Depression or PMS or what??? Heeeelp! - Mothering Forums
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#1 of 26 Old 08-20-2013, 11:45 PM - Thread Starter
 
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OMG you girls have got to help me.  PLEEEEASE. 

I don't know what is going on with my daughter.

She's 13 next month. 

She's had her period for a year now.

She seems to be getting depressed.  She's crying all the time and it's hard to get her out of her room to go do anything.

But the strange thing is that it is now; every day, not just pre period or ovulation time. 

She says she cries every day.

She used to be such a happy child.

This has been going on for about the last 3 months but majorly getting worse.  I hear her crying in her room on her bed alone, so she's not doing it for attention. 

Is this a normal thing after one gets her period? 

I've never had to deal with this before, I don't get pms or depression myself so this is foreign to me.

I went to the dr. with her last week and we told him and he is testing her bld for iron and we are booked Monday to see the results. 

He asked dd if she'd like to speak to a councilor but she said no, but she told me that now she thinks it's a good idea.

What the hell is going on?  This whole thing is making me super depressed!

She eats really healthy, we just became vegatarians about 3 months ago.  Maybe we should eat some chicken.  ??

I can get her to exercise off and on, that seems to help.  She says nothing helps.

Anyone go through this with their daughter????

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#2 of 26 Old 08-21-2013, 07:42 AM
 
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Wait and see what the medical results are. Rule out any physical ailments. If you are new to vegetarianism, she could be low on iron which can make you anemic and tired but not depressed and crying (I've been a veggie since age 9... my kids all their lives.) Put her on a daily vitamin and increase leafy greens. Eating chicken isn't going to fix this but if you are worried about protein, a peanut butter sandwich works too.

 

I remember being pretty weepy at 12. I cried at the drop of a hat. My DD was weepy too at 14 (she's a little later on the puberty scale.) It sounds more extreme in your DD but go for some counselling, see what the doctor says, ask about a natural supplement like st. john's wart. It does sound like her hormones are all out-of-whack.

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#3 of 26 Old 08-21-2013, 01:57 PM
 
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My DD has been a vegetarian who barely eats healthy food her whole life and her iron is always normal, even being lactose intolerant... I don't think vegetarianism will do that in 3 months, maybe, mayyyybe veganism but I doubt it. Iron deficiency due to very heavy periods or other medical problems (Chron's, ulcerative colitis, leukemias and renal disease to name a few) are more likely... This sounds like classic depression to me, and I would take her to therapy and put her on the pill if it didn't get better by 14. A lot of adolescent girls get crazy mood swings until their hormones normalize, typified by the "laughing one minute and crying the next" phenomenon. But it sounds like your DD isn't getting the highs as well, which makes me think depression. Some degree of hating everything and over emotionality is part of being 13, crying every day is not the status quo for most, though.

I would give her B12 complex and you could try Bach rescue remedy or Ylang Ylang or certain nettles if you want to do more homeopathy. Good luck, mama. 13 can be a rough ride, I am only a few months out with mine who is moody her fair share of the time. Just try to do things you both like together, if you can.
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#4 of 26 Old 08-21-2013, 03:12 PM
 
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My DD has been a vegetarian who barely eats healthy food her whole life and her iron is always normal, even being lactose intolerant... I don't think vegetarianism will do that in 3 months, maybe, mayyyybe veganism but I doubt it. Iron deficiency due to very heavy periods or other medical problems (Chron's, ulcerative colitis, leukemias and renal disease to name a few) are more likely... 
Individuals process iron differently. It's great that your DD's iron is good despite an unhealthy diet. Personally, if I go a month with a less than stellar diet, I start bruising and test low  in iron. A teenager who already had rough periods and goes vegetarian can certainly start getting anemic in 3 months. 
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#5 of 26 Old 08-21-2013, 03:53 PM - Thread Starter
 
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thank you guys so much for putting so much effort into your replies!  I totally appreciate it, knowing how busy everyone is.

I went to Walmart to get St.John's wort pills and asked the pharmacist where it is and told her the situation and she said 'Don't just give that to your daughter without the Dr. telling you to do it because it increasing Saratonin just just antidepressants'.  I said well, antidepressants have  side effects, like wanting to kill yourself. 

Now I'm afraid to give it to her and her appointment is Monday.  She is super depressed NOW. 

Is it safe to give it to her? I bought it.

