Forms of birth control for young teen girls? - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 42 Old 02-05-2015, 07:50 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Forms of birth control for young teen girls?

I became sexually active at 17 but I realize many teens become active much earlier. Dd is nearly 10 so we have a Few years. But, I always said as soon as she hit 13 she was going on bc, then she could become active anytime she felt was right, be it 14 or 21. If you have a daughter in the age range or thoughts on such which method of be would you use? Pills take daily responsibility and dump chemicals in her. An iud takes it off her mind but is a bit invasive. The semi monthly shots are less to remember and less chemicals. What do you all think?
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#2 of 42 Old 02-05-2015, 11:28 AM
 
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I think that supporting girls' autonomy over their own bodies is incredibly important. For me that starts with empowering them to choose what form of contraception to use -- and when to start using it.

I think the iud is an excellent option for sexually active teens, but if I were a 13-year-old who had no interest in a sexual relationship, I would be horrified if my parent told me I was going to have one inserted.

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#3 of 42 Old 02-05-2015, 12:04 PM
 
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Hormonal birth control pills made me suicidal (depression and anxiety like constant worst PMS ever) when I was 18 so I wouldn't lean toward that option. They also have pretty hefty risks about cancer and blood clots. I'd educate on all the bc options and on what I believe and recommend is the appropriate kind of relationship for sex to even be an option. I'd leave choices up to her but would recommend appropriate use of condoms if she chose to be sexually active and make those available. In addition if she asked for the Pill or shots or whatever hormone method or an IUD then we would give it a try, though I think anything hormonal would need to be a method she could cut short and switch off of at any time for a trial period first, in case of side effects. Also, 13 sounds very young to start a medically invasive bc regimen (and artificial hormones are also invasive to me), I didn't have cycles until I was over 13.5 and the idea of actually having sex yet was pretty far off until I was 15.
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I think when become sexually active and what forms of birth control to use are VERY personal decisions that each woman (however young) needs to make for herself. I provided my DDs with information and access.


I disagree with just putting a girl on BC for many reasons. One of them is that teens need to be using condoms to prevent STDs. I think that skipping over that and focusing solely on pregnancy prevention is a mistake that could have very negative consequences. The message of being put on BC against one's will is "You are too irresponsible to handle BC, so I'm doing it for you." If they believe that message, then they will never use a condom.


Second, this entire stage of life is about autonomy. I don't see my job as ensuring that my kids don't screw up their lives. I see my job as helping them develop the skills to make solid decisions they can live with.


Also, I had an IUD for years, and worked well for me. However, getting it inserted was VERY painful. I've never had a vaginal delivery (long stories) and my well-woman provider said that it was the first IUD that she had inserted for a woman who had never had a vaginal delivery and afterwards, she felt the pain I experienced was related to the fact that my cervix has never dilated. Based on my experience, I wouldn't recommend this form of birth control to any woman who hadn't had kids the old fashioned way. One of the complications of an IUD is possible sterilization; so I wasn't comfortable with this form of BC for myself until was I reasonably sure that I had all the kids I wanted. I was warned that IUDs can complicate STDs because they make such a lovely path from the vagina to the uterus, so the need to be used only in monogamous relationships OR with condoms.


Back to my DDs -- I made sure that both my DDs were aware of all options and their pros and cons (a great book with a chart). I made sure they knew how to access all options (a field trip to the drug stores, which they found mortifying, and being shown their insurance and Rx card). I also bought condoms and put them in the same closet we keep TP.


I also talked to them about my thoughts on how to make decisions about who to have sex with. I recommend using a lot of judgment. I didn't emphasize age at all or emphasize "the first time", but rather gave advice that *I think* would be reasonable for any single person. (obviously, this is a point that people have different opinions about).
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#5 of 42 Old 02-07-2015, 11:32 PM
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Wow, I really can not wrap my head around the idea of requiring bc at a certain age. My dd is 15. She didn't start her periods until she was 13.5 yr old. She would be horrified if I "put" her on bc. However, we have very open discussions about bc, sex, pregnancy, diseases/infections, etc. We have emphasized her being in control of her body. We have also told her that when she needs bc, that we will help her access it if she wants or needs the help.

