Homework, Grades, and Consequences - Mothering Forums

Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
#1 of 30 Old 10-05-2011, 10:01 PM - Thread Starter
 
lulahigley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 10
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

I want to know if we are being too hard on our daughter about homework, grades, and consequences. She is twelve and in the sixth grade. Let me first describe our routine and rules, etc. Then I will describe how that is not working. First, when it comes to grades, she is expected to get C's. The consequence for not having C's is loss of privileges (which is telephone, TV, computer use, and video games), which also means, no outings or activities on the weekends (school party, movie theater, etc.). C's are rewarded with going out on the weekends and doing something fun. Homework must get done every day before she may have privileges. A's and B's are rewarded with a small prize or going out for ice cream. Her school is pretty good when it comes to academics, they really help the kids acheive their best, and they get multiple chances to correct wrong answers, turn in missing assigments late, etc.

 

The problem is that every night is a battle with getting her to do her homework. She lays on the floor of the kitchen or living room, singing, whistling, playing with the dog or cat, basically procrastinating in every way possible and trying to annoy us too. We are doing dishes, making dinner, doing things around the house, paying bills. My husband and I both work full time jobs. We finally bought her a desk and told her to go do her homework in her room. When it's time for us to sit down and relax a bit, maybe read a book or the paper, she wants help with her homework, you explain the assignment to her, she fishes around to try to get you to give her the answer and wants YOU to look up a word in the dictionary, etc. She carries on about how she doesn't understand the assignment when I have spoken to her teachers who have said that they have explained the assignment over and over very clearly and there are also clear written instructions. So now she is mad and doesn't want to do it, says she'll "save it" for tomorrow, do it during recess, which never happens. So she tries to watch TV and is sent to her room, she slams the door. Now she grounded to her room for the rest of the night, homework never gets done.

 

She has D's and F's and not getting to go anywhere on the weekends or see her friends is no problem for her for some reason. I keep telling her I want to go do this or that with her, but it doesn't seem to motivate her at all. We are getting a sitter so we can go out by ourselves, and tell her maybe next time she can go with us if she gets her grades up. One weekend she did get up to C's and we took her roller skating. But now they have fallen down to D's again. Her teachers are available for tutoring before and after school. We even went together before school and her teacher gave her extra credit to get her grade back up but she didn't do it.

 

What are some good consequences that have worked? Are we approaching this the wrong way? Why doesn't she seem motivated? How long will it take before she "get's it"? How long before she realizes that we are not going to give in? She has been at this school for 2 months now.

lulahigley is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
#2 of 30 Old 10-06-2011, 01:17 AM
 
whatsnextmom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,967
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)

Have you considered a private tutor for her? Someone experienced to sit next to her for a bit? She might benefit from some specialized academic attention and you all might benefit from having someone else handle the homework issues at least once or twice a week. 

 

Rewards are good for kids who need to get over a personal hurdle but it only works in the short term. Appropriate consequences for a child suddenly making poor choices can get their attention and turn them around. However, if this is a long term problem, I'd be cautious. I'm not saying she should get free reign when she's not doing her part but I'd be careful not to let this be a power struggle for which she chooses to isolate herself from the family just to "win." Make sure you are still connecting with her, still doing fun things with her as a family. If she has something she loves to do, don't take that away. You can't teach self-motivation by taking away the activities she's actually most motivated to do. Spending time with her can't be a reward... it's just family. You don't have to go rollerskating of course, but make sure you're still cooking with her, playing games on the weekends, talking about books, ect.

 

How does your DD feel about school in general? You don't mention if this is a new problem or not. Have you been having other issues related to puberty, hormones, ect?

 

I do feel for you. I grew up in a house where every night was a battle to get my little brother to do his homework. He's an extreme case and I don't think sharing that scenario with help you but I do understand the stress it puts on a family. I'm grateful not to have these issues with my kids because I really don't think I could live through it again!


Married mom of two, DD 17 and DS 13.
whatsnextmom is offline  
#3 of 30 Old 10-06-2011, 06:29 AM
 
ollyoxenfree's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 4,895
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)

 

Is this new behaviour? Has she always completed homework and assignments without protest or a lot of help before? If she was conscientious about homework previously, I'd search for the underlying reasons for this new resistance. Did she want to switch to this new school? Are there other relationship issues bothering her? Some of what you describe sounds like attention-seeking behaviour and some of it sounds like a power/control issue. 

 

I would hesitate about isolating her from the rest of the family by sending her to her room to work and leaving her at home while you go on family expeditions. Until they were in high school, my dc did most of their work at the dining room table or on the computer, which is also in the family area. DS started working in his room in 11th grade. DD is in 10th grade and still does her work at the dining table, even though she has a desk in her room. Although, come to think of it, it's probably because her desk is buried under a pile of clothes and teen crap ;-).  

 

If this is a continuation of her typical attitude toward homework, and it's been going on for years, then I'd re-assess the whole punishment/reward system that you have been using. Clearly the punishments and rewards are not effective, since they aren't delivering the results you want. They are not making the situation any better and probably making it worse by contributing to resentment and hard feelings. 

 

12 y.o. can be such a tough age. Is there something in her life that is a positive focus? An extracurricular activity like sport or music or drama or art or volunteer work? I'm just wondering where she's getting positive input these days, since it doesn't sound like it is happening at school. If there is nothing, then maybe something along those lines will improve the situation a little. 

 

 

 

 

 

ollyoxenfree is offline  
#4 of 30 Old 10-06-2011, 06:48 AM
 
karne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,558
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

I can tell you that in our family, homework gets done at the dining room table while I am cooking dinner.  My middle schooler benefits from that structure-sending her to her room for homework would mean no homework got completed.  Only reading is done in the bedroom-we've just found that this works better.

 

I too wonder if this is new behavior, or something she's struggled with.  A few thoughts come to mind.  For some kids, they are done by the end of the school day and have little mental energy for organizing themselves to complete academic tasks.  Your description of issues with work at home, and at school, make me wonder if you have thought of testing for an LD or ADD issues.  Executive function issues such as lack of organization, lack of follow through on assignments, being overwhelmed with work, requiring the constant input/support of an adult to provide structure for getting work done--this would raise red flags for me.

 

She's also at an age when school becomes, in part, focused more on becoming aware of your own learning needs/style, and becoming responsible for yourself and your needs.  It's a process that hopefully culminates in a child with an organizational skill set upon entering high school.  This may be the time to sit down with the teacher and guidance/psychologist and hash out what you are seeing, what they are seeing, and develop a plan for where she needs to be, and how you'll get there.

