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#61 of 84 Old 01-12-2007, 06:05 PM
 
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I think it is rude unless the entire class is invited.

Mama to 9 so far:Mother of Joey (20), Dominick (13), Abigail (11), Angelo (8), Mylee (6), Delainey (3), Colton (2) and Baby 8 and Baby 9 coming sometime in July 2013.   If evolution were true, mothers would have three arms!

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#62 of 84 Old 01-12-2007, 06:19 PM
 
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Why would you feel insulted for that? Why would you assume that it was a pity invite?
Because if someone wants to invite me out for lunch, they would. They wouldn't wait until they were trying to invite someone else, and I was in the way.

Mind you - I'm not sure that would have occurred to me before reading this thread. I never accepted a lunch invitation from anyone at work, anyway - except for an occasional working lunch with my boss.

ETA: Reading that article someone posted really firmed up that feeling. I mean "I won't go unless Diana goes, too"...how humiliating!

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#63 of 84 Old 01-12-2007, 07:00 PM
 
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Didn't want to hijack the thread so I posted a spinoff:

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=594225

Pardon me while I puke.gif

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#64 of 84 Old 01-12-2007, 07:17 PM
 
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Wow...Didn't expect this kind of reaction to this thread.

When I was in school [Mind you, I just graduated HS four years ago]...People handed out invitations before/between/after class.

Generally, if you have a small group--People will KNOW it's your birthday, but the most they might say is 'Are you having a party?' [[and they never tried to invite themselves...thus ending any awkward situations.]] to which, I generally replied 'Not really, but we're going to the arcade/having cake/whatever...Come over!' [[What can I say, I didn't like leaving people out.]]

Although, I don't know how one particular party was handled. I think it was an 'invite the whole group' instance...And we QUICKLY learned that 'the whole group' was a very, very bad idea. Then again, the invite system for that party, so I've been told...Was my at-the-time 13 year old brother leaving voicemails on all my 16 or so invited friends answering machines LMAO. I imagine the 'invitation' went something like *mumble* 'Uhm, this is R, and I'm K's brother...and Uhm...we're uh...havin' a party...So uhm, if you wanna come...uhm...call us back. OK bye. *click*'

If it were me, I'd hand them out between classes. My school used to give us 4 minutes between classes. We all had a 'gathering spot' and everyone knew to meet there. Plenty of time to pass out invites.

But hey, that's just me.
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#65 of 84 Old 01-13-2007, 01:50 PM
 
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I remember this rule when I was in school. It was not a written rule but most kids mailed invites. My mom would not let me hand out invites in school. I rememeber as a child thinking that it was a really dumb rule that adults who did not understand school AT ALL made up just to be difficult. School was all about exclusion, cliques, and making people feel bad every single day. To take one tiny little thing like invites and make some sort of weird example out of it seemed really strange to me. The mean popular girl was not allowed to hurt the geek's feelings by handing out invites at school but was 100% "allowed" to make fun of geek's clothing, let all of her friends cut in front of geek in lunch line, make jokes about geek that geek does not even get, pick the same geek last every single day in gym class, etc...... IMO, if you send your kids to school this is part of the package. Every single kid is somewhere on the food chain and it has nothing to do with invites. It amazes me that adults forget this. I was luckily not one of the picked on kids, but I took my fair shair of torture from my "friends" and witnessed horrible things being done to kids every single day starting in 3rd grade up until graduation day. I also remember that none of us told any adults about this and I am sure it is the same now. This is one HUGE reason that we are homeschooling. School is by far the most emotionally brutal experience I have ever had (and this from a "popular" kid) and in no way resembles "real life". You take hundreds of people that are all the same age, throw them in a competative, largely unpoliced, and artificial environment for 6 hours a day, and this is what happens. Whether you mail the invites or not, every kid knows about the party and they all know who was not invited. You might as well put the invites on a bulletin board with the "you cannot come" list posted right along side. That info is already "public" anyway.
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#66 of 84 Old 01-13-2007, 02:54 PM - Thread Starter
 