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#6 of 42 Old 02-08-2015, 05:15 AM
 
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I agree that putting your 13 yo automatically on birth control is inappropriate. At thirteen, I hadn't yet even started my period. I can't imagine how terrible I would have been about remembering to take a daily pill. I love my IUD, but the most recent replacement - when I was years from giving birth - hurt like crazy. If my parents had made me go through that, just so they could rest easier, I'd resent the heck out of them. And I love my iud, but I know women who hated theirs and needed them removed - birth control methods are very personal, and the person using them needs to be freely able to make choices about them. I agree that teenagers need information and access.

That would mean, for me:
- I'd want Plan B in the house, in case of need.
- I'd want the kids to know where to get condoms and how to use them (these are so vital for teens).
- I want to be sure the kids know where to get additional birth control if needed, and that I'll help out with that if asked.
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#7 of 42 Old 02-11-2015, 01:56 PM
 
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Get her the book "Taking Charge of Your Fertility"

I dont like any form of birth control that interferes with hormones or even involves something plastic thing inside of you. Yuck.

I think condoms are better because you have instant access and they also protect from disease (another important consideration) Admittedly, they dont feel as good as a la naturelle, but that also depends, and pleasure is as much in the mind as the body. Also, if a girl is sexually active and in control of her body (as i would raise my daughter to me, in control of her body that is), then when she knows she isnt fertile ( after ovulation-read the book, wait two days to play it safe), then she can forgo the use of condoms in those two weeks leading to her period.

She should know her body and her fertility. I thought i knew mine, but didnt know a whole lot of things until i read this book at 40, when breastfeeding and ttc no 2.

I would love to have had this book when starting out with my new fertility, instead of being fed all the other BS about menstruation is the curse of womanhood, and Gd forbid if you go near a boy you'll get pregnant etc etc.

My parents were not like that Gd bless them, but that was (and i believe still is), the prevailing attitude of society.

I also came of age in the time of aids, so the use of condoms seems a no brainer to me.

Keep her away from the pill. Tell her, her boyfriend can be the one to artificially manipulate his hormones instead. (not)
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Last edited by contactmaya; 02-14-2015 at 01:06 PM. Reason: a word was lacking an 'r', i believe there are a few more, but i cant find them
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#8 of 42 Old 02-11-2015, 02:03 PM
 
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Just wondering if you could legally force a minor to go on birth control....

I remember the time i took a double dose and vomited profusely. Dont do that to you daughter.
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#9 of 42 Old 02-11-2015, 02:09 PM
 
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I have a few different reactions to your post, Contactmaya -

I really think autonomy is important.

I also think it's important to keep in mind that not all relationships are as good as we'd want them to be. I want my daughter (when she reaches that stage) to have access to birth control that requires no cooperation from her partner.

My experiences are this:
When I was in high school, my periods were irregular and hellish. Once every 6-8 weeks, I would spend 2-3 days feeling completely wretched. The cramps were constant and agonizing, I couldn't eat, I wanted to do nothing but sleep. This is a health problem, of a kind that can prevent you from holding a job or staying in school. The pill was, quite literally, a life saver. It got my period under control to the point where I could gain a few pounds, which was evidently what I needed to do in order to not have my reproductive cycles be hellish.

I read Taking Charge of Your Fertility when I was in my twenties. The book places a lot of reliance on your sleeping situation being basically the same night after night - about the same time, about the same ambient temperatures. I used the method for months, and then realized that I had excellent graphs showing which nights my cat slept in my bed, and which mornings my husband got up early. This didn't help me figure out anything about when I ovulated.

More recently, having an IUD facilitated my chemotherapy, and my participation in research studies concerning new treatments for my cancer. I have benefited a lot from those things, and I am glad I had the piece of plastic that made them more possible.

My overall takeaway, and the one I am applying to my own kids is: how to handle contraception is a personal choice, one that's best made by each individual, considering their own needs and circumstances. I do not know precisely what my daughter's needs and circumstances will be, and I have even less information about other people's daughters, but I think young people are best served when adults advising them don't begin by removing most of the options from consideration.
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#10 of 42 Old 02-11-2015, 02:10 PM
 
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I think condoms are better because you have instant access and they also protect from disease (another important consideration) Admittedly, they dont feel as good as a la naturelle, but that also depends, and pleasure is as much in the mind as the body. Also, if a girl is sexually active and in control of her body (as i would raise my daughter to me, in control of her body that is), then when she knows she isnt fertile ( after ovulation-read the book, wait two days to play it safe), then she can forgo the use of condoms in those two weeks leading to her period.
I don't understand this advice: it seems to contradict itself. You say that condoms are better because of the disease protection, but then you suggest going without during the less fertile part of the cycle.

