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#12 of 74 Old 04-03-2011, 01:42 PM
 
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I think trying to protest what artists are putting out is as disturbing as some of the music that you have a problem with. Obviously, you have the right to do it. However, you're the parent in your house and if you don't like what your child is listening to, you can choose to ban it from your house. That wouldn't be my approach, because I think that would shut down communication on some of these issues. For example, while I don't think the Rhianna/Eminem you're talking about is actually advocating abuse within a relationship, I think it's a fairly accurate representation of the cycle of abuse/love/abuse/obsession/love/abuse etc etc that does exist in some relationships - and if my 10 yo son was listening to that, it would serve as a good starting point to talk to him about those issues. And S&M? Well, I guess my gen's equivalent would be Depeche Mode's "Master and Servant" - and I wasn't much older than 10 the first time I heard it. I still love that song, and I don't think it's messed me up *too" much.
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#13 of 74 Old 04-03-2011, 01:57 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Karalina View Post

But is anyone seeing how this is os different from hip thrusts and gyrating??

This is messed up - epople hurting each other and liking it- and drinking until you are wasted-- this is different--- what could be worse than some of these images... how could it get worse?



I was a metalhead in the 80s...graduated from high school 25 years ago this June. And, I listened to music about people hurting each other. I listened to lots of music about people gettings wasted. Check out lyrics from Judas Priest - "Eat me Alive" comes to mind. That song came out in 1984. Motley Crue were huge back then, and pretty much all their songs were about violence, sex and/or partying. Look at stuff from W.A.S.P. (at least one song title that I can't type on MDC). Heck - check out 22 Acacia Avenue, by Iron Maiden (my favourite band of all time, and the song does operate on two levels, imo) - it's pretty raw.

 

I heard people in 1983 saying "they can't go any farther than this - they've pushed it to the absolute limit". That's almost 30 years ago. Back in 1967, my mom was genuinely shocked to hear The Doors singing "Light my Fire" on the radio. She's pretty open minded, but she was concerned about her kids hearing stuff like that. My grandmother was truly horrified by The Beatles (although I suspect that had more to do with their image than their content...grandma was all about image).

 

I haven't heard S&M. I have no interest in hearing it, to be honest. I'm quite sure I wouldn't like it at all. But, it's not new, yk? Rock, pop, hip-hop, etc. have been pushing the boundaries for a long, long time...and as boundaries get pushed back, they have to go farther to push them.


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#14 of 74 Old 04-03-2011, 02:23 PM
 
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I think being overly-concerned is giving the music and lyrics too much power.  Our kids can think for themselves.  They aren't going to believe domestic violence is okay just because they hear about it from a song on the radio;  if they live it and see it condoned, well, that's a different story.  

 

I spent most of my teen years listening to and loving 2pac.  I promise I am not a gangster as a result. 


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#15 of 74 Old 04-03-2011, 02:28 PM
 
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Karalina,

 

I think it would be easier  if you could try to pinpoint exactly what it is you are afraid of happening because of your sons exposure to music with lyrics you disapprove of. Do you think he will internalize it?  Are you worried that he will harm himself or others?  Are you afraid he will make bad relationship choices?   That he will get involved with someone sexually before he is mature enough to handle the emotional impact?

 

Is your son easily influenced by others? Does he have trouble with boundaries?  Does he allow others to take advantage of him even when he disagrees?

 

If you answered no, try to feel a little better because the music won't make him do anything,  at worst it might normalize a cultural viewpoint you disagree with. 

 

When I was a child my mom took me to the Opera. Trust me it's chock full of tragic awful messages of violence and loving someone despite abuse, murder, deception etc.  These topics have been the subject of popular culture for centuries. Or how about classic Shakespearean plays?  They can get very crude.  I think others in this thread are pointing this out to you so that you can look at the situation more objectively.

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#16 of 74 Old 04-03-2011, 02:32 PM
 
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Back in 1967, my mom was genuinely shocked to hear The Doors singing "Light my Fire" on the radio. She's pretty open minded, but she was concerned about her kids hearing stuff like that. My grandmother was truly horrified by The Beatles (although I suspect that had more to do with their image than their content...grandma was all about image).


Exactly my point. That same Mom of mine (now 80)? Has actively asked my son to cut her some CDs with music he likes so she can listen to it. He as, though the years, listened to almost any genre you could think of. Some of it pretty raw and horrific. She listens to it all, and then tells him what she likes and what she doesn't. (Same mother who took issue with my listening to John Denver and Shawn Cassidy....) She prints out the lyrics, follows along, etc. And they have some really interesting discussions about it all. (So do we, but it's different.) And... it spurred him to listen to some of what she likes. Now? He's studying composition, with a focus on modern atonal classical music. Who knows where things lead...

