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#121 of 184 Old 02-04-2008, 02:11 PM
 
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For anyone interested.. here is Soulja boy explaining how to do the dance...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLGLum5SyKQ

And here is the actual video...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNNm07dH2EY
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#122 of 184 Old 02-04-2008, 02:14 PM
 
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If she loves to dance, and likes hip hop, there are a TON of positive, socially-conscious groups that rock mad beats. I personally think that Soulja Boy sucks.

Now, I listened to NWA as a young teen and didn't even notice the lyrics. I LOVED the beats, and the MCing. I am much more aware of misogyny in rap as an adult, and purchase music accordingly.
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#123 of 184 Old 02-04-2008, 02:15 PM
 
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Originally Posted by forthebest View Post
If my child wanted to eat 20 big macs a day should I just let them in case I am censoring my childs wishes? Should I allow them to smoke , if they have started, voice my disagreement with it, issue some health warnings and just let them get on with it?
How old are your kids?

I thought we were talking about teens/preteens in this conversation (so, maybe age 10+), not saying to a three yr old "Hey, want to listen to this misogynistic song? let me define superman for ya..."

If your teen wants to eat 20 Big Macs, and you think thats terrible, you will do.....what?

If your teen starts smoking, and you think thats terrible, you will do.....what?

I dont want my 11 yr old to eat 20 Big Macs or start to smoke, but the only thing i can do is to give him enough information and empower him to make better choices. I can put limits on things if i want (like, i could tell him he has to buy Big Macs with his own money, or tell him i dont want smoking in the house) but beyond that....what really are you going to do? Lock your teenager in his room until he promises never to smoke again?

*That* is what i think people in this thread are saying. That they give their kids lots of information, perhaps their own insight or opinion, but in the end they recognize their child's ability to do what is best for themselves. Certainly you might provide more direction when the child is a toddler...but in the end the child will make their own decisions. You can't force them to believe what you believe. And i think if you provide them lots of info, keep the lines of communication open, and then let them go, you have a better chance of having a child that makes decision for himself and not just because of peer pressure or whatever.


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#124 of 184 Old 02-04-2008, 02:26 PM
 
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Has anyone actually looked up the lyrics to this song? He is actually saying OH, not HO. Which kind of changes everything, don't you think?
I thought the "OH" was in the "clean" lyrics, but the "HO" was in the "real" lyrics? Most songs with swearing, or other iffy language have a clean "radio" version and a less-clean "album" version. In some hip hop or rap songs they will throw a "Oh!" or a "Wha'?!" in there in place of the outlawed word.

I asked my son about this song yesterday, he said he had heard it, and that his friend across the street does the dance and listens to the song all the time. I told him about this thread, and then he wanted to know what the words meant....uhhhhhh....

Thats one thing i think might be an issue with taking a kid's innocent enjoyment of a song, and then suddenly defining very icky or adult words for him, that he had no desire to know at that point. Now i regret even bringing it up to him...i'll never forget when i was little, my friend and i were singing "Like a Virgin....hey!" and her dad flipped out, "Do you know what you are singing?!? Thats a bad song!!!"....we didnt really know what "virgin" meant (well, she was Catholic so maybe had the reference point of virgin mary)...we were just singing along to a song on the radio. And he turned it "dirty"....so i think maybe sometimes in an attempt to keep our kids "innocent" (not letting them listen to "bad" songs), we actually tear away some of their "innocence" in the process.


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#125 of 184 Old 02-04-2008, 02:41 PM
 
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Katherine, I don't know; the lyrics are on his website and there is no mention of a dirty version. Also if you watch the instructional video, the "superman" is quite clearly a dance move. Bend over, arms back, like superman flying through the air.

So IMO this is much ado about nothing.

Now there are some songs that really disturb me out there... but this is not one of them.

That's a great point about Like a Virgin! Although I think I knew what it meant. OTOH I sang "Material Girl," except I thought it was "Cheerio Girl." Hahaha!
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#126 of 184 Old 02-04-2008, 02:55 PM
 
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Originally Posted by queenjane View Post
How old are your kids?

I thought we were talking about teens/preteens in this conversation (so, maybe age 10+), not saying to a three yr old "Hey, want to listen to this misogynistic song? let me define superman for ya..."

