forced bra wearing?-updates pg. 5 and 7 - Page 5 - Mothering Forums

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#121 of 168 Old 09-13-2006, 08:26 AM
 
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Gotta respond

OP, you were very nicely restrained in your meeting with DDs teacher. I would have had her a$$. How dare anyone make a demand like she did!

I find it disturbing that our developing girls are being looked at and considered a potential sexual problem. A bra will not turn our children into socially appropriate women.

The problem will lie with how we deal with young boys reactions to the female body. Teaching THEM respect is the issue.

My 10y/o dd is not allowed to were belly shirts or any other (what I consider to be) provocative clothing, but she will NEVER be asked to wear a bra. I do buy them for her, but she certainly does not have to wear them. I do not find unrestrained breasts to be anyones business but the bearers.

It is appropriate to cover your breasts(when there is not a baby attached) what they are covered with is a personal choice. No bra necessary.

The first boy (or girl) who bothers my child about her breasts will be called on his/her inappropriate behavior.

BTW, I wear a bra.............by choice.

proverbs 29:7 the righteous care about justice for the poor, but the wicked have no such concern.

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#122 of 168 Old 09-13-2006, 04:07 PM
 
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How old is your dd teacher? She sounds old...

I think that this is wierd anyway...I can't imagine my dd teacher telling me she has to wear a bra...

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#123 of 168 Old 09-13-2006, 05:23 PM
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Nankay, I think you handled the teacher great Her reasoning "It's just a basic appropriate clothing/hygiene thing." reminds me of a house tour I went on over the summer. The original occupants people born from the 1880's or so. The house was mostly original down to original rugs, furniture, plates, curtains and of the sorts. A number of items in the house gave me the heebie jeepies but none more than the corsets I would no sooner require my dd to wear a bra than a corset. Just because many people wear bras, does not make it the right thing to do for everyone. And yes, so what if her nipples show? Depending on how you're made, a bra won't hide that. How about requiring boys and men to wear cups because you can make our their penis though their pants... not that I look I wish we could get to a point where as a whole we recognize the beauty of our bodies, both men and women, with no shame of the shapes and curves that cover us. We're all beautiful (you too pandora ) Maybe the teacher needs to be reminded she might be overstepping her boundies, however good intention or not unless she wouldn't mind you telling her how to dress.
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#124 of 168 Old 09-13-2006, 05:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mamaofthree
Ok that was a bit off topic. Still, a bra will not stop a boy who wants to grab up on a girl. It isn't a shield. They can still grab the boob. And I am sure it would be just as tramatizing with or without a bra to have some *ss grab you breasts as an 11 year old. That being said... you have again put the blame/responsiblity on the girl to keep from being molested by a boy instead of society teaching boys that that sort of thing is just plain wrong. This sort of change will not happen over night, but it will never happen if we burry our heads in the sand and tell our daughters to cover up.H
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#125 of 168 Old 09-13-2006, 11:44 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I had dd in for her annual physical and I must say we have the coolest ped. in the world. I brought up the teacher's note and she was PO'd She said "there's no evidence that a bra is EVER necessary! That's sooo not any of her business! Do you want me to write a note?! " and "I am angry about that for you!"
Wow...hmm..I should have asked if she was posting on this board.

My DH saw the note but didn't say anything to me until tonight. He was waiting for my reaction. HE was PO'd too. Before I said anything, he said, "That's way out of her area to say anything like that, isn't it?! Is that any of her business??"

YAY hubby!
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#126 of 168 Old 09-14-2006, 01:39 AM
 
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WOOT I'm glad you are getting support IRL too with this. YEA hubby and Dr!
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#127 of 168 Old 09-14-2006, 09:58 AM
 
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What Arduinna said!
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#128 of 168 Old 09-14-2006, 05:55 PM
 
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You have an awsome doctor! I would have had her write a note though... I hate it when people really think that they can actually have any say in matters that don't concern them..then have the audacity to insist they have the right?? Oy...:

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#129 of 168 Old 09-19-2006, 09:23 PM
 
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Nankay, you handled the matter wonderfully!

I can't believe we are even having a discussion like this. Look, I am a 40G. I wear a bra for my own personal comfort--I don't really care for the way it feels when they swing from side to side and out and in and... well, you get the idea. Anyway, it would be wholly inappropriate for me to get all up into the bra wearing habits of other people. Seriously, when are we going to start minding our own business? We should all just start going around shirtless. That would take the mystery (and hence the sexuality) out of breasts, and we could all just get on with our lives. Hey, maybe if I'd started out going shirtless when I went from no bra to double D's in the space of a month, I wouldn't care about my hanging low, swinging slow boobies--I wouldn't feel like they have to be tamed and caged? Hmm... Now there's a concept!

