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#61 of 98 Old 06-11-2007, 03:42 PM
 
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Yea the no skin unless you are wanting to be touched there thing wouldn't work for us either. If my shoulders or calves are bare it's not okay for just anyone to just come up and touch me there.

The idea that my bikini clad Dd was in more danger than she would be in a t-shirt and shorts sits weird with me. The woman who had a problem with her suit actually used that as an example. It feels a little like blaming the victim to me I guess. "If she wasn't dressed that way she might not have been assaulted. She made him interested by being attractive/wearing a skirt and heels/etc." No good, IMO.

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#62 of 98 Old 06-11-2007, 04:13 PM
 
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okay...so we had a talk...I explained to her that I was uncomfortable with her clothing choices mostly because she just didn't know how to act in them...IE..she just sits with her legs open in a skirt...flashing her under wear to everyone.
In lower cut tops...especially size xs that are cut for women with more boobs than she has....she is flashing the entire world her chest.
It sounds like the problem goes beyond the clothes themselves. Learning to sit in a skirt, get in and out of car in shirt etc. are useful skills in life. It sounds like she can really use your help -- little things that my DDs have gradually learned over the years from small comments, no one has bothered to tell her.

And clothes need to fit properly. While I am fine with my DDs wearing spag. straps, they need to be the right length.

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.in that the bit about unschoolin mamas dd walking around in her bathing suit , my kiddos would not be doing. We change out of our swimsuits when done with swimming and do not run around in them as they are not clothing.
I realize that is a personal opinion....and reconginize others may not feel the same.
My kids walk back and forth to our community pool in their swim suits, and my older DD wears just her swim suit (with no cover up) back and forth to swim team practice. It is the norm here. Because my DD spends so much time at swim team practice and we homeschool, we spend more time around other kids wearing only swimsuits than wearing clothes -- so they really and truly are not a big deal for us.

but everything has pros and cons  shrug.gif

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#63 of 98 Old 06-11-2007, 05:40 PM
 
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I do like the guideline of, skin can show if it is okay for someone to touch you there. Are you comfortable with a touch on the arm? Fine, bare your arm. Comfortable with someone touching on the stomach? No? Then cover it up, let them know it is off limits.
But, I wear flip-flops outside in the heat but wouldn't like someone touching my feet!
AS you yourself figured out, that is a rather unhelpful "rule". Most people woudl not want their face touched by others, should they have to cover that up? Also, feet, neck earlobes etc....
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#64 of 98 Old 06-11-2007, 05:57 PM
 
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The swimsuit thing is interesting to me because it's just such a non issue for us. It covers things that our society requires and that most of us prefer to cover in public (breasts, etc.) and allow for water play, comfort in heat, etc. Dd has gone to the grocery store with me in her bikini top and a skirty thing pulled over her bottoms. You can see her belly, back, legs, and shoulders but we'd be pretty uncomfortable if someone just came up and touched her. (Not a casual bumping into thing, but touching.)

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#65 of 98 Old 06-11-2007, 06:25 PM - Thread Starter
 
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hmmm...seems to me that if I had said I wanted her to maintain a certain degree of modesty for religious reasons, that it would have been better accepted. Just because my reason are of the non religious nature does not make them less valid....does it?
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#66 of 98 Old 06-11-2007, 09:25 PM
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hmmm...seems to me that if I had said I wanted her to maintain a certain degree of modesty for religious reasons, that it would have been better accepted. Just because my reason are of the non religious nature does not make them less valid....does it?
It's not always acceptable to challenge someone else's faith. Challenging someone's logic and reasoning, on the other hand, is a completely different story.
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#67 of 98 Old 06-11-2007, 10:09 PM
 
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I haven't read all the posts but have skimmed some, and there seem to be a bit of a debate between 2 schools of thought: You are either your child's friend and they are an equal part of the house or you are their parent who rules the roost.

