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Old 12-19-2007, 10:28 PM - Thread Starter
 
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So last night dh told me that the last month has not been going well for him (news to me!) and that he doesn't like Caleb. He asked me if I had told our MW earlier yersterday at my 6 wk checkup how badly things were going here. also news to me...I thought they were going pretty wwell. I don't have PPD and can manage to get both boys out of the house in a decent amount of time, can get dinner on the table two nights out of three and can keep the house under control, more or less . Thinking that he wasn't serious I said something like "well, you better get over it". He later said (muttered), "how do I even know he's mine?" (WTF??!?!?!?!?!!!?!?!??!?! He has zero reason to believe otherwise and I have *never* cheated on him and he knows this. ) And also, "I think Isaac and I were both happier before he was here" He complains that Caleb cries too much and that he can't sleep. The baby only cries at night and when he does, dh either has a pillow over his (own) head or goes into our spare bedroom to sleep. That's fine with me since he has to work in the morning and I don't. He *does* need his sleep, but really. Babies cry. They do. It's a fact of life! Caleb cries more than Isaac did, but WTF? It's really *not* a lot of crying/fussing compared to some babies. I mentioned this to dh and he said that's totally irrelevant and doesn't make him feel any better. A while ago he said "Caleb might be cuter than Isaac" Is he distancing himself from the baby...and that's why he's saying/doing all this stuff.

I am at a total loss here. I know he's missing the physical intimacy of our relationship befoer the baby was born and I am too, but I got the green light from my MW yesterday to DTD. BefoRe I even went to my appt, dh said, "well, I probably won't even be in the mood tonight anyway" Ok, whatever. I also know he feels like Isaac isn't getting as much attention as before (duh), but I make a special efort to praise Isaac for positive things he does and also to spend 1-on-1 time with him, so it's not like he's suffering. far from it.

This morning dh said that I "shut him down" by saying he was going to have to get over it. And also that "you were probably feeling defensive when I said that so maybe I shouldn't talk to you about it" Well...ok, but I really don't think he'll be going back to his shrink for $140/hr. Puh-leeze.

What do you all think? Is he jealous? Is he still upset that he wasn't there for the birth? I just feel sad that he feels this way. At this point, I feel like I am the only one who loves this baby. : (I had to tell both MIL and Mother while pg that they needed to stop telling me how excited they were to buuy pink/for me to have a girl/etc. b/c what if I had a boy? Well, my mom has bought a few outfits for Caleb and came up for a day to help out around the house after the birth, but other than that neither has done anything special or made time to spend with the baby)

Thanks for reading this...it's also part vent, so thanks for bearing with me. My thoughts about this are really scattered ATM. ADVICE/INSIGHT PLEASE!! I know y'all have something to say about this!
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Old 12-19-2007, 10:36 PM
 
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Sounds like he's suffering from PPD. I believe men can get it too. And if he wasn't there for the birth, he's probably missing some connection with the baby, thus the "how do I even know he's mine." I doubt he actually thinks you cheated on him, it's probably more like, I didn't see him come out, so how do I know the nurses didn't mix him up. KWIM. Can you guys possibly go to a family counselor? They might be more skilled at treating this sort of thing.

Alisha, Army wife to Nathan , Homeschooling mama to Scheeli (May 2003) , Bronwynn (Nov. 2004) :, Piper (Nov. 2007) , and Wesley (January 2010)
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Old 12-19-2007, 10:39 PM
 
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Whoa, sounds like the more rare "Daddy PPD"......Any chance you could get him to see someone before he bottoms out??? Supposedly, when a dad developes PPD, it seems to hit them hard as hell (or so I've read).....
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Old 12-19-2007, 11:12 PM
 
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Oh, wow. I am sorry to hear this. We have a little bit of that going on here -- not so much the complaining and purposeful distancing, but I think that my husband is freaking out about being the father of two children, being part of a family of four, etc. He's suddenly gotten all fired up about demanding his "alone time" (which I get when exactly?) and has not been nearly as helpful as he was with Dylan -- I don't feel like we are functioning as a team.

But jeez! How are you supposed to hear him saw things like he doesn't like Caleb without losing it? I'd see if you can find a calm moment and tell him that you are really worried about him and your family life with his current feelings, and would he like to go back to therapy or maybe the two of you go to therapy...

This might just be his way of expressing frustration at the adjustment period... I have to keep assuring my husband that things WILL get better, that we will all get into the swing of things... he has also made comments along the line of "What have we gotten ourselves into?" that sound like regret, but actually come from a place of mid-life freak out.

So sorry to hear this. Hope he can pull himself together.

And this is totally OT but I have been trying to remember to tell you that we've implemented the behavior chart like you suggested with Dylan and the results have really been amazing! There is some stuff that he may never do ("being polite to Mommy and Daddy" has yet to get a sticker), but I'm really impressed at how quickly he got the idea that doing "good things" equals stickers and stickers equal a treat. It turns out that some things (like picking up toys) are not so painful to him that he cannot do them.

Although it's a little sad when he is whining for candy and so desperate that he weeps to me, "Mommy, I want to do some more good things." It just sounds so pathetic. ANd makes me think of Martha Stewart.
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Old 12-19-2007, 11:40 PM
 
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Wow Mama, no advice, but sending lots of hugs and well wishes you way.

Jodie, married to my best friend and Mama to three amazing kiddos, Jack (6), