9 year old girl sharing a shower with two other girls..........what do you think? - Page 2 - Mothering Forums
View Poll Results: Would you let your 9 year old daughter shower with two of her girlfriends (naked and in one shower)
No 14 42.42%
Yes 19 57.58%
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#31 of 55 Old 02-17-2012, 05:33 PM
 
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I'm not bothered by a parent being in the bathroom when her or his own child is showering or bathing.  I'm somewhat uneasy -- not quite bothered but not quite copacetic -- about a parent finding reason to be in the bathroom when other children are showering.


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#32 of 55 Old 02-17-2012, 09:18 PM
 
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How old are your kids? I still sit in the bathroom while my 8.5 yo ds takes a bath- he likes me to give him math facts during this time.  He also likes me to help him out of the tub with a towel etc.  he is a little immature but that s just how it is in our family.
I am sure he will want more privacy sooner rather than later- but I am his mom and he is not ashamed of his naked body in front of me.

My DD is nine and has been showering without me going into the bathroom for a few years now. I can't remember my mother ever going into the bathroom when I was in there and her friends were showering alone before her, she was a little slow in the independence area. My DD is also not ashamed of her body despite being able to shower eindependentaly and understanding that she should expect adults to keep their eyes off her body. Wanting privacy and feeling shame aren't the same thing.

Daffodil: No a cps call doesn't seem extreme to me if there were other things regarding nudity and privacy that seem okay individually but looked at as part of a whole are very suspicious. A locker room is also very different than a home bathroom. My DD runs around the locker room talking to everybody while she is nude but at home and in her friends homes she feels very differently about her privacy as do most of the friends who come to our home.
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#33 of 55 Old 02-17-2012, 09:49 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Buzzer Beater View Post

What exactly makes this uncomfortable for people? The nudity or the presence of a parent in the bathroom?

 

 


The parent telling the kids to strip and then looking at them -- which is what was described. Them being in water doesn't change those basic facts. It's about who was in control. Its creepy.

 


 

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BTW, moms whose kids have sleepovers, does showering usually go on? We've never done it at our house and my kids have never done it at their friends' houses. They have showered together at the pool many times.


no. It's really not usually to bother with bathing during sleepovers.

 


 

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Really, if the girls didn't have an issue with it?


To me, it crosses the line, which is how perps start. They cross the line in small ways, then in little bit bigger ways.   It's really better to have very clear boundaries. And adults not telling children to take off their clothes and then looking at the children is pretty clearly where a boundary needs to be.

 


 

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 Wanting privacy and feeling shame aren't the same thing.
 


 

Agreed.

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#34 of 55 Old 02-18-2012, 06:41 AM
 
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Daffodil: No a cps call doesn't seem extreme to me if there were other things regarding nudity and privacy that seem okay individually but looked at as part of a whole are very suspicious. A locker room is also very different than a home bathroom. My DD runs around the locker room talking to everybody while she is nude but at home and in her friends homes she feels very differently about her privacy as do most of the friends who come to our home.


I don't get this.  What makes nudity in front of other people okay in a locker room but not in a private home?  Is it that privacy might lead to sexual activity?  Is it that public nudity is "normal" in a locker room and "not normal" at home?  Of course, what's normal at home may be very different in different families.  If your daughter feels differently about privacy when she's at home, I imagine that may be something you've taught her, perhaps even without realizing what you were teaching.  And maybe your clear expectations about privacy influence the way her friends act, too.  You certainly seem to have strong feelings about the subject, and your daughter can't help but be affected by them.

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#35 of 55 Old 02-18-2012, 06:56 AM
 
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I agree with those who say, only if the girls were uncomfortable with it.  They shouldn't be forced to it, but if they don't think it's a big deal - it's not.  And I would hope parents periodically check in on 9 year olds no matter where they are.  If the situation was innocent, then opening the door and asking if everything was okay is a great way to check on them. 


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#36 of 55 Old 02-18-2012, 07:24 AM
 
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I don't get this.  What makes nudity in front of other people okay in a locker room but not in a private home?  Is it that privacy might lead to sexual activity?  Is it that public nudity is "normal" in a locker room and "not normal" at home?  Of course, what's normal at home may be very different in different families.  If your daughter feels differently about privacy when she's at home, I imagine that may be something you've taught her, perhaps even without realizing what you were teaching.  And maybe your clear expectations about privacy influence the way her friends act, too.  You certainly seem to have strong feelings about the subject, and your daughter can't help but be affected by them.

