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#61 of 137 Old 06-14-2008, 03:55 AM
 
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Just some thoughts about why an uncomforable adult would still shower...

Maybe the daughter doesn't like to shower alone? Maybe it is the only way to get her to shower at his house? Maybe she isn't very efficient at bathing herself and wants an adult in there? Maybe she was afraid to take a shower alone during the rainstorm?

I only have a 2 year old and a newborn, but I already do things that make me plenty uncomfotable for both their benefit. Sometimes you just have to put your kids needs first. I mean hell, I am 22 and sometimes I still need someone sitting on the edge of the bathtub with me if I bathe at night, or my mom to come into the bathroom with me when I visit because I am afraid of her house.

In our culture it is pretty much viewed as unacceptable for a preteen to bathe with an opposite sex parent (or any parent, really) so even if there was nothing wrong going on, you could still get the red flags just because it is so culturally inapproprate.


ahhh wall of text. Just my ideas and frist thoughts on the situation.
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#62 of 137 Old 06-14-2008, 01:04 PM
 
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I don't see what is so odd about it but then again in my culture kids and parents go to the sauna together (naked) until.. well, actually, we still go to the sauna together with my parents and I'm 31. But I guess it is a cultural difference then.

If either one of them is feeling uncomfortable, then they should probably stop doing it.
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#63 of 137 Old 06-15-2008, 11:11 AM
 
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My first thought upon reading this thread is "no way." I wouldn't permit it and in no way does it seem like something normal to me.

But I realize all people are different. I think it would depend on their relationship too and if they've been doing something like this all along. For instance, my DH has "never" showered with any of our children nor has he let them see him completely nude unless it was by accident, so he would in no way feel comfortable showering with our DD now and she's 6. However, if he had been doing it all along then I doubt it would bother him.

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#64 of 137 Old 06-15-2008, 11:16 AM
 
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Originally Posted by veronicalynne View Post
I would not be comfortable either. My dd1 who is now 3 1/2 stopped showering with her dad when she was about 3. It was his choice because she was getting kind of curious. I definitely would not be comfortable if she was 10 and showering with her dad.
That was the thought that first entered my mind. My kids all started getting curious and asking questions around the age of 3-5 yrs old. I bathed with my boys and I still bathe with DD from time to time (she's 6). My oldest was 8 when he was bathing with both siblings and that was it for him. He got to where he would wear his underwear in the tub because he didn't want them to see him.

It's one thing to let my children see me from time to time if they catch a glimpse of me dressing I guess. But I'm just not of the thinking that as a child gets older that it has to be the norm to see their adult parent naked in front of them at regular intervals. And I think the majority agrees with that. Some families may be totally open with nakedness but usually it's the majority that is not.

I feel that at a certain age a child needs to be able to be able to be more personal and private about their bodies. There's nothing wrong with that IMO.

I will admit I'm a bit more open around my DD with my nakedness. I dress in front of my DD and she will ask why I'm wearing certain undies and other questions about my breasts and I use it as a time to talk about our bodies. I see nothing wrong with it. I don't want her to be shy and afraid to show off her body. BUT I don't think I could have done that with my boys. I definitely feel more comfortable around my DD.

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#65 of 137 Old 06-15-2008, 11:27 AM
 
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I don't see what is so odd about it but then again in my culture kids and parents go to the sauna together (naked) until.. well, actually, we still go to the sauna together with my parents and I'm 31. But I guess it is a cultural difference then.

If either one of them is feeling uncomfortable, then they should probably stop doing it.
other cultures definitely have a healthier attitude about nudity.

i for one have never been of the sentiment that the majority is "right"..any time im in the majority, i start questioning why im there. lol!
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#66 of 137 Old 06-15-2008, 11:34 AM
 
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If he's not comfortable with it, I would say go with that. Men are not without instincts, so he probably knows it's time to not share showers. Although, it does sound like it's not a usual thing and just happened because they got caught in the rain.
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#67 of 137 Old 06-15-2008, 08:28 PM
 
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I've just been dealing with this issue on another thread in the childhood years w/ my 8 yo dd and her dad. If we were in Europe or somewhere that nudity and sex weren't confused as one in the same, it would be a none issue. I *know* her dad is not doing anything inappropriate, I just got caught up in the fear of closed minded people around me. As long as both parties are ok, then it should be ok.