 

I know w/my dd, having the constant threat of losing activities, etc based on grades, would be too much pressure.  Her not seeming to be impacted by the loss of privileges may mean that she sees the situation as hopeless, or beyond her control, or that she's simply not invested in the situation.  Something isn't working in her situation, but it doesn't sound like she has the skills to understand or fix it.

karne is offline  
#5 of 30 Old 10-06-2011, 07:06 AM
 
mamazee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: US midwest
Posts: 7,246
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
My first question would be whether she's really just having trouble understanding what to do, despite having it explained to her and having it in writing. She could need a tutor or have a learning disability or something. I wouldn't assume the worst - that she's just lazy and unmotivated - without investigating other possibilities.

And then I'd try to work within a connective environment with her, and I'm afraid not letting her do family things with you and making her be alone might hurt rather than help. She is not at this moment internally motivated, and disconnection with you is not creating motivation, so maybe being more connected to you when she knows school is important to you would work better. Rewards and punishments like you've used are also not creating motivation for her, so maybe focusing on internal motivation instead of external would help. What are her interests? Maybe taking her to see things created by people who have advanced education in whatever interests her would help her decide education is worthwhile to her.
mamazee is offline  
#6 of 30 Old 10-06-2011, 07:08 AM
 
Linda on the move's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: basking in the sunshine
Posts: 10,612
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 82 Post(s)


Quote:
Originally Posted by lulahigley View Post

 She carries on about how she doesn't understand the assignment when I have spoken to her teachers who have said that they have explained the assignment over and over very clearly and there are also clear written instructions.


Has your DD ever been assessed for LD's or special needs? One of my kids is complex little package, but one of her issues is "processing speed."  She often didn't understand assignments even when all the other kids did understand what the teachers wanted. She had accommodations at school which included one period a day with the special education teacher, partly because of this. She had extra time for assignments and when there was an issue with her not understand what was required, the special education teacher and the regular teacher communicated and then my DD got the extra help she needed.  "Communication" had its own subsection on her 504 Plan.

 

Your assumption throughout your post is that she just isn't trying hard enough, but having seen some of the same behaviors in my own DD, who has a long list of labels, I can't help but wonder if there is more going on and your DD truly is doing the best she can right now.

 

There are some kids who can slide through school until about middle school and then the sh*t hits the fan. They were barely holding it together before, but as the expectations for kids their age goes up, they cannot cope.

 

Punishments, bribes and rewards had zero impact on my DD. I don't really believe them but we reached a point of being reading to try ANYTHING.

 

My advice would be to go through the evaluation process and see what you can find out about her. This can be done through the school (request made in writing, ask on the special needs board for more details) or privately if you have good insurance.

 

I also agree about hiring a tutor to stop this being a relationship issue between you guys, and to stop punishing her by isolating her. Depression isn't uncommon at this age, esp for kids with even very mild special needs, and she needs you guys. She needs to have fun with her family while you sort out why she is failing at school.


but everything has pros and cons  shrug.gif

Linda on the move is offline  
#7 of 30 Old 10-06-2011, 09:05 AM
 
Imakcerka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 4,026
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)

Also just wanted to add it could be an attention thing.  When I'm doing my own thing on my own perfect schedule... and I expect things to go by that schedule otherwise it's a nuisance... it doesn't bode well with the littles.  Sometimes homework has to wait because they have their need for out attention.  Help me do my homework can mean a few things.  Be with me, I just don't get it and even I don't want to do it. 

Imakcerka is offline  
#8 of 30 Old 10-06-2011, 11:26 AM - Thread Starter
 
lulahigley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 10
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

Yes, we still have family movie nights and hang out together on the weekends, I'm not saying she grounded to her room 24/7, but when are trying to help her understand her homework, and she cops an attitude and refuses to try, then I think it's only fair that privileges get taken away. I don't know what else to do. We'd like her to do her homework at the dining table, but she is laying on the floor of the kitchen, getting in the way of me cooking dinner, teasing the cat, doing anything BUT sitting in the chair doing homework. She just keeps asking for the answers. That's why we put a desk in her room because everything else that is going on in the house is a distraction to her. For Ollyoxenfree, she is enrolled in cheer one night a week which she really enjoys. We try to be role models in that we get our responsibilities done before we sit down to watch tv. As soon as we get home from work, we do the dishes, make dinner, feed the pets, take out the trash, pay bills, etc. Just thinking that's the way real life works for successful people, it's not too much to expect the same from her. I agree with her wanting attention, she is very good at attention seeking behaviors. I guess I was just thinking that AFTER she got her homework done, we could hang out and play a game or something. When she wants to she can really focus and get it done. I don't think it's an ADHD issue at all. There have been times when she has knocked out her homework when she feels motivated. And plenty of other things that capture her attention for hours. She has been evaluated by a psychologist for ADHD and they determined she didn't have it. So what now? What are some ideas, consequences, motivators, etc. that we could try. I agree that isolation is not the best approach but I am at my wits end. She tries to interfere with what I need to get done. She has about an hour and a half after school to play before she needs to get started on her homework. Thanks for your support and suggestions!

lulahigley is offline  
#9 of 30 Old 10-06-2011, 12:03 PM
 
Imakcerka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 4,026
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)

When you have things you need to get done out of the way, can you sit with her while she does her homework?  Maybe lay on her bed while she's at her desk and read a book.  Cause it sounds like you need to take a break too.  I notice my littles tend to get more done when I'm with them.  It's like they don't want to miss anything.  Just an idea worth trying for one night.

Imakcerka is offline  
#10 of 30 Old 10-06-2011, 12:56 PM
 
karne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,558
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

What did the psychologist suggest after there was a finding of no ADHD?  I'm guessing that something prompted the eval, possibly issues similar to what you are seeing now?  D's and F's are a big deal, if that is a course grade-not sure if that's the case here or not.  Either way, diagnosed or not, your dd does not seem managing the academic expectations of her grade.  Has she made use of the tutoring?  What do her teachers see at school?

 

Is it just the homework as an issue, or is there more?

 

karne is offline  
#11 of 30 Old 10-06-2011, 01:37 PM
 
whatsnextmom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,967
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)

Maybe she'd do better going straight into her homework after school instead of taking the 1.5 hour break. My own kids just grab a snack and go to work on the days they don't have activities. Otherwise, they loose momentum and having to go BACK to school work after a break is too depressing. Who is with her after school since you guys both work? I know she's 12 and so doesn't need a sitter but perhaps a tutor during this time would be beneficial... even a college student might do.

 

Did she just turn 12? Since she's been evaluated, I'm guessing there have been issues in the past. Was an ability test done on her during this time? She's on the old side for her grade so she shouldn't really be struggling with the material unless there is a learning disability present. Is it just the homework bringing down her grades or is her classwork a struggle too (like is she passing tests easily enough but failing because she's not turning anything in.)

