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#121 of 189 Old 06-27-2008, 10:11 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Jessy1019 View Post
That place is obviously anti-abortion, but they ARE pro-adoption. I looked at the site for less than five minutes and found references to adoption under "counseling." They say they're neutral, but considering they also seem to be teaching that parenting is miserable -- a la "baby think it over," a program normally used to make teenagers think babies are awful -- I'd bet anything they're just like our local CPC: parenting is hard, say good-bye to your hopes and dreams (ie: we will say nothing positive about parenting here) BUT adoption is loving and unselfish, what a beautiful choice (ie: nothing negative about adoption).

All these places really care about is imposing their values on everyone they touch.


I have no problem at all with anyone who wants to discuss what the realities of parenting a child or children are with young moms. I wasn't a young mom and I appreciated those wise talks. Raising a child requires a willingness and awareness of the need to set your needs aside to care for someone who is amazingly and exquisitely helpless. There is a level of maturity one would wish for, ie that the mom has had an opportunity to complete the developmental tasks associated with her own phase of life, in order to assume such responsibility, but sometimes this doesn't happen.

It's an awesome and wonderful task to parent, and under the best circumstances can be stressful. I don't think anyone benefits from not knowing, to the degree you really can, what the experience might bring. Options for parenting are just that..options. Your agenda doesn't hold any water with me, sorry.
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#122 of 189 Old 06-27-2008, 10:25 PM
 
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I have no problem at all with anyone who wants to discuss what the realities of parenting a child or children are with young moms.
The only people who seem to have a problem doing this are the people at CPCs like the one linked -- they're the ones who limit their discussions to focus only on the negative aspects of parenting and say nothing about the positive ones.

I think it's very possible to give people a realistic look at parenting that includes the many rewards as well as the potential challenges.

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#123 of 189 Old 06-28-2008, 02:07 AM
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#124 of 189 Old 06-28-2008, 09:04 AM
 
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I haven't read through, but I thought I would add--
When I was waiting for a midwife appt at around 39 weeks, I heard the midwife doing the first prenatal check on a 13 yo in the room next to me (the nurses let her age slip to me while I was getting a blood check)... and it was NOT going well. The girl kept screaming "stop stop stop" while the midwife was doing the exam; I couldn't help hearing that the girl already had some STD complications and a bleeding, untreated yeast infection. Anyway, I was sitting in my room, thinking about how blessed I was to have a husband, great support, a good knowledge about how to stay healthy, etc-- but I heard the midwife say, as she was leaving the room, "Your next visit you'll have an ultrasound and you'll get to see your baby! Congratulations!" and she said it with such sincerity... she was celebrating the existence of the baby, not the circumstances. So yes; I would probably just say congratulations.

13 years old??? Wow, that is sad.
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#125 of 189 Old 06-28-2008, 01:50 PM
 
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Getting back to my original post, there is not much positive to say about a teen parent who is most likely dropping out of school, financially digging herself into a hole, and probaby raising the baby without the biological father.
I am not a teen or a parent, but as someone who left high school without graduating (and am proud of that choice), does not make very much money and most likely never will (again, a choice that I feel is right for me), and plan on never marrying (and I do plan on having children, and honestly having a relationship with my future child's bio father isn't very important to me - though it would be a nice bonus to have a loving partner/father), I find this statement very offensive.

I know plenty of parents of all ages who aren't college educated; who depend financially on their parents, or are in a large degree of debt.. and I sure know a lot of single parents.

Do you truly feel that a mother's education level, the amount of money she m makes, or her marital status are most important? Or predictive of her worth as a parent or person?
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#126 of 189 Old 06-28-2008, 04:10 PM
 
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Originally Posted by rhubarbarin View Post
Do you truly feel that a mother's education level, the amount of money she m makes, or her marital status are most important? Or predictive of her worth as a parent or person?
That's how it hit me, too! There's just so much that's positive to say about everyone, regardless of those three factors.

Susan -- married unschoolin' WAHMomma to two lovely girls (born 2000 and 2005).
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#127 of 189 Old 06-28-2008, 04:12 PM
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I would say a definate congratulations, how are you feeling, etc...if she was planning on adoption, I would support her and let her know it was great that she was bringing this child into the world, and maybe ask her about her adoption process. I know a teen who went this route. She felt that this was the right thing to do, and she has no regrets.
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#128 of 189 Old 06-28-2008, 05:31 PM
 
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I would take the time to find out all the info first. What if she had hoped her pregnancy would be kept private for a while? What is she's really upset about this pregnancy and people are just congratulating her left and right and just not "getting it?"