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To take one tiny little thing like invites and make some sort of weird example out of it seemed really strange to me. The mean popular girl was not allowed to hurt the geek's feelings by handing out invites at school but was 100% "allowed" to make fun of geek's clothing, let all of her friends cut in front of geek in lunch line, make jokes about geek that geek does not even get, pick the same geek last every single day in gym class, etc...... IMO, if you send your kids to school this is part of the package.
Hi Yooper,

I agree that school (this age in particular) is an arena for exclusion, hurt feelings and sometimes worse, but some of it can be avoided. Our school district enforces a very strict no-bully policy; without one in place would be a nightmare in itself. And if a child in our schools, whether it be elementary or at the high school level is harrassed on a daily basis, a complaint can be filed.

Where we live, bullying is not a part of the "package", and is dealt with! Again, it depends on ones school district. Thankfully, my daughter has never been bullied. Bullying is another post in itself, so I'll stop blabbering.

I agree that not all things can be avoided, such as the kid who gets picked last in gym, but you had mentioned that while the kid may not be able to hurt the "geeks" feelings by handing out the invites, they are able to tease the kid in other ways. This is true, it doesn't stop at the invite, but I will say this, it's ultimately up to the way parents and their own children operate in showing kindness to others in general that makes the difference.
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#67 of 84 Old 01-13-2007, 05:39 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Yooper View Post
School was all about exclusion, cliques, and making people feel bad every single day. To take one tiny little thing like invites and make some sort of weird example out of it seemed really strange to me. The mean popular girl was not allowed to hurt the geek's feelings by handing out invites at school but was 100% "allowed" to make fun of geek's clothing, let all of her friends cut in front of geek in lunch line, make jokes about geek that geek does not even get, pick the same geek last every single day in gym class, etc...... IMO, if you send your kids to school this is part of the package. Every single kid is somewhere on the food chain and it has nothing to do with invites. It amazes me that adults forget this. I was luckily not one of the picked on kids, but I took my fair shair of torture from my "friends" and witnessed horrible things being done to kids every single day starting in 3rd grade up until graduation day. I also remember that none of us told any adults about this and I am sure it is the same now. This is one HUGE reason that we are homeschooling. School is by far the most emotionally brutal experience I have ever had (and this from a "popular" kid).
I am torn between this being one of the saddest things I've read on MDC in years of being a member, and gratitude that my school wasn't like this. Wow. I'm really sorry that that was your experience.

This is quite a far ways off topic, but in response to the above, I saw some teasing take place over my years in school. There is a "food chain"; I'm not arguing that. But I don't believe school was about "making people feel bad every single day". I just can't get over how sad that that is a reality for someone.

I think the root of this thread is that we want our kids to be kind. Not being allowed to invite 25 kids to your party isn't because you want to exclude certain kids - it is about the house not being big enough to have that many! It isn't exclusion; it is reality of the situation. And it is kind to mail or email invites, and teach your kids not to discuss parties when at school. Just basic kindness - I am surprised that we don't all agree on at least that much.

And as to adults inviting to lunch or what have you - I am not hurt by C talking about her family's cruise with L. They are best friends and I wouldn't expect that they'd vacation with EVERY friend they have. What would hurt me is if C and I and L are walking on the treadmills at the gym and one asks the other if she wants to go to the coffee shop after. Hello??
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#68 of 84 Old 01-13-2007, 07:43 PM
 
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I am torn between this being one of the saddest things I've read on MDC in years of being a member, and gratitude that my school wasn't like this. Wow. I'm really sorry that that was your experience.

This is quite a far ways off topic, but in response to the above, I saw some teasing take place over my years in school. There is a "food chain"; I'm not arguing that. But I don't believe school was about "making people feel bad every single day". I just can't get over how sad that that is a reality for someone.
That was my reality. That was the reality of many of my friends. In fact, I've met more people who felt that way about it than didn't...even ones who were at the top of the food chain. The closest I ever felt to being a child abuser was the first day I dropped ds1 off at kindergarten...worse than the couple of times I lost it and spanked him when he was young...and those incidents ended with both of us crying on the floor.

