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She is driving me nuts!!

2K views 41 replies 20 participants last post by  kathywiehl 
#1 ·
My 10 year old daughter is making me insane and I seriously need some guidance. Maybe some of you more experienced moms can help.

I'll just tell you about this morning as an example of how things have been lately...

Today at 6 am I go to her room to wake her up for school and she gets up, tells me she's awake and "Would you please leave now!!!" So I go downstairs, make her a bowl of cereal, nurse the baby, and get all ready to take her to the bus stop.

10 minutes before we are supposed to walk out the door, I go to her room and she's back in bed- she rushes around to get ready then demands that I find some batteries for her walkman. I tell her we don't have time, that we just need to leave immediately, and she starts crying "I hate my bus driver, I hate you, I hate school, I have the worst life ever!!" " Please get me the batteries, I need the batteries, wah wah wah" "You're so mean, can't you just let me miss the bus and drive me??" "You are so mean, you don't love me and I don't love you!!" The whole time she's crying and screaming like a baby and it's really grating on my nerves.

So, since she failed to get out of bed today, her bedtime is now going to be 1/2 hour earlier (since she obviously didn't get enough sleep) and since she was so disrespectful to me, she is grounded to her room for the evening. She can come out to have dinner, but other than that, she's in her room, no tv and the room must be cleaned and her laundry put away while she's there. The cleaning room and laundry part would have been part of the plan today anyway.

Yesterday was the same way- she whined about stupid crap all day yesterday-what I was making for lunch, not being able to use the computer, not being able to go to the mall or McDonalds, etc. Every day she is like this and every day I start of by being so sweet to her, but the minute she finds out we aren't doing exactly what she wants to do, she gets really nasty and rude.

A few days ago, I picked her up at the bus stop and told her that we will be going to return a movie. She asked if we could rent another one, then when I said no, she flew off the handle- "I have no fun in my life, you don't love me, my life is boring, I hate just doing my homework, bla bla bla" This was during the whole drive to the store and back.

Am I not dealing with her correctly? Does she have ADD? Is this normal for a 10 year old? She is in full swing puberty right now with breasts, pubic hair, the whole works, and I know she is moody, but she treats me like garbage and doesn't care one bit about anyone else, as long as she gets her way.

Ugh, sorry for the long post, I just needed to get this out and I desperately need some advice on dealing with her.

Part of me is saying not to put up with any more of her attitude and make sure she has consequences every time she mouths off, but the other part of me is worried that it will take a month of constant discipline and I feel bad about taking her priveleges away over and over again.
 
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#2 ·
I was exactly the same way. Only I was 12, I started puberty late. My cousins were the same when they were around 11. I think it's normal for girls to be like that early in puberty.
I wouldn't worry to much, it's just normal.

My mum handled it by just starring at me like she would kill me in the next moment, then say something like "Fine. Ok. get out of the room, stay in your room, I don't wanna see you and I don't want to talk to you."
Trust me, that hurts like hell.
So when she went that way I would run to my dad, tell him everything, that i was mad and that she was unfair and a bitch etc. etc. By the time I was finished with telling dad what had happened I had already forgotten what I was mad about....
:LOL

So then I went back to her, said sorry a million times and that I loved her and din't even know what I was mad about and in the end she would go "Ok, fine, I got it. It's ok. Would you just stop repeating yourself? I understood that your sorry. I love you, Ok?"
It always went that way.

By the time I was 14 I stopped exploding about little things.
I think it's a phase only girls have. I never heard about boys going that way.
But your daughter will outgrow it and untill then you have to find a way to handle it.

I'm scared. In like... 10 years I have two girls in that phase. uhhhh....scary thought...
 
#3 ·
Sounds exactly like my 10 yo DD. Except without the crying. She never was a crier though. Recently she's gone from very sweet natured to very moody and tempermental. My brother can't say anything to her without her flying into a rage and she'll start throwing things at him. Or she gets a snotty attitude with me.

I figure it's just raging puberty hormones and I'll generally shrug it off if I can tell she's just being grouchy to be grouchy. If she gets really snotty I'll tell her that it's very hurtful when she talks to me that way. That usually pulls her up short. No advice for ya, just some commiseration.
 