If your teen wants to eat 20 Big Macs, and you think thats terrible, you will do.....what?

If your teen starts smoking, and you think thats terrible, you will do.....what?

I dont want my 11 yr old to eat 20 Big Macs or start to smoke, but the only thing i can do is to give him enough information and empower him to make better choices. I can put limits on things if i want (like, i could tell him he has to buy Big Macs with his own money, or tell him i dont want smoking in the house) but beyond that....what really are you going to do? Lock your teenager in his room until he promises never to smoke again?

*That* is what i think people in this thread are saying. That they give their kids lots of information, perhaps their own insight or opinion, but in the end they recognize their child's ability to do what is best for themselves. Certainly you might provide more direction when the child is a toddler...but in the end the child will make their own decisions. You can't force them to believe what you believe. And i think if you provide them lots of info, keep the lines of communication open, and then let them go, you have a better chance of having a child that makes decision for himself and not just because of peer pressure or whatever.


Katherine
I honestly think that nobody here has suggested or would lock their kids in their room cos they want to do something we as their parents disagree with, I think we are all a bit more open-minded than that and it is not really possible to do that unless you are a complete bampot who actually thinks that is a good way to parent. As for making my kids believe what I believe well, good grief I may as well have given birth to sheep. But if my kids left home believing it is ok to debase women I'd feel I had significantly failed as a parent. Thats not to say that listening and dancing to soulja boy will render every or any child a misogynist. What the problem imo is about these women-hating songs is that slowly we are becoming immune to the diatribe voiced in these lyrics, we've all heard the stuff, 'bla bla bla bitch, gonna bla bla bla you bitch,ho etc etc, sorry can't even think of the words right now and they are so offensive I don't think I can put em down here. My kids would hear that stuff and be offended, at least my daughters would, my son would probably smirk and I would say wow thats a really nice way to treat women, sarcasm. I just feel a bit unnerved not to mention angry that we are being bombarded with this stuff and kids are dancing around to it like it was...cool! Soulja boy is very tame of course compared to a lot of stuff, they've edited it so it can be consumed by younger kids, I guess, but at the end of the day, the message is clear, once you have deciphered it of course, treating women like trash is acceptable and groovalicious and indeed will be promoted to an ever-widening, ever younger audience and I reckon as parents we need to oppose it but that is just my opinion and as an individual I have suffered greatly at the hands of misogynists so it really hits a bum-note with me. I do think that as parents we should at least oppose it as we would maybe not buy stuff from shops that get rich of the backs of poor, badly treated workers, not a huge problem for me as I am too poor to buy much stuff which is fine with me. I grew up in the uk in the 70's through the punk era and I only censored, yep censored, one song in case my foster mother heard it, it was bring on the nubiles by the stranglers because of the f-word hehe and it fair used to bug me having to jump up to do that, I think she came in one day and said it's ok I heard it! aargh! Most of the rest I listened to was just noise to her, uk subs, clash, poison girls, damned,x-ray spex,ian dury,cure, crass etc. Also all the rock music and blues I could get my hands on. I still listen to all that stuff today.In the context of most rap music I feel it's not very intelligent and uses women to promote it's unworthy message. I'd imagine no woman on this site agrees with misogyny, maybe for some people it's just becoming an unavoidable part of growing up in a world that cashes in on everthing especially that which will hurt others. Also the mass-marketing is something to think about, maybe stick something else on before the song is indellibly imprinted on our brains forever but honestly I doubt soulja boy will be played in 20 years time like say the stones but I wonder how far lyrics will have gone by then to further debase women, scary. In my day lyrics were all about miners strikes, anti-authorities, that *** Thatcher, anger and disgust about women and children being abused, breaking free from the chains of the last generations and all that oppression, singing about sticking sheets to your ho's back with your sperm seems like a mighty step backwards.
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#127 of 184 Old 02-04-2008, 03:27 PM
 
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I honestly think that nobody here has suggested or would lock their kids in their room cos they want to do something we as their parents disagree with, I think we are all a bit more open-minded than that and it is not really possible to do that unless you are a complete bampot who actually thinks that is a good way to parent. As for making my kids believe what I believe well, good grief I may as well have given birth to sheep. But if my kids left home believing it is ok to debase women I'd feel I had significantly failed as a parent.
Okay. But you *did* say:

