I think that making out at school at any age is a big deal, and doing it repeatedly after getting in trouble for it is a sign of a problem.
For those that feel the school over reacted, I'm curious what you think schools should do when children are busy doing their best to sneak off and make out, and at exactly what point you feel the parents should be brought into the loop.
Part of the problem with blowing off this behavior as not being a big deal at school is drawing the line about exactly where the line is. Because of how difficult it is to draw that line, I can see schools draw it where they do -- keep you hands and lips and all other body parts to yourself at school.
but everything has pros and cons
Linda, I'm pretty sure the OP never said they "made out". That has a connotation of really heavy kissing and groping to me.
The note included that B was her boyfriend, they love eachother, that they want to kiss. also a sneeky plan to get invited over to a friends house that he lives close to so they can hang out.
Note that she says the plan is so they can HANG out not make out.
There's no indication from the OP that the kissing is any more than a peck on the check or a peck on the lips. In fact, in the OP's first post there's mention of 1 kiss that actually happened and that they "want to kiss". In post #12 the OP says they had a second kiss at school and were caught and then had to do the no contact contract or suspension. So all we have to go on is notes that they want to kiss and two instances where they were kissing that we know about (one because she found a note that said they kissed, and one because another child told on them—there's no instance of an adult actually seeing them kiss).
Today i got a call from the school saying that she had kissed him again and that another kid told. They gathered all the notes out of her desk and had the school counselor talk with her. She and the boy now have a no contact contract which means if either of them interacts with eachother they will get suspended.
I'm not at all getting that they "are busy doing their best to sneak off and make out". I'm getting that the OP's dd likes to write notes a lot, but I'm not sure that writing about a "big plan" is the same as trying to implement the big plan. The OP doesn't say that her dd did get invited over to a friend's house and hang out with the boy. I think she could be fantasizing this completely. I mean, obviously she likes the boy, and kissed him, but if she wrote a note about running away to Vegas to marry him that doesn't mean it's going to happen or even that she's trying to make it happen. I think it's fine to call her on it, but I'd do it in a collaborative way -- "Hey, I found these notes on the floor. Sounds like you really like B. If you want to hang out, you don't have to sneak, though. Let's invite him over for supper."
And I'm not at all getting any idea of how involved the boy is in all this. We have a bunch of notes that she wrote. To whom? The boy? A girlfriend? Herself as a kind of diary? We don't have any notes that the boy wrote. We don't have any indication at all of his involvement other than they kissed. He may be at the water fountain or the swings and she comes up and plants one on him and another kid sees and tells. Or he may be wooing her into the playhouse and sneaking away with her. We really don't have any details on that.
I get that the OP is incredibly concerned and worried for her daughter and that the school is making a really big deal about it, but I'm not clear at all that it is a really big deal. It could be, but the details aren't here in this thread.
If two kids are really sexually acting out (say, taking off their clothes, or really groping each other, or really passionately kissing each other) I think something should certainly be said to the parents and the kids and some action taken. I am not clear that that is what happened in this instance, though. I don't know how the school can be clear about that either since what we have is #1 a note that said that they kissed and #2 another child telling on them. It's possible that an adult saw the second kiss (that they were still kissing by the time the child who told on them got the teacher's attention), but the OP never says that, so we have no way of knowing what it looked like from a reliable source, and certainly the OP didn't see the kissing.
I can see schools draw it (the line) where they do -- keep you hands and lips and all other body parts to yourself at school.
But they don't! At my kids' public elementary school kids interact physically all the time at recess, work collaboratively on projects, etc. Kids walk into school arm in arm and hand in hand both girls and girls, boys and boys, and girls and boys. I'm fine with them saying no kissing at school, but an innocent peck on the lips is far better in my book than hitting and kicking and shoving which certainly happens plenty in elementary school. A peck on the cheek or lips is not something to threaten suspension over unless perhaps it was bullying behavior. Certainly it should be corrected, but in the same manner that you might correct a child who played with another child a little bit too roughly (not a fight, which is another kettle of fish entirely).