#5 ·
First of all- let me just say that the comment " So there is no GD for 10 year olds?" doesn't help. That doesn't give me any advice- it just makes me feel worse- Thanks alot!

Penelope, I know you were kind enough to offer some words of advice and I thank you for that, but there was no reason for the next poster to quote you just to criticize with no words of wisdom. That's just rotten.

Secondly, I do talk to her with kindness and love every single day. I try to spend as much quality time with her that I can. We take her pretty much wherever she wants to go. On the weekends, when dh and I are trying to decide on a place to take the family for the day, she is included in that decision. We give her pretty much whatever she wants as long as it's reasonable. The minute she asks for something that's not reasonable, I take the time to explain why it's not possible and she just throws a huge fit over everything!
 
#6 ·
I feel like I could have written your post Sunday.
My 10 almost 11 yo flew off the handle because I wouldn't write her name on her school supplies for her. It was pretty easy to understand that she was anxious about starting a new school year, but the storm still has to build and ebb before any meaningful discussion can occur.

What works best for me is to acknowlege what she is feeling and saying, but to stay calm and a bit detached, really. We have also had discussions about how I would like her to go to her room when she needs to gain control over how she is expressing herself. I have also asked and she agrees that when I ask her to go to bed, she needs to go to bed, since lack of sleep is a trigger for her. Does it always work, of course not, but it is better. She will respond when I remind her of what we have talked about and ask her to trust that I know what is best for her. Most of the time, anyway!

I would like to be able to handle her without sending her to her room but, quite frankly, I have other kids to think about. I do not think my 6 yo needs to hear how his sister wishes he was never born, no matter how valid a feeling that is for HER. I do make it a priority to go in and talk with her as soon as possible. I know she frightens herself with how far she goes in her rage, and I spend a lot of time assuring her that even if I do not like her behavior, I do and will always love her. We also talk about whatever triggered the outburst, and any other issues I think are a factor. There are natural consequences to her actions that I employ as well. If she goes off on me after a sleepover, then I limit sleepovers because she did not get enough sleep. If I spend time listening to her argue with me, then we don't have time to go to the store for new shoes. 'Sorry, your choice.'

The most difficult part for me is my husband. Her outbursts always bring forth his most authoritarian manner, which makes things worse for everyone. I end up protecting her and undermining him (his words) and completely caught in the middle. When they start in together, I swear they would keep going until she had nothing left in her room except a mattress and she would be grounded until she was 18. But he is catching on and is refusing to be sucked into her drama as well.

So we are surviving. I don't think I am doing the best a parent could, I don't know how GD it is or what permanent damage I have caused that will require therapy down the road. But I am trying with a loving heart and I think she knows that. And it is getting better, fewer outbursts, shorter duration. Things were worse with the new baby, better now. I have heard mixed stories about whether it will get better or worse as she gets older. Who knows, really?

I don't know if this was really helpful for you, except that you aren't the only mom going insane with your daughter! I think though, that it is important to remember that she probably isn't doing this on purpose with malicious intent. That thought gets me through a lot with all my kids, 3 mo to 10 years!

Kathy, just wanted to add that I was writing my post when you posted your reply and just had a chance to read it. I hope you get some more helpful replies!
 
#7 ·
yeah i suck. sorry it made you feel bad. i thought it would help knowing that someone was seconding the idea that kids, even pre-teens, still need to be listened to. i could have quoted her whole post, because i agreed w/ all of it, but wouldn't that have been redundant?

i went through a very similar phase at 10 ~ that was also around the time i first attempted suicide. i wanted more than anything for my parents, or at least my mom, to sit down with me and actually listen to why i hated school, why i didn't want to get up in the morning, why i didn't want to do my homework, why i was constantly complaigning that i had "nothing to wear."

if they had bothered to ask, and actually listen, i would have gladly told them that i was being teased and tormented at school ~ not just by bullies but by teachers as well... that i didn't feel challenged by my schoolwork... that i felt my life and works lacked meaning... that i believed i was fat and ugly, that others kids constantly told me that, and that wearing ill-fitting out-of-date clothing wasn't helping... and so on.

