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Crisis, again

2K views 12 replies 6 participants last post by  dharma.wheel 
#1 ·
Hi mdc mamas, I am asking for your advice and ideas.

I have a teen daughter who will not be honest with me, will not respect the house rules, engages in risky behaviors with harmful friends, and has manipulated & lied our family into a dhs investigation (completely unfounded, in fact I was offered employment by them, but still we went thru months of hell). She has shown she is willing to put others in harm's way to get her way (i.e., to engage in risky behaviors w the wrong friends)

Yes, I am aware that I have posted advice to other parents & have revealed that I have training & experience in this area... And I understand that just as a doctor would not amputate his own leg simply bc he has the training to do so, there is a time to be honest & humble enough to admit you need outside help. We do. I feel those I know in the field are also too close to my family to be the best resource.

I have tried numerous ideas that I felt would help, but in the end you can't force someone to want to try. Due to the nature of her betrayal she has cut off much of the help that would normally be available to us.

You know they say, the carpenter's door is always broken & the cobbler's children have no shoes...

I am simply asking for encouragement & any creative ideas I may have overlooked, especially from those who have been there. tia :crying:
 
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#2 ·
Hi Tia, sorry this response is late in coming. This sounds truly heartbreaking and I'm sure you've suffered a lot of anguish about it. I'm not sure what sorts of things have already been tried so I apologize if these suggestions are already water under the bridge.

I am a big fan of family therapy, especially for those of us who are in the field, but can have blinders on about our own role in maintaining or sustaining patterns. Can you find a skilled family therapist and go in as a family in a non-blaming way to figure stuff out together? Is there a place or way that she has learned a dishonest style of communicating with you? What was your relationship like before this phase began? (refer me to earlier posts if you'd like!) Does it feel salvageable?

That said, I would be concerned, as I'm sure you are, about some sort of addiction issue, IF this behavior is really out of sorts for her (very inconsistent with her personality). If you are in the U.S. there should be some sort of screening for drug and alcohol and also treatment.

I wondered what sorts of privileges she has in the family. For example, does she have use of a car, does she have use of money for certain things, is she working herself? Not in a punitive way,but in a 'natural consequences' manner, have you worked with the curtailment of some of the privileges she enjoys? Example, "in order to let you use my car I have to know 100% that I can trust you are going where you say you are going." "To use my car you have to be completely substance free; if you can't assure me, there is a clinic where we can go to find out." They are still a family member, so you have to let her know that to be a part of 'this' family, there are certain expectations based on mutual respect.

I know it feels crazy during adolescence (I've been thru 2 of them so far) but you can still set limits if the behavior is outside the healthy values of your family, and sometimes teens thank you later (sometimes much later) for reigning them in. Or sometimes they don't but that shouldn't change things.

I know how difficult this is. It feels like a crazy maze.
 
#3 ·
Thanks, Lauren. I appreciate all suggestions. We have been in family therapy with a great couple who share our family values... She says what everyone wants to hear in sessions then goes on lying about her actual activities. Then when confronted again, fakes repentance, blame shifts, or whatever tactic to avoid being real, then goes on doing anything she likes.

I have restricted privileges just as you suggested bc yes, she is not responsible enough to say, use my car, right now. It feels like there is little else to restrict bc she has no desire to really work on getting privileges back-- she just gets her way by doing as she pleases & lying abt it. For example, I first put a parental app on her phone she was using inappropriately (we had discussed at length many times the appropriate use of the phone & the reasons), so she was caught misbehaving and lying via the app. I turned off the phone, she stole her brothers old phone. Idk where this is coming from other than the fairly common "my parents are so strict & overprotective" thing. But this is way over the top. She won't say what is the source of the betrayals & disrespect.

This is my 3rd teen-- I had a rough time w one, but he ultimately thanked me for how he was raised. The other had normal ups & downs but never went off the hook like this one.

Our counselor has even said, regardless of the source (which you seem uncomfortable sharing about), your negative feelings do NOT justify your misbehavior. When you feel angry, you have a right to your feelings, but you do not have a right to lie to or about your family!

No real help. No real change. Considering a children's home, but I know from experience that most families never completely recover after that. I just feel it may be the least of the evils...
 
#5 ·
is there a relative or close family friend

She could live with for awhile?

She sounds like someone who may be depressed, and/or has not found a passion to keep her from aimless floundering.

I'm sorry, it's hard when your own kids become abusive/manipulative and can't seem to serve their own interest well.

Some people engage in self destructive behaviour as a cry for help, on the other hand may be she has legitimate mental health issues?
 
#7 ·
First, thank you mamas for your replies-- it helps so much just feeling that I can discuss this openly here.

