DH Showers with dsd.. Is this OK? - Page 5 - Mothering Forums

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#121 of 137 Old 06-21-2008, 10:52 AM
 
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Originally Posted by choli View Post
And those red flags can be erroneous due to cultural indoctrination.
Yep. I never said otherwise.
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#122 of 137 Old 06-21-2008, 12:55 PM
 
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Stand up for your little girls. Their bodies are not a liability, the puritanical legal system and general societal norms that support it are.
YES!! Yes, yes, yes.....
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#123 of 137 Old 06-21-2008, 02:05 PM
 
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Reading these posts, if i were a man in america i'd be castrated ASAP to avoid the pointing finger! Paedophiles are people. Right? I'm not talking morally, i'm talking literally. So they will do what people do.

Yes, most paedophiles are men. NOT most MEN are paedophiles. Many paedophiles seek out work with children. NOT most people who work with children are paedophiles. SOme paedophiles abuse their own kids, NOT all parents abuse their kids. Most paedophiles have failed relationships. PRACTICALLY EVERYONE DOES! These random casual statistical relationships are doing NOTHING to prevent child abuse and are making everyone crazy about it all. 100% of people who die were breathing immediately beforehand - quick, everyone stop breathing! It kills you!

Protecting your child from the depraved parts of society isn't so simple as telling them to cover up and not mention their privates! My DD grabbing at mine or her dad's genitals is the PERFECT opportunity to say "yes, that's mama's vagina/dada's penis, we don't touch one anothers genitals sweetie". She will never remember being taught the lesson (she's only 2) but by the time she's old enough to be in danger (she is currently always either with myself or her father) she will know very well what is ok and what is not. Kids are curious. If you tell them not to touch or show or talk about their own genitals and never let them see your own you are missing a million SAFE opportunities for them to learn. If you think peadophiles don't know about and EXPLOIT this natural curiousity, so often crushed by reluctant parents who don't want to talk about "those things" you really ARE mad!

Studies done where convicted paedophiles were asked how they selected victims show that most will go for children who don't know the proper names for their genitals (a child who can shout in a park or a court "you're not allowed to touch my VAGINA" is a poor target for grooming and a giant liability, plus there can be no little "lessons" about how wonderful genitals can be, because the kid already knows and will think it's weird to be told in that context), children with low self-esteem and a strong sense of shame (because they don't LIKE feeling the shame and the paedophile can relieve them of it by telling them how beautiful/natural/wonderful their body is), children who are curious about genitals and haven't explored their curiousity with their parents (i.e. haven't been allowed to talk about it. A child who has never seen a penis is not going to react like a child who has seen dada's in the shower and knows that if you're not in the shower it is NOT OK to have your penis out!), children who lack confidence when talking to adults ("Seen and not heard" kids are less likely to tell and more likely to really deeply value the attention of the paedophile) and children who don't have many peer-age friends (again because they will value the contact enough to put up with the abuse).

Making NUDITY into the reason children get abused actually HELPS paedophiles. How many rapes are overturned because of how a woman is dressed? That's revolting - NOTHING gives someone the right to rape, NOTHING. There was a case in America several years ago where an 18 year old was not convicted after raping an 8 year old girl (they found his DNA inside her vagina and anus) because she had on RED panties and had "inflamed his passion". They had minnie mouse on them. But he got let off because the general consensus is that how you dress or don't dress can ACTUALLY give PERMISSION for someone to abuse, assault or rape you. Stand up for your little girls. Their bodies are not a liability, the puritanical legal system and general societal norms that support it are.
what an awesome post!

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Just popping in to mention that this was the OP's first post on MDC, a rather controversial one, which seems to have sparked off quite a heated discussion, though the OP said thanks on the first page and has not been back since, nor has she posted anywhere else on MDC.
still have sparked a great debate and i dont think it really matters whether it was a troll or not...but i don't think you can question that according to the UA....if you think that, you should contact an admin.

i have always lived in the US...i guess i just rebel against "cultural norms".
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#124 of 137 Old 06-25-2008, 02:50 AM
 
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This brings to mind an issue at our house that I have a hard time figuring out.
Dd is 13, quite developed and quite modest. Fine.
DS1 is 11, small, no signs of puberty and very comfortable being naked. I ask him to respect other people's modesty and at least put on underpants. DH thinks it's fine that DS is comfortable with his body and I should ease up a bit.
I'm not sure. I totally see DH's point.
Feedback?
What about a compromise? While your son is in his own room he can be naked as a jay-bird. Once he leaves his room, he's got to put on at least a pair of shorts.