the OP didn't sound very understanding or compassionate to me ~ phrases like

wah wah wah
like a baby
stupid crap

really stood out. this isn't stupid crap to her.

and maybe she's acting "like a baby" because you're still treating her like one ~ about the issue with waking up, why not leave it up to her? i.e., give her an alarm clock and let her know it's time to get up when the alarm goes off, and if she doesn't, then she'll have to cut corners getting ready for school (i.e., no batteries). maybe she needs a little more responsibility. or maybe it's more that she's craving attention ~ you said you took time to nurse your baby. the new (?) little one may be bringing stress into her life.

also, you said, "I take the time to explain why it's not possible and she just throws a huge fit over everything!" at her age, maybe she doesn't need a full explanation ~ try keeping it short, simple, and to the point.

most important:

LISTEN. Don't argue or try to fix *everything.* Just listen.

even if she doesn't listen to you. take the time to face her, give her your undivided attention, and hear her out.
 
#8 ·
I understand and have compassion for your situation. I am going through similar trials with my 9 yo DS (whoever said boys don't have similar phases is incorrect). Combined with a ds#2 (age 4) who gets endless pleasure from neddling his brother to get attention from him, evening are not a lot of fun at our house. It got so bad that I felt my anger rising beyond what is reasonable and had to put myself in timeout last night. Went and sat on the front porch for 5 minutes with the roof dripping rain on me with my glass of juice and just breathed.

When I calmed down, I sat at the table and looked ds#1 in the eyes and said "What do you need?" He started to go off on he's bored, there is nothing to do, his brother is bugging him, etc. etc. And I again said "What do you need?" The answer, to play something with him. So we sat and talked and played a game for 10 minutes, and he was fine again (for a little while anyway). He basically just needed me to listen to him with undivided attention and be calm. And I am the first to admit that that is my challenge, and always has been.
 
#9 ·
My 13 year old dd is the same way, one week out of the month. Once I figured out there was a pattern to it it was a lot easier to cope/deal with. The poor kid has PMS in a big fat nasty way.

When she is like this and getting out of control, I ask her if she would like to talk about it or go to her room, calm down, pull herself together and then we can talk.

Nothing gets accomplished if people (no matter what their age) are freeking out!!!.

We established this method after she had calmed down after a particularly horrible breakdown.
 
#10 ·
I agree with klothos.

I think it's hard to act compassionately if you're framing the situation as you did. I started reading and got to the part where she started going off about how the bus driver was mean and all, and thought, "Wow, what an unhappy kid." And that's where I would have gone with it - talk about how miserable she sounds, get some details, solve the problem. Being late for school sounds like a better option than sending her off sobbing and miserable.

I do think hormones play a big role, and when you add hunger and not enough sleep it can be really, really hard. Ten was when it started with Rain, all these huge intense feelings that seemed to come out of nowhere, and it took a while for her to get that just because you feel awful doesn't mean that everything in your life is truly so sucky -sometimes it's just your own body making you feel like sobbing, but that's harder to grasp.

So, I'd try to get out of the punishment mindset and try to be on her side. Forget grounding her and stuff, talk to her about puberty and how those changes can make her feel, and about talking to people respectfully even when you feel like crap, and ask her if there's a better way for you to wake her up, or would an alarm clock be better? Work with her. Think of how you would treat her if she had a chronic illness that made her feel like crap - that helped me, to think of this all as something outside of my kid that she was struggling to deal with.

And she did get a handle on it, FWIW. Somewhat, anyway. But it is really a hard time...

Dar
 
#11 ·
Hi, You guys have given some very good advice on this issue so I just wanted to ask if you have any suggestions for me?
My ldaughter is doing the exact same things all of you have described, except trying to kill herself but my problem is a little harder because my daughter is only 3. Can anybody help me? before I go completely
 
#13 ·
My DD is 11, and we've been going through the drama queen stuff for a couple of years now. (See the "I hate you! thread
)

A couple of weeks ago things got REALLY bad, to where she ran out the door having a hissy fit and the neighbors were looking out the windows. I pointed that out to her, she came inside and went to her room to calm down.