I think that in a motivated responsible teen couple (with the emphasis on couple, meaning both partners need to buy in) natural fertility control can provide enough additional protection from pregnancy for condoms to be sufficient. But I think that unless both parties are highly committed to each other and willing to undergo routine STI testing, dispensing with condoms is ill-advised.

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#11 of 42 Old 02-11-2015, 05:34 PM
 
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I dont like any form of birth control that interferes with hormones or even involves something plastic thing inside of you. Yuck.


In my relationship with my daughters, this isn't about what I think is yucky, but rather making sure they know ALL their options and have a safe space to make their own choices. I don't think that a negative attitude toward any method is more helpful to a teen than being forced. Either way, we are taking away their power to make their own choices.

I think condoms are better because you have instant access and they also protect from disease (another important consideration) Admittedly, they dont feel as good as a la naturelle, but that also depends, and pleasure is as much in the mind as the body. Also, if a girl is sexually active and in control of her body (as i would raise my daughter to me, in control of her body that is), then when she knows she isnt fertile ( after ovulation-read the book, wait two days to play it safe), then she can forgo the use of condoms in those two weeks leading to her period.



My advice to my kids is to ALWAYS use a condom because it helps to protect against STDs.


I saw a chart once that showed how regular woman's cycles are at different ages - from 12 through 60. It looked like a bell curve. Both younger and older women *tend* to be less regular than women in the middle. I agree that understanding how fertility works is good information, but I don't think that it is something that a teen should be basing decisions on, especially when those decisions could alter the entire course of their life.


Keep her away from the pill. Tell her, her boyfriend can be the one to artificially manipulate his hormones instead. (not)






I think that telling girls things like this is a way to ensure that *if* they decide that the pill is the best option for them, you will never know about it. I also think that hiding birthcontrol pills would make it harder to take them consistently.


And just a side note, I think that the more natural family living is shoved down a teens throat, the less likely they will be to chose those options when they do, finally, get a say in their life. It becomes more about who has power and who has control than really learning to weight pros and cons and make thoughtful decisions.

but everything has pros and cons  shrug.gif

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Regarding TCOYF, it's got great info to understand what's going on it one's body even if you aren't relying on it for FAM/NFP. The STD issue is why I said condoms first, appropriately used every time the whole time, add beyond that any other means she'd like such as trying hormonal BC. With this info you could choose to always use condoms plus not have sex while you seem more fertile (even without temps once you know what to look for it gets clear when your estrogen is up). You can notice when you ovulate and count the days til AF, so you'll be ready for any mood swings and the onset of the bleeding, even if your cycle is irregular. I think I saw there's a version of the same out there for teens..checking, it's called Cycle Savvy.
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#13 of 42 Old 02-12-2015, 06:38 AM
 
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there are actually a bunch of apps that help track the cycle and ovulation and predict the next one.

the timing - to each their own. some kids are ready earlier than others. surely one is not going to bring up bc with their child if they havent even started puberty.

where do i research about this? the best sources? the internet - links? books? planned parenthood?

condoms are a no brainer. however its important to remind sometimes when condoms are not super necessary (disease control more than bc). esp. for a monogamous couple who are the first for each other. though might be the easiest and simplist method of bc.

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I'd buy a stash of condoms and make sure she knows where they are.


This reminds me....I guess I need to start having these kinds of conversations with my 9YO. Any book recommendations that are age appropriate (more puberty based)?


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his reminds me....I guess I need to start having these kinds of conversations with my 9YO. Any book recommendations that are age appropriate (more puberty based)?
The Care and Keeping of You 2 The Care and Keeping of You 2
(American Girl book). Hands-down. Great book. Exactly what you're looking for, I'll bet.

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#16 of 42 Old 02-13-2015, 11:06 PM
 
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Second, this entire stage of life is about autonomy. I don't see my job as ensuring that my kids don't screw up their lives. I see my job as helping them develop the skills to make solid decisions they can live with.

