How to deal with this very uncomfortable situation? UPDATE bottom pg 2 - Mothering Forums

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Old 05-17-2006, 05:52 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I take care of my disabled older brother... He is 28 he hates to be alone.

So when I had to leave for a day I asked a good friend of mine to have him over to her house and play video games and stuff like that. my 15 yr old brother went with him as he was with me for spring break.

Well they went to my friends house... she has a 5 yr old daughter.

I called several times to check on them... everything was fine... I came and picked them up and my friend told me that everyone had lots of fun and there was no trouble at all....

picking them up and heading to the car I noticed my older brother was really quite and upset... he didn't want to talk about it at all... he came home and went right to his room... I asked him over and over if he was ok... he said I don't know... I told him that when he was ready to talk I was here.

Later he came up stairs ... very flustered and red in the face.. practically crying. and he told me what happened.

He and my younger brother (who confirms the story) were sitting down playing ps2 when my friends 5 yr old came in the room... sat down on the floor right in front of them... and started to touch herself in front of them .... ... telling them to watch me watch me...

My brothers freaked out and yelled for my friend... the little girl jumped up and ran in her room... they told my friend and she said :"yeah she does that sometimes"

My older brother was very upset and uncomfortable and asked if he could call me to come and get him... my friend said no that it was no big deal..... so he sat in the bathroom for the rest of the day.

He told me all this and is mad because I sent him there,.... I honestly had no idea it would happen of course.

I want to talk to my friend about this... but I don't want to upset her... i am still in shock that she didn't tell me what happened.

I know that masterbation is a very normal and healthy thing for children but that it should be something they are taught not to share... something that is theres alone and meant for privacy.

I am worried that she was so open with it... I have no idea how to aproach my friend with this. I told my brothers that they never have to go back there and it wasn't there fault but I don't think my older brother understands that it is ok for him to feel uncomfortable with this.

ugh what would you do? how would you bring this up?

Loving Dh, Mama x 4, Surrogate mother to 5. A born 2003, M and R girl/girl twins 2006, S and C boy/girl twins born 2010. Processing/healing.
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Old 05-17-2006, 08:38 PM
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Your friend was probably embarrassed and that's why she acted like she was blowing it off.
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Old 05-17-2006, 08:42 PM
 
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First of all,
I agree that children do experiment at that age but she should definitely be taught that its not appropriate in front of other people.

Secondaly, your older brother should not have been forced to stay anywhere where he is no longer comfortable. He should of have been given every opportunity to call you and let you know what is going on and to leave if necessary.

I feel is was wrong of your friend not only to make him stay but also to brush off the situation and not even tell you about it.

I know you dont want to hurt no ones feelings, but i feel your brothers were hurt. You need to tell her that something has been bothering you and explain what you did in this forum and tell her how you feel, that you are hurt that she didnt even mention it to you.

Also explain that your brother was so affected that he is no longer comfortable going there. If shes a close friend and cares about you and your family, then she will understand. Let me know how it goes. Good Luck.
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Old 05-17-2006, 10:34 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Yeah I am going to invite her over for tea tomorrow and try to talk with her... my brother will be out with my dh so he won't be here.

Loving Dh, Mama x 4, Surrogate mother to 5. A born 2003, M and R girl/girl twins 2006, S and C boy/girl twins born 2010. Processing/healing.
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Old 05-17-2006, 11:24 PM
 
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here goes even if you don't want to hear it
that child has been molested

that is not normal masturbatory behavior for a five year old child--to do it in front of older kids, even an adult
that is NOT NORMAL i repeat

being a good citizen, you need to report this to Children's Protective Services it's up to you if you want to tell the mom or not but you can file a complaint anonymously

i work with sexually abused children and this behavior is a HUGE red flag of serious abuse

my two cents take it or leave it
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Old 05-18-2006, 12:43 AM
 
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Originally Posted by bewitchedmama
here goes even if you don't want to hear it
that child has been molested

that is not normal masturbatory behavior for a five year old child--to do it in front of older kids, even an adult
that is NOT NORMAL i repeat

being a good citizen, you need to report this to Children's Protective Services it's up to you if you want to tell the mom or not but you can file a complaint anonymously

i work with sexually abused children and this behavior is a HUGE red flag of serious abuse

my two cents take it or leave it

:


I agree, this was my first response too. This seems outside the bounds of normal sexual exploration. I am worried something has happened to or in front of this child.
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Old 05-18-2006, 03:06 AM
 
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you asked...i'm answering

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

here goes even if you don't want to hear it
that child has been molested

that is not normal masturbatory behavior for a five year old child--to do it in front of older kids, even an adult
that is NOT NORMAL i repeat

being a good citizen, you need to report this to Children's Protective Services it's up to you if you want to tell the mom or not but you can file a complaint anonymously

i work with sexually abused children and this behavior is a HUGE red flag of serious abuse

my two cents take it or leave it
i totally agree. Raising hand here as another person who worked with CPS and knows the signs.


