Cervical Cancer vaccinations? For 12yos? - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 51 Old 09-14-2011, 11:53 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I was wondering if anyone here had any information on the subject of cervical cancer vaccinations? Im needing info on the human papillomavirus as well. Is it strictly a sexually transmitted disease. Im clueless. Is there anyone here who's allowed their dd to recieve the vaccine? Would you mind sharing your thoughts on the subject?

 

Thanks!!

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#2 of 51 Old 09-15-2011, 02:58 AM
 
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I got my daughter vaccinated  w/ Cervarix last year.  She was 14. Only side effect was some pain in the injection area (upper arm) for a day or so afterwards, and a bit of fatigue that day.

 

Yes, HPV is sexually transmitted, but it's better to be vaccinated *before* becoming sexually active.

 

http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/medicines/100005151.html

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cervarix

 

I'm in general pro-vaccination and had both my kids vaccinated on the schedule recommended by the Hong Kong government. So, I did not worry about having her take the vaccine.

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#3 of 51 Old 09-15-2011, 04:25 AM
 
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This has been on my mind a lot.  I searched the vax forums, but haven't seen much that's helpful.  I want info too.  I'd like to hear how other families have approached this, either choosing or not choosing, and what the discussions with their dd's were like.  Were they a part of the conversation/choice, or not?

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#4 of 51 Old 09-15-2011, 05:04 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I didnt even think to post it in the vax section (duh), I just thought here would be appropriate bc it was about my preteen girls. I did some research after I posted this and realised hpv is sexually transmitted. I discussed this with my girls and we decided together that they wouldnt need to be vaccinated. This was my main concern, whether it was strictly to deal with sexual activity or was it something like any other cancer that is hereditary or anything like that.

 

Thanks, im interested in any discussion on the subject still.

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#5 of 51 Old 09-15-2011, 06:15 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by genifer View Post

I did some research after I posted this and realised hpv is sexually transmitted. I discussed this with my girls and we decided together that they wouldnt need to be vaccinated.

It is sexually transmitted, but it can still be transmitted even when a condom is used and doesn't break, through the skin contact not covered by the condom. It's also extremely common, by the age of 50 more than 80% of American women will have contracted at least one strain of genital HPV. (not necessarily one of the strains covered by the vaccine)

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#6 of 51 Old 09-15-2011, 06:41 AM
 
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http://www.mothering.com/community/t/1317024/ca-bill-ab-499-would-allow-12-year-olds-to-consent-to-certain-vaccines-without-parental-knowledge

 

There is an active discussion going on about Guardasil and the like right now.  Scroll through it - some of the good stuff is towards the bottom.  

 

It is worth noting that a couple of posters who are selactive/delayed are against the vax.  I tend to find selectives/delayed pretty moderate in approach.  This is one controversial vaccine!

 

______________

 

This is a timely thread for me.  DD came home yesterday with the permission form for Guardasil.  The public health nurse goes to the school and vaxxes kids there in this part of the world.  I refused.

 

While I have never really had a discussion on vaccines before with DD - I did last night.  It is tricky because as a non-vaxxer I am aware of my own bias, so to speak.  I showed her a article the CBS had printed - which is pretty mainstream, I think, but still laid out the issues I had.  I wanted to show her an article so she would realise lots of people had concerns about this vaccine - not just her parents.

 

Thankfully, her and I are on the same page.  She does not want the vax.  Had she wanted the vax, I would have told her that I was not comfortable at this point allowing the shot.  I would tell her that she could get the shot when she was 15 or 16+ (and I would pay for it - it is free here to grade 8 girls only eyesroll.gif) but that if she wanted the shot she would have to research the pros and cons thoroughly.  I have done the research and made a decision - if she wants to have responsability for making health decisions prior to age 18 she would have to take up the job of researching.

 

I also discussed the risk factors for cervical cancer - because there are some and they are somewhat controllable.  There are other ways to reduce risk.