 


Married mom of two, DD 17 and DS 13.
whatsnextmom is offline  
#12 of 30 Old 10-06-2011, 02:38 PM
 
Mirzam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Resistance Free Earth
Posts: 7,586
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 126 Post(s)


Quote:
Originally Posted by whatsnextmom View Post

Maybe she'd do better going straight into her homework after school instead of taking the 1.5 hour break. My own kids just grab a snack and go to work on the days they don't have activities. Otherwise, they loose momentum and having to go BACK to school work after a break is too depressing. Who is with her after school since you guys both work? I know she's 12 and so doesn't need a sitter but perhaps a tutor during this time would be beneficial... even a college student might do.

 

 


This is what my middle schoolers do. As soon as they get through the door, they sit at the dinning table and pull out their homework, I hand them a snack, and they work through until they are done. They both have after school activities three days a week, so for those days they do homework as soon as they get home afterwards, these night they eat their dinner while doing their work, so family dinners are few are far between.

 


Rainbow.giftstillheart.gifsmile.gif

 

"If you find from your own experience that something is a fact and it contradicts what some authority has written down, then you must abandon the authority and base your reasoning on your own findings"~ Leonardo da Vinci

Mirzam is online now  
#13 of 30 Old 10-06-2011, 03:31 PM - Thread Starter
 
lulahigley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 10
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

We both work until 5, she gets off school at 3:15 and stays at the school for after school program. There is a study room there that the kids can use, and some of the teachers stay after on certain days to offer help. BUT she won't use those things. She does the other activities there. Even if I remind her in the morning, she always "forgets".

lulahigley is offline  
#14 of 30 Old 10-06-2011, 04:57 PM
 
Imakcerka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 4,026
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)


Ok... I'd be pissed!  Sorry I was all for trying to help her out.  But that is just ridiculous.  She has a place she can use with help there... and she won't use it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lulahigley View Post

We both work until 5, she gets off school at 3:15 and stays at the school for after school program. There is a study room there that the kids can use, and some of the teachers stay after on certain days to offer help. BUT she won't use those things. She does the other activities there. Even if I remind her in the morning, she always "forgets".



 

Imakcerka is offline  
#15 of 30 Old 10-06-2011, 05:00 PM
 
Imakcerka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 4,026
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)

natural consequence... she gets to do that grade over.  Ask her how that sounds.

Imakcerka is offline  
#16 of 30 Old 10-06-2011, 05:47 PM
 
whatsnextmom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,967
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)


Quote:
Originally Posted by lulahigley View Post

We both work until 5, she gets off school at 3:15 and stays at the school for after school program. There is a study room there that the kids can use, and some of the teachers stay after on certain days to offer help. BUT she won't use those things. She does the other activities there. Even if I remind her in the morning, she always "forgets".



Have you talked to the after school program directors? Our district middle school after program (6th through 8th grades) require ALLparticipating students to do homework for 45 minutes. They don't even start the fun activities until that period is done. Perhaps you can talk to the staff and make it a requirement that she work in the study room until 4 each day. That still gives her an hour of play time. 


Married mom of two, DD 17 and DS 13.
whatsnextmom is offline  
#17 of 30 Old 10-06-2011, 07:31 PM
 
LynnS6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Pacific NW longing for the Midwest
Posts: 12,446
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)

What's missing for me is two things:

1. Connection time before homework

2. A clear assessment of whether she is actually understanding the work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lulahigley View Post

. We try to be role models in that we get our responsibilities done before we sit down to watch tv. As soon as we get home from work, we do the dishes, make dinner, feed the pets, take out the trash, pay bills, etc. Just thinking that's the way real life works for successful people, it's not too much to expect the same from her. I agree with her wanting attention, she is very good at attention seeking behaviors. I guess I was just thinking that AFTER she got her homework done, we could hang out and play a game or something. When she wants to she can really focus and get it done.


Let me throw out a different point of view:

After school, she has to go spend 1.5 hours in aftercare, where she wants to spend time doing activities that are fun. She may actually NEED to spend this time doing activities after having been largely sedentary all day at school. She then comes home from school, and instead of being able to be part of the family, she gets sent up to her room to do her homework, while the parents focus on chores. To me, this might be giving her the impression that chores and bills are more important to you than she is. I'm sure that's not true, but that's what your actions are saying. (FWIW, my parents were sometimes like this and it always made me feel awful.)

 

I'd also question the premise that 'successful people' always get the chores, etc. out of the way before tending to relationships. In fact, I might even argue that if this is what's happening, those 'successful' people have lives that are out of balance. I am a WOH, I understand the myriad of things that need to be done to make the house run, and how little time there is after a long day's work. I also know that we pay bills, do the dishes, and a lot of other things after the kids are in bed.

 

An example: When I grew up, after family trips, my parents would always spend the first 3-5 hours after we got home cleaning up the tent trailer, unpacking, doing laundry, etc. etc. Unfortunately, both of them were exhausted and ill-tempered. I  hated the days we came home from vacations for that very reason. Then I got married. My husband came home from vacation, deposited the suitcases in the hall, and did other things. I tried to keep up my parents' pattern and got cranky and angry. Then I realized that maybe there was method in my husband's approach. In the few days things would get unpacked. It was much less stressful. No, not nearly as efficient, but we weren't sniping at each other, and we actually enjoyed some of that time.

 

Another thought that I had is that maybe your expectations aren't high enough. What does she do to help (meaningfully) around the house? Our kids do some of the chores with us. So, on garbage night, we all do garbage together. On other nights, one child will vacuum the living room, while I help pick up stuff on the floor. Or one child will start a load of laundry while I clean the sink. We're all occupied at this time.) Right now, your relationship with your daughter needs some major tending before it slips away from you. So, one suggestion would be: Actively involve your daughter in making dinner. If she's not going to do her homework anyway during this time, it would be a great time to connect over cooking. She's old enough to cook. I started cooking full meals for the family at 10-11.

 

Then, after dinner, sit down with her and do the homework. Grab a magazine or a newspaper and sit next to her. Explain to her that you'll help with directions and strategies, but that you won't give her the answers. If she gets done in a reasonable amount of time, then do something together, even if it's just watch a TV show or take the dog for a walk.

 

Clearly isolating her and taking away rewards don't motivate her. You've also said that she's a great at 'attention seeking behavior'. Kids do that when they're feeling a lack of attention. ANY attention (even negative like she's getting now) is better than no attention (which is what she gets when she goes up to her room.) Her behavior says to me "I need attention before I can focus on homework". Taking away that attention hasn't worked. What about adding it in before?