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#68 of 137 Old 06-15-2008, 08:53 PM
 
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I would not be comfortable with it, natural born or step.
What she said! DSD is TEN; dad is uncomfortable; stepmom is uncomfortable - came here to ask opinions. Honestly, you are putting the girl at risk - because if she mentions that she takes a shower with dad and is overheard by her pediatrician, teacher, etc, they are REQUIRED to report that to the state. Even if it is completely innocent, it could cause a rash of trouble. DSD is too old. I'd put a stop to it today.

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This brings to mind an issue at our house that I have a hard time figuring out.
Dd is 13, quite developed and quite modest. Fine.
DS1 is 11, small, no signs of puberty and very comfortable being naked. I ask him to respect other people's modesty and at least put on underpants. DH thinks it's fine that DS is comfortable with his body and I should ease up a bit.
I'm not sure. I totally see DH's point.
Feedback?
I vote with you. At my house, underwear is the absolute minimum for everyone - even dd3 who just turned five. I made her wear underwear or a diaper as a minimum at all ages really. I'm just not down with her running around naked - anyone could come to the back door (which is a full window door) or walk by the house (family room has a huge, almost wall sized window that shows out on to the well used street). Eight and under, you can run from the bath to your room for jammies, but not older than that.

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i was not putting words in your mouth. your words are quoted below for anyone to see.

what you are suggesting is that we mothers need to protect our daughters from their fathers. you are saying, here and below, that if we dont prevent fathers from showering with daughters, that we are allowing child sex abuse to continue...this is basically a conviction of all fathers...below you say its inappropriate period.

i just do not understand your logic. I do not think all daughters need to be protected from their fathers, by their mothers.

I just can not see your views as anything other than a conviction of all fathers.
I think you are misreading thismama, and I don't understand your logic in replying to her post. I don't see her convicting all fathers by believing that a pre-teen shouldn't shower with a grown man, related by blood or not. All mothers don't have to protect their daughters from all fathers. And I don't see her saying that a father who showers with a pre-teen daughter is necessarily doing other, more sinister things while in there. Just that it is inherently a bad idea, and shouldn't happen. At least that is how I read it - and I agree 100%.
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#69 of 137 Old 06-16-2008, 09:38 PM
 
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OP, if you don't have any children with the guy, maybe you should get out now.....

It seems like you have a red flag going up here.
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#70 of 137 Old 06-16-2008, 09:49 PM
 
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teh wrestling comment was in reguards to 5in9years post about her dh not wanting to wrestle with his dds anymore. i think that is just sad. not all touching is bad touching. not every man is out to molest his children. maybe i am just a weirdy here that my family actually touches each other and *gasp* nothing nasty happens.

h
I don't recall typing that he stopped touching them. Dh still hugs, kisses, and snuggles with the older girls. He plays games with them that involve shoving and jostling. He is just uncomfortable rolling around on the floor with them with the potential for accidentally grabbing breasts or genitals. Since he is uncomfortable, he has a right to limit their physical contact, right? Or do only kids have that right?
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#71 of 137 Old 06-16-2008, 10:11 PM
 
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No. Not okay. Because I'm a close minded prude and I say so.
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#72 of 137 Old 06-16-2008, 11:13 PM
 
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Don't put words in my mouth. I'm not saying this father is a perp, and I'm not saying he doesn't love his child as much as the mother does. I'm saying that it's not appropriate IMO for either parent to shower with an opposite gender child of this age. Period.

I am also saying it is NOT sexist to acknowledge that the vast majority of perps of child sexual abuse are (het) men, and to take extra precautions based on that. Sexual abuse of children is rampant, most of it is committed by men who they know and who everyone thinks is a normal, great guy... fathers, step fathers, brothers, neighbours, teachers. Regular dudes, and a LOT of them (or a few who get around a lot but don't get caught, but my money is on the theory that it is a LOT of men, or the few who have many many many victims would eventually get caught, no?)

It is NOT only or mainly convicted, obvious paedophiles who we need to watch out for. THAT is reality. Sad reality, but reality, and there is nothing offensive about acknowledging it as such and taking steps to protect our children. What is offensive is allowing the epidemic of child sexual abuse to continue unchallenged coz we don't want to step on toes or gawd forbid be accused of 'reverse sexism.'



I couldn't agree more, Thismama. Our world/society is different and we have to protect our kids--whether we hurt feelings or not. I don't give a flying monkey about anyone's feelings (reverse sexism or whatever) when it comes to protecting my dd.