What I don't get is why can't you be a parent who respects what your child wants and listens to them and considers their feelings/wishes AND, when all is said in done you still have "final say" (for lack of a better word at the moment).

I just don't get it...I know plenty of people who know their parents are the overall rulers of the house,have set boundaries, etc...., and who have a great relationship with them (and always have) and have felt listened to and respected.
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#68 of 98 Old 06-11-2007, 10:10 PM
 
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hmmm...seems to me that if I had said I wanted her to maintain a certain degree of modesty for religious reasons, that it would have been better accepted. Just because my reason are of the non religious nature does not make them less valid....does it?
Not every reason is valid simply by nature of being a reason or opinion.

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#69 of 98 Old 06-11-2007, 10:16 PM
 
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hmmm...seems to me that if I had said I wanted her to maintain a certain degree of modesty for religious reasons, that it would have been better accepted. Just because my reason are of the non religious nature does not make them less valid....does it?
I think that "modesty" wasn't defined, and therefore there was lots of room to debate. If you had stated that she wore shirts that didn't not fit properly and therefore her chest was often visable, and that she sat in skirts with her legs wide apart showing her underwear, and you weren't sure how to address this issues, I think a very different exchange would have taken place.

Even those of us who don't *control* what our kids wear, talk to them about it.

I think that most everyone on the board agrees that you should talk to her about why you feel the way you do, though we don't all agree on what to do if she doesn't see things the same way you do. It is quite possible that she would enjoy learning to dress better, having clothes that fit her properly, and learning how to wear them to her best advantage.

but everything has pros and cons  shrug.gif

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#70 of 98 Old 06-11-2007, 11:59 PM
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Yea the no skin unless you are wanting to be touched there thing wouldn't work for us either. If my shoulders or calves are bare it's not okay for just anyone to just come up and touch me there.

The idea that my bikini clad Dd was in more danger than she would be in a t-shirt and shorts sits weird with me. The woman who had a problem with her suit actually used that as an example. It feels a little like blaming the victim to me I guess. "If she wasn't dressed that way she might not have been assaulted. She made him interested by being attractive/wearing a skirt and heels/etc." No good, IMO.
It's not fair, and it's not right.
But it happens.

It happens, and when you get sleazy defense attorneys trying to get their clients off for rape charges, you better bet that's one of the elements they'll bring up, and like it or not -- and I don't, and you don't -- there are still many people on a jury who are still of the "She was asking for it by dressing that way" mentality. What that effectively means is that someone could walk free for raping a woman who was dressed provocatively by community standards. And no, again, that's not fair and it's not right. But it happens.
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#71 of 98 Old 06-12-2007, 04:52 PM
 
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True enough, and it's so unfortunate. But, all of that being said, I can't see myself (or my Dd lol) dressing with a potential jury in mind. I don't want to make my wardrobe decisions based on that ya know?

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#72 of 98 Old 06-15-2007, 02:38 PM
 
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I haven't read all the posts but have skimmed some, and there seem to be a bit of a debate between 2 schools of thought: You are either your child's friend and they are an equal part of the house or you are their parent who rules the roost.

What I don't get is why can't you be a parent who respects what your child wants and listens to them and considers their feelings/wishes AND, when all is said in done you still have "final say" (for lack of a better word at the moment).

I just don't get it...I know plenty of people who know their parents are the overall rulers of the house,have set boundaries, etc...., and who have a great relationship with them (and always have) and have felt listened to and respected.
That's how I was raised, and I think I turned out pretty good. I am able to deal with my job at a highly corporate company very well (QUITE the similar situation, IMO), and I know that my best friend's kids are turning out very self-confident and aware of the world as well - and she raises hers the same way. My hubby and I are currently working on raising his son that way (14 yr old), though since we just got him a few years ago and prior to that he had NO understanding of taking responsibility for his own actions, it's difficult to keep up with it.