My heart is breaking for this little girl and for your brother who had to see this and def. knows somethings is not right with it.

Please please do something about this. ((HUGS)))

Me and my wonderful husband serve God. Blessed with twin girls 2/11/11. <3

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Old 05-18-2006, 04:00 AM
 
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Originally Posted by mama2toomany
... telling them to watch me watch me...
I am no expert, but this is the part that made me think "molestation". Masterbating is a little more gray, but wanting attention for it like that seems too much to me.

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Old 05-18-2006, 09:50 AM
 
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is it the fact that she said watch me or that she did it in front of them? (saying it was molestation)

When my niece was 2-3 she use to start humping this stuffed toy, right in front of my dh and i. I have to say it was a tad uncomfortable, and she was going right at it! So was she molested also?
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Old 05-18-2006, 10:19 AM
 
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The watch me watch me throws up red flags for me.. why would she say that? And most little girls if they are going to masterbate are just going to rub on a couch arm or a stuffed animal, she put on a show.. something is up. IMO of course
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Old 05-18-2006, 10:57 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Canadianmommax3
When my niece was 2-3 she use to start humping this stuffed toy, right in front of my dh and i. I have to say it was a tad uncomfortable, and she was going right at it! So was she molested also?
I don't know, but there's a HUGE cognitive difference between 2-3 and 5.
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Old 05-18-2006, 11:34 AM
 
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I would not let my brother stay there anymore. The mentally challenged person can get accused of anything and are believe to be hyper-sexual and cannot control it. Is he mentally challenged or just physically?

Think about this. If that girl is getting molested someone place the blame on your brother he could be put in a situation harder for him to legally disprove his innocence.

I wouldn't be bothered if she had just masturbated with him there (like sitting there on the couch watching TV and twaddling,) it is the "Look at me" that has me really worried about the situation. Now if your brother was the same age as this child I wouldn’t think that much of it.

I would find some other adult day care situation for him.
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Old 05-18-2006, 11:38 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Canadianmommax3
is it the fact that she said watch me or that she did it in front of them? (saying it was molestation)

When my niece was 2-3 she use to start humping this stuffed toy, right in front of my dh and i. I have to say it was a tad uncomfortable, and she was going right at it! So was she molested also?
It is the "watch me" that is over the edge of normal behavior. Some five year olds will "twaddle" there parts in front of someone else still, it ussually is not a behavior they are aware they are doing. Humping is ussually already a known no-no infront of others. If this was 2 five year olds and the girl said look at this it would be concidered "normal" in the I show you mine you show me yours. A 2-3 year old doing it is very normal.
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Old 05-18-2006, 11:51 AM
 
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Wow. Poor little girl....and that is terrible for your brother as well. I would definatley tell my friend that her daughter's behavior is a sign of abuse, maybe she doesn't even know! I wouldn't just run to call CPS before getting a better idea of the home-situation though, they do not always know what is best. I think it is, however, necessary to call CPS if you suspect the abuse is still occurring and is not a past thing.

As for your brother, I don't have any idea what you could to make him more comfortable and get over the shock, mayben a written apology, even one from your friend....?

Gee, sure HTH, and let us know what happens!
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Old 05-18-2006, 12:05 PM
 
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It sounds like she's been exposed to pornography.

Or maybe it's just like when my two year old pokes her finger up her nose in front of me, just waiting for me to react. Maybe she's just figured out a way to garner a lot of attention for herself.
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Old 05-18-2006, 12:16 PM
 
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Originally Posted by blessed
It sounds like she's been exposed to pornography.

Or maybe it's just like when my two year old pokes her finger up her nose in front of me, just waiting for me to react. Maybe she's just figured out a way to garner a lot of attention for herself.
Or could she have caught mommy and daddy in a sex act? Or just discovered what she can do, make her finger hide?

It is still odd though she said watch me. and I would protect my brother and not send him over. Then discuss it with the parents and see if there is something going on.
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Old 05-18-2006, 12:34 PM
 
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Originally Posted by merrybee
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I agree, this was my first response too. This seems outside the bounds of normal sexual exploration. I am worried something has happened to or in front of this child.
That was my first thought as well. I'm not an expert on this issue, but what disturbs me are the following elements of this scenario:

1. The deliberate, purposeful self-stimulation. In my understanding, which may be flawed, kids' masturbation is more spur-of-the-moment and less "practiced."

2. The fact that she masturbated in front of two men who were virtual strangers.

3. The most disturbing element -- her demands, "Watch me! Watch me!"

This is an age, generally speaking, where girls tend to be more private than before, more reluctant to leave the bathroom door open, more conscious of themselves as separate beings with a need for privacy. This disturbs me greatly and I would definitely call someone.
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Old 05-18-2006, 02:22 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Marsupialmom
I would not let my brother stay there anymore. The mentally challenged person can get accused of anything and are believe to be hyper-sexual and cannot control it.