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#125 of 137 Old 06-25-2008, 06:01 AM
 
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Respecting other people's modesty is NOT making them wear less than they're comfortable with. Wearing things so you don't offend people is shame.
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#126 of 137 Old 06-25-2008, 02:17 PM
 
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This is interesting because I've been encouraging my kids to keep clothes on in the house (well, the older 2-the 2 year old runs around with nothing but a diaper on, lol). We are not shy people, my kids see both of their parents, as well as their siblings nakey daily. However, we live in an apartment and constantly have kids and other adults walking past our windows. I am NOT saying they are pervs or anything of the sort-but I dont like them seeing either of my kids in nothing but undies. I dunno, I think its reasonable to ask an almost 6 year old and an 8 year old to throw something on when they are downstairs. And I open the shades because I need the sunlight to keep me from getting depressed (seriously, I think I have SAD or something, lol).

My girls take a bath together and will continue until one or both decide they dont want to anymore. My dd and ds also used to take baths together; my ds decided a couple of years ago he didnt want to anymore and that was fine.

I DO agree that being very hush hush and shy about bodyparts helps pedophiles. On the other hand though, I dont think its unreasonable to also teach appropriate times to strip naked My kids dont call their parts pee pees, they know the right names and use them, they already know what sex is, they also know that its not ok to touch other peoples genitals and that goes for their own as well. Someone telling them otherwise is wrong. (Although they do know that if I'm there and they see their doctor, its ok; we always ask first though. Its a matter of respect for their body.)

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#127 of 137 Old 07-01-2008, 09:22 PM
 
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I don't think this is appropriate and I'm not against nudity. I see a HUGE difference in parents seeing 10yo children naked or 10yos seeing their parents naked and both being naked to be within a foot of each other or bumping into each other naked in a shower. How do you all who accept this not see a difference??

Also, if there is no age limit, I wonder how many of you grown women still take occasional showers with your own fathers? Likely none, so I'm pretty certain a cutoff of appropriateness occurs.

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#128 of 137 Old 07-02-2008, 05:34 AM
 
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I BREASTFED my baby - we did a lot more than "bump" then, i can tell you! She was ACTUALLY sucking on my nipple *shock* *horror*!!! What harm did that cause her, psychologically? None. And what harm will it cause, a decade later, to be possibly bumped on the naked shoulder by a naked elbow...NONE!

I sure hope you don't hug your kids in summer when you both have light/skimpier clothes on. Imagine your skin touched!? Goodness KNOWS how much the therapy would cost...

And no, i haven't showered with my dad in the last 4 years (i'm 28) but i did at 24 when in a communal showering area on the continent where people don't faint at the idea of washing next to one another. We don't live together, so it never comes up that we'd shower together. Shockingly enough the reason we don't have sexual feelings for one another is BECAUSE HE IS MY FATHER, NOT because i was a child. You don't suddenly forget all your incest-aversion-instincts because you grew breasts.
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#129 of 137 Old 07-02-2008, 10:16 AM
 
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Originally Posted by GoBecGo View Post

And no, i haven't showered with my dad in the last 4 years (i'm 28) but i did at 24 when in a communal showering area on the continent where people don't faint at the idea of washing next to one another. We don't live together, so it never comes up that we'd shower together. Shockingly enough the reason we don't have sexual feelings for one another is BECAUSE HE IS MY FATHER, NOT because i was a child. You don't suddenly forget all your incest-aversion-instincts because you grew breasts.
On a somewhat similar note:
When I was growing up I loved to spend time with my mom while she got dressed. She primped and chose clothing, plucked and shaved and expertly applied makeup. Much of the time was in various stages of undress. When I came out to her at 17, she suddenly wouldn't let me watch her dress, she would no longer kiss or hug me. It hurt so badly that she imagined that just because I had sexual feelings for women that she might be included. That's just gross.
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#130 of 137 Old 07-02-2008, 04:48 PM
 
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Originally Posted by GoBecGo View Post
I BREASTFED my baby - we did a lot more than "bump" then, i can tell you! She was ACTUALLY sucking on my nipple *shock* *horror*!!!
You breastfeed your 10yo daughter??? No? Oh, well then that's a bit different.
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And no, i haven't showered with my dad in the last 4 years (i'm 28) but i did at 24 when in a communal showering area on the continent where people don't faint at the idea of washing next to one another.
Was this in a small shower stall together? Doubtful. Was it all alone together with no valid reason? No?