Quote:
If my child wanted to eat 20 big macs a day should I just let them in case I am censoring my childs wishes? Should I allow them to smoke , if they have started, voice my disagreement with it, issue some health warnings and just let them get on with it?
you seem to be saying, from that quote, that moms who let their kids listen to "misogynistic" lyrics, even though they've voiced disagreement, are somehow doing the wrong thing. You ask "Should just let them?" as if there is an alternative....so what i am asking you, is....is there an alternative? Some parents would forbid it outright. Many moms here have posted *why* they would not do that, why they would "just let them" (which doesnt really describe what is actually occurring...there is probably lots of discussion and learning going on)....if you are uncomfortable with allowing your child to make the choice to listen to something (or eat something or smoke something) that you find offensive, what is your alternative? This isnt a hypothetical, i really want to know how you handle such situations (when you and your child disagree) if it differs from how UnschoolnMa (for example) handles it.

Katherine

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#128 of 184 Old 02-04-2008, 03:42 PM
 
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Who thinks up this stuff? So weird to have a term for such a ridiculous act.
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#129 of 184 Old 02-04-2008, 03:52 PM
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If she loves to dance, and likes hip hop, there are a TON of positive, socially-conscious groups that rock mad beats. I personally think that Soulja Boy sucks.
A bit OT, but I'm always looking for recommendations!! *hint, hint*
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#130 of 184 Old 02-04-2008, 04:24 PM
 
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For a lot of songs, once I hear the Weird Al version the "regular" version is too boring. For some of them, the regular version also doesn't scan well enough or have enough of a melody.

Back on topic, there is a huge difference between not buying something yourself and censorship. Wishing for the magical ability to make artists stop producing misogynist music is not the same as wishing that the misogynist music would be outlawed.

Interestingly, the misogynist music problem isn't new or limited to one genre:
from the 1930's "hello my baby, hello my honey....if you refuse me, honey you'll lose me"
And from the world of top-40's pop:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0S8wBNoiv90 check out the commentary on Sugar Ray.

(The guy reading it is hysterical! This site is similarly funny, but not kid friendly: http://www.raptranslations.com/ )
There's also "Run for your Life" by the Beatles (a more deadly version of "Before He Cheats" I guess) and "Under My Thumb" by the Stones.
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#131 of 184 Old 02-04-2008, 04:48 PM
 
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Okay. But you *did* say:



you seem to be saying, from that quote, that moms who let their kids listen to "misogynistic" lyrics, even though they've voiced disagreement, are somehow doing the wrong thing. You ask "Should just let them?" as if there is an alternative....so what i am asking you, is....is there an alternative? Some parents would forbid it outright. Many moms here have posted *why* they would not do that, why they would "just let them" (which doesnt really describe what is actually occurring...there is probably lots of discussion and learning going on)....if you are uncomfortable with allowing your child to make the choice to listen to something (or eat something or smoke something) that you find offensive, what is your alternative? This isnt a hypothetical, i really want to know how you handle such situations (when you and your child disagree) if it differs from how UnschoolnMa (for example) handles it.

Katherine
Well, no I am not saying moms who let their dc listen to soulja boy are doing something wrong, who the heck am I to judge another? It all depends on what we are disagreeing with, if my kid wants to buy a £40 dress because everyone else wants it I would say to her you are being ripped off but she will probably go out and buy it, it's her cash, she works for it. I have spent enough time and energy informing my dc about stuff like health etc enough time cooking nutritious meals on a low budget for 15 yrs, if she goes out and eats garbage on a regular basis she will feel the ill-effects of that and she doesn't get it at home so she can come home to good meals. If my child was listening to stuff like soulja boy and I heard it I wouldn't even know what the lyrics were about because they've ben 'cleaned up' but if the lyrics were not hiding and it was bla bla bla ho I would deffo suggest alternative listening to them and explain why, I wouldn't bin tho I would like to, but it would not be in my earshot just like the tons of adverts on tv and crappy tv programs will not be a backdrop to my indoor life, my dc don't listen to stuff like soulja boy, it's not to their taste so I can't say what I would do if one of my dc were say constantly listening to stuff that debases women, I reckon I would not be very happy being subjected to it, I'm just glad my dc are not influenced by that stuff so much that they actually want to listen to it. My eldest dd listened to it on youtube last night after asking me what I was writing and she just looked perplexed, it's such a duff song imo,I guess we all have different tastes, but ultimately I would not encourage my dc to listen to that crap, in fact I would discourage them and my dc are free spirits to do and listen to what they want and my dc would not want to listen to that stuff simply because it's sexist, they are quite discerning in their music tastes. I know someone who got rid of every barbie doll their child was given, that was their choice as parents I certainly didn't think oh my gosh censorship, that was just their choice as parents. I know another parent who would not use the word 'sex' in front of their kids and they were at least 8, I thought that a bit wierd but again their choice as parents, just as it is a parents choice to allow or not allow their dc to listen to soulja boy.
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#132 of 184 Old 02-04-2008, 06:00 PM
 