 

I'd actually be quite honest with her: "Hon, what we're doing with homework isn't working, is it?" "no." "What do you think would help?" "I dunno". "Well, one thought would be that you could be with us while we make dinner and actually learn to cook, and then after dinner, I'll have some time to sit down with you while you do it. What do you think of that?"

 

My kids, can't do homework right away after school. They NEED decompression time. That's especially true for our son, who's a major introvert. He won't even go out and play with the neighborhood kids. He'll have a snack, play some Wii for 30-40 minutes, and then cheerfully do his homework. Because he gets it done, I don't see any reason to change that pattern. I guess my point is that you don't know what pattern will work for your daughter. If she's an introvert, she may need to chill after being with people. if she's more of an extrovert, she may need to connect with you first.

Quote:
Originally Posted by whatsnextmom View Post

Have you considered a private tutor for her? Someone experienced to sit next to her for a bit? She might benefit from some specialized academic attention and you all might benefit from having someone else handle the homework issues at least once or twice a week. 

 

Rewards are good for kids who need to get over a personal hurdle but it only works in the short term. Appropriate consequences for a child suddenly making poor choices can get their attention and turn them around. However, if this is a long term problem, I'd be cautious.



I agree on both counts. If she's getting Ds and Fs, she may well missing some content knowledge (even if it was due to failure to do homework), and might really not be able to do the work. While the teachers may well have explained it fully, that doesn't guarantee she understood it, or that she was even paying attention when they gave the explanations. The book "The Myth of Laziness" might be worth reading - a lot of kids who have mild learning issues are dubbed lazy. As others have suggested, have her tested for learning disabilities might be worth while. You need to rule that out before you assume that she's lazy/unmotivated.
 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lulahigley View Post

We both work until 5, she gets off school at 3:15 and stays at the school for after school program. There is a study room there that the kids can use, and some of the teachers stay after on certain days to offer help. BUT she won't use those things. She does the other activities there. Even if I remind her in the morning, she always "forgets".



I agree with whatsnextmom: If you need her to do homework at the after school program, then it needs to be part of the program. No 6th grader is going to choose to do homework over having fun with other kids. Certainly no 6th grader is going to admit to others that she doesn't get it or isn't doing well. Our son was in an after school program (mainly for the fun stuff), but all students had to have one 'period' (40 min) of 'study hall'. Students who were having academic difficulties had one 'study hall' and one academic class and one fun class.

 

Finally, does she show any signs of depression?

aussiemum likes this.

Lynnteapot2.GIF, academicreading.gif,geek.gif wife, WOHM  to T jog.gif(4/01) and M whistling.gif (5/04)
LynnS6 is offline  
#18 of 30 Old 10-06-2011, 09:51 PM
 
Linda on the move's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: basking in the sunshine
Posts: 10,612
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 82 Post(s)


Quote:
Originally Posted by karne View Post

What did the psychologist suggest after there was a finding of no ADHD?  I'm guessing that something prompted the eval, possibly issues similar to what you are seeing now?  D's and F's are a big deal, if that is a course grade-not sure if that's the case here or not.  Either way, diagnosed or not, your dd does not seem managing the academic expectations of her grade.  Has she made use of the tutoring?  What do her teachers see at school?

 

Is it just the homework as an issue, or is there more?

 

 

I'm really wondering about this as well. Lots of kids have issues that aren't ADHD. Something in this whole story doesn't add up. Have you talked to her teachers about what is going on? About what they see in class?

 

She honestly sounds like a candidate to me for a full neuro psychological evaluation.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by LynnS6 View Post


After school, she has to go spend 1.5 hours in aftercare, where she wants to spend time doing activities that are fun. She may actually NEED to spend this time doing activities after having been largely sedentary all day at school.


I agree. After school care is NOT down time. My kids need down time before tackling home work.

 

 

 


but everything has pros and cons  shrug.gif

Linda on the move is offline  
#19 of 30 Old 10-07-2011, 03:12 AM - Thread Starter
 
lulahigley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 10
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

Whatsnextmom: yes we have talked with the after school program director and he says that they do 30 min of homework time, but clearly she is not doing anything in that 30 minutes or they have too many kids to keep an eye on, I don't know.

 

LynnS6: We tried taking the pressure off homework before though, we would talk about our day, take the dog down to the mailboxes to check the mail, let her start her homework when she's ready and she would, all on her own, then 6 turns into 7 and into 8 and the next thing you know, it's 8:30 and the homework is still not done and it's time to get ready for bed. Now she is wanting help with her homework and is whining and giving up. She has chores, Mondays she cleans her bathroom and Thursdays she cleans her room.

 

I am beyond frustrated with her. When it comes to bedtime, the rules has always been the same, if you go to bed late, you go to bed early the next night as a consequence. Well, just the other night, she was mad about not finishing her homework and getting privileges taken away, so she stormed off to her room and we gave her some space. 9 is bedtime and bedtime is lights out, in bed, but if she can't sleep, she have her reading light on and read. Well, she didn't turn out her light and say goodnight until 9:30 and so the next my husband told her at 8:30 to take a shower and start getting ready for bed. She said NO! and said I'm not going to! And proceeded to argue about she fell asleep with the lights on... She said this a few times, now it becomes an argument about what bedtime means and the consequences. So we told her she would be grounded if she did not do as she was told. She eventually took a shower but didn't make to bed until 9:15. I am so frustrated with her attitude and defiancy.

lulahigley is offline  
#20 of 30 Old 10-07-2011, 04:57 AM
 
mamazee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: US midwest
Posts: 7,246
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
I don't see how it's valuable to create that big an issue over a half-hour change in when her lights are out. That sounds controlling just to be controlling to me.

There are learning disorders other than ADHD. There are tons of them. If she's frustrated over school work because of a learning disability, nothing is going to get her to do it and do well other than finding out if there is one and what it is. It doesn't sound like you've really looked into this very hard, other than looking at ADHD.

But overall her environment sounds a bit controlling and punitive and she could just be fighting against that. Becoming more controlling isn't going to solve that - it'll just make her pull away harder - and the ways she can pull away will get worse and scarier as she gets older. I would back way down on the control and connect with her more so she wants to fight against you less. You should be on the same team.
mamazee is offline  
#21 of 30 Old 10-07-2011, 05:12 AM
 
mistymama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 4,824
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Imakcerka View Post

Ok... I'd be pissed!  Sorry I was all for trying to help her out.  But that is just ridiculous.  She has a place she can use with help there... and she won't use it?