Yes to that

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#17 of 42 Old 02-14-2015, 12:50 PM
 
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I think that telling girls things like this is a way to ensure that *if* they decide that the pill is the best option for them, you will never know about it. I also think that hiding birthcontrol pills would make it harder to take them consistently.


And just a side note, I think that the more natural family living is shoved down a teens throat, the less likely they will be to chose those options when they do, finally, get a say in their life. It becomes more about who has power and who has control than really learning to weight pros and cons and make thoughtful decisions.
I dont disagree with anything you say. I only disagree with your inference that expressing one's own feeling/philosophical outlook/medical opinion on a type of birth control, is the same as forcing your child to do something, or denying them important information.
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#18 of 42 Old 02-14-2015, 12:57 PM
 
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I don't understand this advice: it seems to contradict itself. You say that condoms are better because of the disease protection, but then you suggest going without during the less fertile part of the cycle.


I see where what I said could be construed as confusing.
I meant in a situation where disease was no longer an issue, where trust had been established. Its debatable at what point in a relationship an adult can make that decision, and even more debatable whether you trust you daughter to make that decision. I was was making a comment about a range of options.


I think that in a motivated responsible teen couple (with the emphasis on couple, meaning both partners need to buy in) natural fertility control can provide enough additional protection from pregnancy for condoms to be sufficient. But I think that unless both parties are highly committed to each other and willing to undergo routine STI testing, dispensing with condoms is ill-advised.

Ageed, although there is no guarantee either way.

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#19 of 42 Old 02-14-2015, 01:05 PM
 
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I have a few different reactions to your post, Contactmaya -

I really think autonomy is important.

I also think it's important to keep in mind that not all relationships are as good as we'd want them to be. I want my daughter (when she reaches that stage) to have access to birth control that requires no cooperation from her partner.

My experiences are this:
When I was in high school, my periods were irregular and hellish. Once every 6-8 weeks, I would spend 2-3 days feeling completely wretched. The cramps were constant and agonizing, I couldn't eat, I wanted to do nothing but sleep. This is a health problem, of a kind that can prevent you from holding a job or staying in school. The pill was, quite literally, a life saver. It got my period under control to the point where I could gain a few pounds, which was evidently what I needed to do in order to not have my reproductive cycles be hellish.

I read Taking Charge of Your Fertility when I was in my twenties. The book places a lot of reliance on your sleeping situation being basically the same night after night - about the same time, about the same ambient temperatures. I used the method for months, and then realized that I had excellent graphs showing which nights my cat slept in my bed, and which mornings my husband got up early. This didn't help me figure out anything about when I ovulated.

More recently, having an IUD facilitated my chemotherapy, and my participation in research studies concerning new treatments for my cancer. I have benefited a lot from those things, and I am glad I had the piece of plastic that made them more possible.

My overall takeaway, and the one I am applying to my own kids is: how to handle contraception is a personal choice, one that's best made by each individual, considering their own needs and circumstances. I do not know precisely what my daughter's needs and circumstances will be, and I have even less information about other people's daughters, but I think young people are best served when adults advising them don't begin by removing most of the options from consideration.
I agree it is a personal decision. I remember my friend going on the pill for the same reasons as you.

Its also true that the TCOYF does depend on regular keep schedules etc, but the information in the book is something for every girl to know imo. The temperature taking is only part of it.

Having the kind of awareness of one's own body that comes from reading this book is a priceless gift for any young woman. I would give it to my daughter regardless of whether she was sexually active.

Great idea about stacking some condoms in some neutral hiding place...
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#20 of 42 Old 02-14-2015, 03:36 PM
 
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Another downside of hormonal birth control is that for a lot of people (including me!) it dramatically reduces libido. Well, maybe some people DO want that for their teens, but I had a number of friends who went on the pill young (to regulate periods) and didn't develop any significant interest in sex until they went off it post-college. I would prefer my kid's sexuality to develop in its own time without the interference of artificial hormones, if possible.
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#21 of 42 Old 02-14-2015, 10:07 PM
 
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Keep her away from the pill. Tell her, her boyfriend can be the one to artificially manipulate his hormones instead. (not)
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I dont disagree with anything you say. I only disagree with your inference that expressing one's own feeling/philosophical outlook/medical opinion on a type of birth control, is the same as forcing your child to do something, or denying them important information.


I can't put these two quotes together in a logical way. If a parent is "keeping their daughter away from the pill," then they are doing a lot more than expressing their opinion.