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As for women's songs that denigrate men, I say, it's the voices of the oppressed expressing themselves. I'd like a songlist of those if someone has one. I'd like to put them in my ipod for research hour. La, la, la, la, la... "and Earl had to die. Na na na na na na, na, na na..." Dixie Chicks.

Night... finally. Long, long weekend...

VF
Goodbye Earl is a little different -- Wanda was acting in self-defense after "Earl walked right through that restraining order and put her in intensive care." Mary Ann didn't really have a good defense and the smug tone does bother me. It makes me think of the part in Fried Green Tomatoes when they kill what's-her-name's husband and hide the body in a BBQ (why can't I think of her name?) That was handled in more of a "did what we had to do" way than a "yippee look what we got away with!" way.
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#133 of 184 Old 02-04-2008, 06:27 PM
 
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it's not to their taste so I can't say what I would do if one of my dc were say constantly listening to stuff that debases women, I reckon I would not be very happy being subjected to it
For the most part my kids and I have found ways around that issue. If I don't want to hear or see something they are listening to or watching they take it to headphones, or watch/listen to it in another room if it's at all possible. That way they can listen to what they want, and no one has to be uncomfortable. It's all about respect.

Quote:
just as it is a parents choice to allow or not allow their dc to listen to soulja boy.
Many parents make that choice for their kids, but I don't feel that it's my choice to make.

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#134 of 184 Old 02-04-2008, 09:07 PM
 
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I don't care for misogyny, not "men."

There are plenty of women misogynists, you may be surprised to learn. I'm not.

I am so glad to have heard the intelligent commentary by forthebest and others on this thread. Thank you for weighing in here. I hear you; your remarks make absolute sense.

I appreciate the type of parenting such as USM, and MarineWife and others espouse using. Educate, discuss, share with your teenagers. (Don't tell, but that is how us others are, too, clearly, but it's more fun to argue with us if you believe that we're carrying picket signs at record companies after we lock our children in the house, windows blacked-out, so, go on, continue; you are anyway, so you might as well have my invitation.)

"You must hate men." Hillary Rodham Clinton, how do you make that leap? Have you read all of my other threads or something?

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#135 of 184 Old 02-04-2008, 11:13 PM
 
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I appreciate the type of parenting such as USM, and MarineWife and others espouse using. Educate, discuss, share with your teenagers. (Don't tell, but that is how us others are, too, clearly, but it's more fun to argue with us if you believe that we're carrying picket signs at record companies after we lock our children in the house, windows blacked-out, so, go on, continue; you are anyway, so you might as well have my invitation.)

Slightly OT: I don't want to derail this interesting thread, but what's up with the inflammatory posting style? "Its more fun to argue" and "You might as well have my invitation" ?? I don't really see those types of phrases as all that helpful to discussion.

Anyway, regarding the part I bolded... It's not clear at all that you are parenting or approaching the same way me and Marinewife are. If so, I am not sure we'd be debating this issue.

So let me just come right out and ask the question plainly then: Is your child free to listen to music that you personally do not like/value/approve of or would you not allow them to buy it, have it, or listen to it? That's really what it comes down to here I think.

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#136 of 184 Old 02-04-2008, 11:58 PM
 
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And how, may I ask, is our society going to shift away from it? Does it have an appointment to shift?

I would suggest that society has an "impetus" to shift, an impetus fed by ME, saying, "Hey, NO MORE of this. It's not nice, it hurts our society, stop it."