I think I was very clear that it was the adult directing and watching that creeped me out. Yes, I have taught my DD that adults shouldn't watch her do anything naked and if it ever comes up I will teach my dd's friends the same thing. As far as my dd's desire for privacy, I mostly followed her cues and so
e she picked up from me wanting to use the bathroom and shower in peace. I also taught her by not staying in the bathroom to do things for her once she was capable of doing them for herself. I think teaching kids that it isn't normal for adults to have contact with their naked body/private parts starts with the modeling we do at home.

I would worry a little about the exploration aspect that goes on with naked kids this age, but only because that has to be explained to parents nit because I think they are being sexual. As I said a few times though, the thing I see as wrong is the adults actions in this situation.
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#37 of 55 Old 02-18-2012, 07:34 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Linda on the move View Post

 

The parent telling the kids to strip and then looking at them -- which is what was described. Them being in water doesn't change those basic facts. It's about who was in control. Its creepy.

 


It's interesting the way we're all taking the bare outline of events presented in the OP and imagining the situation in different ways, and it's alarming to me that so many people are imagining worst-case scenarios.  What was described was not "the parent telling the kids to strip and then looking at them."  That's one (very extreme) way to imagine it.  I imagined it more like this:  The mom thinks it would be a good idea for the kids to take a shower.  (Maybe they've been running around getting all sweaty.)  Thinking about the amount of time and hot water it would take for 3 kids to shower one after the other, she suggests that they all just hop in the shower together.  The girls happily agree and they go into the bathroom, undress, and start showering.  A few times the mom sticks her head in to make sure nothing inappropriate is going on or to make sure they're all actually showering.  She probably happens to see at least one naked body when she does, but she doesn't pay any particular attention to it.

 

Of course there are a hundred other ways to imagine what happened.  We can imagine the girls are uncomfortable with the situation but afraid to say so.  We can imagine the mom is a pedophile who is getting off on seeing naked girls.  But why would we?  Why does the worst possible explanation come so easily to mind for so many people?  Lenore Skenazy (www.freerangekids.com) calls it "Worst-First" thinking, and I don't think it's a healthy way to go through life (or to teach your kids to go through life.)

 

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#38 of 55 Old 02-18-2012, 08:07 AM
 
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I do think it's a bit strange but not that alarming.

 

I think the strange part is, as others have mentioned, we don't typically deal with bathing if a child is here for a single night. Also probably having something to do with the fact that I don't enjoy sharing a single shower head with other people. Someone always ends up standing wet and cold waiting their turn.

 

But I have thrown my daughter and her cousin 5 and 6 into a bath together on multiple occasions if I thought they needed a bath. Bathing them separate wouldn't have occurred to me.

 

I was also in swim teams at the age of the OPs daughter. The normal routine of the entire team was to strip naked and shower after practice. The shower room was set up with several showers in the open in the middle and stalls lining the walls. I only remember one girl using the stalls everyone else showered with everyone else and then walked naked to their locker to get dressed. I think we'd spent so much time near naked (in swim suits) around each other that naked wasn't an issue. If I had gone to a sleepover at any of those girls houses that same lack of concern about nudity and privacy carried over.

 

I guess I just see Mom coming and going as making sure they weren't making a mess checking to see if they needed anything, ect.


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#39 of 55 Old 02-18-2012, 08:23 AM
 
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I would have a big problem with that.

 

For one thing, a typical home shower is pretty small, and generally not meant to accommodate more than one person. Some 9-yo girls are tiny, but many that I know are approaching the size of a very tiny, petite woman (upper 4 foot ranger, 80-90 lbs). I would be really uncomfortable with my daughter being naked in a very small, enclosed space with 2 other naked girls.  It's not just the nakedness, but the cramped quarters involved, which could make anyone feel pretty uncomfortable.  I see it as being totally different from showering or changing in a locker room, which may or may not have curtains over the stalls, but DO have separate stall or showers for each person.  Or, I would have not problem with a bunch of girls changing together in the bedroom, as long as everyone has adequate space to move around and change without bumping into other people, yk.

 

Plus, there is no way 3 girls could all fit under the spray at once, so they would need to take turns and someone would be left standing around cold/wet at the other end of the tub without the warm water hitting them full on to keep them warm.