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#17 of 74 Old 04-03-2011, 03:33 PM
 
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#18 of 74 Old 04-04-2011, 09:07 AM
 
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I was just discussing the issue of music/lyrics with DH the other day.  There are some songs that the boys and I like, and I couldn't decide if it was better to get a clean version of a song, or just not get the song.  For example, the Cee Lo song.  They did a clean version of it.  A Glee version of it.  And, then the original.  The original has the F-word.

 

Now, I also have 3 boys.  2 of them are old enough to be more interested in the music I listen to, including my 11 1/2 year old.  The 3rd is a toddler ..... so, he would be happy with most anything.

 

But, the issues for me aren't necessarily the words, in a way that I think they are sitting there thinking about all the lyrics and the implications.  At this point, my boys are looking for a way to get away with, and giggle about, swearing.  

 

So, while I have my own thoughts about being authentic and listening to an original version, as opposed to an altered version of anything, I also am not interested in providing my boys with a way to run around using profanity that I prohibit, and then giggling all darn day about it.  

 

Also, and I will date myself, I have more issues these days with videos.  For me, having grown up with the beginnings of MTV, and seeing the evolution of videos, I think the visuals, at least to my boys, are worse.  It is true we had things from a lot of bands that had suggestive lyrics, gyrating big hair men and women, and some stuff that made our parents think "OMG!".... but, I think that these days if a group could put their music to something that would get classified as porn, they would.  There is very little left to the imagination.  And, I am not a prude when it comes to nudity or sex, but I think that there is nothing creative about having women wearing as little as they can possibly get away with, engaged in what basically is grinding and mimicking sexual activity.

 

All that said, I have no qualms in being the one that loads my kids' ipods, which I just redid their playlists and reloaded new stuff this weekend.  I also don't let them have carte blanch access to the computer, internet, and especially youtube.  They have rules and restrictions on a whole host of things, including various media, that I know their friends don't.  And I am fine with that.  Because, we aren't supposed to give up on trying to protect our kids from "garbage" - especially in our own home.

 

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#19 of 74 Old 04-04-2011, 10:01 AM
 
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You know, I think we, as adults, tend to overestimate our kids abilities to get below the surface of the media they are exposed to.  When I was a kid, I LOVED The Goonies.  Loved it.  Then, I hadn't seen it through most of my teen years and even into my early 20s.  The first time my oldest saw it she was I think 7 or 8, I was excited to watch it with her, for me it was one of those classic type movies that you share with your kids.  I was 25 or 26, so it had been at least a decade or more since I had seen it.  OMG I was SHOCKED at how "scarey" I thought it was for kids.  I was really afraid it was going to freak her out, with the hand in the blender, the dead pirate skeletons with daggers in their eyes etc.  But as I thought about it...none of that phased me when I was a kid.  I mean I saw it, but it wasn't something I interalized or anything.

 

Dirty Dancing...ah, Dirty Dancing.  It was like 20 years before I ever realized that they were talking about an abortion.  And the dancing...when I was a kid it was just dancing.  When I watched it as an adult...it was DIRTY dancing lol

 

 

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#20 of 74 Old 04-04-2011, 10:26 AM
 
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Ah yes, Dirty Dancing. That movie came out when I was 10, I think. I watched that thing over and over again. lol.gif
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#21 of 74 Old 04-04-2011, 12:25 PM
 
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Karalina,

You did not mention where your kids heard these songs. If on the radio, try and find a  radio station that plays other things besides the top 10

did you boys buy the cd or download the tune?

If that is the case I don't think you can really get rid of it now, but you can expose your kids to different music and there is so much good music out there to listen to!

as I mentioned in my previous post, one my son discovered some of the other types good music out there he started liking all the top 10 hits a lot less.

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#22 of 74 Old 04-04-2011, 12:49 PM
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Isn't this an age-old issue? Our grandparents didn't like what our parents listened to, our parents didn't like what we listened to, and now we don't like what our kids listen to.

 

I found that it was helpful to find out what it is about the songs that they like - I can almost guarantee that the lyrics don't figure high on the list.


