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#1 of 67 Old 11-01-2007, 12:31 PM - Thread Starter
 
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My 14yo has had a "female friend" (swears she's not a girlfriend) for almost a year now, she is 12. She has an older sister who is 16.

They convinced him to dress up in the 12yo girls clothing for Halloween, complete with make up, 24 hour hair coloring, lip stick, etc. all of this was OK until I saw the outfit he was wearing.

Just a bit of background here, my 14yo ds is more like a 12 year old. he's just started puberty (literally within the past 2 months) and has no body hair. So there was no shaving, etc. He did not have any body hair to make this not work. but.. When i saw him after he came back from their house he was wearing a mini skirt, and a blouse. He was wearing pantyhose, panties and a bra, and his blonde hair was strawberry brunette.

I did not recognize him. The girls mother dropped off his clothing while they was out trick or treating, and i noticed that his briefs were in the clothing and I asked about it, and she said they thought that the briefs would be visable or look badly with the mini skirt, so they had him wear panties. I asked where he changed and she said that she let him change in front of the two girls. I'm not comfortable with my son being naked in front of 2 other girls of his peer age.

I brought it up to him afterwards and he got very defensive. He swore that nothing bad or wrong happened at all. That he was naked for no more than 2 minutes in front of them. And that they never touched his body in that area at all. He said that he has to shower in school in front of other boys, why does it matter if he got naked in a non-sexual way in front of 2 girls.

I could not argue with him with that point, but told him that I was not comfortable with it and he does not have MY permission to do it again.

I'm very liberal. But am I out of line here? If the girls parents supervised and was there, I'd have felt a thousand times better, but I'm not sure if Dan would have done it in that situation.

WWYD?
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#2 of 67 Old 11-01-2007, 12:46 PM
 
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Opposite sex kids do not change in front of each other. I would be firm with him and mention to the other mother that this was poor judgment on her part. I might also have him spend a bit less time with this girl until your son realizes where the boundaries are. He could have changed in another room, a restroom, a closet......etc, etc.
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#3 of 67 Old 11-01-2007, 12:50 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Opposite sex kids do not change in front of each other. I would be firm with him and mention to the other mother that this was poor judgment on her part. I might also have him spend a bit less time with this girl until your son realizes where the boundaries are. He could have changed in another room, a restroom, a closet......etc, etc.
Thanks for making me feel like I'm the only one here who feels that it just was a bad idea. I dont think that him spending less time with her is a good idea however, he has very few friends as it is. I will reinforce that he doesnt change infront of girls in the future until he's older.
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#4 of 67 Old 11-01-2007, 01:09 PM
 
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I bet that other mother wouldn't have let her daughter change in front of him - I would ask her that. I think she crossed the line and it wasn't her call to make whether he changed in front of a girl, whether he wanted to or not.

And I don't think you're the only one who thinks it was a bad idea. I think it was a bad idea too.
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#5 of 67 Old 11-01-2007, 01:15 PM
 
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I myself would have no problem with it as long as my kid was comfortable. It's HIS body, not mine, so he gets to make the calls about what he is comfortable with. Of course, I only have daughters, maybe I would feel differently if I had a son. I would not have a problem with my DDs changing in front of peer age friends of either sex as long as they were comfortable with it.
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#6 of 67 Old 11-01-2007, 01:27 PM
 
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I sent you a big long PM but thought I'd put a shorter version in here...

I say as long as no one was hurt then no need to make a big issue of it. He wasn't uncomfortable and neither were the girls. I would use it as a discussion point to talk about why you prefer he not change in front of members of the opposite sex.

I think its best to deal with it very calmly and not involve the girls mom...embarassing him by bringing in other people is not the route I would take. Even if you want to lay down the law and say "absolutely no getting naked in front of members of the opposite sex" I don't see the need for the other mom to be involved...at 14 your son can follow a rule like that on his own.
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#7 of 67 Old 11-01-2007, 01:32 PM
 
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I completely agree with morning glory.
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#8 of 67 Old 11-01-2007, 01:36 PM
 
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I myself would have no problem with it as long as my kid was comfortable. It's HIS body, not mine, so he gets to make the calls about what he is comfortable with.
Ditto that. Being a mom of all boys I would be more worried about the girl's parents having an issue but since clearly they didn't then I would just let it go.