ETA: I think that some of us on this thread (me initially, and maybe some others) are picking up on the OP's obvious concern and distress and may be guilty of jumping to conclusions about the behavior and that's coloring our reactions. It's really unclear how passionate/age-inappropriate or how innocent the behavior may or may not have been. It's clear that it may be causing the dd some distraction and her school work may suffer, but that could certainly happen with girl note-passing and gossip, too.
"All you fascists are bound to lose" — Woody Guthrie
(deleted double post)
"All you fascists are bound to lose" — Woody Guthrie
There's also no indication that it was just a peck, either on the lips or the check.
I can see why schools draw the line the way the do, and I'm surprised that other parents don't.
Yesterday I dropped my 14 year old off at an academic camp on a university campus. The kids are staying in the dorms, and it's a co-ed program. They had a one hour orientation that parents had to stay for that went over rules and safety. One thing that was made very clear is that if kids are visiting the room of a another participant who happens to be the opposite gender, the door MUST remain open. If this rule is broken, the parents are immediately called and both kids are sent home. They don't even have to be touching.
In a group situation where adults are legally and ethically responsible for other people's children, the rules are pretty tight and the line may be more extreme than some of us would draw for our own kids.
There is a MASSIVE difference between two kids bumping into each other while working together or holding hands while skipping or other casual contact and ANT contact that is sexual in nature (if that is boy/girl stuff or same sex stuff).
but everything has pros and cons
Schools are covering their hind-ends from law suits. It wouldn't be inconceivable that the boyfriend's parents could give the school heck for not protecting their son from sexual harassment. Or they could angrily confront the girl's father and mother. It's ridiculous, but stuff like this happens.
Talk about ridiculous lawsuits... my DD's school is having issues with parents threatening to sue over their kids not being able to go on end of year trip because of bad grades, misbehavior, etc.
Sorry to go off on a tangent there, but anyway...
I had a crush on a boy when I was five, and he liked me back. We never got beyond holding hands and proposing to each other- my "boyfriend" actually gave me this ring of his mom's to wear to show off our love to each other. It stopped, though. My parents thought it was absolutely hilarious seeing five-year-olds proposing to each other on the playground and they did strongly advise us against marrying, as we didn't have any money or a house to live in, etc. to support our marriage. We broke it off when I pushed him too hard on the swing and he fell off, so he got mad and the relationship basically went kaput after that. He did kiss me on the lips ONCE, but I hated how it felt, so we never repeated the action. The funny thing is that as an adult we are STILL friends, and that as a teenager, I actually despised him! I guess what I'm saying is to have a sense of humor about the whole thing.
Kids of all different ages have romantic feelings, but they usually don't act on them sexually. And your daughter's only ten- it probably won't be a serious relationship, and it won't last long. Of course, it probably helped that we were friends LONG before we had certain feelings for each other, so our parents knew each other quite well and talked to each other about our relationships. Of course, if the boy is encouraging her to go further than that, then certainly get involved. Still, have a talk with your child about sex, pregnancy, dating, how love is portrayed in the media, etc. That way she knows the boundaries of what's appropriate and what's not. have a talk with her about what she wants- does she picture having a wonderful relationship with this guy? And ask her for her honest opinion of this boy. If she says that he is simply cute or something like that, tell her to look a little deeper- does he make her laugh? Is he nice? Does he help her with homework? If so, then I would consider encouraging her to continue to see him- with parents present, of course. And also get face to face (or call her at least) with her mom- explain that you are concerned that the things she watches at home with her is making her act on those feelings. I'm sure that you can figure out a common theme so that your daughter is not seeing conflicting traditions and rules at either home.
As for the groundings and things like that- yes, punish her for lying, but let's try having you explain to her this way:
"honey, I wish you hadn't lied to me. I could have helped you figure out what to do when you're bored, if only you asked. I felt really hurt. I felt hurt like as if I'd told you we had ice cream, and you got all excited, but it turned out that there's no ice cream. You'd feel awful, right? That's how I felt. I'm trying to protect you from watching bad things on T.V., but you're making this hard to do."
Then have a discussion about how being sneaky and lying can hurt people, and then solve the problem by brainstorming possibilities of other things she can do when she's bored, or tempted to lie or be sneaky, etc.