 

Now, if this was a special shower or tub meant to accommodate more than 1 person, that would be different, but I'm assuming it's your typical, household shower/tub.

 

 


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#40 of 55 Old 02-18-2012, 08:37 AM
 
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It's interesting the way we're all taking the bare outline of events presented in the OP and imagining the situation in different ways, and it's alarming to me that so many people are imagining worst-case scenarios.  What was described was not "the parent telling the kids to strip and then looking at them."  That's one (very extreme) way to imagine it.  I imagined it more like this:  The mom thinks it would be a good idea for the kids to take a shower.  (Maybe they've been running around getting all sweaty.)  Thinking about the amount of time and hot water it would take for 3 kids to shower one after the other, she suggests that they all just hop in the shower together.  The girls happily agree and they go into the bathroom, undress, and start showering.  A few times the mom sticks her head in to make sure nothing inappropriate is going on or to make sure they're all actually showering.  She probably happens to see at least one naked body when she does, but she doesn't pay any particular attention to it.

 

Of course there are a hundred other ways to imagine what happened.  We can imagine the girls are uncomfortable with the situation but afraid to say so.  We can imagine the mom is a pedophile who is getting off on seeing naked girls.  But why would we?  Why does the worst possible explanation come so easily to mind for so many people?  Lenore Skenazy (www.freerangekids.com) calls it "Worst-First" thinking, and I don't think it's a healthy way to go through life (or to teach your kids to go through life.)

 

 

Maybe it's my Girl Scout leader training, maybe it's just how I was raised to treat guests (namely, to allow them to always feel safe and comfortable,) but there are lines you don't cross with other people's children out of the realization that we are all a sum of different experiences. Personally, I had some pretty hairy experiences on sleep-overs growing up. My eldest has called me up from one party wanting to go home because of the behavior of the mother (who we knew for years and seemed quite normal working along side her at school... turns out, pretty unstable in her personal life.) We had issues in our Girl Scout troop where one mom (again, new her for years) invited some of the girls over and proceeded to photograph them playing in the paddle pool outside naked. I truly believe the mom was just clueless.. she saw them as babies (they were 8) and thought it was cute. However, the families of the girls involved were FURIOUS and not without cause.

 

Like I've said, I don't think it's necessarily "wrong" but it was certainly not a good idea!

 


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#41 of 55 Old 02-18-2012, 08:43 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Daffodil View Post

It's interesting the way we're all taking the bare outline of events presented in the OP and imagining the situation in different ways, and it's alarming to me that so many people are imagining worst-case scenarios.  What was described was not "the parent telling the kids to strip and then looking at them."  



I've got to agree with that. The OP's child wasn't even involved. She heard about this from the child's mom, who heard about it from the child, so we're hearing about it at least third hand. We really don't know exactly what happened nor how it was suggested. I think to demonize this sleep-over mom and say a call to CPS is warranted is over-stepping bounds. It's possible that something nefarious is going on, but it's just as possible that it was completely innocent. 

 

My 8 year old absolutely loves going in the bathroom with her friends. I have no idea why. And they love to get into mischief in the bathroom. I could easily see a scenario where one of my dd's friends might suggest getting in a shower (and there's plenty of room in a tub/shower combo for 3 kids — my 2 shower together often enough, and I used to shower with them when they were littler and I'm bigger than the two of them put together) and the sleep-over mom would agree and then knowing what mischief my kids like to get into in the bathroom (writing on the mirrors with soap—and that's my 11 yr old—splashing around, and generally cutting up) I would expect the mom to poke her head in from time to time to make sure her bathroom wasn't being destroyed and everything was okay. 

 

I mean, even if there wasn't nakedness and a running shower involved, if you had three kids over at your house and you heard lots of squealing and splashing and giggling going on in the bathroom, wouldn't you want to check to see what was going on?

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#42 of 55 Old 02-18-2012, 09:20 AM
 
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Personally, I had some pretty hairy experiences on sleep-overs growing up. My eldest has called me up from one party wanting to go home because of the behavior of the mother (who we knew for years and seemed quite normal working along side her at school... turns out, pretty unstable in her personal life.) We had issues in our Girl Scout troop where one mom (again, new her for years) invited some of the girls over and proceeded to photograph them playing in the paddle pool outside naked. I truly believe the mom was just clueless.. she saw them as babies (they were 8) and thought it was cute. However, the families of the girls involved were FURIOUS and not without cause.