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#9 of 67 Old 11-01-2007, 01:38 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Ditto that. Being a mom of all boys I would be more worried about the girl's parents having an issue but since clearly they didn't then I would just let it go.
In the other parents defense, the mother required both girls to be there and would not let just my DS and the younger girl (his friend)
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#10 of 67 Old 11-01-2007, 01:45 PM
 
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In the other parents defense, the mother required both girls to be there and would not let just my DS and the younger girl (his friend)

that strikes me as strange! she was obviously uncomfortable with it....why not ask one daughter to leave the room instead of another daughter to stay with the other?

as a mom of all boys here too.
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#11 of 67 Old 11-01-2007, 01:50 PM
 
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nak

Not ok with me. Reverse the sexes. It definitely would not be ok for 14 year old girl to dress in front of 16 and 12 year old boys. So totally not ok. I'd talk to my son and talk to the girls' mother again and tell her why it isn't ok.

Choli - Seriously, you would be ok with your 14 year old daughter dressing and undressing in front of a 16 year old boy? :
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#12 of 67 Old 11-01-2007, 01:50 PM - Thread Starter
 
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that strikes me as strange! she was obviously uncomfortable with it....why not ask one daughter to leave the room instead of another daughter to stay with the other?

as a mom of all boys here too.
i'm only assuming, that with 2, their would be less chance of things happening that was inappropriate beyond my son naked.
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#13 of 67 Old 11-01-2007, 02:02 PM
 
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nak

Not ok with me. Reverse the sexes. It definitely would not be ok for 14 year old girl to dress in front of 16 and 12 year old boys. So totally not ok. I'd talk to my son and talk to the girls' mother again and tell her why it isn't ok.

Choli - Seriously, you would be ok with your 14 year old daughter dressing and undressing in front of a 16 year old boy? :
Yes, if she was comfortable with it. We are not a family that equates nudity with sex, especially in a situation such as changing clothes. We don't equate skin with sin.

What exactly is it that you would have a problem with? Really, do you have such a low opinion of 16 yr old boys that you think she would be immediately attacked or something? My DD has male friends, and any she would be comfortable changing with are ones that she knows and trusts. Not all teenage boys are animals.
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#14 of 67 Old 11-01-2007, 02:16 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I've been thinking about this a lot today and thinking about everyone else's comments on it.

I think my biggest concern is that it was used as a "show and tell" type of event. That it wasn't necessary.

I also feel that I'm protective over DS because he has only just hit puberty, and he does get picked on for being not very physically mature. I think it could have ended up with the girls picking on him, and DS then being devastated because he trusted them, and they picked on him for whatever reason, no pubic hair, small size, whatever reason.

I also think if it would have been a mutual thing, such as a co-ed changing room as we ourselves were in when we visited Europe over the summer, that I would have thought a lot differently about this incident. Insted it was my DS, with two girls checking him out - and he was alone with the exposure.
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#15 of 67 Old 11-01-2007, 02:26 PM
 
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I wouldn't have been comfortable with it. I probably wouldn't make too big of a deal out of it, but I would definitely talk to my son about it. I think that, at that age, it is inappropriate for girls/boys to be naked around each other. Just my opinion of course!
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#16 of 67 Old 11-01-2007, 02:36 PM
 
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Choli - As the mother of an 18 year old boy, I obviously do not think of them as animals, nor do I think they can't control themselves and will attack. That was insulting and uncalled for. What I do know is that boys at that age are sexualized. They have hormones. They have desires and wants, and to see a desire and want standing right in front of them is uncomfortable for everyone. This is 100% different from a child seeing his mother naked. I agree that skin doesn't equal sin, but it equals a turn on to many teen age boys. Otherwise, Playboy would have gone out of business a long, long time ago. Just because you and your daughter are comfortable with her getting totally naked and dressed in front of 16 year old boys, does not mean the boys are comfortable with it (and if his mother is me, she obviously is not comfortable with it).

I think we should just agree to disagree on this. You would never change my mind that it is ok for a 14 year old girl to get naked (no panties even) in front of a 16 year old boy, and I highly doubt I will change your mind that it isn't ok.
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#17 of 67 Old 11-01-2007, 02:45 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I think we should just agree to disagree on this. You would never change my mind that it is ok for a 14 year old girl to get naked (no panties even) in front of a 16 year old boy, and I highly doubt I will change your mind that it isn't ok.
While I agree with you about 90% on this, I view the 16yo in this as a responsible teenager, who if babysitting my son when he was 11 or 12, I would not have thought twice if she saw him naked while he was in the bath.