And racism, as you said, is NOT over... no, and it likely never will be as much as most people would like it to be (over).

BUT, it has weakened enormously, and shows signs of weakening a LOT more, as it should. Racist images and sounds in the media have lessened incredibly... you had to be alive before the Civil Rights Movement to appreciate the enormity of the changes. Do you think that racist images and recordings only started to disappear AFTER the civil rights movement, or after the "shift," however you see that?

The businesses that distribute these sounds and images respond to the language of the dollar: if the public ain't buyin'; the studio/record company ain't sellin.' It starts with public outcry: Don't buy these misogynistic products purposely and deliberately. And don't defend them... good grief, they've really got you where they want you then. It makes one a handmaiden for misogynists.

Oh, btw, misogyny isn't a little men's club downtown with weekly harmless fun and annual do-gooder missions: Misogyny is woman-hating. Hate. Hate. Not dislike, not criticism, not the good-natured, "Women. Can't live with em, can't live without em," guys from the block attitude about his beloved wife, who he really loves, admires and respects. It's a man who views vagina-bearing human beings as pieces of sh-- to do with, or not, whatever he wants, from using them as a kleenex to masturbate into to a piece of traction on the highway of HIS LIFE. Objects of love... NOOOO, a misogynist does not understand or feel LOVE as we know it. They have want and don't want. He uses words and his body to hurt, deface, bring down, dehumanize women. And when it is done with music, or dance, or pictures, or movies, I AM NOT BUYING. And I am not going to lob that enormous, flame-loaded spear at my daughter's heart by simply discussing with her that... that what... that some men who masquerade as being nice, and cool, and with it, and who may even be hot and attractive and even SWEET in a conversation, are singing out to the world a so-called SONG, or TRACK, to the world where they say these absolutely insulting things about women, generally, and they want to or do really nasty things to them that hurt them and make them cry, or where they actually talk like they want to kill her, and exactly how they want to kill her. And don't listen to it, or be wierded out at all if the little boy or young man you have a serious crush on starts saying those same words out loud while he's grooving along with his IPOD... they don't really MEAN that."

"Then why do they say it, Mom? Why don't they say what they MEAN, then, Mom and Dad? Can I have a peanut butter sandwich, Daddy? What are young men thinking about... Dad? Do you think that way? Thanks for taking off the crusts, Daddy. Do you ever say that or do that to Mom? Will someone want to do that to me?

::Puke

That's where her thinking is going to take her to. I'm against that. I am crying out. Shut that stuff down. Don't buy it, don't defend it, don't explain it: don't put it into their mp3 player. It's not that hard. Other people can still get it, listen to it, let your kid listen to it, throw a party with it and invite your kids, and YOUR decision to PARENT the heck out of the situation as much as you can if that is only to not allow them to play it at home or to load it into the mp3 player that you bought them, will impact your children's growth and maturity in a really good way, as good as the growth and maturity that might--maybe--come if you just give them the reins on it, which imo, for children in elementary school for sure, is not a good thing at all. They're not ready, they cannot comprehend without some psychic damage what it's all about and what it means about a lot of things. I feel my child is really deep, smart, aware, precocious... and all that stuff, but she is a child with a child's development. She is still under my protection for this reason, so says Nature and Society.

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#137 of 184 Old 02-05-2008, 08:16 AM
 
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:
And look, I already said it! (in the reference to my own lengthy post that theretohere quoted. I'm saying "yeah that" to basically my own post, and "yeah that," to theretohere who apparently resonated with what I said. Thanks theretohere.

Yes, that, UnschoolnMa.

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#138 of 184 Old 02-05-2008, 09:11 AM
 
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And look, I already said it! Thanks theretohere.

Yes, that, UnschoolnMa.

VF

Actually, i think UnschoolnMa had a very good question, that you didnt even come close to answering, which was this:

Quote:
Anyway, regarding the part I bolded... It's not clear at all that you are parenting or approaching the same way me and Marinewife are. If so, I am not sure we'd be debating this issue.
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#139 of 184 Old 02-05-2008, 09:18 AM
 
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And look, I already said it! Thanks theretohere.

Yes, that, UnschoolnMa.