 


Again, the friends that I let my kids spend the night with are good family friends. I haven't yet let my child spend the night with someone that I didn't know very, very well — more than a knew them for years at school or Scouts kinda thing. That time may come, but we're not there yet. When my kids have spent the night it's with families we've known for years and I have been to their homes countless times and they've been to my house many times as well. The moms are my friends as well. So that's coloring my responses. I could totally see this scenario happening at one of our friends houses and since I know the moms (and dads and kids) so well I would know it would be completely innocent. I think it would be unusual for them to need to shower together, but if they all ended up in a manure pile or fell down in a stinky mud puddle or something I could see a scenario where a shower would be needed and I would be totally fine with the mom checking in on my kids during the shower. I think the moms have all seen my kids naked before at the pool, etc.

 

In the situation outlined by whatsnextmom, I would not be happy about naked pictures at all, even if it was a case of thinking of them as babies, but that's harder for me to envision that than the got really smelly-dirty and needed a shower situation. 

 

Just throwing this out there, but a couple of years ago, probably when my dd1 was about 9, we were invited over to a beginning of summer party at a friends' house (not a super close friend, but a good friend and we had been to parties there before) and they got out a kiddie pool or sprinkler. This wasn't planned ahead of time so the younger guests didn't have bathing suits. The mom is European, though, and she just encouraged the kids to get naked. Totally normal in her country of origin, but a little out of my comfort range since it was in the middle of the party with a mix of boys and girls playing and moms and dads all standing around outside chatting and looking on. I think my kids ended up stripping to their undies and playing. 

 

We REALLY don't know very much about the actual situation here and I think jumping to hasty negative conclusions could have negative repercussions if someone were the type to take advice from strangers on the internet (me included). The OP's friend needs to consider the details of the situation (which we don't have and aren't likely to get) and how well she knows the sleep-over mom and her child. Maybe what needs to happen is the OP's friend needs to say to the sleep-over Mom, "I wasn't comfortable with the kids showering together. I'm concerned my dd might like more privacy and I'd rather her not shower at other's homes. I'll have her take a shower at home before she comes." Maybe it was totally out of line and she does need to take firmer action. Maybe her kid thought it was great and was telling her mom how much fun it was and she needs to chill out. Hard to say.


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#43 of 55 Old 02-18-2012, 09:48 AM
 
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I think the point that the sum total of our experience in life will greatly color the way this situation is seen is a good one.  I don't recall exactly how old I was the last time it happened... it seems this arrangement ended at puberty... but I was chucked into plenty of tubs or showers with friends and told to clean myself up right and proper.  And this did frequently involve the mother on duty coming back in prior to the shower ending and running the checklist of what had been cleaned, and supervising said cleaning if you copped to missing a spot.  It was always same-sex, and always the mother supervising, and frankly, we were all, mother included, mainly innocent of the concept of sexual abuse.  We came from a place where women and children didn't know much about that sort of thing, and didn't worry about it too much, as we were dutifully minded and cared for by our menfolk.  Clearly this system has some glaring downsides, and I'm not defending this method of dealing with this aspect of a life in a society, but I can say that the mother standing in the bathroom, glaring down the group of prepubescent girls and demanding that we scrub ourselves correctly was not, in any way sexualizing us;  she was just making damn sure she wasn't the mother that became (in)famous for sending the girls home dirty.   And if it looked odd from the outside we had no idea, because we had never been introduced to the idea of sex abuse and appropriate nudity.  Can you meet with this women and address your concerns, and listen to your gut?  Could it be that she is completely unaware of how her behavior is being viewed?

 

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#45 of 55 Old 02-18-2012, 03:48 PM
 
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Again, the friends that I let my kids spend the night with are good family friends. I haven't yet let my child spend the night with someone that I didn't know very, very well — more than a knew them for years at school or Scouts kinda thing. That time may come, but we're not there yet. When my kids have spent the night it's with families we've known for years and I have been to their homes countless times and they've been to my house many times as well. The moms are my friends as well. So that's coloring my responses. I could totally see this scenario happening at one of our friends houses and since I know the moms (and dads and kids) so well I would know it would be completely innocent. I think it would be unusual for them to need to shower together, but if they all ended up in a manure pile or fell down in a stinky mud puddle or something I could see a scenario where a shower would be needed and I would be totally fine with the mom checking in on my kids during the shower. I think the moms have all seen my kids naked before at the pool, etc.