School was hell. I graduated, and never even considered continuing with my education, because I spent every minute of grades 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 & 12 thinking "when do I get out of here?". The one thought that ran through my head whenever I had the razorblade hovering above my wrists was "no way in hell am I going to give them the satisfaction". That was reality. That was exclusion. Do you actually think that the teacher or a parent making someone give me an invitation to a birthday party would have seemed "kind"?

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I think the root of this thread is that we want our kids to be kind. Not being allowed to invite 25 kids to your party isn't because you want to exclude certain kids - it is about the house not being big enough to have that many!
umm...no, it's not. Not inviting 25 kids to my son's party was because my son wasn't that close to all 25 kids. He was close to a handful and wanted to celebrate with them.

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And as to adults inviting to lunch or what have you - I am not hurt by C talking about her family's cruise with L. They are best friends and I wouldn't expect that they'd vacation with EVERY friend they have. What would hurt me is if C and I and L are walking on the treadmills at the gym and one asks the other if she wants to go to the coffee shop after. Hello??
Hello, what? Why is lunch different? Why would anyone expect to be invited to lunch with best friends, just because they happen to be co-workers? I'm truly not getting why anyone would feel shut out or rejected by this...

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#69 of 84 Old 01-19-2007, 01:39 PM
 
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My family had a holiday party in early December (we called it a Festival of Sweets.....desserts only). I invited about four people I work with, and I gave them invitations at work.

No, I didn't gather the whole staff together and tell them, "I'm having a party but only inviting A, B, C and D." I gave each person their invitations discretely. I don't see why something similar couldn't be done in a classroom.

And no, I wasn't a "popular" kid with lots of friends. Honest to goodness....I can't recall ever attending a birthday party as a kid. Could be that people in our neck of the woods just didn't "do" birthday parties, because my parents didn't do them, either.
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#70 of 84 Old 01-19-2007, 04:16 PM
 
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Originally Posted by teastaigh View Post
It's rude.
It's bad manners.

By the way, adults do it all the time. I can't believe how these people talk about their BBQs or their girls-nights-outs in front of others on a regular basis. Presumedly "nice" and "socially well-adjusted" people have insider-conversations, excluding whomever else is in attendance and doesn't know the absent parties under discussion, etc.

It's also impolite to eat in front of others unless we have enough to share with everyone. I'm not talking about brown-bag lunch meetings at work. I'm talking about eating in class.

I was always taught not to discuss plans in front of anyone who wasn't included. I saw my parents model this too

My dad says that a truly classy person makes other people feel comfortable. Good manners are not to be taken lightly. I know I can work on my own and need reminders and improvement too.

peace,
teastaigh
I agree! Just a matter of COMMON COURTESY!
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#71 of 84 Old 01-19-2007, 04:23 PM
 
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I think it's sad and shouldn't be done. If there isn't an invitation for everyone in the class, they should be mailed.
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#72 of 84 Old 01-20-2007, 03:54 AM
 
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I really try to practice inclusivity and encourage this with my daughter. We have been and continue to particpate in anumber of different kind of groups and I can tell you that my expereince is that in most situations I have encountered a lot of exclusivity. We are currently on a travel volleyball team. We had the first tournament last weekend. There was group invites but also a lot of private type stuff. As this is a new team for us, I wasn't sure at first what was going on. I quickly learn who is "safe " and more open to talk to, get info from,etc. We don't do many parites. For my dd's 13th we mailed or hand gve invites. Two kids acutally showed up-it was nice . My daughter has many differnt type of kids calling her and we get a number of differnt kinds of invites. I try to teach her consideration. Like yesterday she was invited to a party and she chose to go to a movie. I encouraged her to thank her for the invite. This new volleyball team seems to be very social. My dd is an introvert. We will do the group stuff but will turn down private stuff depending on the situaiton.Shfe is going to a sleepover tonight with the volleyball team. Like last weekend at the tourney, she got invted to a movie and turned it down.
I try to be considerate and respectful in my dealings with others and not take personlly what I see is insensitviiy a lot. I do see my daughter as being very caring and open to new people that interest her. Sallie
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#73 of 84 Old 01-20-2007, 11:49 PM
 