Even so, I believe that in the end, each child is different, each parenting style is different... It doesn't mean that it's wrong, just different. To me, however, making certain that a child understands their boundaries as they grow, takes responsibility for their actions and understands the consequenses of said actions, and is allowed to stretch and expand within reason as they grow, they should be fine.

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#73 of 98 Old 06-18-2007, 12:30 AM
 
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I have had a difficult time shopping with my soon to be 14 yr old.

I mean is it just me, or are most of the shirts in stores putting the emphasis on the chest area? low cut with all of the gathering or lace accenting the chest. My dd has a cute figure and a lot of these shirts are just saying "look at my boobies" to me. I want to downplay that area for her with clothing so that people would notice her sparkling personality. Also with sizing. Why are kids today constantly wearing smaller and smaller clothes? shorts so short they couldn't be any shorter?

I want for my daughter to have like a full nun swimsuit from top to bottom swim habit complete with rosary. But all we can find are these really really skimpy bathing suits, where the chest area has a several inch gap! There are racks and racks of these kinds of suits and very few modest ones.

I'm hoping to see her get something like a one piece speedo, a compromise between a neck to leg covering suit like the 40's that I want her to have and the bikini she wants.

And I won't buy a skimpy bikini for her with my money. I wouldn't let her buy a skimpy bikini with her money. I would get a modest suit for her though, we are going to swim parks and she needs something practical that isn't going to fall off with lots of swimming.
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#74 of 98 Old 06-18-2007, 12:39 AM
 
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oops double post
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#75 of 98 Old 06-18-2007, 05:56 AM
 
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I have had a difficult time shopping with my soon to be 14 yr old.

I mean is it just me, or are most of the shirts in stores putting the emphasis on the chest area? low cut with all of the gathering or lace accenting the chest. My dd has a cute figure and a lot of these shirts are just saying "look at my boobies" to me. I want to downplay that area for her with clothing so that people would notice her sparkling personality. Also with sizing. Why are kids today constantly wearing smaller and smaller clothes? shorts so short they couldn't be any shorter?

I want for my daughter to have like a full nun swimsuit from top to bottom swim habit complete with rosary. But all we can find are these really really skimpy bathing suits, where the chest area has a several inch gap! There are racks and racks of these kinds of suits and very few modest ones.

I'm hoping to see her get something like a one piece speedo, a compromise between a neck to leg covering suit like the 40's that I want her to have and the bikini she wants.

And I won't buy a skimpy bikini for her with my money. I wouldn't let her buy a skimpy bikini with her money. I would get a modest suit for her though, we are going to swim parks and she needs something practical that isn't going to fall off with lots of swimming.

Some of the shorts are really short this year, but longer one's are in too.

Here's a pair that are the "height" of fashion but still somewhat modest.http://www.abercrombiekids.com/webap...-1_12152_12103. You can find less expensive versions at Kohl's.

And the low cut shirts are worn with another shirt under them. That's the 'in' syle and is more modest.

I would be concerned about being too anxious to "downplay" her chest area. Intead of noticing her personality, sometimes it makes other kids think "why is she so anxious to hide her body."

Finally, how about a cute tankini. http://www.limitedtoo.com/detail/2230320. or http://www.landsend.com/pp/Scrunchba...RCH=PAGE_66463. A little more fashion forward than a one piece but still somewhat modest (by today's standards, which really is how clothing must be judged).
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#76 of 98 Old 06-18-2007, 10:13 AM - Thread Starter
 
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its nice to see a few moms out there with the same concerns as myself. we are still searching for a suit...and will probably end up with the lands end one...the limited ones do not have enough coverage.
we will probably also get the board shorts as she has a rather large butt and everything leaves her butt cheeks hanging out....and she really does hate that.
soooo.....in the end we seem to be sort of on the same page....and its going okay so far. Till her mom buys her some ridiculous hoochy outfit and asks her to wear it....I told her to tell her mom "no way" and wear her own clothes.