 

In the situation outlined by whatsnextmom, I would not be happy about naked pictures at all, even if it was a case of thinking of them as babies, but that's harder for me to envision that than the got really smelly-dirty and needed a shower situation. 

 

Just throwing this out there, but a couple of years ago, probably when my dd1 was about 9, we were invited over to a beginning of summer party at a friends' house (not a super close friend, but a good friend and we had been to parties there before) and they got out a kiddie pool or sprinkler. This wasn't planned ahead of time so the younger guests didn't have bathing suits. The mom is European, though, and she just encouraged the kids to get naked. Totally normal in her country of origin, but a little out of my comfort range since it was in the middle of the party with a mix of boys and girls playing and moms and dads all standing around outside chatting and looking on. I think my kids ended up stripping to their undies and playing. 

 

We REALLY don't know very much about the actual situation here and I think jumping to hasty negative conclusions could have negative repercussions if someone were the type to take advice from strangers on the internet (me included). The OP's friend needs to consider the details of the situation (which we don't have and aren't likely to get) and how well she knows the sleep-over mom and her child. Maybe what needs to happen is the OP's friend needs to say to the sleep-over Mom, "I wasn't comfortable with the kids showering together. I'm concerned my dd might like more privacy and I'd rather her not shower at other's homes. I'll have her take a shower at home before she comes." Maybe it was totally out of line and she does need to take firmer action. Maybe her kid thought it was great and was telling her mom how much fun it was and she needs to chill out. Hard to say.


Of course we don't know lol. The OP was just asking for opinions on how individuals would feel and those were shared. Then those who had any reservations were accused of being ridiculous shame monsters lol.

 

Whatever, I shared my position and it's been a wise one for us. On to the next topic.. geesh.

 

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#46 of 55 Old 02-18-2012, 04:03 PM
 
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I'm in the UK.

 

If my DD did not WANT to shower with others and had voiced that and had been told she must then i would have expected her to call me to be picked up.  If she didn't mind i wouldn't mind.  The mom popping her head round the door is not even on my radar.  Kids of 9 mess about, waste shampoo, flood the floors, you name it.  If it were in my house i'd pop my head in now and then to monitor things too.  I am not a creepy abuser, i am just a tired mum who could do without a flooded kitchen to mop up and another 3 bottles of bathing products to replace.

 

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#47 of 55 Old 02-18-2012, 05:13 PM
 
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Of course we don't know lol. The OP was just asking for opinions on how individuals would feel and those were shared. Then those who had any reservations were accused of being ridiculous shame monsters lol.


I've read the entire thread, and I didn't see anyone being shamed... Just sayin'.

 

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#48 of 55 Old 02-18-2012, 06:22 PM
 
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I don't know, I learned a long time ago not to deal in the world of hypotheticals because it tends to bring out the worst in me.  What I see in the original post is a bare-bones, non-witness (therefore hearsay) statement of what happened.  A friend tells you that her second cousin saw your DH talking to an attractive lady on the bus and they got off at the same stop.  What would you think?  [insert every possible scenario here].

 

Three 9-year-old girls sharing a shower and mom popping in to check on them?  I don't know, I need more facts before I can form an opinion.  Mom "had them take a shower together."  What were the circumstances surrounding that?  We take showers at home together for water conservation purposes.  I would imagine that if I had a gaggle of pre-teens who wanted to use my shower, taking it together would certainly be something that I suggest, since I'm stuck with the water bill.  There are just so many ways to spin this. That being said, I wish I had been more sure of myself at that age to shower with other girls.  I was incredibly ashamed of my body because it was inferred over and over again to me that it was something to be hidden.  Not because it was so precious but because it was something negative.  To this day, I am ashamed of  my own body, and I wish things were different.  Even in gym class throughout secondary school, I used to devise dressing and undressing in a way where no one saw any part of my body.

 

I say all this with the recognition that there are instances where children and others are abused and taken advantage of, and I'm not attempting to undermine that.  But at the same time, I wish that I had been given the opportunity to celebrate my body, to feel confident in it and to not be ashamed of it.  I would hope that before DD is in the "situation" that OP describes, that she knows all the appropriate responses, etc.  It is my responsibility to first of all make sure she is in a situation where she is secure and knows how to handle the situation if it is out of the ordinary or uncomfortable.