Think about this. If that girl is getting molested someone place the blame on your brother he could be put in a situation harder for him to legally disprove his innocence.
.
I'm glad somebody finally said it; as the mother of a teenaged boy, I'm afraid that's the first thought that popped into my head. It doesn't mean that I have no compassion for the little girl, but your brothers are your family and she isn't.

The 28 year old's behaviour was amazingly sensible, both from a a self-preservation point of view and from a compassion for the little girl point of view. He should be commended for his common sense. I find it hard to believe that a mentally challenged person could cope so well under that kind of stress, but if I am mistaken, please compliment him and let him know how well he handled himself.

The 15 year old could easily be falsely accused as well. As a registered sex offender, his picture, address, and very vague details about the crime could be posted on the internet. This would affect him forever, not just personally, but as far as employment and education prospects.

Please remember that when innocent men are falsely accused, guilty men get off scot free.
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Old 05-18-2006, 03:11 PM
 
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That was my first thought as well. I'm not an expert on this issue, but what disturbs me are the following elements of this scenario:

1. The deliberate, purposeful self-stimulation. In my understanding, which may be flawed, kids' masturbation is more spur-of-the-moment and less "practiced."

2. The fact that she masturbated in front of two men who were virtual strangers.

3. The most disturbing element -- her demands, "Watch me! Watch me!"

This is an age, generally speaking, where girls tend to be more private than before, more reluctant to leave the bathroom door open, more conscious of themselves as separate beings with a need for privacy. This disturbs me greatly and I would definitely call someone.
These statements are completely on the mark. The little girl, if only masterbating, would not have made the show of it, even if she gets attention for it from her mother or whomever, the fact that this was strangers, little ones at that age really need their privacy. I dont know what you are going to do, I hope that you at least speak to the friend and see what her take is on it. Its hard to jump the gun here, but from my professional experience as working with children who have been abused, I would say this is highly probably that she has had some inappropriate encounter with sex, be it pornography, or a person.

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Old 05-18-2006, 05:59 PM - Thread Starter
 
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My brother has FAS (fetal alcohol syndrom) and club foot.

He is a very high functional person. But he also came from a very abusive home. He was pretty much tortured for the first 18 years of his life. He likes kids but keeps his distance because he thinks he scares them. and when I say tortured that is exactly what I mean. not just daily spankings in our house. He was thrown down stairs for wetting the bed,.... he was taken into the basement with a pillow over his head and beaten with boards... he is a true survivor in every sence of the word. I am amazed at how gentle he is.


He has talked to me some more about the event that happened at my friends house. and he too wants me to feel out if the little girl is being molested. his words were :"how did she learn to do that?" somthing bad must have happened.... she shouldn't be in that house....

About the family... the little girl is not the only child... they have an 8 yr old daughter and the husband is in the service and has been home for about 5 months... he was just put on active again but will not be far from home... He seems to be such a good guy.

my friend well she seems to sleep alot... maybe depression? She recently confided in me that she is expecting again. She sounded happy about the news.

I know the little girl stays home all day with her mom... they are always together and the dad is very militant and runs a tight ship when he is home... not really a hugging senstive father type. He seems very polite and has confessed to me that coming home was very difficult and the chaos in the house is more than he can stomach sometimes... He likes things clean and they are anything but tidy. I never got a bad vibe from him. Just felt a little sorry for him.

But that is about all I know... we are not close close friends... she is in a mothers group with me... I have not sent my daughter to her house for babysitting because of all of this.

I am going to try to get her to come over for tea and have a talk with her.

Loving Dh, Mama x 4, Surrogate mother to 5. A born 2003, M and R girl/girl twins 2006, S and C boy/girl twins born 2010. Processing/healing.
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Old 05-18-2006, 06:25 PM
 
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I think I disagree with the majority - I didn't think "abused kid" when I read your post.

I have three daughters. Four and five year old girls masturbate. Yes, they need to be taught it is private - but it was a process to get my dd to understand that.... She would do it in the family room while watching tv. When I explained that it was private and she could do that in her bedroom, she would sometimes cover up with a blanket in the family room - thinking that that was enough privacy I guess! There were times she did that when people were over - she just wasn't (at four) thinking about who was in the room next door or who might walk in. It was embarrassing for me but she really didn't see the issue. She did learn that it belonged in her bedroom though. And it was a phase that she grew out of - at least that we ever see!

The "look at me, look at me" part is odd in that context - but kids that age often say that about other things so not SO unimaginable.