 

 

It did cross my mind that I hope she does not go to school and tell all her friends that the vax is dangerous! The parents and staff will thank me for thatwinky.gif  

 

 

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#7 of 51 Old 09-15-2011, 06:45 AM
 
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Yeah I'm on the fence about this one. It has not been out long enough to show it's effectiveness.
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#8 of 51 Old 09-15-2011, 10:10 AM - Thread Starter
 
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 There are other ways to reduce risk.

Yes, this. Im still mulling it over, but the more and more I read about it, the more Im becoming convinced that its not a good thing for us.

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#9 of 51 Old 09-15-2011, 10:23 AM
 
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My daughter was in high school when the vaccine became commonly available, and at 16 I felt the decision was primarily up to her.  We discussed it thoroughly, both the pros and the cons.  She has had all of her other vaccinations, but she chose not to have the Gardasil vaccine. It was still very new and very controversial, but she follows the information closely and has not changed her mind (she is still within the age parameters to get vaccinated if she chooses to).  Most of her friends were vaccinated immediately with no discussion; some of them would not have done it if the choice had been theirs. 

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#10 of 51 Old 09-15-2011, 10:31 AM
 
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Originally Posted by genifer View Post

 

Yes, this. Im still mulling it over, but the more and more I read about it, the more Im becoming convinced that its not a good thing for us.



Could you say more about your concerns?

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#11 of 51 Old 09-15-2011, 10:45 AM
 
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Providing children with life-long immunity for particular diseases is how innoculation works, both in theory and practice.

 

Givng children innoculations for HPV at age 12 doesn't mean they are going to be having sex at age 12.  It just means their immune system will be ready for particular STD's when they are sexually active.

 

Instead of being spooked by it, why not look at it as a chance to discuss sex with your kids when they are ready to talk to you?

 

 

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#12 of 51 Old 09-15-2011, 10:58 AM
 
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yeah... you could talk to your kids or do what my mom did and give me a book about STD's... that was my sex ed. I'm still not sure vaccinating for a what if is necessarily a good plan when it comes to vaccinations that are related to sex.
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#13 of 51 Old 09-15-2011, 11:04 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bestjob View Post

Providing children with life-long immunity for particular diseases is how innoculation works, both in theory and practice.

 

Givng children innoculations for HPV at age 12 doesn't mean they are going to be having sex at age 12.  It just means their immune system will be ready for particular STD's when they are sexually active.

 

Instead of being spooked by it, why not look at it as a chance to discuss sex with your kids when they are ready to talk to you?

 

 



You seem to be making some assumptions about the motivations people have to not have this vaccine given to their children.  For example, here it is recommended at 11.  Since it is a relatively new vaccine and my child is not close to being exposed, we are waiting.  She is now 12.5 and while I assume that she will be vacicnated in the next 4-5 years, it doesn't make me think that she should have been 18 months ago.  Earlier is not always better.  I am not "spooked" and we have (and continue to have) conversations about sex.  My keeping information from my DD really has nothing to do with our avoidance of this vaccine.

 


 

 

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#14 of 51 Old 09-15-2011, 11:06 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bestjob View Post

Providing children with life-long immunity for particular diseases is how innoculation works, both in theory and practice.

 

Givng children innoculations for HPV at age 12 doesn't mean they are going to be having sex at age 12.  It just means their immune system will be ready for particular STD's when they are sexually active.

 

Instead of being spooked by it, why not look at it as a chance to discuss sex with your kids when they are ready to talk to you?

 

 

From medscape:


 

 

Ceravix is a bivalent vaccine, active against HPV types 16 and 18, which together are thought to be responsible for about 70% of all cervical cancer cases. However, data from clinical trials presented at the committee meeting suggested that the vaccine also offers protection against other virus types responsible for causing cervical cancer, including HPV types 31, 33, and 45, the next most common cancer-causing strains. In addition, the data presented showed a duration of immunity of 6.4 years.

In contrast, Gardasil is a quadrivalent vaccine with activity against 4 HPV types: HPV types 16 and 18, which cause cervical cancer, and HPV types 6 and 11, which cause genital warts. This extra activity means that this vaccine is also indicated for the prevention of genital warts in girls and women, and it has now been recommended for that same indication for boys and men. However, the current data on Gardasil in males extends only out 2 to 3 years, and in women extends only out 5 years.