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you can get bathing suits that are full coverage...if you're interested . I found them by googling Modest swimwear girls. It came up with many suits that cover from shoulders to knees. If thats really not what you're looking for ....lands end..and many others sell swimsuits that have matching longer boardshorts. really a cute look.
and rashguard shirts are in this season as well.

I just told my niece she can get the swimsuit but I would prefer to have her wear the matching shorts over top and she is very comfortable w/ that as well....as for the rashguard shirt...she likes it ....we'll see.
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#77 of 98 Old 06-18-2007, 10:59 AM
 
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I mean is it just me, or are most of the shirts in stores putting the emphasis on the chest area? low cut with all of the gathering or lace accenting the chest.
I think it depends on where you shop. It seems to me that the more expensive stores carry more clothes that are both stylish and not overly revealing.

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Why are kids today constantly wearing smaller and smaller clothes? shorts so short they couldn't be any shorter?
What I see is extremes -- short shorts, or really long shorts. The style is just to avoid the middle ground.

The same with top -- tight fighting tanks, or big bloucey tops that could amost be materinity tops.

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But all we can find are these really really skimpy bathing suits, where the chest area has a several inch gap!
Try a sporting goods store, or a speciality shop for competitive swimmers. Racing suits have modest tops that come up and smash your breast (because cleavage slows you down when you swim!) Practice suits for competitive swimmers are somewhere between that and a regular suit. Sports Authority would be a good place to start.

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we are going to swim parks and she needs something practical that isn't going to fall off with lots of swimming.
One of my DDs is a serious swimmer and I agree that you can't really swim in a lot of suits.

but everything has pros and cons  shrug.gif

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#78 of 98 Old 06-18-2007, 11:15 AM
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A really great look (very sporty and in with the beach n surf crowd 'round here in SD) that I'll probably invest in myself (forgive me, I'm a fashion junkie) is a tankini top and boyshort style bottom in different, but complimentary colors/prints, or girl's board shorts. They're comfortable, modest, but extra trendy, because you can hit the beach and then walk up the street and hit the shops without having to change.

Most people think boardshorts and get the idea of baggy mens swim trunks that go to the knees, but girls board shorts are a really great summer look for girls who want the practicality of a suit to swim in without looking like a throwback from the '20s. Rusty and Roxy both have excellent styles (both in to-the-knee shorts and between the knee and thigh) and you can find them on ebay fairly cheap.
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#79 of 98 Old 06-18-2007, 11:41 AM
 
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I think it depends on where you shop. It seems to me that the more expensive stores carry more clothes that are both stylish and not overly revealing.
For DD I was planning to go to this store that is second hand that carries one and two years ago's styles. Were a few years ago's styles even more immodest than todays? You ladies can talk me out of bargain shopping if that is the case. We were in the mall in a store called Deb trying on the bikini's that didn't work. With dd, I want to avoid the more immodest stores though...So tell me... Which expensive and more likely to get modest styles stores do you go to? So, Kohls, Land's end, Sporting goods stores, and where else? (She's in women's sizes so Limited doesn't work anymore, she's like a 3 or a 5). Lands end is kind of difficult because we don't know exactly what size she is.

I wouldn't want the really modest swimsuit, I was just joking. I wouldn't mind a tankini. I really wouldn't mind a bikini if it had coverage. She doesn't want a tankini, she wants a bikini. What she was trying on was too small and everything was hanging out. The cut was too skimpi on the bottom. She had to tie it tight to make it cover the butt cheeks, and that is not flattering at all. The top was so wide that 1/2 of her breasts were hanging out. Nobody wants to see that much of a 14 yr old girl. Especially her Dad and I (insert eye gougeing smilie). I want it to cover and stay on without being really tight. Something that looks cute, and not trampy. If we could find a bikini like that, with maybe some board shorts and a rash shirt, I think I would be good. But I think the tankini you showed or a one piece is more practical for swimming. We are going to discovery cove on our youngest dd's wish trip. There is lots of snorkeling. I told her I can only afford one suit, so it's got to serve a lot of purpose and be functional.
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#80 of 98 Old 06-18-2007, 11:50 AM
 
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For DD I was planning to go to this store that is second hand that carries one and two years ago's styles. Were a few years ago's styles even more immodest than todays? You ladies can talk me out of bargain shopping if that is the case.

YES, the current style is actually MORE modest than it was a few years ago.

Instead of belly barring tops you get these from the infamous Ambercrombie: http://www.abercrombie.com/webapp/wc...-1_12274_12203. I mean cute, very stylish and modest!

Also Limited too comes up to a kids size 18. This should fit a girl wearing an adult size 3-5. This style is really cute, not overly showy and tends to fit well. http://www.limitedtoo.com/detail/2230291/39/1#. It's somewhat open in the back, and my binki loving dd loves having this one too!
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#81 of 98 Old 06-18-2007, 03:30 PM
 
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Thanks! I think that she might be a 16 up top and an 18 on the bottom. Maybe that is why we are having problems with two pieces that are sold together with the top being too big or the bottoms being too tight. I didn't know that limited too had her size. She liked one of the suits she saw there and we can go try it on.
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#82 of 98 Old 06-19-2007, 01:09 AM
 
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Lands end is kind of difficult because we don't know exactly what size she is.
We've had good luck with just going with their size chart. Their clothes run more true to size than most places. Returns are a breeze -- you can either send it back or just take it (with the receipt) to any Sears store.

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We are going to discovery cove on our youngest dd's wish trip. There is lots of snorkeling. I told her I can only afford one suit, so it's got to serve a lot of purpose and be functional.
Have a wonderful trip!!!!! I've heard fantastic things about discovery cove!

but everything has pros and cons  shrug.gif

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#83 of 98 Old 06-19-2007, 03:16 PM
 
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I skimmed over this thread when it was 1-2 pgs and read some opinions. I didn't have a reason to post until now. I will say that I am in the middle of not being overly modest or overly revealing clothing.

I have 2 dd's through marriage and their mother's choose clothes and make-up for them. I don't always like every choice but don't make them change unless we are going to church or somewhere that it will be a hazzard or something like camping .

Youngest dd is 10 older one is 13]

Youngest wears some outfits for dance that tight, short, ect but not exposing any actual personal parts. At the recital last week I noticed some men watching some of the girls in the worst way. Ugh it made me sick to my stomach. I noticed some of the girls wore white form fitting body suits with no bras and everything was visible. Some of these girls have very developed bodies. I felt like I was the only one in the auditorium having this awful feeling and kept looking at my dh to see if he noticed or if he was looking at them too but it didn't appear that way.

Then came a group of girls probably age 9-13 and they had REALLY short shorts, high boots, half shirts, berets, and stocking on. They did a bootie shake song and thrusted their little bodies around in adult way. The lyrics were about the bootie and the body -this time dh actually turned to me with his jaw dropped. I hate it! I don't want guys looking at our dd's like they are sexual. They put tons of make-up on the girls too for showy appearance. Some of them remind me of Jon Bennet Ramsey(spelling).

I am having an internal struggle now. I am looking around to see who's looking at my dd's all the time now. I also can't really change it if their mom s think it is ok.

Sorry it s a vent but it ties in with why some people like their kids covered.
When I was a growing up their were lots of times I was gropped , grabbed, and propositioned in sexual nature. Family members, prison, ect all involved.