I feel badly for your brother though. I bet your friend didn't want to ruin your day by letting him call you and stopping whatever it was that required you asking her help in the first place. She is probably also a bit embarrassed. But I wouldn't go into your get together with "I think your daughter has been abused". And the person who said to call CPS - whoa! That is WAY overkill and completely uncalled for IMO. Talk to your friend about it seeming like it COULD be a red flag for her having seen a sexual tv show/movie accidentally or something - and see what happens.
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Old 05-18-2006, 06:30 PM
 
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Originally Posted by mama2toomany
My brother has FAS (fetal alcohol syndrom) and club foot.

He is a very high functional person. But he also came from a very abusive home. He was pretty much tortured for the first 18 years of his life. He likes kids but keeps his distance because he thinks he scares them. and when I say tortured that is exactly what I mean. not just daily spankings in our house. He was thrown down stairs for wetting the bed,.... he was taken into the basement with a pillow over his head and beaten with boards... he is a true survivor in every sence of the word. I am amazed at how gentle he is.
That is sooo awful. were you raised by the same parents? I'm so glad he has you to take care of him now
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Old 05-18-2006, 07:09 PM - Thread Starter
 
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yes we were raised with the same parents... I think the only reason I am at all able to function as an adult was because I had my brother with me through it all.

Loving Dh, Mama x 4, Surrogate mother to 5. A born 2003, M and R girl/girl twins 2006, S and C boy/girl twins born 2010. Processing/healing.
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Old 05-18-2006, 07:19 PM
 
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yes we were raised with the same parents... I think the only reason I am at all able to function as an adult was because I had my brother with me through it all.
Wow s you two are so lucky have eachother then. That is so terrifying to me, that I can't even comprehend someone doing that.....my thoughts are with you
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Old 05-18-2006, 08:08 PM
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It is not normal behavior. Even if the 5 yr old's mother was open about masterbation, the fact that she chose to act that way in front of two strange men is a huge red flag.

All my years of parenting, and, yes, my kids masterbate, they have never used it as a way of getting attention. They have jumped on ppl, yelled "HEY, LISTEN TO ME!", etc., but never used their sexuality to get attention.

mama2toomany- Tell your brother that what he felt was right and when he asked to leave, he was right. He should be empowered for his actions and thoughts.
Also, he has every right to be mad at you for putting him in that situation. Let him know you made an honest mistake and that you do love him and care about him and you will take steps to protect him in the future.
As any child who has been hurt, even if it was another kid at the park who threw sand at them, they need to have their feelings validated and know that their caregiver is doing their best to protect them.
I would also help your brother learn how to get to safety if he finds himself in situation where you are not there. Are there other adults he can call? Let him know it is okay to leave the house and call you from a pay phone. Let him know if he cannot get a hold of you, that it is okay to call his other contact to come and get him.

Make sure he understands the difference between safety and being bored or upset about rules, as you don't want him taking off every time he is just upset, but that if he has those feelings like he did at your friends house, to get a hold of an adult who will get him to safety.

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Old 05-18-2006, 08:29 PM
 
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This is what my DH does for a living and this screams molestation!
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Old 05-18-2006, 09:25 PM
 
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Originally Posted by mama2toomany
My brother has FAS (fetal alcohol syndrom) and club foot.



He has talked to me some more about the event that happened at my friends house. and he too wants me to feel out if the little girl is being molested. his words were :"how did she learn to do that?" somthing bad must have happened.... she shouldn't be in that house....
I couldn't've said it better myself.
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Old 05-19-2006, 04:00 AM
 
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He has talked to me some more about the event that happened at my friends house. and he too wants me to feel out if the little girl is being molested. his words were :"how did she learn to do that?" somthing bad must have happened.... she shouldn't be in that house....
Can I just say that after 7 years of working with disabled adults in a working environment that most of them, though disabled are very smart when it comes to knowing whats right and wrong. For your brother to make this statement tells me def. something is not right. ((Hugs)) for your brother, he sounds like a super person!!

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Old 05-19-2006, 04:16 AM
 
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definitely talk to the mom. first your brother locked himself in the bathroom all day. if he was that upset it was cruel for her not to call you. and if he was that botheredshe could have at least told you when you got there.

I would say the little girls behavior was definitely odd. something is of somewhere even if it is not sexual abuse. perhaps starting with a counselor would be a good suggestion.

The truest answer to violence is love. The truest answer to death is life. The only prevention for violence is for the heart to have no violence within it.  We cannot prevent evil through any system devised by mankind. But we can grapple with evil and defeat it, but only with love—real love.

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Old 05-19-2006, 07:07 PM - Thread Starter
 
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We added my brother to our cell phone plan so now he has his own cell phone and he can use it no matter what.


I still have not met my friend for tea... hopefully she will be available soon. I feel it is a conversation that should be in person.

Loving Dh, Mama x 4, Surrogate mother to 5. A born 2003, M and R girl/girl twins 2006, S and C boy/girl twins born 2010. Processing/healing.
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