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I'm sorry, but I think 12 year olds should be able to deal with the fact that not everyone is going to get invited to every party. I really don't see anything wrong with handing out invites in a classroom unless it's interfering with lesson time. The girls at my daughter's dance studio hand out party invitations all the time--same thing, really, as they are certainly not inviting every girl in every one of their classes to every party.
While I do agree with this in general, kids are mean. I have known everyone except for one girl in my class to be invited to a party. While the invitations were not distributed in class, believe me, it was all the talk that the WHOLE class (girls and boys) had been invited to the party, except for that one. Now imagine how badly she would have felt if all 21 other students received an invite in their school mailboxes, and she was the only one who didn't.

Also, this makes me think of the Valentine's Day rule of sending in Valentines for all of your classmates, or none. I once had a second grade class in which a little boy did make Valentines for everyone, but he made two for most students and just one for the few he wanted to make feel badly...Children often find ways to be mean to eachother and hurt feelings. If some rules at school can prevent some of this, I think that's a good thing. School should be an emotionally safe place; children can only learn their best if they are feeling safe.
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#74 of 84 Old 01-21-2007, 12:45 AM
 
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NO-I don't think it's fair at all and I am totally against it. Invite the entire class or mail out the invites. This is such a preventable way of unneccessarily hurting someones feelings. It is absolutely avoidable. I would talk to the teacher about it and perhaps the principal if nothing is done.
ITA. Of course it happened to all of us and it hurt our feelings. I dont want to teach my kids not to bother making a simple change to avoid hurting people's feelings. It;s so EASY to just hand them out privately and keep it quiet...why wouldn't you??
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#75 of 84 Old 01-22-2007, 12:47 PM
 
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While I know it doesn't change things really as far as excluding kids and such, I think it is rude to hand them out during class. I just do. Sure, I don't think my kids should have to invite kids who are not friends with them and I don't think that other kids should be hurt if they aren't invited to a party of a nonfriend, but I still think it is bad manners to hand out invites to a select few in a large group. I guess this is just what my mother taught me and it is the same lesson I plan on teaching my children. Little lessons like this help shape the sorts of manners they will have as adults and I would like for my children to be as polite as possible.

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#76 of 84 Old 01-22-2007, 01:21 PM
 
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I posted on another thread about this, but I'll say it again. Honestly, all the people who "don't get it" were probably fairly socially well adjusted people growing up who had friends. At least some friends. It may be hard to understand that there are children that don't have friends. There was a little girl in my class one year who had been abused in her past, was socialy terribly awkward, and to make matters worse, because of the past abuse, soiled herself in class. No one talked to her, no one sat near her at lunch. No one was her friend. There are children that are bullied and ignored and avoided by nearly everyone. I think it is a little much, even for a 12 year old, to be just told that life isn't fair and not to get hurt feelings when as the year goes on there are 20 birthday parties and she isn't invited to a single one of them. Oh, but she shouldn't expect to be, right, because those children aren't her friends.

This is exactly why I have a problem with inviting the whole class or all the girls.

This little girl, after being given the mandatory invite, had two options - Go or Dont. If she doesn't go, it was a wasteful in many ways. The invite was wasted, money was wasted, the little girl got her hopes up but declined because she knows she was not liked, etc. If she goes do you think all of a sudden everyone at the party will be her best chum? No way. She'll be treated the same way at the party as she is at school. Even if good watchful parents are around that wont change the way that she's treated by her classmates.

AND people feel required to bring gifts to a birthday party. That's also very wasteful. Classmates who don't know the birthday girl/boy will grab whatever toy strikes their fancy and it may or may not get played with. Just more materialistic junk laying around.
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#77 of 84 Old 01-22-2007, 08:34 PM
 
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This is exactly why I have a problem with inviting the whole class or all the girls.
The part I have a problem with is handing them out in class in front of everyone. I think if you do that, you should invite everyone. Otherwise, make the inviting discreet. That's all, it just seems like common courtesy to me.
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#78 of 84 Old 01-24-2007, 12:32 PM
 
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How does before school or after school change anything? Does another child feel less excluded if he sees an invitation change hands in the hallway?