 



I wouldn't jump to being "pissed" over this - if this girl has ADHD, that goes along with it. My son does, and trust me, that sounds exactly like something he would do over and over .. so many distractions and having to remember to get yourself to the help, it wouldn't happen.  Of course we are working on all of that, and he's 8 .. but I would NOT assume this little girl is just being lazy or not taking advantage of the help .. It appears to me she needs help organizing herself to GET the help. If that makes any sense. :)

 

OP, my son has Aspergers and ADHD .. he's brilliant but has such a hard time following directions and staying on task. He's medicated and it's been the very best thing we could have ever done for him - despite my anti-meds stance. Some children really do need it.  I've got to run out the door to school, but I want to chime in and say that I would not assume your DD is not trying hard enough .. and all the punishments in the world wont help her have better executive function .. it sounds to me that she needs some help. Help from you at home (one on one) and help at school.


Candacepeace.gif, Married to dh   guitar.gif, Mom to ds (8) biggrinbounce.gif , Gavin candle.gif (9/30/10 - 12/19/10) and cautiously expecting our rainbow1284.gif 4-29-12

mistymama is offline  
#22 of 30 Old 10-07-2011, 06:35 AM
 
beanma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: with the dustbunnies & sugar beans
Posts: 8,097
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)

I have a 5th grader with some serious quirks and some ADHD-like behaviors (although I think many of them are learned behaviors due to anxiety).

 

Here's how it goes at our house. She is a kid who needs a lot of downtime, but she does a lot better if she does her homework within 30 minutes of getting home. Otherwise she gets too into something else and it's hard to pull her away and she's resentful of stopping her fun activity. Homework right away is really better than after 30 minutes for her. 

 

She does it in the kitchen with me, or with her dad when he gets home. She definitely needs to feel connected to us. I tell her to get started and ask me if she has any questions. She always has questions. I do sit down with her and explain different strategies or explain what the word problem is asking, but I don't do the work for her. If she gets recalcitrant or down on herself ("I CA-A-A-A-A-N'T") I tell her that I am willing to help her as long as she has a "I-can-figure-this-out" attitude. I explain that I want to help her and I want her to understand, but I'm not willing to force her to understand. She has to approach it with a willing attitude. It's all that "you can lead a horse to water" bit. I can't make her drink the understanding homework water if she doesn't want to and I _really_ don't want to get pulled into a power struggle with her. What a waste of time!

 

If my dd asked me to look up a definition in the dictionary I would bring the dictionary to her or show her how she could look up the word on dictionary.com, but I wouldn't do it for her. I would listen to her read the definition to me, but I wouldn't look it up for her. 

 

I am not a fan of punishments and rewards. We don't really do those much and never have. I also hate them for myself. They make me feel manipulated even when it's a reward I set up for myself, like I can have a cookie after I vacuum or something. Doesn't work for me. You might be interested in some of Alfie Kohn's writings on that.

 

We do, however, prioritize our time. We need to get homework done first and then with the time that is left before supper or bedtime we can play on the computer, etc.

 

We are looking at some charter school options next year for middle school. I am concerned about whether traditional middle school would be a good fit for dd1. I think school is good for her, but I would consider pulling her out and homeschooling if she were miserable. I realize that's not an option for everyone. I really want her to feel good about herself and have some successes. I think a bad school experience can set the tone for some hard years and the teen years can be tricky for so many kids. I'd rather do whatever I can to help her navigate the turbulent teen waters as best we can. I want to be by her side and on her side and on her team. I don't want to have an adversarial relationship with her. 

 

hth


Mamatreehugger.gif to two girl beans, Feb 2001hearts.gif and Nov 2003coolshine.gif . DH geek.gif, and two crazydog2.gifdog2.gif . Running on biodiesel since 2004!
 
"All you fascists are bound to lose" — Woody Guthrie
beanma is offline  
#23 of 30 Old 10-07-2011, 05:40 PM
 
VocalMinority's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: surrounded by testosterone
Posts: 1,305
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)

We have had similar struggles - though perhaps with less girly drama - with my 12-y-o step-son, who's in 7th grade this year.  Here are some thoughts that spring to mind, based on our experience:

 

1- His teachers told us several times that 6th grade is a hard year for most kids, because they're transitioning to harder work, more work, higher expectations of managing their own time and assignments...at the same time that there are huge social changes amongst their peers, they may be starting puberty, and perhaps they're at a new school.  (Here, elementary ends at 5th grade and 6th-8th are in a separate school.)  Indeed, our kid is doing better and working more independently this year.  Don't lose hope!

 

2- Make sure the expectations are appropriate.  Is she bored?  Or are her classes too hard for her?  

 

Conventional wisdom says, if a kid's smarter than average, they ought to get good grades easily.  But I am convinced what happened with my step-son is that he latched onto things pretty easily and came to feel that "hard worker" and "good student" were simply innate parts of his being - regardless whether he actually ever worked hard at anything.  After all, it didn't take him much effort to learn things and complete assignments that other kids struggled with, and - for a while - adults were always praising his work habits and diligence, even telling him he was a "genius"!  But starting in 2nd or 3rd grade, work loads became increasingly harder and getting your work done and getting decent grades became more a matter of your actual work habits and less a matter of innate intelligence.  Some kids no one had ever called "genius" had been forced to learn in kindergarten how to work to master new concepts, and how to apply themselves to complete tough assignments.  I think it was something of an ego-blow to DSS, to see these kids doing better than he did, in school.  He seemed to have no idea in the world how to approach things that weren't easy for him.  In fact, he seemed to feel it was unfair that anyone would expect that of him.  He was a "genius"!  He was "amazingly hard-working" and "responsible" and "paid such amazing attention to detail"!  (At least, that has been the constant message from his mother, who I'm sure means well.)  Well, how dare people fail to recognize and respect those things about him, and instead expect him to prove them!?  

 

By the same token, it was a big loss for him not to have a lot of free time while other kids were working.  He was accustomed to the idea that, if his teacher gave the class time to work on an assignment, he could spend a good deal of that time doodling, or reading something for pleasure, or surfing the web (if they were in the computer lab) - and that he could still get the work done; or that if he goofed off after school, he could breeze through all his homework in the last 1/2-hour before bed and do just fine.  When it became evident that that level of effort was no longer sufficient, he mourned that goof-off time, to which he felt very entitled.

 

For a while he did what it sounds like your daughter is doing...he put his considerable energy, effort and creativity into looking for ways AROUND working hard in school.  And, as you know, it was SO FRUSTRATING as a parent, to wish he'd just put the same effort into DOING his freaking assignments that he put into trying to GET AROUND doing them!