I know this is long and kind of confusing, but do you get what I'm trying to say?
Raising three crazy girls in a loving home in IL. One lil writer, Actor (not belly dancer! Please!) and of course, our lil one says . "We're all in this together"... (high school musical-- EEP!).
just wanted to come back and answer some questions. it was more than a peck on the cheek, it was several lip kisses which doesn't perticularly matter. the notes were very involved with him using inappropriate language such as sexy and hot. recently the boy was caught taking off his clothes at recess and trying to get my dd to ask another girl to strip dance at recess. dd didnt seem to be involved but the principle called and said she was being cooperative. I asked that he was to be placed in a different class from her next year. She has been pretty good but yesterday on my birthday i was extremely ill throwing up. DS got sick at school also so we were both home quite ill. DD was going on a field trip today and I specifically told her no electronics on the bus, she used the time i was in the bathroom throwing up to get her Nintendo ds out of the closet and put it in her backpack. after a long night of being sick i got up early because she really needs new shoes and i was going to drive her to school(instead of taking the bus) and get some shoes, i look in her backpack to put her lunch in and there's the ds. i dont understand why she takes advantage of my already crappy birthday to lie and sneak a toy she knew she wasn't allowed to take to school .Im so exhausted and its finals week of DH's senior year of college so i dont want to bug him with this right now and DS is sill puking and im just exhaused. I dont ge why she is constantly pushing us lately i dont even know if i have the energy to deal with any of this right now.
I'm so sorry you were ill! It just makes everything 10 times harder to deal with.
One Girl is right, it's not personal. She didn't take advantage of you, at least not consciously. I know when I was 10 y.o. I took my mom for granted for the most part.
everything is sexualized and it is put that way to make us feel like we fit in this world, that we are part of this because we are involved in someway, because we dress, talk, watch, play in these roles. it is all part of the control. we are part of the sexualization so we fit in. good sheep tactics.
my daughter is starting to show an interest in boys she is nearly nine, this is far too soon for my liking but that is the society we live in, so you either wise them up and let them no the facts earlier or you leave them finding their own way. its quite innocent at the moment but its there. also there are many cultures where this happens earlier and these cultures are very wise and loving and take care of each other their enviroment and future generations, which is more than i can say for ours.
educating our young is so important, educating them is spending time with them letting them no that each creature on this earth is just as important if not more, because creating another human means more consuming as we take more than we ever give back.
I have a 10-year-old boy and there are definitely kids in his class who sneak away during recess and kiss behind the PE building. There was one unfortunate girl who did most of the kissing, with a line of boys trying to kiss her. They all got caught and were no longer allowed free reign of the playground. But I know most of the kids involved and they're all basically good kids who were just experimenting, and who needed help setting limits.
Personally, I don't think a kiss or even a crush is that big of a deal at this age. But I would be concerned if my 10-year-old was only interested in the opposite sex. While my son has had a crush on a certain girl for going on two years, he's also very into several sports, music, and has a handful of good buddies he does activites with. At this age, I feel they need to be exploring and developing a wide variety of interests. Sounds like you're on the right track with sports and music for your dd.
The one thing I'm concerned about in your situation is all the punishment. It sounds like the school is handling things as they see fit (and it sounds a tad bit extreme to me), so I think you need to back off on the punishment at home and instead foster your relationship. I can see how you need to give your dd a consequence for lying, but you need to quickly move past that.. Taking away media for the rest of the school year seems out of proportion to her "crime," and I don't think it will bring you the outcome you're looking for. I think instead, you might want to think about how you want this to resolve (better communication with your dd?) and pursue activities that foster the outcome you're looking for.
If you also want her to forget the boy, how about a lot of fun summer camps or afterschool activities that don't involve him?
Regardless, I would really try to avoid setting up this conflict as a "you win/ she loses" scenario. Instead, I would try to help her understand appropriate behavior, while still validating her feelings. I would also make sure you let her know that you have faith in her and that your high standards are because you know she's worth it and it responsible enough to deal with those expectations.
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