PS--> This whole discussion has made me SO glad we're homeschooling!!!
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#130 of 168 Old 09-20-2006, 07:08 AM
 
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Oh good grief, I cannot believe we are havingthis discussion. Did I turn on a time machine to back to the 1800'S instead of my computer this morning?

For the record I wear a bra - becuase I WANT to. I'm 36DD and I find them comfortable and kinda sexy but I would never ever say to any women be she 11 or 101 that she NEEDS to wear a bra.
Congratulations Nankey on handling it so well. I think I would have lost my cool.
The teacher stepped WAY outta line there. I mean would she fee the need to comment on whether the girl should use tampons, pads or a Diva cup.
I mean I have toenails and no one tells me I need to wear toenail polish!

I agree thoroughly with MollyKatsmom on what she said with regard to this - my thoughts exactly but you put it so much more eloquently than I could.

Lets face it, boys are going to be stimulated by girls with bra's, without bras, by women on TV, in magazines - even by an attractive looking young teacher.
The idea of making girls responsible, by what they wear for a boys lack of control (AND HOPEFULLY THEY WILL LEARN CONTROL) truley truely angers me :
Here in Ireland, certain sectors of society held women as "moral guardians" as certain men "could not control their urges".
Thankfully we have thrown of the shackels of that particular sickness of attitude.
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#131 of 168 Old 09-20-2006, 07:34 AM
 
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I would really speak to the Principal. This is inappropriate of the teacher, and many parents might not handle it as well as you did. IMO this teacher overstepped the boundaries, especially in how it was handled. I could even see that if there was some reason for it, gently mentioning something about bra-wearing as a suggestion at a parent-teacher conference or in a phone call to you, as part of a discussion about your DD (something along the lines of "I notice that Suzie is reluctant to participate in gym class lately, and in my experience many girls who have started developing breasts feel more comfortable when they wear a bra.") But to just say that one is required is over the line, and sending a note home for something like that is just very tactless and wrong.
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#132 of 168 Old 09-20-2006, 08:49 PM
 
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Nan, that is awesome that your doctor offered to write a note!
And BTW in my experience in elementary school the girls wearing bras were more harrased and injured by boys who thought it funny to snap their bras!

Mom of 5 boys- 13, 10, 8, 2 : and newbie Aug. 24th, '09 . babywearing advocate . Cook, baker, homemaker, wife to a man with another woman's kidney (live altruistic, unknown donor).
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#133 of 168 Old 09-20-2006, 09:07 PM
 
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It is the Royal We in the teacher's response that really bugs me. She shouldn't get to decide what is appropriate undergarments for everyone based on what she and her daughters might wear.

Also, the unhygienic thing is just so asurd that it doesn't bother me at all. It is like the women at Victoria's Secret telling the mothers that it is unhygienic to nurse in the fitting room (which is also absurd)...only I'm pretty sure your daughter's breasts aren't shooting out liquid or anything else. I'm just assuming here that they don't shoot laser beams?
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#134 of 168 Old 09-21-2006, 01:38 AM
 
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What a rude thing to do. My friend was harrassed in high school to wear a bra BY THE SECURITY GUARDS!!! It was because she was "weird" adn "unattractive" and shy. If i didnt wear a bra with my DD breasts they didnt say a word. So me and my friends started taking our bras off under our clothes IN FRONT OF the security guards and tying them to our backpacks. They didnt DARE say a word to me. We didnt even think to take it to the admin. Within 2 weeks they were so freaked out by our brazen tude they stopped bugging her.

FTR i have worn a bra nearly 24/7 since i was about 10 years old. I have big breasts and they are more comfy that way BUT i soooo wish i could go braless and am envious of anyone who does.
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#135 of 168 Old 09-21-2006, 01:55 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm Bride View Post
Coming from another early developer, who wore a bra from the moment they started to appear, a bra does diddly-squat to prevent this. I was poked in the breasts, I had my bra snapped, I had a boy point out (loudly) that my "tits were lopsided" at lunch time. I was followed around by two boys saying "I want your body" and reaching for me. I had boys assume that I was "easy", because I had a big chest. I always wore a bra.