The immunity is not life long as far as we know.

 
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#15 of 51 Old 09-15-2011, 03:03 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Could you say more about your concerns?

 

 

Sure. I feel that its too new of a vaccine to know all there is to know about it. This whole thing was just sprung on us. The school nurse came into school and gave my girls (all girls in their class) some information about it, but not a whole lot. My girls came home telling me they needed to get a vaccine to prevent cervical cancer, thats how they put it. The school nurse told the girls that it is HIGHLY recommend they get the vaccine... without giving us a whole lot of info about it. From what I get by my girls reaction to the 'presentation' I feel they are being pressured to have the vaccine. I do have until October to do all the research I need to do before I make my final decision, but I dont see that there is a need to rush it for my girls. I want to really think this thru. The research Ive been doing is not looking good. It mentions siezures, brain damage, all sorts.

 

 

 

Ill be honest with you. Im ready to be flamed and blasted here but we teach our kids that the best protection against sexually transmitted diseases and unwanted pregnancies is to practice abstinence. That its nothing to be ashamed of, waiting to have sex, even if plenty of their peers are doing it. Now, if they wait till marriage, which I do not believe is beyond the realm of possibility, it isnt impossible, if they also marry someone who is a virgin, what are their chances of getting the form of cervical cancer that is 'prevented' by this vaccine? If their husbands had been promiscuous, does this increase their chances of getting it, would he be able to be tested for these sorts of diseases. These are the things I, as their mother, need to consider before I allow them, at the age of 12, to get a vaccine that is reletively new and very controvercial, one that *I* dont have enough information on. I would need to weigh up the pros and cons here. Thats the angle Im coming from.

 

Fwiw, we have used it as an opportunity to discuss sex and sexual relationships. I dont spook my kids, but I do lay out all the cards on the table. I do HIGHLY recommend they wait to have sex, and I do recommend that it IS best for them to wait till marriage. It is such a personal thing and I know its not a very popular thing to advocate these days but ... hey, this is us.

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#16 of 51 Old 09-15-2011, 05:12 PM
 
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You won't get blasted by me. It's honestly the best way to NOT to get an STD. Yeah kids will be kids, but educated kids might not come down with a case of Clap or even worse. I think it's very good to teach safe sex and abstinence together. Yeah you can have all the sex you want, however you're just increasing your odds. And very few people at that age will know if they're carrying something. Some will willingly continue. Not a fact just an observation. One girl in our school was caught for knowingly passing around some unwanted friends. Knowingly because she admitted trying to get back at some people for teasing her... heck yes that's a great mentality.
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#17 of 51 Old 09-15-2011, 05:17 PM
 
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According to the CDC,

As of June 22, 2011 there have been a total 68 VAERS reports of death among those who have received Gardasil® .

 

Of course, they say that the deaths may not have been due to the shot, but healthy 12-25 year olds don't typically just die of no other reason.  To me, the risk is absolutely not worth the hypothetical benefits, and I hope this vaccine is recalled before more young people are killed or irreversibly damaged by it.

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#18 of 51 Old 09-15-2011, 07:58 PM
 
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No blasting here, either. My ex took our daughter for it when it first came out. As soon as I found out (she'd only had the first shot), I made it very clear to the ped he took her to that I would take her to court for treating my child against our court order if I found out that she had continued the course of shots OR provided any treatment w/o my agreement.

 

Having said that... As she's going off to college next year, I may rethink the situation.

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#19 of 51 Old 09-16-2011, 07:24 AM
 
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Pretty much every one has sex eventually. Even if they wait until they are married. The idea that one is protected by just never having sex doesn't make sense to me. Very, very few people go through their whole lives having sex with only one person who has only ever had sex with them (even couples to start out that way don't necessary stay that way).

 

I know way to many couples (even church going couples) who have split because of screwing around.

 

I think telling our teens "if you wait to have sex until you are married you will be safe" is a lie. A big fat lie. I think basing health care choices on an untruth is irresponsible.