If you find out she's going to keep the baby and raise it, then congratulate her and perhaps get her a sweet little baby gift.
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#129 of 189 Old 06-29-2008, 12:18 AM
 
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Originally Posted by rhubarbarin View Post
I am not a teen or a parent, but as someone who left high school without graduating (and am proud of that choice), does not make very much money and most likely never will (again, a choice that I feel is right for me), and plan on never marrying (and I do plan on having children, and honestly having a relationship with my future child's bio father isn't very important to me - though it would be a nice bonus to have a loving partner/father), I find this statement very offensive.

I know plenty of parents of all ages who aren't college educated; who depend financially on their parents, or are in a large degree of debt.. and I sure know a lot of single parents.

Do you truly feel that a mother's education level, the amount of money she m makes, or her marital status are most important? Or predictive of her worth as a parent or person?
No, these factors are not predictive of her worth as a parent or a person; however, they are predictive of her ability to provide for her child.

Who is going to support this baby? Welfare??
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#130 of 189 Old 06-29-2008, 06:17 AM
 
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Originally Posted by AbundantLife View Post
No, these factors are not predictive of her worth as a parent or a person; however, they are predictive of her ability to provide for her child.

Who is going to support this baby? Welfare??

I think it depends upon the choices one makes, but I think one can have a very rich life without much money if one applies oneself to cleverness and minimalism. If you keep what you have clean and don't get too much, you don't have to make a lot of money to live well.
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#131 of 189 Old 06-29-2008, 09:29 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by Jessy1019 View Post
I'd bet anything they're just like our local CPC: parenting is hard, say good-bye to your hopes and dreams (ie: we will say nothing positive about parenting here) BUT adoption is loving and unselfish, what a beautiful choice (ie: nothing negative about adoption).

All these places really care about is imposing their values on everyone they touch.
You are exactly right.

I hate Crisis Pregnancy Centers. They do women a disservice by giving young women misinformation or selected information. Their goal is to avoid abortion at all costs regardless of lying or methods used.

http://www.rhrealitycheck.org/blog/2...lated-by-a-cpc

http://www.rhrealitycheck.org/blog/2...t-against-cpcs

http://www.rhrealitycheck.org/blog/2...eive-dont-help

http://www.rhrealitycheck.org/blog/2...license-to-lie

http://www.rhrealitycheck.org/blog/2...llege-campuses

http://www.rhrealitycheck.org/blog/2...wont-be-fooled

http://www.rhrealitycheck.org/blog/2...fooled-by-cpcs

It also pisses me off that they don’t give young women information on birth control. They usually counsel on biblical terms promoting abstinence, but ignoring all the other alternatives.
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#132 of 189 Old 06-29-2008, 11:17 AM
 
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Originally Posted by ArielMomma View Post
You are exactly right.

I hate Crisis Pregnancy Centers. They do women a disservice by giving young women misinformation or selected information. Their goal is to avoid abortion at all costs regardless of lying or methods used.


It also pisses me off that they don’t give young women information on birth control. They usually counsel on biblical terms promoting abstinence, but ignoring all the other alternatives.
Yup, and frankly, all of THAT is a lot "sadder" than teen pregnancy!

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#133 of 189 Old 06-29-2008, 11:52 PM
 
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Wow, those sites are really interesting. I've volunteered at a crisis center for almost two years now and haven't heard of such things. I wonder if it has to do with particular organizations or areas?

The one in my area requires the women to take child-care classes, apply for a job, take "life betterment" classes (for women who don't know how to clean, budget, eat healthy, etc) and get have a stable living area and insurance before leaving.

Mama to expecting Babe 2
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#134 of 189 Old 06-30-2008, 01:59 AM
 
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Wow, those sites are really interesting. I've volunteered at a crisis center for almost two years now and haven't heard of such things. I wonder if it has to do with particular organizations or areas?

The one in my area requires the women to take child-care classes, apply for a job, take "life betterment" classes (for women who don't know how to clean, budget, eat healthy, etc) and get have a stable living area and insurance before leaving.

I'm confused. "Requires" before leaving? What does that mean?
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#135 of 189 Old 06-30-2008, 07:39 AM
 
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Wow, those sites are really interesting. I've volunteered at a crisis center for almost two years now and haven't heard of such things. I wonder if it has to do with particular organizations or areas?

The one in my area requires the women to take child-care classes, apply for a job, take "life betterment" classes (for women who don't know how to clean, budget, eat healthy, etc) and get have a stable living area and insurance before leaving.
I also used to volunteer at a crisis pregnancy center. They are not in the "business" of offering birth control because they are run by the local Catholic Church. (I personally disagreed with their stance on this issue) However, they did provide all of the above - child care classes, support groups for young mothers, assistance with acquiring insurance, housing, etc.
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#136 of 189 Old 06-30-2008, 08:43 AM
 
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I think every pregnancy unless their are serious social issues are involved needs to be congratulated and wished well. yes, the incidence of teen pregnancy has perceptibly increased - more so in tropical countries where girls menstruate earlier, sometimes around the age of nine years. Normally a woman's body to bear the demands of pregnancy is fully developed by the age of 18 years; it is recommended if one conceives a few years later still . I had conceived when I had completed 20. In western countries I learn under the impact of urbanization and almost all women taking up vocation out of home, the pregnancy is planned until a convenient time and often beyond the age of thirty. Well, the issue is how you take it and deal with it if one becomes a teen mother. Besides wishing her well, depending on the nature of relationship with her and the family, some words of caution may also be said provided there is a need for it.

Pregnancy among teenagers in my country is also becoming a matter of concern because, besides health issues, it causes, distraction in studies and quite often the girls were not married. Moreover, adventuring in sex at the tender age of 10 or a few years more can have serious mental and physiological consequences. Of course, thanks to awareness easily availability of family planning advice and techniques, the erstwhile phenomonon of simultaneous pregnancy in three generations - grandma at the age of mid-fortyor late-forty, mom at the age of around 30 and girl at the age of around 14-15, has truly becoming rare. Young girls need not mind their siblings (and even uncles and aunts) along with their own children whenever they visit their parents' place.
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#137 of 189 Old 06-30-2008, 08:57 AM
 
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I
This is a point that seems to be made over and over. Just because some of us wouldn't say "congratulations!" to a pregnant teen DOES NOT mean we are shaming them or being negative or giving them hell or any of the other things mentioned so far.
.
Nor did I say that. Maybe YOU don't shame young moms, but it's out there.

The reality is that many young moms are being shamed, maybe more than we'd like to admit. For example, after I had a miscarriage people told me the most horrible things.

-Called me a whore, told me I should have kept my legs close and it wouldn't have happened

-Told me I had nothing I mean NOTHING to offer a baby, not emotionally, financially, or in other way. Sound familiar???

-Told me my baby was a mistake that was going to ruin my life

...All because I didn't meet their age or education criteria of what they thought would make a good parent. Nobody mentioned TO ME that being loving or caring would make you a good parent. People seem to be extremely caught up in money, age, etc as if those things guarantee good parenting.


And that's with me being 20/21. I can't imagine how hurtful and disgusting people are being to moms even younger than that.

So I guess I used the word "shaming" b/c that's been my reality.

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#138 of 189 Old 06-30-2008, 09:13 AM - Thread Starter
 
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...All because I didn't meet their age or education criteria of what they thought would make a good parent.
I hear ya! I experienced a lot of what you mentioned and I was in my early 20s with a bachelors degree already! I couldn't imagine the reaction I might have received if I had gotten pregnant as a teen still in high school.
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#139 of 189 Old 06-30-2008, 10:33 AM
 
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Jessy1019, if it was you who posted in relation to Adoption: Legalized Lies
could you please tell me more about the program?
As a woman who knows many mothers who gave up babies for adoption and adult adoptees who have been hurt by adoption (there are so very many here) - and indeed the often forgottne groupl father of hilden givne up for adoption - I would love to know more about it.
I personally believe in reproductive freedom also. The fact that I believe I would not abort does not endow me with the arrogance to assume I have the right to make the same decision for others.
We also have such programs / centres here and they have been exposed as rogue CPCs - mainly by the lies they tell to vulnerable women and the restrictive "options" they put forward. Now, unless an organisation is prepared to discuss all options with women - including their legal right to referral abroad for abortion, then they cannot be included in the government list of Crisis Preganacy agencies.
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#140 of 189 Old 06-30-2008, 12:44 PM
 
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I wanted to throw in here that I knew/know many many teen parents and EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM went on to graduate from high school, find jobs, etc. Yeah, they may not be rich but they are supporting themselves and happy with their lives. Who is anyone to say they are failures by being teen parents??