 

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#49 of 55 Old 02-20-2012, 06:28 AM
 
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Going a bit off from the original post (which, I agree, was pretty pretty much hearsay - we don't know what the actual situation was...)... There can be a really fine line between modesty and shame. Should kids just prance around everywhere starkers? Of course not. But... the whole "no one should look at your body" line also concerns me. I was brought up with the whole "your body is private, no one should see it, etc." and I do think it's led me to be more self-conscious than is good. Funnily enough, it is my daughter who has taught me. She is modest when appropriate, but doesn't hide her body, either. It's hers, and she's happy with it. When her friends complain about their bodies, she tells them that they are beautiful the way they are and should celebrate that. Isn't that what we should want for all of our children? Especially our girls?

 

I'm not saying that anyone here is teaching their child to be ashamed of his/her body. But... realize that it can be a fine line. Many. many girls have body images - how do we, as parents, contribute to that?

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#50 of 55 Old 02-21-2012, 07:28 AM
 
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What this thread is telling me is that I need to think long and hard about what friends will be invited over to our house for overnights, when my DD reaches the age when that happens (she's only 3 now). And think carefully about the circumstances under which she'll be allowed to stay over with her friends.

 

Children can come home, report what happened at the sleepover, and then have their words construed in a million different ways. Perhaps it's best to only do sleepovers with children of families that you know well, whose parents you have a trusting relationship with. That way if anything comes up in the post-sleepover "report", there's the opportunity to talk about it & work through any differences, and make adjustments for the next time.


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#51 of 55 Old 02-22-2012, 05:45 AM
 
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Quote:

Originally Posted by CI Mama View Post

 

Perhaps it's best to only do sleepovers with children of families that you know well, whose parents you have a trusting relationship with. That way if anything comes up in the post-sleepover "report", there's the opportunity to talk about it & work through any differences, and make adjustments for the next time.


That's what we do CI Mama. Works for us so far.

 


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#52 of 55 Old 02-22-2012, 06:07 AM
 
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My (girl) friends and I took baths and showers together all the time, went skinny dipping, went in the sauna together,we never thought that it could be weird. Actually I remember taking a bath with one of my male friends when I was 4 or 5, didn't think that was weird, either. Hippie parents, what can I say. 

However, if the girls felt uncomfortable and like they were forced to take a shower together, and uncomfortable at the mom coming in, that would be a completely different situation and not appropriate. I couldn't tell from the post which one it was.

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#53 of 55 Old 02-22-2012, 08:35 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CI Mama View Post
Children can come home, report what happened at the sleepover, and then have their words construed in a million different ways. Perhaps it's best to only do sleepovers with children of families that you know well, whose parents you have a trusting relationship with. That way if anything comes up in the post-sleepover "report", there's the opportunity to talk about it & work through any differences, and make adjustments for the next time.


That works for a while, but eventually you could end up saying "no" just because YOU don't know the parent. And is that fair to teenager? You can only go over to the people's houses for sleepovers if I know the mommy?

 

With a *child,* may be. but with a *teen,* it would IMHO, be overprotective and inappropriate. My younger DD has spent the night with people I barely knew but that she knew quite well. And kids have spent the night at our house that I couldn't have picked their parent out of a line up.

 

 

 


but everything has pros and cons  shrug.gif

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#54 of 55 Old 02-23-2012, 06:45 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Hi Mommies. I posted the original post......so I guess it's time to close it............you've all been great about sharing...thank you.  Everyone had insight on all levels (looking at nudity, modesty, privacy, home vs locker room, calling cps, sleep over rules, girls doing what moms did at their ages, etc etc).  I appreciate everyone's time....and all the different opinions. Thanks. thumb.gif


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#55 of 55 Old 03-19-2012, 07:59 PM
 
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I wouldn't feel comfortable with the situation especially since they were naked and the mom was "checking on them...." Doesn't sound right to me. Anyways, I have 3 girls (aged 18, 13, and 9) and all of them (especially the younger 2) are developing faster than the "normal rate" so they would be self-conscious if showering in front of others. When my girls have friends over, showering and changing is done separately.
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