When she was over it, we sat here and typed up an agreement on how she wanted to be treated and how I wanted to be treated and compromised. I wrote out things she could do when her temper got out of hand (couting to 10, going outside on the back porch, journaling or even scribbling on a paper to get out her agression.) Consequences were laid out, and we both signed it.

Really? I didn't think it would work, since nothing else had. But it's been 2 weeks and not even one outburst. She "started" to the next day after this, but I just held the paper up and she counted to really loudly and calmed down.

I wish you all the luck in the world!
 
#14 ·
I'm sorry you are going through this too....

I have to say I agree with alot of the posters...especially about talking to her and finding out what the root of the problem (s) are. There are obviously reasons for "hating" things and it is our job as parents to listen to our children.

I have to say though...I DO NOT tolerate my children talking to me the way you said your dd talked to you. I will listen and nurture but I will not allow my children to disrespect me or any other adult....once you let them they will do it always and we have all seen those kids that are the result of 'non-parenting' which is what I call it when people let their kids treat them with no respect. I believe you can be firm(without violence) and still be loving. Another important factor is that all adults involved in the childs life are on the same page. Mother father teacher grandmother whoever spends time with her on a regular basis. If she sees that all the people who love and care about her are all on her side...she will probably open up a little more so you can nip this one in the bud.

I do have to say though, that when my oldest was 10 going on 11...hormones played a small part in her irradic behavior but its still no excuse to disrupt the entire family.

Communicating is key and even though she may not go through the process of thinking about how her actions are affecting everyone aroud her...she should and the only way she is going to learn that is through you. Thats your job.

Good Luck Mama
 
#15 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by klothos
that's normal for 3, Amberdawn.
My oldest never did this? It's normal for her to say she hates me, her sister, her aunts grandma etc and we hate her? It is normal for her to say that nobody loves her so sh is running away and or killing herself? At 3?


Amber
 
#16 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by Amberdawn
My oldest never did this? It's normal for her to say she hates me, her sister, her aunts grandma etc and we hate her?
yes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amberdawn
It is normal for her to say that nobody loves her so sh is running away and or killing herself? At 3?
no. how's her home life? + what sort of media is she exposed to?
 
#17 ·
So I try, for the most part to respond to my kids the same way I would to my closeest friend. If they are freaking out, first I'd like to know why.

Now with a kid who's freaking about getting up and getting to school, you have a good idea of why, and no time to discuss it. Also, if a friend started telling me she hated me, I'd be a bit pissy about it. Therefore, I see no problem with telling someone who's been exceptionally rude that you would prefer not to spend the evening with them. But I'd also want to spend some time discussing why either my child or my friend would speak to me that way. Is there a problem with school, is there some other problem?

My oldest two were awful while my youngest three were babies. It was hard to spend as much time with everyone. Going out, just the two of you, WILL help. Just a few hours a week, even to grocery shop and get an ice cream, will help.

Also,do not ever, ever, give in to a screaming, whining child. I mean, obvisiously, if there's a real problem it's important to listen to it. But if your kids are going through a nasty phase, be they 3 or 10 or 13, you need to stand firm. Otherwise they learn that whining and complaining work. My two nephews learned that early on-they whined that they couldn't tie their shoes till they were in second grade, then just wore velcro. It was easier for their mother to tie their shoes then listen to them or wiat for them. (I finally had them visit for a week and taught them to tie!) THis also worked on every other level, also. Listening to two 16 yo boys, who weigh upwards of 250lbs a piece, whine, is a disgusting thing, believe me!

On the other hand, if you punish her every time she mouths off by taking away priveledges, you're both going to be pretty miserable. I'd try not to take any of any more personally than a 2 yo's temper. I would send her from teh room or leave the room myself if she got going. I would try to have 'natural consequences' whenever possible. If she misses the bus, is it possible she would have to walk to school? Or do an extra chore to make up for you driving her? Having it all in writing in advance is a great plan.