VF
I'm sorry but I don't understand what you are "yeah that" about here. It's really late though, so it's very possible that I am just missing it.

I asked: Is your child free to listen to music that you personally do not like/value/approve of or would you not allow them to buy it, have it, or listen to it?


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#140 of 184 Old 02-05-2008, 03:04 PM
 
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Originally Posted by UnschoolnMa View Post
I'm sorry but I don't understand what you are "yeah that" about here. It's really late though, so it's very possible that I am just missing it.

I asked: Is your child free to listen to music that you personally do not like/value/approve of or would you not allow them to buy it, have it, or listen to it?

I don't get it, either. I don't see an answer to the question.

Here's what was said in a previous post, though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Viewfinder
Shut that stuff down. Don't buy it, don't defend it, don't explain it: don't put it into their mp3 player...not allow them to play it at home or to load it into the mp3 player that you bought them
I think that says it all. We do not parent the same way.

I think it's important, too, to point out, as a few others have, that we are not generally talking about elementary school children here. I know that preteen is sometimes defined as young as 9. In my mind, I think of preteen no younger than 10. Yes, that's still elementary school in some places, middle school in others, and different from a 5 or 7 or 8yo.

I have a had a group of 16-19yos in my house for a few days now (loving it, btw!) so I asked them all about the song. After getting over the initial, "ewww. I am NOT talking about this with my friend's mom!" they all said they don't listen to it. They don't like it. They think it's crap. I asked if they knew what the words meant and, to my surprise, although they all agreed that it was sexual in nature, and not what might be considered normal sex, they didn't know the definition of supermanning that has been presented here. Then I went a little further and asked them if they would knowingly listen to and support songs that glamourize violence against women. They were all disgusted by that and say they would not.

My oldest ds listened to a lot of what I considered very disturbing music when he was a preteen (10-12). I never forbid it, although many times I asked him not to play it around me because I did not like it. He did not turn into some kind of violent deviant. I think it does a serious disservice to our young people to assume they can't handle such things.

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#141 of 184 Old 02-05-2008, 05:27 PM
 
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I never forbid it, although many times I asked him not to play it around me because I did not like it. He did not turn into some kind of violent deviant. I think it does a serious disservice to our young people to assume they can't handle such things.
My boys play some games that have music which makes me physically anxious. I just ask them to turn the sound down after a while. I wouldn't ask them not to play the game.

I'm beginning to see this thread as being more about our hope that our children will 'inherit' our values whichever point on the continuum and this applies to so many situations with growing young people like the thread on Lactivism about our children breastfeeding our grandchildren.

Ultimately we are nurturing people who have their own thoughts and feeling and all we can do is offer guidance, support and love. What are you telling your teen if you remove their right to choose what to listen to? It reminds me of those houses with lots of cupboard and drawer locks where I wonder if there is a magic age when they will be deemed unecessary.
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#142 of 184 Old 02-05-2008, 05:55 PM
 
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Originally Posted by UnschoolnMa View Post
My Dd loves the song, and maybe more importantly the dance to the song. It's extremely popular right now. Just check Youtube for about 8,000 different versions.

We talk about lyrics a lot in our family and this song is no exception. My Dd is aware that many songs she finds catchy have lyrics that talk about things she personally may not value, but in many cases she can seperate the lyrics from enjoying the sound or beat of a song. She doesn't think of/ refer to women as "ho's" and she wouldn't think too highly of someone who did, but none of that is necessary to enjoy the song. For example, I really like "Soldier" by Destiny's Child. I find the lyrics a bit silly, but the song overall always has caught my attention and made me feel happy or upbeat. That's a good thing right? Hearing lyrics doesn't mean we have to agree with what they are talking about.

Everyone has their own limits of course, and they are likely going to be different for everyone. We don't censor media, but we do talk about it a lot. It's an interesting subject.
Yeah this.

I'm one of those people that like some songs for the beat. It's what I like to listen to in club and what I like to "dance" to (it thats what you want to call it ) ) When I go back and actually listen to the lyrics it's a little embarrassing to admit I enjoyed dancing to it at one time.

My DSD loves that song, knows the lyrics and the dance...but has absolutely no idea what it means. She talks about boys that go around slapping the girls backs hollering that they "Supermanned that ho" (rolls eyes...real mature). I wanted to explain to her why that isn't okay...and what the meaning of it is...but my husband told me no. She's too young to know that. She's 12.