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#6 of 26 Old 08-22-2013, 01:32 PM
 
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Whatsnextmom, I actually have a career in the medical field and I can tell you that "going less than a month with a less than stellar diet" does not produce anemia in normal people who absorb iron efficiently. If this is the case for you, I would take a look at your blood work closely if you are not menopausal as this is an indicator of other health problems. If your body absorbs iron as it should, and you aren't eating an iron rich diet, it would take quite some time to become anemic unless blood loss is an issue.
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#7 of 26 Old 08-22-2013, 01:35 PM
 
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MicheleRMT, St. John's wort is pretty disputed in the medical field as to its effectiveness for depression... For people who aren't suffering from imbalances, it definitely helps stabilize mood, but it can cause imbalances if everything's out of whack, so I would see what the Dr says. B vitamins are good for anyone, though (in normal dosage) so I would start that ASAP.
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#8 of 26 Old 08-22-2013, 02:05 PM
 
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Originally Posted by onyxfire View Post

Whatsnextmom, I actually have a career in the medical field and I can tell you that "going less than a month with a less than stellar diet" does not produce anemia in normal people who absorb iron efficiently. If this is the case for you, I would take a look at your blood work closely if you are not menopausal as this is an indicator of other health problems. If your body absorbs iron as it should, and you aren't eating an iron rich diet, it would take quite some time to become anemic unless blood loss is an issue.

 

Haha, been done several times throughout my life. My doctor would disagree with your. I'm within normal range, good health. We do eat iron rich forms except for during travel and such when I start feeling the effect. When I'm pregnant, I have to take a special supplement but generally, not an issue. Some of us are more sensitive to our bodies being off kilter. This girl could be one of them... who knows. You are more than welcome to consider yourself an expert but you aren't an expert on my body lol. Besides, didn't I say low-iron can make you tired but not weepy and depressed? I only suggested that if she's worried about that, a supplement or extra leafy greens in the diet could put her mind at rest?.... and then go see an actual doctor.

 

OP, as I said, I wouldn't do anything until you talk to the doctor. There are all sorts of supplements but bodies are different. Without discussing with a doctor, you won't know what will be the best fit for her. This is a tough age. My eldest was unhappy and depressed at 14 like I mentioned but for her, it was largely hormonal combined with a poor educational environment.


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#9 of 26 Old 08-22-2013, 02:18 PM
 
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Haha?

I never said I was an expert, all I said was it would take a normal individual eating a healthy diet, as the op mentioned her DD did, longer than 2-3 weeks to become anemic upon becoming vegetarian. You can ask any doctor you like, I am sure they will agree.
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#10 of 26 Old 08-22-2013, 02:45 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I gave her the st. John's wort last night and she's taken 2 again so far, since they saw on the bottle 3 a day.

She says she feels a little better so far.

Went to Walmart and she got her bld pressure tested on one of those machines where you sit down.  It said 97 over 43, pulse 72.  Should I rush to a dr.'s for low bld pressure or wait to see him Mon for our appoint?

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#11 of 26 Old 08-23-2013, 01:37 PM
 
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Low blood pressure is common with kids and teens, 97 is fine but the 43 worries me a bit... Is she showing any symptoms of thyroid problems, like being cold often or very hungry? Depression can definitely be caused by thyroid problems.
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#12 of 26 Old 08-23-2013, 05:47 PM - Thread Starter
 
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OMG onxyfire!  The dr. checked for hypothyroidism cause I have it.  Hopefully that is the problem cause it's easily remedied. 

Also the St. John's is really helping her.  Can't wait for the results from the dr. MOnday!!! I'll post.

Thank you guys for all the thoughtful advice!

Michele xoxoxo

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#13 of 26 Old 08-26-2013, 01:18 PM
 
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Glad it's helping her! Keep us posted, hope it's something easy to diagnose/treat...
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#14 of 26 Old 08-26-2013, 01:31 PM - Thread Starter
 
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thank you.  On the way to dr.s right now to find out if iron or thyroid is out of wack.  I'm going to ask for a whole hormone test too! 

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#15 of 26 Old 08-27-2013, 12:44 PM
 
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keep an eye on diet too. See if there is anything that gives her the blues. Sugar does it for my dd - in any form. Good sugar or bad. Fruit or candy. All the same. 

 

You will be surprised to know how many teens have therapists. We are on the way to get one for dd. Its a topic people are not open about. So it is healthy for her to have someone to talk to whom she trusts. 


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#16 of 26 Old 08-27-2013, 02:33 PM
 
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I've seen a therapist off and on since I was 17 when I was diagnosed with bipolar disorder. It can take a while to find one that is a good match, one who actually is understanding, empathetic, knowledgeable, and who helps.