To the OP: Something is terribly wrong here. Really. I'd call the authorities and I'd run away from this guy. He should. not. be. showering. with. his. daughter. Holy crackerjacks
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#73 of 137 Old 06-16-2008, 11:16 PM
 
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I couldn't agree more, Thismama. Our world/society is different and we have to protect our kids--whether we hurt feelings or not. I don't give a flying monkey about anyone's feelings (reverse sexism or whatever) when it comes to protecting my dd.

To the OP: Something is terribly wrong here. Really. I'd call the authorities and I'd run away from this guy. He should. not. be. showering. with. his. teenage. daughter. Holy crackerjacks
teenage? I read 10
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#74 of 137 Old 06-16-2008, 11:18 PM
 
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teenage? I read 10
Yeah, my bad. I corrected it. Age, IMO doesn't matter. He should. not. be showering with her.
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#75 of 137 Old 06-16-2008, 11:25 PM
 
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i know this thread has gotten away from the op's issue, to that ita with pp who said it should be determined by the comfort level of the child & dad

otherwise to comment on the general discussion ...

i agree with snarfy and skai. nudity is way too big of deal imo. it leads to way too many problems. prudishness is the reason why we have to deal with negative comments while nip,because breasts can't be anything but sexual to most people. i want my kids to be comfortable with their own bodies, and I want them to understand that no one should do anything to their bodies that they don't want done and that they should respect other's bodies as well. i think being nude around your kids makes those lessons easier. so nudity is pretty commonplace in my family.

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#76 of 137 Old 06-16-2008, 11:28 PM
 
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My boys were somewhere in that age group when they were uncomfortable see me or me seeing them naked. ( started knocking at the bathroom door, quite just jumping in and joining me in the shower etc) BUT they were TOTALLY comfortable seeing me give birth to their brother when they were 12 &9.

If the dad and daughter are comfortable they it is fine.

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#77 of 137 Old 06-17-2008, 01:30 AM
 
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there are all sorts of issues here. When posts are deleted, there is not a fair balance.
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#78 of 137 Old 06-18-2008, 11:03 AM
 
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Originally Posted by skai View Post
I don't see what is so odd about it but then again in my culture kids and parents go to the sauna together (naked) until.. well, actually, we still go to the sauna together with my parents and I'm 31. But I guess it is a cultural difference then.

If either one of them is feeling uncomfortable, then they should probably stop doing it.
Yeah, i'm in Europe too. This is totally normal to me. I would shower with my kids any age we both felt comfy doing so. I shower with complete strangers at the gym and sit nude with strangers of both sexes and all ages in the sauna, so to me it is nothing at all.

I think all children begin to want privacy just around when puberty hits, i was about 10 when i suddenly began wanting to dress in my room instead of in front of the fire while my parents had breakfast. My folks never pushed it. A child seeking privacy is one thing, a parent inflicting it is a form of shaming i am WAY less comfortable with than nudity.

FWIW i was sexually abused by a male member of my family for 7 years. The form of the abuse was not that he had showers with me. It was that he had sex with me. If there is no difference between a shower and sex in your mind then either your sex life is moribund or your showers are VERY exciting.
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#79 of 137 Old 06-18-2008, 11:20 AM
 
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To the OP: Something is terribly wrong here. Really. I'd call the authorities and I'd run away from this guy. He should. not. be. showering. with. his. daughter. Holy crackerjacks
wow...i dont think CPS should be called b/c a loving father showers w/ his dd. thats just sad. And I do find it sad that the implication is that men cant handle themselves around their nude dd's.

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i
nudity is way too big of deal imo. it leads to way too many problems. prudishness is the reason why we have to deal with negative comments while nip,because breasts can't be anything but sexual to most people. i want my kids to be comfortable with their own bodies, and I want them to understand that no one should do anything to their bodies that they don't want done and that they should respect other's bodies as well. i think being nude around your kids makes those lessons easier. so nudity is pretty commonplace in my family.
pretty common in my family too and never an issue, until teh child has a need for privacy. it does relate to NIP and so many other hang ups we have about our bodies in this country.

i teach my children every day that their bodies are their own and that they, and others should respect them....but that certainly doesnt mean we are all always clothed.
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#80 of 137 Old 06-18-2008, 11:22 AM
 
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I am not understanding

1. The need to shower because you were in a rainstorm??

2. That the need to shower because of a rainstorm was desperate enough for people to shower together and someone couldn't wait a few minutes.