 

If it sounds like your daughter's issues are similar to my kid's, then I'd say you just have to keep banging your head against the wall and repeating that you expect her to do as well as she, personally, is able - and she's not.  Remind her of things she dreams of doing in the future and that ALL of them will involve hard work, dedication and time-management.  She will not suddenly develop that, in college.  Now is the time to learn the basic work habits and time-management skills she'll need, the rest of her life.  And you're not nagging to make her miserable, but because of how much you love her and want her to have the opportunities to do whatever her heart desires, when she's older.

 

Of course, if she has the opposite problem - if things are too hard - I think the path to fixing that might be more obvious.

 

3- I think you have to get more involved with kids' time-management in 6th grade than what seems logical.  My parents did not check my assignments every night when I was that age, nor did my husband's.  But having put 3 kids through 6th grade, now, I can assure you that is what teachers and administrators are expecting of you, even if they're too timid to say it.  If there's an online, or voicemail, "Homework Hotline", where you can double-check what her homework assignments are, check it every night.  At the very least, she should have an assignment notebook.  If they don't already, get her teachers to initial it every day, so you know that what she wrote down is accurate.  Make her show you each assignment after she completes it.  If she B.S.'d her way through it, make her do it over again.  At least once a week, go through her binder with her and help her weed out graded or outdated papers and put all the things that are in the wrong place, loose in her backpack, or tucked into her textbooks, where they belong.  If her locker's the problem, make a regular date to stand there with her, after school, while she cleans it out.  When she has long-term projects, sit down with her at the beginning and make her come up with a plan for what portion of the work she's going to do, each day, until it's due, so it doesn't get pushed to the last minute.  Then check what she has completed, every day.

 

All of what I just said is maddeningly time-consuming.  I have compared notes with other parents and many feel as I do:  it's unexpected, but kids almost seem to need more of your time during middle school than they did, during preschool.  I truly believe the investment of time is worth it.  I was so often frustrated and exhausted to the point of tears, when DSS was in 6th grade.  But it DID appear to make a difference.  He simply did not have the skills or the personal discipline to teach himself how to get organized and manage his time.  Teaching him has been worse than potty-training.  But he has learned and is more independent - and I wouldn't want to have left him to figure this out for himself, in adulthood, after spending high school and college limping along like he did, when left to his own devices.

 

If your daughter balks at all the oversight or whines that you "don't trust her", assure her you'll back off just as soon as she becomes more responsible.  When you visit her locker, or go through her binder, and they're usually pretty organized...when you double-check her assignments and consistently find that she's writing them all down in her agenda...when she goes a month or two with no missing assignments, you'll be happy to quit spending all your free time double-checking what she's doing.  (But still do it every once in a while, to head off relapses.)

 

But secretly, if you and your DH are both very busy and a lot of your time at home is spent catching up on adult things, all of her whining and trying to get you to do things for her may really be her need for more of your attention.  Sometimes I find DSS focuses more if someone is just sitting at the same table with him (even if you're doing something else).  Or, last year, if his essays or reports were crummy (way below his ability level), he could usually produce something much better if I sat down with him and offered to let him do dictation.  He puts his thoughts together by himself, but I type.  Basically, your daughter may whine if you clamp down on her homework, but secretly, she may want you to.  She may want guidance in developing her study skills, and she may just want your time.

 

4- I would draw the line at her putting off homework 'til recess.  Homework is homework.  Study hall, homeroom, finishing something on the bus or at recess should all be solutions of absolute last resort, for those rare days when you have so much homework, plus a doctor's appt., plus sports practice, that you can't possibly finish everything unless you stay up 'til midnight.  That should not be allowed to be the norm.

 

5- Keep looking for the consequence that will actually motivate her.  But be careful about letting it be weekend outings.  Social life is very distracting at this age.  She may actually be avoiding it, by telling people she can't join them on the weekends because she's grounded for grades.  Don't let her.  If her friendships are changing, she may need your support in being brave enough to get out there and change with them.  Make new friends.  Pursue new interests.  Feel good about herself even if some people don't seem to like her.  Don't hide at home.  If she feels secure about her friendships and the time she gets to spend with friends, she may have a better attitude about homework.  But withholding computer or TV time, use of her own cell phone, video games, etc. - do that as much as you want!  (Well, except there should be some things you do together as a family that don't get taken away.  Watching a favorite show together every week.  Going to the movies together.  She really needs that.)  Plus, 12-y-o's can be rather dramatic and self-pitying.  You don't want her to tell herself she's never going to be able to pull herself out of this hole of being grounded, so she may as well just accept never getting to go anywhere and comfort herself with the thought of how unfairly mistreated she is, instead of striving to do better.

 

6- Try giving rewards/consequences that are more immediate.  The end of the grading period may seem like a really long time, to a 12-year-old, while it seems like the blink of an eye, to us.  "I bought your favorite dessert.  We'll all have some together, but only if you finish your homework before dinner."  (Of course, 1st check what her homework is and make sure you're giving her a reasonable amount of time.  And if she does seem to be working pretty diligently, give her grace if she needs another 1/2-hr. after dinner.)  Or, "Start your homework as soon as you get home from school.  The more focused you are, the more free time you'll have at the end.  And I love you - I really want to see you give yourself some time to relax."

 

Good luck!

 


One woman in a house full of men:  my soul mate:    or... twin sons:(HS seniors) ... step-son:  (a sophomore) ... our little man:   (a first grader) ... and there is another female in the house, after all:  our
VocalMinority is offline  
#24 of 30 Old 10-08-2011, 06:36 AM
 
VocalMinority's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: surrounded by testosterone
Posts: 1,305
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)


Quote:
Originally Posted by lulahigley View Post

She has about an hour and a half after school to play before she needs to get started on her homework.


I just read this and want to reiterate that one successful motivator, for us, was telling DSS he had to start homework as soon as he got home, went to the bathroom and had a snack.  Believe me, DH and I are as opposed to this as anyone else, on a theoretical basis.  Kids should have time to ride bikes with their friends and just unwind, after school.  But he kept forcing us to choose, at bedtime:  Let him go without enough sleep before school the next day, so he could finish his homework (which might require another hour, at the snail's pace he was working); or send him to bed without completing it, knowing it would negatively affect his grades?  