 

It is true that until one becomes sexually active, there are a bunch of health concerns they don't have to worry about it. But I don't see it as a long term plan. I don't see marriage as the answer.

 

I think this choice really comes down to whether or not one feels the vaccine is safe enough. I think it's safer than riding in a car, and we do that all the time.

 


but everything has pros and cons  shrug.gif

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#20 of 51 Old 09-16-2011, 07:38 AM
 
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You're right Linda, however telling them to wait til they can make an informed decision on their own health is a good thing too. 12 doesn't understand the life long severity of not taking precautions. Of course I won't tell my kids they have to wait til they get married. I'll certainly make sure they are completely informed. They will know about the vaccine, the benefits and the side effects. I won't tell them waiting is the end all answer, however it does help in some ways.
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#21 of 51 Old 09-16-2011, 07:50 AM
 
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I don't know.

 

Of course people are going to have sex, and many of them will have more than one partner, start younger than others, etc.

 

However, I think everyone should know the consequences of their behaviour. IMNSHO  there are numerous good reasons to avoid early sexual activity and many sexual partners.  I get my girls may make different decisions than I have in this regard, but they should know the information.  

 

Early sexual experience and multiple sex partners are linked with increased risk of cervical cancer (among other things).  So is smoking.  
Condoms may reduce risk.

 

I agree with you that the choice to vaccinate or not should come down to how safe and effective you think the vax is.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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#22 of 51 Old 09-16-2011, 08:06 AM
 
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The problem with the issue of whether or not it's "safe" is that it is so new that long-term effects are not known yet.

 

http://healthimpactnews.com/2011/sane-vax-inc-discovers-potential-bio-hazard-contaminant-in-merck%E2%80%99s-gardasil%E2%84%A2-hpv-4-vaccine/


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#23 of 51 Old 09-16-2011, 08:37 AM
 
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Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post

 

However, I think everyone should know the consequences of their behaviour. IMNSHO  there are numerous good reasons to avoid early sexual activity and many sexual partners.


I totally agree with you and my DD's and I have very open conversations about this.

 

But they are conversations, not lectures with answers.

 

There are lots of reasons to delay sex until adulthood, and I personally think the best reasons are emotional reasons rather than biological reasons. For teens who have sex using 2 forms of birthcontrol, one of them being a condemn, the biological risk are extremely low. But there are still good reasons to delay.

 

None the less, this is a deeply personally decision that each of our teens will make for his/her self. Not something we can decide or take credit for, and not something I personally think is wise to make health care choices based on.

 

Because even if they delay, they can still be exposed once they are adults. Even once they are married.


but everything has pros and cons  shrug.gif

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#24 of 51 Old 09-16-2011, 09:13 AM
 
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Obviously people will eventually have sex, but one needn't throw up their hands and say "teens will be teens!" Yes, some teens will be sexually active, and some will not. Luckily, both of mine and I have a good enough relationship to be able to talk about issues openly, honestly and w/o rancor or judgment. My youngest (17) knows I'd prefer her to wait a whiel yet, but she also knows that if she chooses otherwise, all she has to do is let me know and I will help her choose how best to protect herself.

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#25 of 51 Old 09-16-2011, 11:06 AM
 
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At this point as long as I don't use my mothers vast knowledge about sex... I'm golden

You can get pregnant by kissing
You can get a sick vagina, by touching it. Any touching at all!
You can die from having sex.
Everyone will know if you had sex, because you'll look dirty and smell bad.
You will go to hell if you have sex before you get married, and no amount of repenting will get you out of that one.
Only a married couple can have a normal baby, all others will be evil. (that means you may be getting a sick vagina if it was touched... what to do, what to do...)
Bastard children will cause you hardship and suffering you deserve, and god will not love you anymore. But he will pity you and I will have to pity you too.

There are more and when I bring this up to my mother she laughs about it. She thought scaring me would make me not do it. Or maybe she believed it after getting a case of the sick vagina...
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#26 of 51 Old 09-16-2011, 11:16 AM
 
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No, we will be refusing both Cervavix and Gardisil. Gardisil especailly is so dangerous that its been banned by France, Spain and India because of healthy girls dropping dead after the shot.