Yeah. I remember people thought rock and roll was satanic or something. Of course I was alive during the 60s. Parents were disturbed by all the free love and drug references back then. My 5 year old really likes swing, Glen ****** specifically, and some old rock stuff on one of our mix cds. We don't listen to the radio much, so she hears a mix of electronica, old rock, hip hop, alternative, world fusion, swing and techno. We do censor what she hears when she's with us. I don't think most pop is serious enough to worry about content, but there are some Tool and System of a Down Songs, for example, that are too discordant for small children. Angst and discord are for teens not preschoolers. Once she's older we'll stop the censoring.

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#23 of 74 Old 04-04-2011, 02:25 PM
 
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Very good example - not sure why I didn't think of it.


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#24 of 74 Old 04-04-2011, 03:50 PM - Thread Starter
 
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The question was asked "What is it you are afraid of"? that is a good question to ponder- off the cuff- I'd have to say that at 10- I have the opinion that kids' minds should be innocent of abuse, and people hurting each other for fun- or for abuse. and the outright sex mimicking--- I have provided my child with every reasonable good thing and protection i could for almost 11 years-- the good, the pure, and the beautiful.  This is just such a major letdown as a parent. It is like throwing a beautiful piece of artwork you have cherish and loved into a mudpit-- it hurts to see it---- I KNOW my child is not an object-- I am just saying metaphorically ---

I'll have to think some more about what it is specifically I am afraid of.........


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#25 of 74 Old 04-04-2011, 03:52 PM - Thread Starter
 
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And he would rather die than hear my music--- he is all about the top 10 radio stations and whet they play at the roller rink and what his friends listen to at this point- but i will keep it in mind for the future-


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#26 of 74 Old 04-04-2011, 04:03 PM
 
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I get you. I'm shocked sometimes, too. It seems like life is really a little rough and ragged around the edges lately. But I have shared my concerns with my kids and when we hear something like that together, we talk about it. The sexy/slutty stuff bothers me less than the misogynistic stuff. I was in the skateboard shop recently with my teenage son and a rap song came on in which the fellow said he'd slap the bitch up if she didn't blow him well. I had a long conversation on the van ride home with my son and his friend about that. Stressing that good sex was consensual and that the lady should get her pleasure, too. Whew! Parenting gets odder all the time.
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#27 of 74 Old 04-04-2011, 04:31 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Karalina View Post

The question was asked "What is it you are afraid of"? that is a good question to ponder- off the cuff- I'd have to say that at 10- I have the opinion that kids' minds should be innocent of abuse, and people hurting each other for fun- or for abuse. and the outright sex mimicking--- I have provided my child with every reasonable good thing and protection i could for almost 11 years-- the good, the pure, and the beautiful.  This is just such a major letdown as a parent. It is like throwing a beautiful piece of artwork you have cherish and loved into a mudpit-- it hurts to see it---- I KNOW my child is not an object-- I am just saying metaphorically ---

I'll have to think some more about what it is specifically I am afraid of.........


Speaking metaphorically, you haven't thrown that pieces of artwork into a mudpit. If you gave up on your son and decided that he is beyond help and let him do those sorts of things, then you have "thrown the artwork away". But you haven't and I doubt you ever will.

 

I was listening to some fairly non-innocent things before I was ten. I know many people who have been exposed to non-innocent things before they were ten. None of us lost our innocence because of it, or were damaged because of it. We were all raised by parents who understood that no matter what we were exposed to (songs like the ones mentioned above for me and some friends, movies like Psycho or Cheech and Chong for some of my friends, etc) they themselves were the number one influence on their children's lives.  And just like that, I have seen parents who did everything to filter out what they found objectionable end up with children who did loose their innocence early and in one case the parents did toss out that artwork because it had been "contaminated". Which is a shame because their son is a truly wonderful person.

 

Along with thinking about what scares you so much, you need to consider the difference between protecting your children from the bad things in the world and teaching them to not let these things affect how they live their life. If only because there is only so much you can protect them from and eventually they are going to have to deal with it without you there to help.

 


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#28 of 74 Old 04-04-2011, 04:31 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm Bride View Post





Very good example - not sure why I didn't think of it.

 

I probably wouldn't have either, but I was listening to it at the time.
 

 


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#29 of 74 Old 04-04-2011, 05:18 PM - Thread Starter
 
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This conversation is really enlightening for me.

I fully realize I am going to completely burn myself out by the time he's 11 if I don't change my perspective. I really appreciate and value the opinions of other mothers here on this board.

Does it seem like teenage years are starting earlier?

 


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#30 of 74 Old 04-04-2011, 05:19 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Oh, and you were right- I would never give up on my boys for anything- it's so not about a judgement or an appearance for me- it is really my concern for his heart and his mind.


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