For me personal, I work at clarifying when I am providing my teens with information, and when I am sharing my opinion with them. For me, this is an important distinction even though I know a lot of parents who don't feel this way. Many parents feel that their opinions are Truths that their children should live by (and I get the feeling that you fall into that camp).


I do share my opinion with my kids, and I explain my reasons why, but I work at doing so in such a way that I create a safe space for my teens to develop their own, possibly different opinion.

but everything has pros and cons  shrug.gif

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#22 of 42 Old 02-16-2015, 03:47 PM
 
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I can't put these two quotes together in a logical way. If a parent is "keeping their daughter away from the pill," then they are doing a lot more than expressing their opinion.



I guess it was my manner of expression.
But now that you mention it, i am repulsed to the core of my being by the idea of putting hormones in one's body, and the havoc it wreaks, first and foremost, not even getting to know one's body from such a young age, all for the sake of sex. Nope. I dont like it, and i would be mortified to see my daughter do that to herself. Its a whole different story if you are taking the pill for medical reasons, and for some women, it has a positive health impact as in the case of one PP above.

The thing i dislike about the pill most, is that it purported to give women freedom over their sexuality, when all it did was wreak havoc with our health. There are other ways to own your body. I dont think manipulating your body with hormones is freedom. It feels more like a way to once again change our bodies to suit men.

Having said that, am i, as a mother, morally able to deny such a thing to my daughter? Anymore than am i able to force her to take it? Its her body, and her decision.


Would i share that opinion with my daughter? By the the time she meets the guy she wants to have sex with, she will know the TCOYF by heart, and probably wouldnt even occur to her to put crap into her body.

I am a feminist that finds the pill repulsive. But as a feminist, i also believe in bodily autonomy.





For me personal, I work at clarifying when I am providing my teens with information, and when I am sharing my opinion with them. For me, this is an important distinction even though I know a lot of parents who don't feel this way. Many parents feel that their opinions are Truths that their children should live by (and I get the feeling that you fall into that camp).


I do share my opinion with my kids, and I explain my reasons why, but I work at doing so in such a way that I create a safe space for my teens to develop their own, possibly different opinion.

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to the OP:


I don't think its unreasonable to be gathering information at this age so you can have ongoing conversations with your DD so that you are both prepared as she gets older.


I highly suggest you ask your own, trusted gyn next time you are there-they will be happy to tell you what options they do and don't recommend for teens (and i'd be shocked if an IUD or TFP would be among them--neither are really an appropriate recommendation for a young teen, even in unusual circumstances).


whatever your daughter ends up deciding to use, the use of condoms each and every time is a point that should be driven home, for both backup protection and disease protection--assuming monogamy in a teenager, even the "nicest" one, is like saying you can tell if someone is "clean" just by looking at them---its laughable at best, down right dangerous at worst.


I very much admire you for not having your head in the sand and trying to prepare for the eventual reality.


hope you found the answers you were looking for.
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#24 of 42 Old 02-17-2015, 10:04 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ksc425 View Post
i'd be shocked if an IUD or TFP would be among them--neither are really an appropriate recommendation for a young teen, even in unusual circumstances
I'm not sure what TFP is, but both the American Congress of Obstetricians & Gynecologists and the American Academy of Pediatricians consider IUDs to be first-line contraceptives for teens, ahead of oral contraceptives, patches, and rings. No unusual circumstances required.

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#25 of 42 Old 12-28-2015, 06:18 PM
 
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If your young Teen's are going use Condoms make shore the know how use them and to use the right size. Not be wird but you teen Boys have smaller Penis then grown older teen's/Men make shore teens use the right size Condoms

http://jezebel.com/5541019/mini-cond...ses-just-right

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#26 of 42 Old 01-17-2016, 05:27 PM
 
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Originally Posted by KSLaura View Post
I'd buy a stash of condoms and make sure she knows where they are.


This reminds me....I guess I need to start having these kinds of conversations with my 9YO. Any book recommendations that are age appropriate (more puberty based)?
These are my favorite because of their body-positive approach. I also appreciate the pictures for kids who are curious and know how to google search. I'd rather them see the pictures in these books than looking on the internet in private.