BTW-I opted to drop out, I'm the only teen I know who did, but having my son had nothing to do with it. I HATED school and wanted to move on. My counseler at school even agreed with me. I quit school and went and took the GED test on my own (no classes before hand). I passed every single test with a perfect score, except math, lol. But I even passed the math test. When I finished I couldnt help think wow, why did I just waste 3 years in high school? I could've passed that test so easily...

In any case, I wouldnt say any of the teens I've met have been failures. None of us had a horribly difficult time of it either-yes, there were the logistics of school and childcare and income to buy the baby things, but adults have these issues as well. They had the typical work of learning to take care of a baby but, again, they didnt have a horribly hard time of it, their lives were not over, and I think honestly, a lot of them followed their instincts a lot more than some older parents do.

The one thing that has stood out to me is this: the teen parents that did the best had the most support from family, friends, etc. even if it werent financial or even physical support. Never underestimate the power of emotional support.

Cari-mama to Eriq, Lile, Paikea, Kaidyn, and Mieke is here!! 2/9/10
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#141 of 189 Old 06-30-2008, 12:48 PM
 
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Oh and btw, after I dropped out I went straight to college. I changed my program twice and finished my MA program and plan on continuing and eventually becoming a midwife, but thats on hold while I raise my kids

Cari-mama to Eriq, Lile, Paikea, Kaidyn, and Mieke is here!! 2/9/10
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#142 of 189 Old 06-30-2008, 02:18 PM
 
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I haven't read all the responses but I was a young mama. I 'got' pregnant at 19, unplanned and when I told my employer at the time she said, smiling and happily " congrats!" I was confused and annoyed. I was still very upset and all I could think was, "what's there to be so happy about?"

I know she was just trying to be supportive but . . . at the moment I was feeling pretty crappy about the pregnancy and having a hard time accepting the whole thing . ..

a kinder "how are you doing/feeling" would have been appreciated.
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#143 of 189 Old 06-30-2008, 04:55 PM
 
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I hear ya! I experienced a lot of what you mentioned and I was in my early 20s with a bachelors degree already! I couldn't imagine the reaction I might have received if I had gotten pregnant as a teen still in high school.
ditto.

I was 26 when I conceived my first child, was educated, smart but had no job at the time so I used Medicaid and had to have assistance throughout the pregnancy AND I did work the whole time but I worked for a family member who paid me cash so I could "live" basically because no one else would hire me and pay me decent pay. I was also very young looking and small and most people who "saw" me judged me based on how I looked, because they didn't know my age. I would have had a good job but due to bad circumstances I had just lost a good job about a year before I got pregnant and wasn't married. I just "happened" to still be jobless when I conceived. It wasn't like I did it on purpose. I got a good job once I had the baby and could secure something full-time with benefits, paying what I needed. But while I was pregnant no one was going to hire me, at least not for a decent job.

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17 yr old

11 yr old 

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#144 of 189 Old 06-30-2008, 07:27 PM
 
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I guess I'm in the minority here, but no, I wouldn't say congratulations, mostly because I believe that would send the wrong message to my own daughter.

But I think an upbeat inquiry into how she's doing/feeling would be a "nice" response without getting into whether it's really congratulations-worthy or not.
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#145 of 189 Old 06-30-2008, 08:21 PM
 
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I have two daughters, and I hope they'll wait 'til marriage before having sex and becoming mothers. However, I feel this is a decision they have to commit to (or not) within themselves -- it's not something I'm going to persuade them into by expressing disapproval or acting like it's the end of the world whenever a young girl gets pregnant.

The fact is, it's not the end of the world. It does usually mean a shift in plans, and often means putting some dreams on hold if the girl wants to do most of the direct care for her child herself while her child is small. Again, this shift may actually be a good thing in disguise, and a growth-experience.

So, while I personally think it's a little easier and less-complicated to wait 'til you're able to provide a 2-parent home, where possibly there can always be one parent available to care for the child, it's certainly not the end of the world if it happens differently. I'll continue to tell my children that babies are always blessings -- that I hope they'll wait 'til marriage, but nevertheless I'll always rejoice at a new life coming into the world.

Susan -- married unschoolin' WAHMomma to two lovely girls (born 2000 and 2005).
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#146 of 189 Old 06-30-2008, 08:28 PM
 
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Putting in my vote..I was 15 when I got pregnant with dd, 16 when I had her. I didn't get a single congrats, or anything positive actually. Ten years later, announcing my current pregnancy I didn't get a single congrats from ANYONE in my family. And it sucks, no matter what your age. You don't have to say "congrats" as people have said, she may be feeling confused/terrified, not know what she's going to do yet, but some kind of positive feedback would be great.

