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Preteens and Teens > rules my husband found for dating his daughte
Dawn38's Avatar Dawn38 08:54 PM 06-22-2006
Houdini would love to respond but lost power due to storm.
I am talking to her on the phone, that is how I know.
In her defence, she doesn't need anyone to keep her son "in line". She has taught her children to respect everyone. She just understands when a joke is a joke.

Yoshua's Avatar Yoshua 08:54 PM 06-22-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by treereach
ok, whatever, I'm going to make dinner now. just don't go anywhere near my kid with a gun, regardless of where he touches your daughter.

Better idea. tell your kid to respect people. and after this conversation, what makes you think I'd let your kid date my daughter in the first place? Obviously have different idea's for respect.
Yoshua's Avatar Yoshua 08:56 PM 06-22-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by secretresistance
Did you not mean to imply then, that you are suspicious of teenage boys in general because you've seen how some of them behave, and remember how you felt as a teenage boy? That is mass judgment based on age and gender and an entirely different animal than judging an individual based his or her own unique merits and faults.

I am suspiscious of teenagers in general, why people keep designating one gender over another is beyond me.


i am not sexist. I am suspiscious and cautious.

*edit

and how am i supposed to know ones merits and faults the first time they walk up to my door exactly?
Dawn38's Avatar Dawn38 08:57 PM 06-22-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshua
Better idea. tell your kid to respect people. and after this conversation, what makes you think I'd let your kid date my daughter in the first place? Obviously have different idea's for respect.
Houdini and I agree completely Yoshua!!
Yoshua's Avatar Yoshua 09:00 PM 06-22-2006
i'll check this thread when i get home. it has entertained me for the rest of my day at work.


i have a sense of humor, it is dark and sadistic at times, but it is there and I own up to it.


granted, you dont 'need' a dark and sadistic sense of humor to get this joke, it just helps.
secretresistance's Avatar secretresistance 09:14 PM 06-22-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshua
I am suspiscious of teenagers in general, why people keep designating one gender over another is beyond me.

i am not sexist. I am suspiscious and cautious.

*edit

and how am i supposed to know ones merits and faults the first time they walk up to my door exactly?
You imply that your suspicion of the boys in the equation is based out of the experiences and mindsets of your peer group. Are you suspicious of teenage girls for different reasons than you are suspicious of teenage boys? Why do you have the suspicions you do?

You don't know much if anything about a particular person's merits the first time you meet them. So why do you see fit to judge them at that time? Because of their age? Because of their gender? Because of both in combination?

In my view, this joke is based off of the widespread ideology that men are sex fiends and women are fragile flowers that need defense against these wild hump beasts. Both genders are pigeonholed into their usual sexist boxes and that is offensive to me, not humorous. Which is not to say that I expect everyone to feel similarly!
secretresistance's Avatar secretresistance 09:22 PM 06-22-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by mommaof3boz
I am appalled with this thread. Someone posted something she thought was funny. A couple of other people thought it funny. Not everything has to turn into World War Three on MDC. Not everything is a political statement. Not everything is a debate. There is something to be said for "if you don't have something nice/decent to say to a person don't say anything". She was laughing about something her husband thought funny and frankly many of you are being downright rude. I think that goes against every rule here on MDC. IRL you can say whatever you want to someone but you have to say it looking at their face and knowing you've hurt their feelings. Online its much easier to blast someone forgetting they are a human being behind their keyboard. Being with open minded people are why many come to MDC, its a shame when this behavior goes on. No wonder women can't get along.
I have had no intention of being rude, only to voice my opinion and explore both my ideas and those of others. No one has to participate in any discussions here beyond their desire to. This has turned into a debate, despite its original form. Isn't that sometimes the nature of discussion boards? I would have no trouble stating my case and asking my questions face to face. What has been rude, in your opinion?

I do feel for the OP, in that I think she'll be surprised at the outcome of her post! I hope she's not scared away by the perhaps vociferous set. But what kind of place would MDC be without discussion, disagreement and exploration of beliefs?
secretresistance's Avatar secretresistance 09:27 PM 06-22-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by WNB
I think it is possible to see both the humor and the sexism inherent in stuff like this. Dads are protective of their daughters, sometimes to the point of caricature and making fools of themselves. The underlying message of the self-deprecating caricature is that their daughter is valued and loved and treasured.

That we don't often see these sorts of "rules for dating my son" is a sign of the lingering double standards about boys' and girls' sexuality. Instead, we get "rules for marrying my son" and mother-in-law jokes - jokes with little grains of truth to them, in many people's experience, that show that mothers can be just as controlling and over-protective of their sons, even though it is not generally manifested with respect to his sexuality, but more with respect to "taking care" of him.
And finally... I can totally get on board with this post.

I feel like I "get" the humor here, and see where those who find it funny are coming from. But for someone with my individual set of beliefs and philosophies it happens to be offensive.

The mother-in-law jokes are equally offensive and unfunny to me, and I'm glad you've highlighted the flipside of this particular joke.
eightyferrettoes's Avatar eightyferrettoes 10:40 PM 06-22-2006
I am so glad my dad didn't feel like he was the defender of my punani's "purity."