The whole thing boggles me.
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#81 of 137 Old 06-18-2008, 12:47 PM
 
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Yeah, i'm in Europe too. This is totally normal to me. I would shower with my kids any age we both felt comfy doing so. I shower with complete strangers at the gym and sit nude with strangers of both sexes and all ages in the sauna, so to me it is nothing at all.

I think all children begin to want privacy just around when puberty hits, i was about 10 when i suddenly began wanting to dress in my room instead of in front of the fire while my parents had breakfast. My folks never pushed it. A child seeking privacy is one thing, a parent inflicting it is a form of shaming i am WAY less comfortable with than nudity.

FWIW i was sexually abused by a male member of my family for 7 years. The form of the abuse was not that he had showers with me. It was that he had sex with me. If there is no difference between a shower and sex in your mind then either your sex life is moribund or your showers are VERY exciting.
Considering that spagettie straps are thought "immodest" and "asking for sex" by some in the US, are you surprised that a shared shower causes foaming at the mouth here? Skin = sex to a lot of Americans. This is the country that was founded by the Puritans and they never went away.
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#82 of 137 Old 06-18-2008, 03:35 PM
 
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was the door locked???
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#83 of 137 Old 06-18-2008, 04:14 PM
 
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I took showers with my father until puberty. There was nothing sexual, abusive, or otherwise inappropriate about it. Showering together saves water and can be a pleasant, relaxing time together. No big deal.

Not all 10-year-olds are pubescent.

I completely agree with the point several people have made: Shared showers should end when either party is uncomfortable. This is a problem in the OP. Her husband should tell his daughter he doesn't want to do it anymore and find another, clothed, way of bonding with her.

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#84 of 137 Old 06-19-2008, 12:04 AM
 
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Growing up I would not have showered with my father or mother but that was because I got picked on for my body, bodies were sexual, and it just wasn't the environment where it would ever happen.

My three month old babe is welcome to bathe with me or her father for as long as she is comfortable. I guess all families are different. We are always walking around naked, its just more comfortable.

Its sad to see the posts that think this is a red flag. I guess I shouldn't be suprised this is the society where people are on edge if a dad wrestles or even holds hands with his children.

Maybe I should move to Europe?

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#85 of 137 Old 06-19-2008, 12:10 AM
 
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I got molested as a child, and the grooming process started in the bathroom, complete with naked pictures of me, Children get molested in Europe too, please, this is not her child she had with the man and has seen interacting for the whole childs life, this is a guy with a failed marriage behind him and she is new on the scene, at least that was my take on it. Why people become outraged at the possible wrong accusation of something innappropriate is going on, I will not really don't understand. Go look up the registered sex offenders in your neighborhood. I am sure you will find some normal looking people on it.
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#86 of 137 Old 06-19-2008, 12:24 AM
 
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I got molested as a child, and the grooming process started in the bathroom, complete with naked pictures of me, Children get molested in Europe too, please, this is not her child she had with the man and has seen interacting for the whole childs life, this is a guy with a failed marriage behind him and she is new on the scene, at least that was my take on it. Why people become outraged at the possible wrong accusation of something innappropriate is going on, I will not really don't understand. Go look up the registered sex offenders in your neighborhood. I am sure you will find some normal looking people on it.
So now a failed marriage is a red flag for pedophiles? Does this refer to women as well or just men?
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#87 of 137 Old 06-19-2008, 12:31 AM
 
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So now a failed marriage is a red flag for pedophiles? Does this refer to women as well or just men?

i believe its just men. b/c we have already established here that its the men we need to worry about.
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#88 of 137 Old 06-19-2008, 12:41 AM
 
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i believe its just men. b/c we have already established here that its the men we need to worry about.
That's just facts. Unfortunate facts.
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#89 of 137 Old 06-19-2008, 01:27 AM
 
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I'd be uncomfortable with it in this society.

To my husband I am wife, to my kids I am mother, but for myself I am just me.
we're : with and : and
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#90 of 137 Old 06-19-2008, 02:42 AM
 
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That's just facts. Unfortunate facts.

:

Pull up the sex offender list at anytown, USA and what do you see? 99% men. I live in a small town of 800 people (one gas station and a church, very crime free, older people, etc). There's 5 MALE sexual offenders in my small town alone. (And how many more that just haven't been caught to wind up a registered sexual predator???)
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