Okay - never mind. I think I'll leave this one.

I do wonder, though - how long have these rules been in place at various schools? I'd never heard of it until someone mentioned it here a few months ago.

It's probably fine most of the time...but to the outcast ( I was one) it's awful because the mean girls gloat and flaunt it while they hand out the invitations and make snide remarks under their breat as they pass your seat. It's those nasty girls that ruined it for everyone else and made those rules necessary. I went to 11 or 12 different schools as a child.....every school I went to had girls that treated me like that.

edited to add: there were a few times that I was actually the ONLY kid NOT invited or the ONLY girl not invited.

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#79 of 84 Old 01-24-2007, 05:00 PM
 
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It's probably fine most of the time...but to the outcast ( I was one) it's awful because the mean girls gloat and flaunt it while they hand out the invitations and make snide remarks under their breat as they pass your seat. It's those nasty girls that ruined it for everyone else and made those rules necessary. I went to 11 or 12 different schools as a child.....every school I went to had girls that treated me like that.

edited to add: there were a few times that I was actually the ONLY kid NOT invited or the ONLY girl not invited.
If they went to that much effort to exclude you, do you really think that the rule would have stopped them? Would it have been any better if they'd made the pointed comments without the invitations, or handed them out in the hallway, but made sure you were there every time?

I can see where some of you are coming from about not teaching your kids exclusivity (although I still don't think that a child inviting their friends to their birthday is exactly being exclusive), but that's not the same thing as having a school rule about it, imo. You can't cure the mean kids by making rules about it. My son's school has all the "rules" about bullying, but what's going on there now is way worse than when I was there 20 years ago - and the rules weren't in place then. I'm not saying the rules make it worse, but I don't think they help.

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#80 of 84 Old 01-24-2007, 05:50 PM
 
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I think everyone needs to remember that even if seeing those invitations getting handed out hurts only one child, or makes them feel badly, then maybe that is a good enough reason not to do it.

Kids, at that age, are so insecure, and unsure of themselves - why give them another reason to feel like they are less fortunate, or less popular etc.

The other issue is what are you teaching your child by not pointing out that this could potentially hurt someone. Seizing this as a perfect learning opportunity to teach compassion maybe the best way to approach the subject. Kids don't come to these morals all on their own - they learn by example from the adults around them.
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#81 of 84 Old 01-24-2007, 06:10 PM
 
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I really, really, really don't get why this is even an issue. Why don't people just mail the invitations? This is what we ALWAYS did in my family. I think it would be terribly rude to hand out invitations in a room full of people and only invite some of them.

Example: I'm at the company party. I've decided to have a little party in a few weeks to celebrate finally getting rid of that nasty toe fungus I had for seventeen years. I hand out seven Fungus-Free invites to those people I want at my Fungus-Free party. That's just rude! And I think it's equally rude if I'm a secretary or if I'm the president of the company, but if I'm the president I probably care much less about the feelings of those who aren't getting invited than if I'm a secretary.

But it's not so much about "hurt feelings" as it is about common courtesy. Kids will always get hurt feelings and if I'm not the host and I hear about the party a week later at work I'll realize I wasn't invited to the Fungus-Free bash. Darn, that might make me feel bad. But that's life. Common courtesy might spare a few feelings, but the main point is that it's impolite to do anything but mail invitations if you're going to only invite certain people. And quite honestly, some kids enjoy singling out their "favorites" with an invite. I think it's inappropriate to encourage that by not simply mailing invitations.

I never had any trouble obtaining mailing addresses for my friends - they were published in the school phone/address book. Before we had one of those, I knew their last names and if they were coming to my house for a party, my mom generally knew their parents. It isn't a big challenge to collect a few addresses, IMO.

People also never RSVP, and that really gets my goat too! It's so impolite, when you're invited, to fail to respond to the host to let him/her know whether you're coming or not. But that's a different vent!

