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#241 of 257 Old 06-23-2006, 05:49 PM
 
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My friend was educated about sex. I don't know if was from her parents or not. But, she talked to me about it a lot (so did my mom) and she knew what she was talking about. The boyfriend that she cut classes for was a long-term boyfriend, not a single date or anything. They lived together for a couple of years after high school, too. I knew her very well, and as far as I can tell, she had a high sex drive, and got tired of her parents trying to tell her who was an acceptable date...period.

I can't imagine how I would have reacted if I'd been told I wasn't allowed to date. I really can't. How on earth can you "allow" or "not allow" your child to form relationships with people?

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#242 of 257 Old 06-23-2006, 06:24 PM
 
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I guess I was close enough to my parents that I didn't feel the need to disobey. I knew they wanted what was best. It did bug me sometimes, but I really had no interest in dating until I was 16. I dated a few guys before I met my husband. I can't imagine letting my child make their own decision about something as life-altering as a sexual relationship. I remember how hard it was to remain a virgin and not give in to the sexual pressures felt by myself as well as my boyfriend. I firmly believe that placing yourself in a situation where you are always alone with someone you are attracted to only increases the odds of a sexual relationship forming. Whether you regret the action later or not, it is best not to place yourself in the situation to begin with.

Rebecca wife of Megan...moms to six crazy kiddos! Seth (15), Madison (13), Zachary (12), Trevor (12), Alex (10), and Nicholas (9)
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#243 of 257 Old 06-23-2006, 06:36 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Houdini
By all means add your voice if you find it offensive. Just don't expect that all of us agree the joke was sexist.
I realllllllly so much do not hold that expectation. Realllllllly.
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#244 of 257 Old 06-23-2006, 06:43 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Houdini
I guess I was close enough to my parents that I didn't feel the need to disobey. I knew they wanted what was best. It did bug me sometimes, but I really had no interest in dating until I was 16. I dated a few guys before I met my husband.
I don't think the "disobedience" necessarily has anything to do with how close you are to your parents. Speaking for myself, my sexuality is a lot more complicated than "mom said no".

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I can't imagine letting my child make their own decision about something as life-altering as a sexual relationship.
umm...they do make their own decision. Except those people whose first sexual experience is rape (date or otherwise), we all make our own decision about a sexual relationship. Of course, the decision we make is affected by our parents - the relationship we have with them, the values they taught us, etc. But, we all make that decision for ourselves. The idea of someone deciding when somebody else is ready for a sexual relationship gives me the creeps. That was my decision to make, and it will be ds1's decision to make, and dd's decision to make, and ds2's decision to make. I hope they make wise choices and remember the things we've talked about over the years. But, it's still not my decision to make.

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I remember how hard it was to remain a virgin and not give in to the sexual pressures felt by myself as well as my boyfriend. I firmly believe that placing yourself in a situation where you are always alone with someone you are attracted to only increases the odds of a sexual relationship forming. Whether you regret the action later or not, it is best not to place yourself in the situation to begin with.
Best until when? When you're 16? When you're 18? When you're 22? When you're married? Eventually, most people are going to form a sexual relationship with somebody - and, eventually, that's going to be best for that person. Whether the first sexual relationship they form is at a time when that's the best thing for them or not...soooo many variables.

I was ready for the sexual relationship I had with my ex...at 16. I knew girls who waited until they were 18 or 19, and still weren't really ready when they became sexually active. These things vary wildly from one person to the next. I know two men who remained virgins into their 20's. They both regret that. I lost my virginity at 15, and don't regret it. So - what's "best"?

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#245 of 257 Old 06-23-2006, 06:50 PM
 
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Originally Posted by georgiacanuck
i have seen that you have gotten the joke i hope you were wearing your helmets while you were getting bashed over the head with comments nobody knows anybody else its the internet yet it surprises me how people can make assumptions about how we raise our children
When I speak here, on MDC, I talk about how I raise my kids and how my family works. It's not perfect by any means, but it's who we are. So for those people in this thread who have talked about what they have and/or will do in regard to thier daughter dating. It's not an assumption if someone is telling me "This is what we do." or "This is what we have done".


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...and maybe when my step daughters dates show up i will be cleaning my husbands gun when her date walks in the door ..nobody has threatened anybodies sons...we arent going to hurt them...
To me the point of the gun is to imply that you have weapons that you could potentially use if someone (teen boy) does something you don't like. We all know what guns do, and that is why the "joke" works (for those it works for anyway). Gun= a threat of pain etc. That is a threat to me. If a warning was all you were doing you could just give a verbal warning or discuss what you wanted.