.
I got called "stuffer" all through 6th grade - i had a c cup. The last day i flashed the group of "popular" boys and told them "stuff this". They were terrified of me for the rest of midschool. I was also assumed to be "easy" because of my large chest. Even as a virgin in 10th grade everyone was sure i was a slut because of my boobs. I got my bra snapped all the freaking time too.
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#136 of 168 Old 09-26-2006, 02:27 PM
 
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I personally wear a bra in public... I'm just way more comfortable that way. But I see no reason what-so-ever that a small chested 11 year old would NEED a bra.

HOWEVER, that being said, my school made a rule while I was in Jr. High that girls must wear bras. Almost every girl did anyway because we had to "dress out" for PE and well, no one wanted to be totally naked when they changed, kwim? But anyway, this one group of girls (who were far from 'innocent' like your 11yo DD is I'm sure) decided that they would get a rise out of everyone by going to school sans bra with silk shirts. They also made a point to walk around school "just so" to get as much booby-bounce as they could out of it. And actually, I think they made the other girls madder than they turned the boys on and it caused a lot of fights because of jealousy. ALL these girls wanted to do was MAKE people think they were easy because for some reason that was cool where I went to school. It had nothing to do with comfort or because its more natural.

Anyway, I just wanted to point out that there is a reason that a school may enforce this rule. (Though, like I said, they shouldn't be saying anything to an 11yo with tiny boobs.) And, I didn't wear a bra to school even after that rule when we didn't have to dress out. I didn't get caught though because you couldn't tell one way or the other on me!

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#137 of 168 Old 09-26-2006, 02:47 PM
 
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Originally Posted by urchin_grey View Post
But I see no reason what-so-ever that a small chested 11 year old would NEED a bra.

(Though, like I said, they shouldn't be saying anything to an 11yo with tiny boobs.)

I dont' believe the OP said what size her daughter was. What makes you think an 11 year old has tiny boobs? I wore a 38 C when I was 11.
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#138 of 168 Old 09-26-2006, 02:51 PM
 
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Originally Posted by urchin_grey View Post

Anyway, I just wanted to point out that there is a reason that a school may enforce this rule. (Though, like I said, they shouldn't be saying anything to an 11yo with tiny boobs.) And, I didn't wear a bra to school even after that rule when we didn't have to dress out. I didn't get caught though because you couldn't tell one way or the other on me!

Seems to me like in your example, the problems were CAUSED by the school creating a "you must wear a bra" rule.

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#139 of 168 Old 09-26-2006, 02:57 PM
 
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If it comes up again, I'd let the principal in on everything. I can't even imagine a teacher having the audacity to think they have a say in the matter.:

Good for you for sticking up for your daughter!

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#140 of 168 Old 09-27-2006, 04:23 AM
 
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Originally Posted by annettemarie View Post
Seems to me like in your example, the problems were CAUSED by the school creating a "you must wear a bra" rule.
No, THEY did it before the rule was made. *I* did it because I had NO boobs and you couldn't tell one way or the other on me.

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#141 of 168 Old 09-27-2006, 09:24 PM
 
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As a teenager, my school called my parents numerous times and asked to have me wear a bra and socks to school. My parents mentioned it to me and I said the teachers could kiss my ass before I would wear a bra.
And I purposely wore clogs in the snow without socks to annoy everyone since my feet were not cold![

Hang on to your ideals and do not rush your child to grow up because the world around her wants her to grow up too fast.
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#142 of 168 Old 09-28-2006, 02:01 PM
 
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Bras were interesting to me when I first got one. Then, through most of high school, I don't think I ever wore one. Didn't need to and I referred to them as sweat collectors (still do). I have protruding nipple problem almost all the time, bra or no bra, except if I wear a padded bra, which will never happen because I HATE padded bras. On the weekends and holidays, I almost never wear a bra. Even at work sometimes, like today, I don't wear a bra; although I do try to be discreet with my nipple problem, crossing my arms or wearing dark colours.

It's amazing how this thread can go on and on about something so ridiculous.

Did we ever stop to think that not wearing a bra is actually good for breast health?? Well, it is.
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#143 of 168 Old 09-28-2006, 04:05 PM
 
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Good for you for sticking up for your daughter! That teacher was WAYYYY out of line and had no business sending a note home telling you what your daughter should and should not wear. Furthermore, saying "WE" wear bras when "WE" have breasts is overstepping her boundaries. Your daughter does not exist within her teacher's collective "we"

Your daughter should have the ability to choose whether or not she wants to wear a bra. That teacher has no business telling her otherwise!! I'd take this matter to the principal just so he/she knows what was said/done and that you felt it was entirely inappropriate.