I know why should someone have to be modest because of some guy's perverted problems but if someone is drooling over your dd right in front of you ...it feels blech.
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#84 of 98 Old 06-19-2007, 05:43 PM
 
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No Kidding! I feel the same way. Recently with the Kelsey Smith kidnapping, was I politically incorrect when I thought her tank top and ultra short shorts made her look like tasty bait for the criminal looking for someone? I think of it that way and all the short shorts scare me because of this. I don't want dd wearing them at 14 but I wonder if she was 18 if I would feel different. I do have a problem feeling fearful when I probably should be wanting my dd to go out and have a sense of safety in the world. I heard another doula talking about wanting to send her child out with a sense that the world was safe. That just sounds foreign to me. Someone else says "really statistically it hardly ever happens". If it has happened to you and a few people you know though, it becomes more real and the dressing thing becomes more real. Not that I don't believe the killer would have kidnapped her no matter what she wore. But these feeling tie into a lot about what I feel comfortable buying for my daughter. The other people gawking and what they are thinking factor is real.

We too just went to a recital where 11-13 year olds were dancing to loosen up my buttons baby. Yuk! I don't want anyone loosening up buttons on girls this age. I think a lot of people thought yuk too. The song had a good beat to dance too, the dance was not seductive and the costumes were big and frumpy though, but still....I would pick a different song for that age.
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#85 of 98 Old 06-19-2007, 05:50 PM
 
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: ikesmom...we have a lot of other people over here that never go home either!
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#86 of 98 Old 06-19-2007, 05:51 PM
 
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Keep in mind that actual child predators don't care if your child is dressed like a hoochie-mama or a nun. Your child is in no more actual danger based on what he or she is wearing.

That said, teenagers can certainly get innapropriate attention if they're dressed in a way that makes them look older. More risk of being raped? I highly doubt it. More danger of being whistled at? Yeah, very likely.

Ruth, single mommy to Leah, 19, Hannah, 18, and Jack, 12
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#87 of 98 Old 06-19-2007, 06:10 PM
 
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I think in my head I know this. I think I have hangups on this issue, because it's true, those I knew who were abused were dressed very modestly....so why should it matter...or why does it matter? but skimpy dressing does still give me anxiety.
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#88 of 98 Old 06-19-2007, 06:44 PM
 
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Yeah I agree..I didn't dress skimpy and my mom was strict with us on decency, coverage, behavior ect.
I don't think I asked to be looked at preyed upon . I don't think these girls at the show were seeking that either but society makes it that way. They are being influenced on what is appealing, expressive, appropriate, and the norm for their peers and themselves.

Somehow though if something happens to them and they are engaging in sexual behavior, preyed on , or abused the same society will turn on the "mama' and say where in h*ll was her mama? " Parents let the school and others raise their children these days" and such comments. It always turns on the parents...especially the mama.

So I think every person has to look at their child and pay attention to what that kid is experiencing, being exposed to, ect and if things need to be corrected or changed for health or well being then it is that parent's responsibility.

I liked making my own choices growing up but I also needed my mom to make choices for me. I am no worse for it.
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#89 of 98 Old 06-19-2007, 10:02 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ikesmom View Post
Then came a group of girls probably age 9-13 and they had REALLY short shorts, high boots, half shirts, berets, and stocking on. They did a bootie shake song and thrusted their little bodies around in adult way. The lyrics were about the bootie and the body -this time dh actually turned to me with his jaw dropped.
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We too just went to a recital where 11-13 year olds were dancing to loosen up my buttons baby. Yuk! I don't want anyone loosening up buttons on girls this age.
I really don't understand what the people who plan these things, or the parents who pay for them, are thinking. It seems like a very strange way to "socialize" a child. It's hard for me to see how these kinds of things can help foster healthy self esteem.

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So I think every person has to look at their child and pay attention to what that kid is experiencing, being exposed to, ect and if things need to be corrected or changed for health or well being then it is that parent's responsibility.
I agree.

but everything has pros and cons  shrug.gif

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#90 of 98 Old 06-22-2007, 12:51 AM
 
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Maybe it's because a long list of graduates of this dance school are on broadway now, and one of the senior girls got a full ride scholorship to college for dance. 99.5 percent of the show was awesome, professional and cute. Dance is a way of keeping kids active with some kind of exercise. While my kids took dance, they learned to read faster because of the gross and fine motor skills connection and balance.
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