Ah well, since I never had any support, I can thank me, and only me for the awesome mother I've been
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#147 of 189 Old 07-01-2008, 01:13 AM
 
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I'm confused. "Requires" before leaving? What does that mean?
It is a program that mothers and their preborn/already born children can voluntarily apply for. The program includes temporary housing, food and clothing, classes, childcare, assistance with resume-building and interview skills, assistance with GED classes and education, legal assistance, etc etc etc.

The program requires signing an agreement to complete a GED or if highschool is completed, to enroll in college classes, to actively apply for jobs, to take childcare classes, to apply/find medical insurance, to apply/find permanent housing, etc.

It's a very in-depth program and has been an eye opener for me. I have helped women who didn't know how to clean a house, or properly feed/dress an infant. And of course there's also the tricky parts of life that I've learned about, such as applying for government aid/insurance/financial aid, finalizing divorce papers, custody battles, restraints, job discrimination due to being pregnant or having full custody of child(ren), etc.

Mama to expecting Babe 2
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#148 of 189 Old 07-01-2008, 07:21 AM
 
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I am an urban teacher where plenty, well actually most, of the mothers became so as teens. Would I ever tell a teen she's going to be a failure, this will be only negative, blah blah blah? No, not at all. You can still be a terrific mom with the right support.

But do I think it's fair to downplay or sugarcoat the hardships that come with it? I think that's just as snarky and cruel as the above. Here's what I have found in my city and school.

1.Yes, you will likely be reliant on public aid and work minimum wage jobs if you don't get a college education.
2.Yes, you will likely be raising your children on your own, and will be lucky to receive adequate, reliable child support.
3.Yes, it will eat you on the inside when you would love to send your kids to that summer program, that field trip, that horse riding class, and cannot afford to do it.
4.Yes, parenting is hard, and your freedom will be limited at such a young age. You will often have to choose what you would love to do and your children's best interests.
5.Yes, hot potato custody among your relatives is not good for the child if you choose to have and keep your child but not really raise it.


That's not to say I think girls should choose adoption no matter what, or always have an abortion no matter what. Some girls can rise above everything in my list. But I think to just say, "It's such a blessing, congratulations, oh this is just so wonderful!" etc is misleading and therefore cruel.

And as for the crisis pregnancy support centers, in my city at least they are predominantly parenting classes and resource center. To make the snap judgment that they are always pushing adoption (if so, they have a 100% failure rate) is erroneous.
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#149 of 189 Old 07-01-2008, 07:42 AM
 
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Originally Posted by kmeyrick View Post
And as for the crisis pregnancy support centers, in my city at least they are predominantly parenting classes and resource center. To make the snap judgment that they are always pushing adoption (if so, they have a 100% failure rate) is erroneous.
And it's sad that more young people don't choose adoption. I think it's likely going to be abortion they choose if they don't want the baby a lot of times and that's sad. I know someone in their 40's who had an abortion as a teen and has gone through therapy for it.

I'm wondering what parents would say to a child that came home and instead say they aborted their grandchild. That would be even harder for me to grasp because of the emotional problems my child would likely have later down the road from such a choice. I would much rather my daughter say she is having her baby and I would help her in any way that I could. I feel that adoption could cause emotional problems for a mother as well if she doesn't go about it the right way, so having the baby is the best solution for the mother IMO. Because in either way the girl may decide to have kids of her own as an adult down the road and then will have memories of what could have been. How sad for her.

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#150 of 189 Old 07-01-2008, 11:33 AM - Thread Starter
 
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And it's sad that more young people don't choose adoption. I think it's likely going to be abortion they choose if they don't want the baby a lot of times and that's sad. I know someone in their 40's who had an abortion as a teen and has gone through therapy for it.
I think it really depends. Did the person CHOOSE abortion or did they do it because they felt pressured into it by their parents and/or society. I know a few people who have gone through abortions. The ones who actually made the choice without any pressure tend not to have regrets. The people who really seemed devastated are those who didn't have an actual say in the matter. It was more, "You're too young and this is how it is going to be!"

I think the choice should be 100% up to the child. If my daughter were to get pregnant, we'd talk it over, but the choice would be hers. I wouldn't put any pressure on her in any direction. I know giving a baby up for adoption can be emotionally traumatic also. My sister was pressured into giving her baby away as a teen. She is still devastated all these years later.

Abortion, adoption, keeping the baby, etc... ALL have risks of severe emotional problems later in life. I strongly feel it should be the individuals right to make an informed/unpressured choice on which path they want to take.
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