The thought of my dad investing that much time into worrying about who was or wasn't allowed in there is completely disgusting.

I find MIL jokes pretty yucky, too. I guess I think those kinds of "jokes" set people up to be at odds with each other before anything negative ever happens, and puts them in a mindset where they aren't responsible for handling their disagreements: "well, that's how MILs are, whaddya want?"

We should, instead, learn to respectfully handle our disagreements and boundaries in a complicated (new!) family relationship. Jokes like that don't do anything to help us through that process, any more than "evil stepmother" jokes do anything to help blended families negotiate those issues.

But I'm bothered by how driven people are to control their kids' sexuality, especially their daughters'... my MIL and I may not see eye-to-eye on all (or even most) matters, but she certainly never thought of forbidding her son from having sex with me. Or anyone else.

His sexuality was his to handle, and she trusted that he was a good, moral, person with enough intelligence to be in charge of his own sexual affairs.

why do we not assume the same of our daughters? Do they deserve less of our trust?

????
eightyferrettoes's Avatar eightyferrettoes 10:52 PM 06-22-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshua
Better idea. tell your kid to respect people. and after this conversation, what makes you think I'd let your kid date my daughter in the first place? Obviously have different idea's for respect.
You can't respect a person whose genitals you've touched? I'll tell my husband.

silliness.

I guess we do all have different "idea's for respect."
treereach's Avatar treereach 11:16 PM 06-22-2006
Uhhh, ok, yoshua, now that you told me to, I guess I will teach my son to respect people.
UnschoolnMa's Avatar UnschoolnMa 11:18 PM 06-22-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by secretresistance
And finally... I can totally get on board with this post.

I feel like I "get" the humor here, and see where those who find it funny are coming from. But for someone with my individual set of beliefs and philosophies it happens to be offensive.

The mother-in-law jokes are equally offensive and unfunny to me, and I'm glad you've highlighted the flipside of this particular joke.
ITA with this whole post. I have a strained relationship with my MIL, like a lot of people do, but hurtful threatening jokes at her expense are not appropriate or helpful.
treereach's Avatar treereach 11:21 PM 06-22-2006
Quote:
I am so glad my dad didn't feel like he was the defender of my punani's "purity."

The thought of my dad investing that much time into worrying about who was or wasn't allowed in there is completely disgusting.

UnschoolnMa's Avatar UnschoolnMa 11:29 PM 06-22-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by eightyferrettoes


His sexuality was his to handle, and she trusted that he was a good, moral, person with enough intelligence to be in charge of his own sexual affairs.

why do we not assume the same of our daughters? Do they deserve less of our trust?

????


Why do people assume that girls are incompetent with regard to sexual decisions & therefore they must have a male (father or boyfriend) be in control of it, and that boys are ravaging sex beasts incapable of responsible thought and respect to women?? What on earth is that about? It's crazy I tell ya.

Yoshua's Avatar Yoshua 11:31 PM 06-22-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by secretresistance
You imply that your suspicion of the boys in the equation is based out of the experiences and mindsets of your peer group. Are you suspicious of teenage girls for different reasons than you are suspicious of teenage boys? Why do you have the suspicions you do?

You don't know much if anything about a particular person's merits the first time you meet them. So why do you see fit to judge them at that time? Because of their age? Because of their gender? Because of both in combination?

In my view, this joke is based off of the widespread ideology that men are sex fiends and women are fragile flowers that need defense against these wild hump beasts. Both genders are pigeonholed into their usual sexist boxes and that is offensive to me, not humorous. Which is not to say that I expect everyone to feel similarly!

Because I choose to. Why do you feel a need to specify a why?

Ur issue. not mine.
Yoshua's Avatar Yoshua 11:32 PM 06-22-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by eightyferrettoes
You can't respect a person whose genitals you've touched? I'll tell my husband.

silliness.

I guess we do all have different "idea's for respect."

you are mistaken. No where did I say that.

just wanted to clarify and say 'someone was misinterpreting my words, or putting words into my mouth.'

that is all.
Yoshua's Avatar Yoshua 11:33 PM 06-22-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by treereach
Uhhh, ok, yoshua, now that you told me to, I guess I will teach my son to respect people.

i am glad, that makes me happy. I can now sleep well at night and stop starving myself in worry.
Yoshua's Avatar Yoshua 11:35 PM 06-22-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnschoolnMa


Why do people assume that girls are incompetent with regard to sexual decisions & therefore they must have a male (father or boyfriend) be in control of it, and that boys are ravaging sex beasts incapable of responsible thought and respect to women?? What on earth is that about? It's crazy I tell ya.

'people' who are these people? where can i find them? crazy people. Everyone is incompetent with regard to sexual decision pre-18. why would they think only girls should be protected? protect the boys too! protect the boys too!
UnschoolnMa's Avatar UnschoolnMa 11:38 PM 06-22-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshua
Everyone is incompetent with regard to sexual decision pre-18. why would they think only girls should be protected? protect the boys too! protect the boys too!