 

Is it easy to go years without anemia being diagnosed? I went through four pregnancies before finally someone who was not even a medical professional told me that the bruises on my foot were from anemia, and this was after my OB/GYN for the last two pregnancies told me it was from being pregnant. I forgot to bring up the possible anemia when I saw the doctor last week to check my thyroid (being treated for hypothyroidism) so I need to remember it for next time. I take blackstrap molasses almost every day for it anyway, since it is rich in iron.

 

I will pray for your daughter, Michele!


May God bless you and His Blessed Mother Mary keep you!  :-)

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#17 of 26 Old 08-27-2013, 09:00 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thank you ladies.

The dr. said her iron is a little low so I am to give her iron pills 3 times a week.  Thyroid is fine.

I asked if it would be a good idea to test her hormones and he said no.

What?

He gave me the name of a therapist (physcologist)  that he says is awesome for teens.  I called her last night and today and she did not call me back.  Kind of desperate here!  ah.

Went to the Chinese traditional herbal dr again today and told him the other stuff didn't go a thing.  He gave her another bad of herbs to boil into tea.  We told him that she's been taking St. John's wort pills and he kind of dismissed that like those are lame.?? weird.

I'll let you know if the therapist calls.  thanks for listening to me.  This is the most stressful time in my life!

I'm sure it will get better though, that's just what happens.

:)

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#18 of 26 Old 08-27-2013, 09:39 PM
 
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first let me tell you this is not a for the rest of her life sentence. 

 

People dont talk about how prevalant teenage depression is. 

 

How is her physical activity level?

 

We are about to first enrol my dd in martial arts before we get her a therapist. 

 

She just needs to talk to someone who gives her some ideas of how to handle her thoughts. CBT has proven very useful. 

 

When i was researching by middle school most of my friends kids had a therapist. 

 

I have noticed some times their ‘darkness’ peaks. For a few months it is horrible for them. Then it goes down and then up again.

 

Increase your physical touch with her. Do more stuff together. Increase your one on one time together. 

 

She is not suicidal is she? Ask her that specifically. If she knows what that is. If she will let you put her to bed. 

 

But absolutely go as a family to the therapist. Then she might go alone and then you can go alone or together as a family. The therapist will work not only with her but with every member of her immediate family with her in mind. 

 

Make sure she knows she has people to talk to. Councilors at school. Teachers. 

 

Is anything going on at school? 

 

Sadly what your dd is going thru is pretty common. I’ve posted similar questions and so many mama’s said they went thru something similar. Some needed help, others struggled through it and came out OK. 


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#19 of 26 Old 08-27-2013, 10:07 PM - Thread Starter
 
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oh thanks you, that makes me feel so much better.  So did you get a time line at all?  It seems to be getting worse, month by month.  Maybe 2 years of this? ONe year?  It's really getting ME depressed, when your child is sick, you wish you could take it instead.

PLus, no one is real life knows, not like other sickness's.  It's difficult hiding it from the world.

 

We just started homeschooling her last Nov.  She is going to be homeschooled again this year.  We need to get her into an activity with other kids but guess what, all of the sudden she seems to HATE everything!

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#20 of 26 Old 08-27-2013, 10:08 PM - Thread Starter
 
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oh and she eats really healthy.  Also she is not suicidal, she said she does not have those thoughts.

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#21 of 26 Old 08-28-2013, 05:25 AM
 
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One other thing I thought of, since she eats healthy and she is homeschooled: does she have a journal she can write in to help her work through and maybe organize her thoughts? Even when I'm not in therapy (it sometimes helps to show an occasional journal entry to the therapist and talk about it), it helps me. Mari McCarthy has some helpful exercises, and Mary Ellen Copelend's Wellness Recovery Action Plan (WRAP) program can be helpful too.

http://www.createwritenow.com - Mari McCarthy

http://www.mentalhealthrecovery.com/wrap/  If you are interested in WRAP, I am a WRAP Facilitator (which means I can help you write your own WRAP) and if you send me a private message I'll help you out at no charge. (If you're not interested, that's fine too of course! I just wanted to give you the option.)


May God bless you and His Blessed Mother Mary keep you!  :-)

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Oh good. She is not suicidal.

 

Wow mama this has been going on for a while. Yikes. She really NEEDS to see a therapist. She might even need some medication to get through this. If talk or CBT wont work. If she is anything like my dd then she might find WRAP daunting. My dd has a hard time with those emotions. It just goes through her body and shuts her down. Something it seems like what your dd is going through. So what we are going to do is first get dd in a martial arts program to be able to deal with her feelings through exercise (dd meditates and hates competitive sports so the Korean martial arts is perfect for her) and THEN get her into therapy. I have to fight my exh on this. 

 

Is she an introvert or extrovert? Does she have good friends she might like to hang out with more?