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#131 of 137 Old 07-02-2008, 04:50 PM
 
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You breastfeed your 10yo daughter??? No? Oh, well then that's a bit different.
Was this in a small shower stall together? Doubtful. Was it all alone together with no valid reason? No?
Must remember in future that my DH and DD will have to provide me with a valid reason before I will let them be alone together. God forbid a father and daughter should share some private time.
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#132 of 137 Old 07-02-2008, 06:45 PM
 
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Sorry, so if i have a shower over a bath (which is more spacious than a cubicle) then i CAN shower with my kids/parents, but if not then it's utterly perverted and i need to be really careful? It wasn't a single stall, it was 2 shower heads side by side in a communal shower. Some of the 10 or so minutes we were washing we were alone, some there were other men and women there. I wasn't paying that much attention, i was washing mud off my legs and feet, not panicking that i might be alone with the man i have known and trusted for my entire life, who changed my nappies, kissed my grazed knees, put up with my hormonal tantrums and generally is one of the most decent human beings i know.

I guess there's some study i'm not aware of whereby my dad 2 feet away is my dad but my dad 1 foot away is a crazy sexy stranger i MUST have. Bleurgh! He is MY FATHER! Have you NO decency!? Why would i feel sexually about my FATHER!? When my mom was terminally ill i had to do some VERY intimate post op (radical hysterectomy) and personal care for her (more intimate than i have yet to do with my toddler!). Luckily for me the sight of her genitals didn't send me into a sexual frenzy...

You're right, i don't BF a 10 year old. I didn't need to BF when i was 10. Haven't grown out of washing yet though...

hanno - that's just terrible hun
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#133 of 137 Old 07-02-2008, 06:48 PM
 
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I don't think this is appropriate and I'm not against nudity. I see a HUGE difference in parents seeing 10yo children naked or 10yos seeing their parents naked and both being naked to be within a foot of each other or bumping into each other naked in a shower. How do you all who accept this not see a difference??

Also, if there is no age limit, I wonder how many of you grown women still take occasional showers with your own fathers? Likely none, so I'm pretty certain a cutoff of appropriateness occurs.
Not showering, but hottubbing. It was better than going fully dressed, or not going at all because we didn't have suits with us. I think I was 17, and visiting him for the summer. We'd just got done stacking 2 cords of wood and were wiped out, needing a soak.

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#134 of 137 Old 07-04-2008, 10:57 PM
 
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When I came out to her at 17, she suddenly wouldn't let me watch her dress, she would no longer kiss or hug me. It hurt so badly that she imagined that just because I had sexual feelings for women that she might be included. That's just gross.
I am so sorry you went through this
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#135 of 137 Old 07-06-2008, 05:14 AM
 
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On a somewhat similar note:
When I was growing up I loved to spend time with my mom while she got dressed. She primped and chose clothing, plucked and shaved and expertly applied makeup. Much of the time was in various stages of undress. When I came out to her at 17, she suddenly wouldn't let me watch her dress, she would no longer kiss or hug me. It hurt so badly that she imagined that just because I had sexual feelings for women that she might be included. That's just gross.
Thats awful. I don't know what else to type, I hope that you're alright now. Sending you love. The stupid JOY smiley seems too ridiculous but if it didn't I'd send you a joy smiley.

"When the external begins to define the internal, instead of the internal defining the external, one begins living as a mortal rather than as a universal being." ~ unknown
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#136 of 137 Old 07-09-2008, 06:52 PM
 
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I don't think it's appropriate under any circumstances, birth daughter or not.
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#137 of 137 Old 07-09-2008, 08:48 PM
 
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My concern would be if Dd's body was starting to mature and she was uncomfortable. Also if Dh was uncomfortable he should have bowed out somehow. Maybe she is starved for attention (not sexually) and wants to have his attention in any form it is given ie: a shower together with StepMom. Maybe a little jealousy/competition for Dad's time/affection. She may feel threatened.

My Dd would have melted into a puddle and gone down the drain at this age if her Daddy saw her with no clothes on. She is modest. Now on the other hand my 5 yr old streaks through the house still with no shame. Her and my Dh still showered occasionally last yr but no more. It just stopped natuarlly. She can now bathe or shower on her own-with a door open for my peace of mind...just in case she gets soap in her eye/slips etc. We still help her bathe though or at the very least watch her to make sure she doesn't miss any parts etc.
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