(Bold emphasis mine.)
I couldn't disagree more with that statement. There is nothing special and magical about the age of 18 that imparts some hidden insight regarding sex. I wasn't referring to "crazy people". I was referring to the idea that girls are incompetent and boys are always sex crazed disrespectful beings being crazy.

the_lissa's Avatar the_lissa 11:40 PM 06-22-2006
I TA with everything unschoolnma has said.

My sexual decisions before I was 18 were very competent, thank you very much. 18 is such an arbitrary number, and maturity happens at different rates for different people.
secretresistance's Avatar secretresistance 11:44 PM 06-22-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshua
Because I choose to. Why do you feel a need to specify a why?

Ur issue. not mine.
Sorry, because you choose to what? I'm trying to gain understanding of your perspective. You have questioned me about where I'm seeing sexism, I answer you and ask some questions of my own. Dialogue, see? If you're done, say the word.

I don't know what you mean by "Ur issue. not mine."
eightyferrettoes's Avatar eightyferrettoes 11:47 PM 06-22-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshua
Everyone is incompetent with regard to sexual decision pre-18.
Naw, I don't think so. I was a legally emancipated minor at 17, and my sexual values were already pretty much what they are today.

Nothing about turning eighteen magically confers wisdom in sexual matters. I've met 30-year-olds who didn't seem to have any sense at all, and 15-year-olds who seemed pretty solid.

I don't think post pubescent kids need to be protected from their own sexuality; just educated.
Yoshua's Avatar Yoshua 11:47 PM 06-22-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnschoolnMa

(Bold emphasis mine.)
I couldn't disagree more with that statement. There is nothing special and magical about the age of 18 that imparts some hidden insight regarding sex. I wasn't referring to "crazy people". I was referring to the idea that girls are incompetent and boys are always sex crazed disrespectful beings being crazy.

catch the sarcasm, at least lift your glove into the air so it might accidentally fall into it.
Houdini's Avatar Houdini 11:48 PM 06-22-2006
I am going to jump in here and say pre-18 my crew are my responsibility, so I will do whatever is I deem necessary to ensure their safety. Each household is different and I don't expect everyone would agree with my decision; however, that is the beauty of it.....the decision is mine to make.
Yoshua's Avatar Yoshua 11:50 PM 06-22-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by secretresistance
Sorry, because you choose to what? I'm trying to gain understanding of your perspective. You have questioned me about where I'm seeing sexism, I answer you and ask some questions of my own. Dialogue, see? If you're done, say the word.

I don't know what you mean by "Ur issue. not mine."

you accused me of sexism. lets get things into perspective. I am not sexist. I will equally judge all teens because I choose to. everyone judges, i accept the fact.

When I meet a teen on an individual basis, then I will mold an opinion about that specific teen as to how respectful they are of my son or daughter and the rules we have set up for our house.

If I find a girl in my sons room after hours there would be just as much hell to pay as if there was a boy in my daughters.


you call me a sexist. I am an equalist and a realist.
Yoshua's Avatar Yoshua 11:50 PM 06-22-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Houdini
I am going to jump in here and say pre-18 my crew are my responsibility, so I will do whatever is I deem necessary to ensure their safety. Each household is different and I don't expect everyone would agree with my decision; however, that is the beauty of it.....the decision is mine to make.

/agreed 100%

even though my comment was made in jest and no one caught it.


*edit and btw, just got done watching the bourne supremecy.
Houdini's Avatar Houdini 12:10 AM 06-23-2006
Yoshua

OT.....Do you know where he is???
Dawn38's Avatar Dawn38 12:15 AM 06-23-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshua

When I meet a teen on an individual basis, then I will mold an opinion about that specific teen as to how respectful they are of my son or daughter and the rules we have set up for our house.

If I find a girl in my sons room after hours there would be just as much hell to pay as if there was a boy in my daughter's room.

ITA Yoshua!
secretresistance's Avatar secretresistance 12:16 AM 06-23-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshua
you accused me of sexism. lets get things into perspective. I am not sexist. I will equally judge all teens because I choose to. everyone judges, i accept the fact.
Again, you seemed to be implying that your judgment of male teenagers is driven by the behavior and mindset of your peers during your teenage years. Is that or is that not accurate? I only work so hard at an answer for this because wouldn't such a basis for your judgment fall right into your preferred definition of sexism?
Quote:
Attitudes, conditions, or behaviors that promote stereotyping of social roles based on gender.
I must add that this is not the first thread where I have seen you make grand and sweeping proclamations about human males as a group, either.:

Again I will ask: Are you suspicious of teenage girls for different reasons than you are suspicious of teenage boys?

Quote:
When I meet a teen on an individual basis, then I will mold an opinion about that specific teen as to how respectful they are of my son or daughter and the rules we have set up for our house.
See, this is a different tune than you were singing earlier. Which is it? :
Houdini's Avatar Houdini 12:22 AM 06-23-2006
I am suspicious of everyone when I first meet them. I don't care if you are a teen or an adult. I reserve the right to be suspicious until I am shown otherwise.
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