I dont' agree but whatever...not my place to step over him.
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#143 of 184 Old 02-05-2008, 06:19 PM
 
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I dont' agree but whatever...not my place to step over him.
Maybe you could bring it to the attention of the school (what the boys are doing AND the meaning).

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#144 of 184 Old 02-05-2008, 09:45 PM
 
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My DSD loves that song, knows the lyrics and the dance...but has absolutely no idea what it means. She talks about boys that go around slapping the girls backs hollering that they "Supermanned that ho" (rolls eyes...real mature). I wanted to explain to her why that isn't okay...and what the meaning of it is...but my husband told me no. She's too young to know that. She's 12.

I dont' agree but whatever...not my place to step over him.
That's too bad. IMO, once someone is exposed to something they should get an explanation regardless of their age, especially if it's something that is potentially abusive. Are the boys doing this to her? You can always adjust the explanation based on age and maturity.

I agree that it might be a good idea to bring the behavior of the boys to the attention of someone at the school. In the schools my ds went to, it wouldn't matter what the meaning behind the behavior was, it wouldn't be tolerated because of the zero tolerance policy about touching. That's one very good way to show everyone that what is espoused in the song is not acceptable.

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#145 of 184 Old 02-06-2008, 03:49 AM
 
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the kid who wrote the song is young, in his teens. I really don't think it is that big of a deal if they are listening to the censored version
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#146 of 184 Old 02-06-2008, 11:11 PM
 
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supersoak that ho is actually pretty self explanatory. its not like kids dont already know what its talkin about. and if they don't know then it doesn't hurt them b/c they don't know.

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#147 of 184 Old 02-07-2008, 08:00 AM
 
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okay am i the only oen who doesnt see this as a huge issue?

i see how this superman thing is, since the description alludes to the girl not wanting it..but other than that...im just not going to get riled up about semen being on a body as long as its cool with whoever its being put on, sorry.


the calling women hos thing is a problem, yes but the other stuff being discussed.. :
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#148 of 184 Old 02-07-2008, 11:45 AM
 
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AHHHH! I've only read about half of the responses to this, but I couldn't stop myself from commenting RIGHT NOW. I'm horrified! Seeing so many mothers here say things like

"Remember the XYZ dirty sings from our generation and we are okay..."
"Kids are too little to understand XYZ nasty innuendo..."
"They are just listening to the beat, not the words..."
... And other such nonsense.

First, I'd like to say that we DIDN'T turn out okay. If our parents, and we as parents weren't influenced negatively by the exploitation of something meant to be BEAUTIFUL then why are people our age and their children, OUR children, still coming up with such terribly horrible lyrics?... Why are the masses still entertained by this garbage? People are effected by this, whether they know it or not, or are willing to admit it or not. Which brings me to this...

MDC is a place, I'll assume, where many of us understand that the environment we live in effects us on a subconscious level. For instance the child surrounded by darkness, even if he/she "understands" that their is light, will still grow to reflect darkness. The child surrounded by light will always reflect light. Knowing this how can we expose our children to such crap when we KNOW that it is negative? How can we condone that? I'll take a moment and be paranoid for the sake of my children... Think about how music has been used a weapon. I don't know the exact scenario, but somewhere heavy metal was blasted 24/7 and it worked to drive the people they were after half crazy. I'm sure the people who were on the defense "knew it was just music" but eventually the negativity with which it was delivered got to them. And we all know about subliminal messages and how things imprint upon the mind... If our eyes are open, they can't not see something, and if we can hear, we have no filter for what is heard. Post traumatic stress syndrome anyone? Hearins something horrible or seeing something awful, and not being bothered until many years down the road? Knowing these things, how can we stand by and say that our children won't be negatively effected, that they are "just listening to the beat"? *shudder*

Now I'm on a bit of a rant, and some of that might not fit together cohesively, so please don't flame me on a technicality, but think about it. REALLY. If we allow things like this in our children's lives, and stand by letting the media make our decisions for us, let our children's peers make the choices, then it will only get worse. Society is as screwed up as it is today for a reason... Complacency. Makes me want to vomit. Hooray to the mother's here who stood up and said it's not acceptable. For the rest of you... Forget about what is politically correct and think about the innocence of your pure sweet children being smashed over a stupid stupid song with a mildly catchy beat.
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#149 of 184 Old 02-07-2008, 11:59 AM
 