Even though DS is 14, he looks, acts, and is about as physically mature as a 11-12 year old. And I hope that the 16 year old acted the part that I'm thinking that she was asked to do.

if my DS at 16/17 was babysitting a 9/10 year old girl and he, in an appropriate way, saw her undressed I dont think I would have a problem with it.
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#18 of 67 Old 11-01-2007, 02:49 PM
 
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I would NOT be ok with that. I don't feel it is appropriate at all.
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#19 of 67 Old 11-01-2007, 02:50 PM
 
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Choli - As the mother of an 18 year old boy, I obviously do not think of them as animals, nor do I think they can't control themselves and will attack. That was insulting and uncalled for. What I do know is that boys at that age are sexualized. They have hormones. They have desires and wants, and to see a desire and want standing right in front of them is uncomfortable for everyone. This is 100% different from a child seeing his mother naked. I agree that skin doesn't equal sin, but it equals a turn on to many teen age boys. Otherwise, Playboy would have gone out of business a long, long time ago. Just because you and your daughter are comfortable with her getting totally naked and dressed in front of 16 year old boys, does not mean the boys are comfortable with it (and if his mother is me, she obviously is not comfortable with it).

I think we should just agree to disagree on this. You would never change my mind that it is ok for a 14 year old girl to get naked (no panties even) in front of a 16 year old boy, and I highly doubt I will change your mind that it isn't ok.
And yet, in other countries, apparently people are comfortable with co-ed changing rooms. Why do you think that is?

I don't see it as my business to try to tell my DD what her own comfort level with her own body should be. If I WAS uncomfortable with it, it would still not be my place to tell her what her comfort level should be.
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#20 of 67 Old 11-01-2007, 03:05 PM
 
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i'm only assuming, that with 2, their would be less chance of things happening that was inappropriate beyond my son naked.
i totally agree, but if the mom thought that was even a remote possibility why would she let it happen?

i am just really speechless (typless lol) over that part of it.

i mean, i think if the mom didn't require there to be 2 children present in front of a naked opposite sex child...i don't even know where i am going with that.

i think it was bad judgment on the other moms part. maybe she allows that, maybe not. either way it was not her choice to allow a child that is not hers to do that.


(sorry so rambly, i am trying to type something coherent but its not really working)
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#21 of 67 Old 11-01-2007, 03:19 PM
 
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We aren't talking about Europe. We are talking about the U.S. When you are use to seeing nudity, it isn't the same. Seeing grandma changing into her bathing suit is not the same as seeing 14 year old friend in the nude. One is a turn on and one is grandma getting into her bathing suit. It is totally different situation in a changing room with everyone from babies to grandparents around. It is your place to tell your children your views, she doesn't have to listen, she doesn't have to do it, but you are suppose to guide your children, share your values and morals, as you have. And your morals and values think that it is ok for her to get undressed in front of her male friends. The OP asked what we thought, I gave my opinion based on my values (as a pretty liberal American) - that it is not ok once puberty starts to get undressed in front of the other sex when they are peers.

SJane1 - Totally different scenario with someone baby-sitting. I am sure the 16 year old did behave as you would want. I doubt she thought about it one second after the fact.

A lot of parents would be plenty mad if this situation was reversed. A 16 year old boy brought in to watch the 14 year old girl dress so the 12 year old boy isn't alone with her? That would be considered perverted. The mother should have just suggested to your son that he change in the bathroom.
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#22 of 67 Old 11-01-2007, 03:35 PM
 
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A lot of parents would be plenty mad if this situation was reversed. A 16 year old boy brought in to watch the 14 year old girl dress so the 12 year old boy isn't alone with her? That would be considered perverted. The mother should have just suggested to your son that he change in the bathroom.
I agree with you and scatterbrainedmom. The mom felt something about it wasn't right, but the way she handled it was just totally off the wall. Getting a 16 year old to chaperon them? WTF? The younger girl didn't need a chaperon, she needed to leave the room. If it had been 2 boys watching a girl completely undress you would all be freaked out about it, come on you know it's true, look way down deep in your mama bear hearts!:

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#23 of 67 Old 11-01-2007, 04:19 PM
 
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We aren't talking about Europe. We are talking about the U.S. When you are use to seeing nudity, it isn't the same. Seeing grandma changing into her bathing suit is not the same as seeing 14 year old friend in the nude. One is a turn on and one is grandma getting into her bathing suit. It is totally different situation in a changing room with everyone from babies to grandparents around. It is your place to tell your children your views, she doesn't have to listen, she doesn't have to do it, but you are suppose to guide your children, share your values and morals, as you have. And your morals and values think that it is ok for her to get undressed in front of her male friends. The OP asked what we thought, I gave my opinion based on my values (as a pretty liberal American) - that it is not ok once puberty starts to get undressed in front of the other sex when they are peers.

SJane1 - Totally different scenario with someone baby-sitting. I am sure the 16 year old did behave as you would want. I doubt she thought about it one second after the fact.