Try to keep a sense of humor. Can you turn it around with a quick joke once in a while?

And good luck. Puberty is why we don't mind when our kids say they're moving out!
 
#18 ·
I think I read somewhere that from 8 to 10 kids start getting little surges of hormones ( and then later big surges of hormones when things really start to change) and that the hormonal difference can cause behavior changes. And that has been my experience with both my ds's. I'm sending you a
because I am sure you could use one. 10-12 is a hard age. They are on the edge of adolescence. I agree that trying to really listen and find out what is bothering her is important. I also agree that sometimes it is very hard to help them get past the emotions and turmoil to the real issue...what they need or what is bothering them. I am dealing with this,too, again and trying to keep in mind that I have been through this before with my first ds...I do understand that it is often hard to stay calm when your child seems so unhappy and out of control. And it is especially hard when you have other children to take care of at the same time. BTDT. I understand that their emotions can turn on a dime. I can remember being 10 and wishing a grown-up would take me seriously and listen. I have to remind myself that my 10 yo feels the same way. They have worries and concerns, too, that even though they might seem silly to us, are very serious to them. I guess the best advice I have to give is try to get past the drama part to find out what the real issues are. I think sometimes at that age they even scare themselves because their emotions are so strong. Knowing that they have you to help them is invaluable. All that said, I am not always a calm, patient mom. I have my days when I just can't deal with it...and if I blow it...I will apologize later for being snippy or short. All in all, from that my kids know I am not perfect, I don't expect them to be perfect and even if people mess up, yell or make mistakes...we are all still loved in this family ykwim? ETA- my kids will also apologize later when they have been less than polite.
 
#19 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by klothos
yes.

no. how's her home life? + what sort of media is she exposed to?

I am a single parent living with my grandparents while I go to school. the childrens father is gone (last I heard he was in Minessota)

she watches CareBears, Land Before Time, Spirit etc. nothing over G rated at home, she saw the Harry Potter movies at my moms house but only once. when I told my mom they scared her my mom put them away.

she only watches 3 hours of tv a day max. The rest of the time she is outside playing or inside.

This suicide talk started after my oldest daughter came home. my youngest was 2.5 and it has just gotten worse.

I have talked to a counsler to try and get some help and she basically told me I was crazy a 2.5 year old would never do that.

I am at the end of my rope, I have tried everything up to and including shutting her in her room. Her attitude is getting worse and worse and I am scared of what she will be like when she does become a teen.

Last night she threatened to kill her sister if she didn't leave the house and never come back.

I have wondered if this could be a jeaulosy thing because her sister came home and was getting a ton of attention.

Any help would be gretly apreciated.
 
#22 ·
I wold post this on the Childhood years board if I were you... but Rain said some pretty strong things when she was 5. She wished I'd die, her best friend would die, she wished she was dead... scary stuff.

I would never, ever punish her for saying something like that. She's trying to tell you how she feels in the best way she knows how, at 3, and you need to be listening, not punishing. That's not "attitude", that's a little girl with storng feelings trying to get her needs met.

I would try to reflect the feelings you thnk may be behind the words, a la Faber and Mazlish. "You sound really *angry* at sister right now" or "Wow, you sound very unhappy. Can you tell me more about why you're so unhappy?". Then go from there, reassuring her as needed and trying to find a way to resolve the issue.

By freaking out over the strong words she's using, you reinforce her using those very words. She probably doesn't really have an understanding of what they mean - comprehending death is beyond the grasp of most 3 yr olds - but she's heard people use the words and she knows they're strong words, because they get you upset. She needs different tools, more appropriate tools - words she can use to express her strong feelinsg adequately.

Drawing may help, too, you could suggest it. I remember Rain drawing a picture of someone she was angry at with arrows being shot at her, and on a big fire. I was okay with that... no one was hurt, and she could express just how angry she was. There was another picture she drew of her pooping all over me that worked in pretty much the same way. It was better that hitting or kicking or spitting, which were the other tools in her toolbox at the time.