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to girls under 16 yes they damn well better have supervision ...saying dont they have any say in the matter...in my opinion NO they dont...thats the problem with the kids today they are given free reign with their lives ....ohh because mommy wants to be their friend...dont upset them .i dont care if i am considered the mother from hell..we are the parents we make the rules..not the other way around..
My family doesn't work this way at all. We discuss and we take all members of family & their opinions seriously. I am my kids' friend, and then some. From time to time we upset each other because we are human, but we apologize and try to move on. We all make the "rules" in my family. I respect that this is not your way, but I do not agree that "that's the problem with the kids today."

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#246 of 257 Old 06-23-2006, 07:27 PM
 
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I'm really having an issue understanding how some things seem to be taken so personally here. It could be just as simple as differences in temperament, but I'm having trouble seeing just what exactly has been so attacking from me or the offended-by-this-joke faction. All I'm really interested in is discussion, and it's disappointing to see things devolve into defensiveness, snarkiness and sniping.

Maybe I'm too new to message board dynamics, but what's with the drama? Why can't we just talk, debate, discuss?

I apologize if my observation and discussion of sexist humor or ideology makes anyone feel as if I have labeled them or disparaged their character, but I really think if you take a second look you'll see that it just hasn't been personal at all.
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#247 of 257 Old 06-23-2006, 07:30 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Storm Bride
These things vary wildly from one person to the next. I know two men who remained virgins into their 20's. They both regret that. I lost my virginity at 15, and don't regret it. So - what's "best"?
In my circle of friends most of us were virgins until marriage. The ones who waited until marriage never had regrets. I have only been in one sexual relationship (with my husband) and the only regret I have is we didn't wait until marriage. I am guessing we won't agree on any of this; therefore, I think it is best to agree that we disagree. No point in going round and round about issues that neither of us are willing to compromise on.

Rebecca wife of Megan...moms to six crazy kiddos! Seth (15), Madison (13), Zachary (12), Trevor (12), Alex (10), and Nicholas (9)
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#248 of 257 Old 06-23-2006, 07:31 PM
 
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Originally Posted by secretresistance
I'm really having an issue understanding how some things seem to be taken so personally here. It could be just as simple as differences in temperament, but I'm having trouble seeing just what exactly has been so attacking from me or the offended-by-this-joke faction. All I'm really interested in is discussion, and it's disappointing to see things devolve into defensiveness, snarkiness and sniping.

Maybe I'm too new to message board dynamics, but what's with the drama? Why can't we just talk, debate, discuss?

I apologize if my observation and discussion of sexist humor or ideology makes anyone feel as if I have labeled them or disparaged their character, but I really think if you take a second look you'll see that it just hasn't been personal at all.
Just wondering where your posts have been taken personally. Not being snarky, just curious.

Rebecca wife of Megan...moms to six crazy kiddos! Seth (15), Madison (13), Zachary (12), Trevor (12), Alex (10), and Nicholas (9)
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#249 of 257 Old 06-23-2006, 07:32 PM
 
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its not just here to be honest.


Alot of times in life when someone's thoughts/ideas/emotions/actions are challenged, even if it is indirectly, people take it personally as if someone doesn't agree with them.



I agree full heartedly with Houdini on just about everything we have talked about.


But that doesn't mean I believe those of you who disagree with us are wrong, just different.


If your actions were hurtful to your children, in my opinion, i would possibly speak up.

Just as alot of you are. However in my opinion my actions would not be hurtful, and in the eyes of the law it would be true. There is no law stating I can not set rules for my household to protect my children as I see fit so long as I am not hurting them (in the eyes of the law)



I don't see my rules as hurtful, and when the time comes if my child disagrees with me, I hope to have an open honest relationship with them so they can come to me and discuss the situation and potential comprimises.


But people coming on here telling me I am wrong? you are not in my life, it doesnt really affect me, and in the end, we will see who is right. Possibly both of us are, just using different methods.

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#250 of 257 Old 06-23-2006, 07:37 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Yoshua
its not just here to be honest.


Alot of times in life when someone's thoughts/ideas/emotions/actions are challenged, even if it is indirectly, people take it personally as if someone doesn't agree with them.



I agree full heartedly with Houdini on just about everything we have talked about.


But that doesn't mean I believe those of you who disagree with us are wrong, just different.


If your actions were hurtful to your children, in my opinion, i would possibly speak up.

Just as alot of you are. However in my opinion my actions would not be hurtful, and in the eyes of the law it would be true. There is no law stating I can not set rules for my household to protect my children as I see fit so long as I am not hurting them (in the eyes of the law)



I don't see my rules as hurtful, and when the time comes if my child disagrees with me, I hope to have an open honest relationship with them so they can come to me and discuss the situation and potential comprimises.


But people coming on here telling me I am wrong? you are not in my life, it doesnt really affect me, and in the end, we will see who is right. Possibly both of us are, just using different methods.