We also have a young friend who used to be a swimmer, runner and do lacrosse... now she feels ill all the time and has panic attacks. Her high school life is now a living hell. The symptoms started withing hours after her second shot.


Instead, my teen daughter has regular well women care by ourl CNM that we both adore.
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#27 of 51 Old 09-16-2011, 11:20 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
You can get pregnant by kissing
You can get a sick vagina, by touching it. Any touching at all!
You can die from having sex.
Everyone will know if you had sex, because you'll look dirty and smell bad.
You will go to hell if you have sex before you get married, and no amount of repenting will get you out of that one.
Only a married couple can have a normal baby, all others will be evil. (that means you may be getting a sick vagina if it was touched... what to do, what to do...)
Bastard children will cause you hardship and suffering you deserve, and god will not love you anymore. But he will pity you and I will have to pity you too.

There are more and when I bring this up to my mother she laughs about it. She thought scaring me would make me not do it. Or maybe she believed it after getting a case of the sick vagina...

Omg...spitdrink.gif Im not sure if its appropriate to laugh or not but...

 

Wait a minute!!

Did it work tho?!?! I was all concerned about what I should be telling my girls! I totally forgot to mention a sick vagina!! They're at youth club, Im gonna text them RIGHT NOW!!!

 

I have a 10 yo son too, whats your mom's advice to pubescent boys?

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#28 of 51 Old 09-16-2011, 01:15 PM
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My oldest (a boy) will definitely get the vaccine in 2 years when he is the right age. My second son and my daughter will get it as well. HPV is VERY prevalent and linked to many types of cancer as well as warts (genital and occasionally oral/throat). I have many friends who have had to have surgeries on their cervices and throats due to HPV. The vaccine carries few risks and HPV carries many-- I'm nowhere near the fence on this one. 

I also plan to teach my kids that the best protection against pregnancy and STDs is abstinence (I have already told my school-aged kids this) but I also plan to arm them with knowledge of other ways to prevent pregnancy and STDs for whenever they choose to be sexually active.

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#29 of 51 Old 09-16-2011, 01:38 PM
 
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Anyone have any numbers on how Gardasil weighs up against regular pap smears? When I was 23, I had pre-cancerous cervical cells discovered following a pap smear. They biopsied and froze them off and I had much more frequent paps for a number of years afterwards, until they started to consistently come back normal. So, IME, the paps are a pretty good way to handle the risk as well. I am old enough to be pre-gardasil :)

 

 

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#30 of 51 Old 09-16-2011, 03:48 PM
 
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Anyone have any numbers on how Gardasil weighs up against regular pap smears? When I was 23, I had pre-cancerous cervical cells discovered following a pap smear. They biopsied and froze them off and I had much more frequent paps for a number of years afterwards, until they started to consistently come back normal. So, IME, the paps are a pretty good way to handle the risk as well. I am old enough to be pre-gardasil :)

 

 


A couple of years back I had a project on cervarix (I'm a translator), so I had to research it a lot. Pap smears are very effective in detecting lesions and abnormal cells, however the concern is that most young girls may not be comfortable asking their parents to take them to an OB/GYN, or usually make little of the importance of such a test, etc. so any lesions are allowed to progress to the point where they are no longer treatable. The main thought is that the vaccine would be preventative, as opposed to a pap smear which is more diagnostic.

 

The rationale for this vaccine is quite sound I guess, and it is the only preventative option for cancer available right now. If I had a daughter that would be old enough to have it now though, I too would be concerned about how new this vaccine is and the fact that it has not been given to the population long enough to positively know if there are any issues with it.

 

The vaccine is especially recommended for young girls who have not had sex yet, as well as those who have not had multiple partners (that reduces the risk of them having already contracted the virus). However, their makers claim that all young women up to the age of approx. 27 (where they supposedly go steady with a partner Sheepish.gif) may benefit from it.

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