To add to that, I actually worked in an office that required all women to wear "appropriate undergarments" and pantyhose every single day. I went commando and only wore knee-highs or trouser socks and they were never any the wiser. I did wear a bra because I feel very uncomfortable without one and even moreso when having to go up and down stairs all day long, as I had to do in that office. Had someone mentioned that they didn't think I was wearing underwear, they would have been in for it.... as they shouldn't be looking hard enough to notice. I'm certainly not one to sacrifice my personal comfort for the benefit of some jerk who wants to institute some stupid rule with regard to my lack of underwear ;p
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#144 of 168 Old 09-28-2006, 04:40 PM
 
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Sounds like you're handling it well. I would've lost my $hit if anyone tried to tell me or anyone else what kind of underwear to wear. I might be very uncomfortable with the way some kids dress, but the solution is talking about social issues and pressures not forcing anyone to do anything. And it doesen't matter WHY anyone does or does not want to wear something. big,small,comfort,discomfort, showing off,hiding,sexy,not sexy,other look, or not.....for the love of god. The bottom line is very simple to me, if we cannot teach women that their bodies are sacred and what they do with (on) them is thier buisiness and their business only then we make it harder for them to refuse unwanted sexual advances and less safe for them to speak out about assult.
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#145 of 168 Old 10-02-2006, 02:58 AM
 
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Maybe we should all just be sent back to our respective planets (mars/venus) so that this kind of thing doesn't become an issue.



I'm sorry you're dealing with this! Puberty is never an easy time, much less when your teacher is shining a spotlight right on an issue you'd rather didn't exist!


Puberty is that time when you start to wish you were just a kid again!

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#146 of 168 Old 10-02-2006, 03:12 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Hi! orginal poster, here....

The closest thing to policy on undergarments I could find was in the High School student handbook:

Students are expected to adhere to reasonable levels of cleanliness and modesty. Students are expected to wear clothing that is
appropriate to their age level and that does not disrupt the school or educational environment. Students are encouraged not to wear midriff blouses, bibs with sports bras, boxer shorts or any item of clothing without appropriate undergarments or with undergarments showing
.

Sooo.......encouraged not to, but not expressly forbidden from going braless.
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#147 of 168 Old 10-02-2006, 10:03 PM
 
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While I don't think that the teacher should be dictating what undergarments your daughter wears, I do think that you should consider how not wearing bras makes your daughter feel. It should be a "You are free to wear one or not wear one" kind of environment. You don't want her ridiculed. You don't want her embarrassed. A lot of it depends on your daughter. My dd would be mortified if someone could see the details of her breasts through her shirt. It might not bother other girls as much. Keep in mind that while not all kids are morons, plenty of them are cruel. I would not want to put my dd in a position where she would face public humiliation. Feminism is great. Bralessness is freedom. But, it can be freedom in college or beyond. It might not be the best battle for an 11 yod to face.
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#148 of 168 Old 10-02-2006, 10:23 PM
 
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She said in her first post that her daughter had bras, but was choosing not to wear them.
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#149 of 168 Old 10-02-2006, 10:41 PM
 
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I didn't read the whole thread but .... Hell I think the whole thing is ridiculous. Now we are so prudish as to have to have clothes under our clothes so that no one will suspect we are actually human underneath there and have tits like the rest of the world?: Breasts are breasts are breasts .... every body has them.

Anyway I would say honey wear what you want! In fact I would march into the school without a bra on myself (and I do NOT have small boobs) and let them know that unless my daughter is coming to school naked , its none of their business what she has on under her clothes. How dare they try to regular undergarments! :

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#150 of 168 Old 10-05-2006, 01:15 AM
 
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It is the Royal We in the teacher's response that really bugs me. She shouldn't get to decide what is appropriate undergarments for everyone based on what she and her daughters might wear.
Umm, yea..is she the "appropriate" master for the school? Does she line all the girls up and make a check by their name. "this one needs a bra, this one need to brush her hair" WTH?
Let me say that I would force my daughter to wear a bra to school. :
While she has what I would call large breast buds and not boobs, I find it a matter of modesty. She wears a lot of trendy, form fitting, shirts and the material is not very thick. I do think it is distracting. However, the note would have pushed me over the edge. I have issues with authority and couldn't make it through highschool because of it. I find myself fighting stupid crap like this all the time and I LOVE it because I am no longer the student and they are forced to actually listen. I can't stand the idea of a teacher telling her/me that my DD would HAVE to wear one. Nope, nada, noway! just because I feel it is appropriate to wear one, doesn't mean everyone else should. I know you really didn't ask for my personal opinion on wether a bra needs to be worn, I wanted you to know that even though I would (do) make my daughter wear a bra, I still feel it was wrong of the teacher to send the note home.
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