 

Reluctantly, we made it his responsibility:  however much time you leave yourself, after your homework's done, is how much time you get to relax.  (Of course, it's critical that you check the homework, so it's not shoddily done, to get to the free time.)  For a long time, this didn't seem to be working.  He would stretch out homework from the minute he got home until the minute he went to bed, with a brief break for dinner.  Maddening!  But I think a lot of that was pouting.  "Poor me.  All I ever do is work.  No one ever lets me have fun.  Whatever.  Why should I even try to work faster?  It won't make any difference."  I know it sounds weird, but when people are young and immature, sometimes I think wallowing in the belief that they deserve pity and are powerless to improve their situation is actually more pleasurable, in a way, than buckling down and working hard at something they'd rather not do.  Plus, I suspect certain people in his life (who don't have to do homework with him) heaped a lot of sympathy on him.  Your daughter might have friends who hear an earful about what slavedrivers you guys are and how she never gets down-time.  That may be one of the ways she gets attention and identity in her social group.  It's immature and unattractive, but not uncommon for that age-group.

 

The key was, to make sure the kid really enjoys their free time, when they make some for themselves.  Be prepared for that unexpected day that she finishes everything and has an hour left before bed.  Do something fun as a family.  Or take her out for a milkshake.  Play a game.  At this point, DSS has finally figured out how much he enjoys that free time - and that he CAN have it. And now that he doesn't dawdle as much over homework, we're less strict about when he gets started.  But it was a long, tiring journey to get there!

 


One woman in a house full of men:  my soul mate:    or... twin sons:(HS seniors) ... step-son:  (a sophomore) ... our little man:   (a first grader) ... and there is another female in the house, after all:  our
VocalMinority is offline  
#25 of 30 Old 10-08-2011, 12:57 PM
 
LynnS6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Pacific NW longing for the Midwest
Posts: 12,446
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)


Quote:
Originally Posted by lulahigley View Post
LynnS6: We tried taking the pressure off homework before though, we would talk about our day, take the dog down to the mailboxes to check the mail, let her start her homework when she's ready and she would, all on her own, then 6 turns into 7 and into 8 and the next thing you know, it's 8:30 and the homework is still not done and it's time to get ready for bed. Now she is wanting help with her homework and is whining and giving up.

 

You missed a key part of my suggestion. I did not say 'let her decide when to do it', I said "build it into the after dinner routine". Sit down with her directly after dinner. Homework time isn't optional.  She's shown already that she's not great a time management. So, you have to help her build a schedule. Some kids are born with an internal time clock and will readily figure out what time to do things. Our son is like that. Our daughter needs much more support in time management. Like your daughter, she wants to put things off. So, I have to tell her when it's time. I also have to sit next to her to help  her break it down into manageable steps. Now, she's 7, and that's expected. But a lot of 12 year olds still need this kind of help, especially as homework gets more complex.

 

What kind of scaffolding are you giving her to help her set a schedule, and break down the tasks into manageable bits. Most kids aren't born knowing this innately? They don't know how to study or to break the problem down. They read it, get overwhelmed and freak out.  I'm a college professor, and still see this pattern. When students come to my office, we sit down and we tackle the problems bit by bit. It helps me see where they're making mistakes and it keeps them from getting overwhelmed. It also shows them a better way to approach the problems. And this is AFTER I've explained in detail in class and given detailed handouts. Why should you expect a 12 year old to be able to do this on her own without being taught?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lulahigley View Post
She has chores, Mondays she cleans her bathroom and Thursdays she cleans her room.

 

She cleans her stuff. What does she do to contribute to the family? Why isn't she helping you cook dinner and do the dishes? Why isn't she doing laundry? Feeding the cat? If you've got a cleaning person, there are still little things that need to be done (decluttering, laundry, cleaning out the fridge, cleaning the litter box). If you don't, then she should be pitching in with you to get all the big stuff done too: vacuuming, dusting, scrubbing floors, shoveling snow, mowing the lawn.

 

She's old enough to do all of that with your help to teach her. No, it's not as efficient as when you do it yourself. When my kids clean the sink, I have to be sure I'm the one to do it the next week to get all the spots. But I help them, I give them little tips, explain to them how to get at the gunk under the faucet handles, remind them of the parts they missed. They contribute to the family.

 

I may be way off base, but I really think that you need to (a) focus on connection and (b) get her evaluated for learning difficulties. I understand that you're frustrated. But in your frustration you're pushing your daughter further and further away. Before you decide that she won't do her homework, you first need to find out if she really can.


Lynnteapot2.GIF, academicreading.gif,geek.gif wife, WOHM  to T jog.gif(4/01) and M whistling.gif (5/04)
LynnS6 is offline  
#26 of 30 Old 10-08-2011, 02:09 PM
 
IsaFrench's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: now back in Europe
Posts: 1,975
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)

maybe not the best approach for everybody

but on some days, what works with some of my kids (not every kid, it depends)

is for me to sit down at the kitchen table whilst they do their homework (not me reading or doing anything else) SO that they get going & carry on with the task for ... at least 30 min to 45 min (or less if it takes less)

 

then homework time is up, even is homework is not finished, and meal prep is on etc ... extra chores can be given if effort at homework has not been sufficient

there have been days when we have put back dinner time by more than one hour just to make a point that no dinner will be served if a decent amount of effort has not been shown on homework ...

maybe too extreme for some .... if really depends on the child ...

 

but most of the time, we try to have homework completed as soon as possible after school, otherwise, it's so easy to find this or that that needs doing .... and homework never gets a chance ....

IsaFrench is offline  
#27 of 30 Old 10-08-2011, 03:50 PM
 
Linda on the move's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: basking in the sunshine
Posts: 10,612
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 82 Post(s)


Quote:
Originally Posted by LynnS6 View Post

 

You missed a key part of my suggestion. I did not say 'let her decide when to do it', I said "build it into the after dinner routine". Sit down with her directly after dinner. Homework time isn't optional.  She's shown already that she's not great a time management. So, you have to help her build a schedule.


..... Why isn't she helping you cook dinner and do the dishes? Why isn't she doing laundry? Feeding the cat?

......

 

I may be way off base, but I really think that you need to (a) focus on connection and (b) get her evaluated for learning difficulties. I understand that you're frustrated. But in your frustration you're pushing your daughter further and further away. Before you decide that she won't do her homework, you first need to find out if she really can.



This is an awesome post. I was baffled reading the thread about how she has to do it right after school or she never starts. For a long time, our homework time was right after dinner. It was a clear transition. TV was off, all the other kids were inside, every one had had down time.

 

Connecting while getting stuff done around the house kills like two birds with one stone. You really need to get this stuff, and eventually it will be easier with her help than without it (though not at first). Conversations with pre-teens/teens are often easier when the conversation is a side line of what is happening, not the focus. I really believe the more times when make a conversation possible with our teens without sitting them, looking them in the eye, and focusing a connection the better. Making these pleasant times by putting on some music and having a positive attitude yourself will help.

 

And part of the problem right now with your DD MAY be a work ethic -- the attitude you teach your about getting basic life stuff done *may* help her develop a better work ethic.