Little kids can have strong feelings, especially intense, sensitive little kids. The trick is to channel those feelings into more and more appropriate expressions- and it's a constant process of growth, these are skills they'll be refining for years.

FWIW, with Rain there was a definite situational aspect to her anger, and resolving that went a long way towards making her a happier, less angry kid...

Dar
 
#23 ·
Dar said:
I would never, ever punish her for saying something like that. She's trying to tell you how she feels in the best way she knows how, at 3, and you need to be listening, not punishing. That's not "attitude", that's a little girl with storng feelings trying to get her needs met.

I never said it was an "attitude" I shut her in her room because she threatened to kill her sister (I guess I should have gone into more detail.)

Heres what happened. I tucked the kids into bed at 8 then sat down at the computer. half an hour later my oldest, Tanya, came running in the room screaming. my youngest Annah, was chasing her. Annah had a steak knife in her hand and was screming at Tanya "Get out of my house or I will kill you" over and over. When I tried to take the knife away she ran away and hid under her covers. I got the knife away and shut Annah in her room untill she quit screaming.

I went in and asked her why she wanted her sister gone all she would tell me is she hates her.

Annah draws all the time, all her pictures are big black blobs. I print pages off the net for the girls to color and all Annah does is color them all completely black.

I don't punish her when she says the things she does I try and talk to her or I just tell her that I love her no matter what and she gets mad and screams at me, hits, kicks bites or thrws things at me.

What else am I supposed to do?

Amber
 
#24 ·
My son was the same way when he was 10 and 11 (crying and all!). I call this the 'life is not fair' phase. I would reiterate what others have said: give her an alarm clock hand the responsiblity for being ready on time over to her (along with natural consequences - like if she misses the bus, she will have to pay you for your time driving her to school or something of that nature); listen beyond the anger and try to find out what is really going on; keep your sense of humor; and ****try not to escalate the situation*****. You can say something like "I'm hearing that you are really _____ (hurt, angry, sad, frustrated, etc), but we cannot have a discussion when you are being rude to me. If you would like to talk about something without ________ (insulting me, being rude, cursing, etc), I would like to try and help you." In addition, yelling and punishing feeds into the cycle, pushes her away from you and makes her feel justified in a feeling of anger toward you. Despite the fact that you may have done nothing, and what she really is feeling bad about is the bus driver yelling at her and a girl in homeroom that made fun of her new shoes!

I hope this helps!
 
#25 ·
Thanks Mamas!

Thanks so much for all of the wonderful advice. I just realized that my original post was last Monday, exactly 7 days ago and this morning was very similar to last week. Amazingly, I've just gotten my first email notice that there was a reply here and apparently I've missed all of them.

I've realized that her outburst had nothing to do with school, the bus driver, or the kids at school. In fact, on a normal day, if I'm the one running late and can't get her to the bus stop on time, she's upset at the thought of having to be driven to school, cause she enjoys riding the bus with her friends. It seems to me that she was very tired both last Monday and today, despite going to bed at the normal time. It looks like we need to work on getting her to bed a little earlier until these things stop happening. Tonight she'll go to bed a 1/2 hour earlier as a natural consequence. This has worked before. Her alarm clock is going to be put into use again. I'm also going to take gas money out of her allowance when she is late and I'm forced to drive her to school. I honestly would love to be driving her to school every day, but I have a toddler who just can't handle being in the car seat for that long so early in the morning.

Anyway, I just wanted to say thanks for all of the helpful advice and encouragement.
 
#26 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by mamapenelope
For real, for her, it's not about *you.* Just like a 2yo who couldn't give a flip about your reality, your 10 yo has no clue what she's doing *to you* because she's not wired to understand.
eh, i'm not buying this.

it is about you. it should be about you. the family is a unit and at 10 years old it's okay to hear "i feel very sad when you tell me you hate me."
she may not be wired to understand but it's okay (imo) to let her know that those words hurt. a lot.

sorry things are so rough right now for both of you. i hope you can get to the bottom of things soon.

just one more thought, grounding her to her room seems counterproductive to me. she needs to learn to be more sensitive to you. she won't learn how to do that in her room, kwim?
 
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