A lot of parents would be plenty mad if this situation was reversed. A 16 year old boy brought in to watch the 14 year old girl dress so the 12 year old boy isn't alone with her? That would be considered perverted. The mother should have just suggested to your son that he change in the bathroom.
The internet is not the USA, and the OP did not specify that she wanted USA opinions.

I do notice, however, that the current social climate in the USA tends to lead people to sexualize situations that simply are not sexual.
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#24 of 67 Old 11-01-2007, 04:21 PM
 
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Is your son homosexual? The reason I ask is that if he has girls that are friends and doesn't mind changing in front of them then I wouldn't worry. I don't think they would be getting curious anyway if they know his orientation. Sometimes other kids know something that one kids parents don't know about them. Just a thought.

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#25 of 67 Old 11-01-2007, 04:27 PM
 
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Just to clarify...in my last post I was in no way saying your child is a homosexual. I was just asking a question. I wanted to clarify that. I know that when I was a teenager at that age I knew things about my best friends that even their parents didn't know and if they knew the things we were all doing together they would have been appalled I'm sure. I just don't want you to be offended by my questioning.

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#26 of 67 Old 11-01-2007, 04:29 PM
 
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I myself would have no problem with it as long as my kid was comfortable. It's HIS body, not mine, so he gets to make the calls about what he is comfortable with. Of course, I only have daughters, maybe I would feel differently if I had a son. I would not have a problem with my DDs changing in front of peer age friends of either sex as long as they were comfortable with it.
ITA
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#27 of 67 Old 11-01-2007, 04:34 PM
 
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The mom felt something about it wasn't right, but the way she handled it was just totally off the wall. Getting a 16 year old to chaperon them? WTF? The younger girl didn't need a chaperon, she needed to leave the room. If it had been 2 boys watching a girl completely undress you would all be freaked out about it, come on you know it's true, look way down deep in your mama bear hearts!:


I wonder if it started out as a bit of a joke, and then just kept going one step further, and a little further, and then a little further. It seems to me like the kinda thing that if they had started our realizing the whole thing, they might not have done it, and yet, each step was just one tiny step, so there never seemed to be a reason to stop.

I think that parents should talk to their boys about saying no to girls. Just because a girl comes up with an idea, it doesn't mean that it is a good idea. And boys have just as much of a right to say no as girls, even though they don't often get that message in our society.

but everything has pros and cons  shrug.gif

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#28 of 67 Old 11-01-2007, 05:17 PM
 
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Wow! Some very strong opinions here. I don't have teens yet, but I was one not very long ago-I would personally be uncomfortable with the fact that he did change in front of the girls, but I wouldn't go overboard on it if HE wasn't uncomfortable. Nudity does not always have to be sexual, and this is true even with teenagers. I changed in front of my guy friends before, and nothing happened-we were just changing clothes, ya know? I DO think that opposite sexes should change separately, but once incident shouldn't be that huge of a deal, and it was probably a completely spontaneous action with the kids. Teenagers tend to act first without thinking of the consequences, and they probably didn't even pause to think that it might be inappropriate for a boy to change in front of them. I'll be they were mostly giggling at the fact that one of their male friends is going to be dressed as a female.

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#29 of 67 Old 11-01-2007, 05:51 PM
 
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I myself would have no problem with it as long as my kid was comfortable. It's HIS body, not mine, so he gets to make the calls about what he is comfortable with. Of course, I only have daughters, maybe I would feel differently if I had a son. I would not have a problem with my DDs changing in front of peer age friends of either sex as long as they were comfortable with it.
I have a daughter and a son, and I agree with you. They can be naked in front of whomever they want; its not my body to control.

When I was 15, I was doing community theater and often changed clothes (sometimes getting completely naked) in front of women and men of all ages. That was actually when I finally started feeling comfortable about my body again, after being very very modest between the age of 9 and 14. That's a good thing, IMO.

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#30 of 67 Old 11-01-2007, 06:26 PM
 
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It kind of sounds like he already had the skirt on when they decided he should change into the panties too. In which case, they may have gotten a little flash but probably nothing too serious. He might have turned his back?

In any case, I don't think it's a big deal at all. To me it would only be a big deal if he was uncomfortable, didn't want to do it, and they pressured him, or pulled his pants down or something. It sounds like it was all in good fun.

Mind you, I wouldn't think twice about changing in front of most of my friends, male or female, and neither would they. We're pretty liberal, and there's a nude beach here that all my friends go to so we've seen it all anyway.

I have to wonder how much of your discomfort is related to seeing your son dressed as what sounds like a very cute teenaged girl? Or, maybe, if his defensiveness is more related to that than to the nudity?

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