Part of the problem right now with your DD MAY be that she is trying to get attention and going for negative attention because she hasn't a clue how to go for positive attention. Happily doing real work together is neutral attention, and therefore wonderful.


And I've already said it like 3 times, but I think the kid needs an eval. Soon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IsaFrench View Post
but on some days, what works with some of my kids (not every kid, it depends)

is for me to sit down at the kitchen table whilst they do their homework (not me reading or doing anything else) SO that they get going & carry on with the task for ... at least 30 min to 45 min (or less if it takes less)


 

We went through a phase where the kids really needed me to sit with them for moral support. They needed a little help getting organized, making sure they had every thing they needed. I gradually weaning them off it by reading at the same time. It didn't last forever. But if you kid is getting D & F, sitting at a table next to them  while they do math problems is a small investment to make.


but everything has pros and cons  shrug.gif

Linda on the move is offline  
#28 of 30 Old 10-08-2011, 04:50 PM
 
CarrieMF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Alberta/Saskatchewan
Posts: 8,864
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

I see 2 completely different issues here.

 

1) she is not getting her homework done.

 

2) she is a pre-teen.  

 

she is testing you over & over & over & winning.  She is the one in control right now.

 

Other than her grades, what are the consequences AT SCHOOL for not doing homework?  Does she have to stay in(if they get recess), is there homework club or a "detention", she does have to speak to the principal.  If there are consequences at school for not finishing homework I'd giver her time after supper to do her homework & if it is not done she deals with the school consequences.  Stop making it a battle.  You are just her mother, she can fight you but principals are scary people.lol  Nobody wants to have to go to the office for the principal to talk to you.

 

Perhaps the bar has been set too low for her with her grades.  If her struggling to do homework(or not dong it & getting bad grades as a result) is fairly new(in the last year) then perhaps require B's instead of C's.    Has her teacher sat down with her & explained(shown through the numbers) if she did the homework that her grades would be higher.  Are you positive that her marks have dropped that much because of not finishing homework?  Do the teachers think she is not getting the concepts(like your dd says) or is she pulling that only with you?

 

The teenaged attitude she has.  You are going to have to learn which battles are worth fighting or you're going to have a LONG 6 years ahead of you.   The best way to stop having battles with her is to just stop having them.  Decide which fights are worth it & which ones aren't. Which ones are about things that will matter in 5-10 years & which won't. Having the school hand out the consequences of homework takes a big battle away.    If she wants to fight the bedtime/shower thing perhaps the routine can be changed up a bit. Can she shower in the morning instead of at night.  Can her bedtime be extended to lights out 30minutes later?

 

 

 

Quote:
 I keep telling her I want 

 

This is the problem. She is 12.  She doesn't care what you want.  She is in a point in her life where she is vey self-centered & everything is about her & it will be for years to come.  She is at that point where she knows everything & you know nothing.  You may find going on an outing with her fun but she may not want to do that outing so it is no longer a reward for her so she is going to be difficult about it.  She may not want to go with you, she may want to go with Dad, grandparents, aunt/uncle or a group of friends instead.  What activities does she like to do. What would she see as a fun thing to do.  

 

Sit down with her while you are both in good calm moods & find out what outside things she'd like to do.  What would be fun for her.  What was fun a year ago may no longer be fun for her or fun in the same way.  Come up with a plan TOGETHER on how this activity can happen.  

 

Little things add up quickly.  If you see her behaving in a way you find acceptable then reward her in little ways.  Instead of having to be in bed by x time, let her stay up & watch tv with you for 30minutes or something like that.  But don't do it too often or it will become a need in her mind.

 

 

 

 

CarrieMF is offline  
#29 of 30 Old 10-10-2011, 07:32 PM - Thread Starter
 
lulahigley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 10
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

Getting her to help out around the house is impossbile, she loathes chores, I have enough trouble trying to get her to take care of her own spaces and belongings. I believe homework comes first.

We are taking her out of the after school program and putting in the homework club. I believe that will help her get some out of the way before she gets home and before she unwinds too much that we can't get her back on focus. As far as consequences at the school, this school is really good about that, but it doesn't seem to be enough and I am having a real hard time justifying allowing her to watch TV or have other privileges without putting in any homework. If we just let the school deal with it, she'd do whatever she wanted and not put any effort into homework. But I guess allowing her to get held back a grade would teach an important lesson, but I am afraid of what that would do to her self esteem and maybe backfire in that she would never turn herself around. As far as the shower bedtime thing, we tried letting her bathe in the morning, but she would just get her hair wet to look like she showered, and I would tell her to get back in there and shower and that would start an argument. I've told her that if she can't sleep, she must turn the ceiling fan light off, but she can have her reading light on, she doesn't have to lay down and close her eyes. The rule is that it's quiet time after 9 and she needs to leave my husband and I alone, we need an hour to ourselves. It's getting to the point now where she argues about everything, every little stupid thing we ask her to do. Brush teeth, get ready for bed, turn off the TV, do your homework, put your stuff away.... the first two times she ignores us and the third time, she starts yelling and then storms off to her room and slams the door. angry.gif

lulahigley is offline  
#30 of 30 Old 10-10-2011, 08:26 PM
 
Imakcerka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 4,026
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)


Welcome to 12. 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lulahigley View Post

Getting her to help out around the house is impossbile, she loathes chores, I have enough trouble trying to get her to take care of her own spaces and belongings. I believe homework comes first.

We are taking her out of the after school program and putting in the homework club. I believe that will help her get some out of the way before she gets home and before she unwinds too much that we can't get her back on focus. As far as consequences at the school, this school is really good about that, but it doesn't seem to be enough and I am having a real hard time justifying allowing her to watch TV or have other privileges without putting in any homework. If we just let the school deal with it, she'd do whatever she wanted and not put any effort into homework. But I guess allowing her to get held back a grade would teach an important lesson, but I am afraid of what that would do to her self esteem and maybe backfire in that she would never turn herself around. As far as the shower bedtime thing, we tried letting her bathe in the morning, but she would just get her hair wet to look like she showered, and I would tell her to get back in there and shower and that would start an argument. I've told her that if she can't sleep, she must turn the ceiling fan light off, but she can have her reading light on, she doesn't have to lay down and close her eyes. The rule is that it's quiet time after 9 and she needs to leave my husband and I alone, we need an hour to ourselves. It's getting to the point now where she argues about everything, every little stupid thing we ask her to do. Brush teeth, get ready for bed, turn off the TV, do your homework, put your stuff away.... the first two times she ignores us and the third time, she starts yelling and then storms off to her room and slams the door. angry.gif



 

journeymom likes this.
Imakcerka is offline  
Reply

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off