Rebecca wife of Megan...moms to six crazy kiddos! Seth (15), Madison (13), Zachary (12), Trevor (12), Alex (10), and Nicholas (9)
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#251 of 257 Old 06-23-2006, 07:38 PM
 
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Originally Posted by secretresistance
I'm really having an issue understanding how some things seem to be taken so personally here. It could be just as simple as differences in temperament, but I'm having trouble seeing just what exactly has been so attacking from me or the offended-by-this-joke faction. All I'm really interested in is discussion, and it's disappointing to see things devolve into defensiveness, snarkiness and sniping.

Maybe I'm too new to message board dynamics, but what's with the drama? Why can't we just talk, debate, discuss?

I apologize if my observation and discussion of sexist humor or ideology makes anyone feel as if I have labeled them or disparaged their character, but I really think if you take a second look you'll see that it just hasn't been personal at all.
I tried to highlight just one part for emphasis, but it was all so spot on for me. I agree. I suppose emotions run high when we feel passionate about something, but in general I am not angry in these discussions. I am all about debating and talking and examining. I am not about the bickering.

"The true measure of a man is how he treats a man who can do him absolutely no good."
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#252 of 257 Old 06-23-2006, 07:43 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Houdini
Just wondering where your posts have been taken personally. Not being snarky, just curious.
I don't mean to imply that anyone has singled me out, but to speak more of how hurt the OP seems to be by some people being offended, whether it's just me or not. As someone who has been vocal on this thread, I thought I would try to clarify my position to possibly assuage hurt feelings. I feel both regret and confusion if she is indeed hurt or upset.
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#253 of 257 Old 06-23-2006, 07:46 PM
 
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Originally Posted by secretresistance
I don't mean to imply that anyone has singled me out, but to speak more of how hurt the OP seems to be by some people being offended, whether it's just me or not. As someone who has been vocal on this thread, I thought I would try to clarify my position to possibly assuage hurt feelings. I feel both regret and confusion if she is indeed hurt or upset.

well that can be explained that she got an unexpected reaction.


She assumed everyone would just get a quick laugh from the joke, she didnt expect people to start calling the joke Sexist.


If you call her joke sexist it can be internalized to believe that you think she herself is sexist, which may or may not be true, but i can easily see how that can jump from a-b-c.


She expected everyone to have fun, it's obvious that some people did not.

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#254 of 257 Old 06-23-2006, 07:51 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Yoshua
its not just here to be honest.
If that's in reference to my incredulence at message board drama, then I'm sure you're right.
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Alot of times in life when someone's thoughts/ideas/emotions/actions are challenged, even if it is indirectly, people take it personally as if someone doesn't agree with them.
I've noticed. It's so far from how I operate that I have a hard time getting the concept. I have to wonder if things have to, or should be this way though.
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I agree full heartedly with Houdini on just about everything we have talked about.
Right on. I have to admit however, that I don't have a good handle on exactly what the reality of your feelings about this issue are, what with all the back and forth about what's serious to you and what isn't. :
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But that doesn't mean I believe those of you who disagree with us are wrong, just different.
That's pretty much where I'm coming from as well, which is another reason why I don't understand what I see as defensiveness or upset.
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If your actions were hurtful to your children, in my opinion, i would possibly speak up.

Just as alot of you are. However in my opinion my actions would not be hurtful, and in the eyes of the law it would be true. There is no law stating I can not set rules for my household to protect my children as I see fit so long as I am not hurting them (in the eyes of the law)

I don't see my rules as hurtful, and when the time comes if my child disagrees with me, I hope to have an open honest relationship with them so they can come to me and discuss the situation and potential comprimises.

But people coming on here telling me I am wrong? you are not in my life, it doesnt really affect me, and in the end, we will see who is right. Possibly both of us are, just using different methods.
That's all just fine with me, but it's statements like in this last quoted portion that make me feel like my opinions on this issue are being taken more personally than is my intention. I'm not interested in discussing you as a person or as a parent. I'm pretty sure I've stuck with discussion of your ideas, with a big side of semantics.
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#255 of 257 Old 06-23-2006, 07:57 PM
 
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Originally Posted by UnschoolnMa
I tried to highlight just one part for emphasis, but it was all so spot on for me. I agree. I suppose emotions run high when we feel passionate about something, but in general I am not angry in these discussions. I am all about debating and talking and examining. I am not about the bickering.
After years of being a lurker, I have to tell you that I feel appropriately radical to be aligned with you!
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#256 of 257 Old 06-23-2006, 08:00 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Yoshua
well that can be explained that she got an unexpected reaction.

She assumed everyone would just get a quick laugh from the joke, she didnt expect people to start calling the joke Sexist.

If you call her joke sexist it can be internalized to believe that you think she herself is sexist, which may or may not be true, but i can easily see how that can jump from a-b-c.

She expected everyone to have fun, it's obvious that some people did not.
I've theorized as much. I just don't naturally understand that process from a to c.
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#257 of 257 Old 06-25-2006, 10:27 PM
 
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