"It's Not the Stork!: A Book About Girls, Boys, Babies, Bodies, Families and Friends" for ages 4 and up

"It's So Amazing!: A Book about Eggs, Sperm, Birth, Babies, and Families" for ages 7 and up

"It's Perfectly Normal: Changing Bodies, Growing Up, Sex, and Sexual Health" for ages 10 and up.
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#27 of 42 Old 01-17-2016, 05:44 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Tygrrkttn View Post
I became sexually active at 17 but I realize many teens become active much earlier. Dd is nearly 10 so we have a Few years. But, I always said as soon as she hit 13 she was going on bc, then she could become active anytime she felt was right, be it 14 or 21. If you have a daughter in the age range or thoughts on such which method of be would you use? Pills take daily responsibility and dump chemicals in her. An iud takes it off her mind but is a bit invasive. The semi monthly shots are less to remember and less chemicals. What do you all think?
I would most recommend the Birth Control Implant (Implanon and Nexplanon), due to its high effectiveness. An implant is administered with a syringe that goes just beneath the skin in the arm, so less invasive than an IUD.
I can't add links yet, so I attached an image from the CDC website about effective rates. I like to pay attention to the failure percentage rates, "The percentages indicate the number out of every 100 women who experienced an unintended pregnancy within the first year of typical use of each contraceptive method."

With condoms, 18 out of 100 women experienced an unintended pregnancy.
With the implant, 0.05 out of 100 women experienced an unintended pregnancy. (more effective than sterilization.)

When my 14 year old sister asked for birth control, I helped her get the implant. I taught her that condoms are only for preventing some STI's, not reliable birth control.
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#28 of 42 Old 01-27-2016, 03:11 PM
 
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I'm posting mainly to second Taincurt's recommendation of It's Perfectly Normal. We picked up this book at a yard sale when our son was 9 3/4. I skimmed it then and was very impressed at the variety of topics it covers and the thorough, positive approach. My son said he read the book at the time but didn't have many questions. Just before turning 11, he became interested in puberty again because of some discussion while boys were changing for swimming, and at that point he went over the book with me and at another time with his dad and asked a bunch of questions. I was impressed with how the book had gotten it into his head that he would need to know all about condoms and be prepared to use them. Planning ahead for this sort of thing was very important for me; I learned a lot about contraceptives starting around 11 so that I felt able to make informed decisions when I was 16 and it was rather suddenly relevant.

I started with spermicide ***as a supplement to*** condoms provided by my boyfriend. Spermicide by itself is not very effective, but it increases effectiveness of a condom. After a couple of years, I got a cervical cap, which I loved. I still considered it a backup method to be used with condoms, until I was out of college and in a stable relationship so that pregnancy wouldn't have been a disaster, and then I relied on the cap alone. Unfortunately, that cap is no longer made, and I didn't like either the cap currently on the market or the diaphragm. My experience with the pill at age 25 was horrible, so I still think barrier methods are preferable, but my daughter and I will need to do some research about what's available when she's old enough for it.

Fertility Awareness is a fabulous skill that would be taught to both sexes in all schools in about 8th grade if I were in charge--but it's not suitable as the ONLY means of pregnancy prevention for teens because their cycles are less reliable. Temperature charting never worked for me personally, but the info about breast changes and cervical fluid that I picked up from a women's health book published by Ms. magazine (which my mom had) made me aware of when I was ovulating by the time I was 14, which was handy since it only happened 3 times a year for me and detecting it let me know when to expect my period. As a teenager I simply never had intercourse when I knew I was fertile, not with any amount of contraception. So it was an additional backup method.

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#29 of 42 Old 01-27-2016, 09:58 PM
 
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Bc pill and condoms. Always worked for me and I've been having sex since I was 15 years old. My mom was mortified but saw the common sense in it. I didn't give her grandchildren until after I'd been married for several years.
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#30 of 42 Old 01-29-2016, 05:35 AM
 
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If your talking about the Depo-Provera shot. Please don't do that until you look thoroughly into it. There are possible side effects such as weight gain and missed periods, etc.

Condoms I think are important. Others mentioned STDs. I think the teens today have always known about HIV and it seems far off to them or now it's not a death sentence. So you might want to make sure that she knows all of that and if you stay close to talking with her she may feel more comfortable coming to you when she needs to. But you just need to make sure she talks to you about everyday things in her life and feels comfortable and close to you so that you are who she comes to.
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