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A note about giving our kids the info to make informed descisions. That's great, by all means do that. They'll need that guidance to deal with the fact that our world today is largely full of ickiness. But in no way should society be allowing this to go on. We shouldn't be standing by saying "they'll get exposed sooner or later". We should be working TODAY to make sure that the world our grand babies will live in, and their babies after them and so on, won't be full of such terrible terrible things. I know life has it's bad moments, but we don't need to be generating them... Profiting off of the generation of negativity. It's NOT okay, on any level.
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#150 of 184 Old 02-07-2008, 12:35 PM
 
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Originally Posted by StrongBeliever View Post
"Remember the XYZ dirty sings from our generation and we are okay..."
"Kids are too little to understand XYZ nasty innuendo..."
"They are just listening to the beat, not the words..."
... And other such nonsense.

First, I'd like to say that we DIDN'T turn out okay. If our parents, and we as parents weren't influenced negatively by the exploitation of something meant to be BEAUTIFUL then why are people our age and their children, OUR children, still coming up with such terribly horrible lyrics?... Why are the masses still entertained by this garbage? People are effected by this, whether they know it or not, or are willing to admit it or not. Which brings me to this...
Actually, I think I turned out mostly okay and at some point, what my children say and do is their choice. I hope to have some positive influence there, but I am not programming robots. I'm raising individual human beings.

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Originally Posted by StrongBeliever View Post
MDC is a place, I'll assume, where many of us understand that the environment we live in effects us on a subconscious level. For instance the child surrounded by darkness, even if he/she "understands" that their is light, will still grow to reflect darkness. The child surrounded by light will always reflect light. Knowing this how can we expose our children to such crap when we KNOW that it is negative? How can we condone that?
Emphasis mine. Uh, what? I think there are plenty of people who have lived through a lot of direct, physical, purposeful abuse and neglect who survive and thrive and do amazing, inspiring things.

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Originally Posted by StrongBeliever View Post
I'll take a moment and be paranoid for the sake of my children... Think about how music has been used a weapon. I don't know the exact scenario, but somewhere heavy metal was blasted 24/7 and it worked to drive the people they were after half crazy. I'm sure the people who were on the defense "knew it was just music" but eventually the negativity with which it was delivered got to them.
Are you talking about psychological warfare? That's a pretty extreme example to put up against Crank That by Soulja Boy. For that to hold any water, you'll have to provide the specific instance.

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Originally Posted by StrongBeliever View Post
And we all know about subliminal messages and how things imprint upon the mind... If our eyes are open, they can't not see something, and if we can hear, we have no filter for what is heard. Post traumatic stress syndrome anyone? Hearins something horrible or seeing something awful, and not being bothered until many years down the road? Knowing these things, how can we stand by and say that our children won't be negatively effected, that they are "just listening to the beat"? *shudder*
How can you properly prepare your child for living in this society as a well-adjusted, productive adult if you're putting blinders on him? Ignoring something, shoving it under the carpet, pretending it doesn't exist does NOT change the fact that it is there. Addressing it, explaining why you don't like it, why you hope they won't support it with their own time and money - those are the keys to change.

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Originally Posted by StrongBeliever View Post
If we allow things like this in our children's lives, and stand by letting the media make our decisions for us, let our children's peers make the choices, then it will only get worse. Society is as screwed up as it is today for a reason... Complacency. Makes me want to vomit. Hooray to the mother's here who stood up and said it's not acceptable. For the rest of you... Forget about what is politically correct and think about the innocence of your pure sweet children being smashed over a stupid stupid song with a mildly catchy beat.
1. I don't let the media make my decisions.
2. I don't let my children's peers make my choices.
3. I'm involved, not complacent.
4. I'm hardly politically correct. I have trouble seeing how that fits in here. In fact, the only way I can squash it in is if I see my side of this argument as being very NON-PC.
5. My children are precious to me, but since they're human beings living in a world filled with other human beings, they are not pure and innocent. "Soulja Boy" has nothing to do with that, either.
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