I have considered family members. I am still considering. Much of my family is so poorly functioning, that I could realistically expect her to be abused in their care. Two adult family members do not abuse their own children, but both have allowed registered sex offenders to be around their children (with supervision) & I am not ok with that for my children. Understatement. Imo they do not exhibit appropriate boundaries around child safety issues. The others actively abuse children (by anyone's definition of abuse). There is a reason we moved states away. I don't think I can justify sending her into a probable abuse situation, even to keep her from abusing others. This is why residential care keeps springing to mind. It may act as the safer extended family that I don't have...?

She's 15 yo.

I'm thinking non-family members, too. A couple I used to work with & whom I trust retired after decades of house parenting... But their g'son was recently placed in residential care bc they chose to remain g'parents & not establish a "house parent" role w him. Idk what the family dynamics would look like for them if they agreed to keep my daughter for a time... I'm sure their children & g'children would resent it & feel betrayed. ???
 
#8 ·
She is not exhibiting signs of depression. She simply seems to feel so entitled and so self - important, that she is ok with hurting & harming others to get her way. Ppl around her are becoming depressive bc she is ok w hurting them & they love her & we are all losing hope that there is a positive solution for us all.

She does not want help or intervention or even counseling. She attends family therapy only bc it is mandatory for continued residence in my home. She participates as little and as shallowly as possible. She has stated that the "help" she sought earlier was a ruse to (as she imagined) allow her to move in w her bff, have no rules, and mess around w her boyfriends without supervision or family rules. And she scoffs that I did not catch on sooner.
 
#9 ·
& I agree mumto1 that a short, structured time away is probably beneficial. I'm just not sure how we can accomplish it best. I'm not sure which option is going to lead to the best outcome for her future. The teen years are short, but their impact on life can last forever & I feel this decision may be the most critical I have ever made for her. I don't want to lose her & I don't want her to grow up thinking she can hurt others to get what she wants.
 
#10 ·
A skilled family counselor will be able to see that DD is not participating and should not let this happen. The counselor should have sessions with the family, some with only you, some with only DD etc. DD should not be the 'topic' of the sessions but the sessions should be about changes in the family structure, functioning ect.

Is it possible the counselor (or her methods) isn't a good fit for either you or DD?

While I have not been there to the extent you are. My bubbly, happy, innocent child turned 16 and recently acquired such a mouth, my ears have not recovered yet. I am working on restructuring some things around here, but you can't turn a steamship with a tugboat- ya know?
 
#11 ·
You are right, the counsellors do acknowledge what is and is not working for both of us & have had frank discussions re the consequences for our family if things do not change incl what changes everyone desires.

I am not sure how a counselor would disallow non- or poor participation... Since the premise of trust is that no one can really make a behavior decision for another & change must be by choice...? They've been clear on it not working if everyone doesn't work at it, etc. & the next steps available if nothing changes or changes for the worse.

I think they are the best fit among the available options. I didn't mention the progress we have made w them... Prolly bc I am really stressed by what's wrong (& that is another good reminder- not to forget the positive)

Yes! That is how I feel! Like trying to turn around a steamship w a tugboat! Hugs to you- I knew it wouldn't be easy, but this I never anticipated...
 
#12 ·
I know you probably already did this, but just in case. Have you restricted her computer use? No wifi/internet, no texting, etc? Make her earn the access?

I read your example of her stealing her brother's old phone. How did she connect it to start using it? And what did you do once you caught her? Is she still limited from phone use?

15 is an impossible age. There are no good solutions when kids get out of control.

One thing caught my eye - you didn't mention chores. What chores does she have, and how is she doing with them?
 
#13 ·
Mum4vr, you sound very experienced and insightful regarding you 15 yr old daughter's behavior and problems, so I feel rather lame putting in a word. I just read a ton of articles about adolescent psychology, problem behavior, and so forth, to try to get a grip.

First, it sounds from your post that your daughter had a happy and healthy childhood and attachment to you? Is that so? Could her problems stem from an attachment/sense of abandonment issue? Such feelings have a sneaky way of getting to kids and shaping their perceptions.

Could you talk her into seeing an MD psychiatrist or Ph.D. psychologist who specializes in child and adolescent psychology? The right person could do a world of good as he or she works privately, one on one, with your DD. From what you write, your DD is the problem, not the family. Family therapy does not sound like the right choice, especially given the fact that it is so easy for her to hide how damaged she is and how destructive her behavior is.

I would keep her home. Sending her somewhere is an abandonment. I'm not there to see how bad it is, but I would want to send an "unconditional love" message (along with "shape up fast").How are her grades and school attendance? Would she see the school psychologist? As I read I imagined she was 18 yrs old; 15 is startling young, but the plus side is that with the right tools and intervention, hopefully she can reverse course.
 
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