 

I have a suggestion. There is this magazine which has a very safe chat group. I’ll go and figure out the name of the magazine and it might be something your dd might enjoy. Reading the magazine and have others her age to talk to incognito. 


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#23 of 26 Old 08-29-2013, 02:21 PM
 
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Michele, I read this and thought of you and your daughter:

http://blogs.psychcentral.com/bonding-time/2013/08/to-medicate-or-not-to-medicate/

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May God bless you and His Blessed Mother Mary keep you!  :-)

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#24 of 26 Old 08-31-2013, 01:06 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Thank you guys so much for putting so much time into helping me and everyone else who is trying to learn about all this stuff. Mind boggling. :dizzy

 

I think it is very strong pms not just depression.

 

So I have been giving her Chinese Tradition Eastern Medicine tea but got new stuff just for depression (not pms) and she's been taking this new stuff for about 2 days. Also she and I went to a physcologist yesterday (which was $160.00 for 45 minutes).  I've been spending almost every second with her, and she likes that, she can't get enough of my time.  (hard to clean the house or go anything else).  She's journaled on her own and it's not fun to read.  :(

But seems to help her the most is yesterday she got her period.  She may have cramps a little and having to deal with pads etc but her mood is WAY better.  Her last period was 22 days before only and it's really strong bld flow.  So I'm hoping just pms and so therefore, it will not be a lifetime every day problem.

flowerkitty.gif

I'm trying to get friends to come over to hang out with her which seems to help a little.  There's few around.  So I'm digging up ppl from past and live far away, I'm desperate, I'll drive for an hour to pick up a kid and bring her over, then drive her home the next day.  Did that a couple days ago.  Worth it.  Not many friends when you homeschool.

:o

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#25 of 26 Old 08-31-2013, 01:10 AM - Thread Starter
 
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oh and when she has a friend over, you'd Never know that she is depressed.  She's happy around them, then when they go, she's sad again.

For instance, check out the video her and her friend made when I took them to Victoria for the day.  This is the friend that's an hour away.

My daughter is the one wearing black with blond braids.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuJSpMlffow

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#26 of 26 Old 08-31-2013, 09:01 AM
 
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michele your video made me smile. even though my dd is 2 years younger i feel so 'connected' to you because our situation is sooooo similar including the cup song and black.

 

here is a reason why i still think you should see a counsellor. hopefully they will be cheaper than the psychologist. hopefully you can get someone your dd likes. 

 

dont be fooled by the happiness. so yes sometimes she is happy. but she still needs the talk. the point is not about tomorrow. it is about today. i feel like what children like this needs is a mentor. i have seen other kids go through this where a close elder would have been it. NOT a parent. but another elder. since i dont have that it will have to be a therapist. 

 

just someone ur dd could talk to. watch your dd. is she truly happy or do you sometimes see the light not reach her eyes. my dd is a great actress. at 3 she reminded me that just coz she doesnt cry at daycare and runs around, doesnt mean she isnt sad inside still. she just hides it. 

 

how can you hold on to this way of life. organizing friends? it  takes a lot of organizing and its not easy. you cant sustain what you are doing now. and what you are doing now is just delaying the issue. at some point she will be alone and she will be upset again. 

 

in my books drugs are drugs. whether they are natural or not. still drugs. no matter natural or not, they are chemicals and we have no idea how what else they are doing. the thing you KNOW is your dd's depression is situational. i KNOW that about my dd too. but whether it is situational or not, it still IS depression right now. my dd is an only - a dd who wanted siblings, an extrovert child - and so it makes it worse, along with personal issues. 

 

things will get worse as she grows up. it would be nice to get it off her shoulders. journaling is fantastic. its great that she can get it out. 

 

please forgive me if i come on too strongly. perhaps i am wrong in your dd's case. at least half of the middle and high school kids i know are in therapy. my bro wasnt and he killed himself. 

 

which is why i still tell parents all around me please take this seriously. not saying you aren't. and the reason why i am being so insistent is coz of what you say your dd has gone through.  i myself went thru it when i was going through a divorce. i myself KNEW it was situational. but i still needed help. i dont know how i would gone through the dark nights of the soul without help. i dont anymore but at that time i did. 

 

its been going on for 3 months. and its getting worse. i would rather go for talk therapy first, because it will give her another perspective in life and see how this all works out. but the key is finding the right councellor/therapist. someone who will see her for the next 5 or 6 years. 

 

what did the psychologist say? if he pushed drugs i'd be a little hesitant. i'd go for talk and then do drugs. but if i felt dd needed drugs i would never with hold that from her.


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