Julia
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#82 of 84 Old 01-24-2007, 06:53 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Romana9+2 View Post

I never had any trouble obtaining mailing addresses for my friends - they were published in the school phone/address book. Before we had one of those, I knew their last names and if they were coming to my house for a party, my mom generally knew their parents. It isn't a big challenge to collect a few addresses, IMO.

It really is a big challenge for a kindergartener to know his friend's last names and get addresses from children who don't even know their own phone numbers. Luckily the teacher quietly slipped invites into backpacks for me. Publishing everyone in a directory without permission would be a violation of privacy. We tried to get one together for my son's kindergarten class and we couldn't get anyone to return the slip to allow their number in the book. Usually a teach is willing to help you find a way to be discreet.

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#83 of 84 Old 01-24-2007, 07:36 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Romana9+2 View Post
I really, really, really don't get why this is even an issue. Why don't people just mail the invitations? This is what we ALWAYS did in my family. I think it would be terribly rude to hand out invitations in a room full of people and only invite some of them.
It's an issue for several reasons. As I've mentioned in other threads on this subject (and maybe even in this one), when ds1 was little, I couldn't afford to mail invitations. I was scrounging change to buy cake mix and balloons for the party in the first place. Postage was out of the question.

I've also never heard of or seen children mailing out invitations to parties. DS1 has probably been invited to about 50 parties since kindergarten, and all of the invititations been handed out at school. Until I came here, and found about this rule in some schools, I'd never heard of doing it any other way. I honestly would have wondered a little about the family if I'd received an invitation in the mail for a kindergarten party...like maybe they were rich or really "upper class" or something, and would ds1 even be comfortable at their party. (At least now I know not to worry about that - it's a difference in perception, and I suspect it's at least partly regional.)

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Common courtesy might spare a few feelings, but the main point is that it's impolite to do anything but mail invitations if you're going to only invite certain people. And quite honestly, some kids enjoy singling out their "favorites" with an invite. I think it's inappropriate to encourage that by not simply mailing invitations.
I think the part I bolded is why I have so much trouble with this whole concept. Who on earth is talking about "singling out their favourites"? I'm talking about kids inviting their friends to their birthday party. I'm not sure why anyone would think that someone would want to celebrate with someone else just because they happened to be in the same class at school. I certainly don't see it as having anything to do with picking favourites. If my son were "singling out favourites" in the sense this thread is talking about, the way he chose to deliver invitations is the least of the problems we'd be having.

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I never had any trouble obtaining mailing addresses for my friends - they were published in the school phone/address book. Before we had one of those, I knew their last names and if they were coming to my house for a party, my mom generally knew their parents. It isn't a big challenge to collect a few addresses, IMO.
I knew several of ds1's friend's last names in kindergarten and grade one. I didn't know their parent's last names. DS1 is now in grade eight...I know his best friend's full name, and his dad's full name, and his mom's name, and his mom's boyfriend's name, and I know all their phone numbers and addresses - but I just realized that I have no clue what his mom's last name is. They've been "best friends" for three years. I just found out that another friend's last name has changed - I don't know when, but I've known him and his mom since the boys were in kindergarten. Our schools don't do a directory.

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People also never RSVP, and that really gets my goat too! It's so impolite, when you're invited, to fail to respond to the host to let him/her know whether you're coming or not. But that's a different vent!
Yeah - that's a real PITA. I actually went to one of ds1's friends houses on the day of the party once. I wanted to find out if he was coming. He answered the door in a t-shirt and underwear, and didn't seem to understand my question. I heard someone upstairs yelling "who the f*** is it? Close the f***ing door...and gave up". These days, I just roll with it if I don't hear from people and assume they'll be here.

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#84 of 84 Old 01-25-2007, 07:12 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Momtoatweenandteen View Post

As far as I remember, our school policy has been that unless you invite the entire class, the invitations have to be mailed, hand delivered and so forth.
Of course, not all parents abide by this rule!:

I personally feel this is very rude and insensitive on the parent's part.
I agree with you.....it is seriously rude, and shows a definite lack in the upbringing of the parents.

If your child feels bad about being left out, tell her what I wrote above.

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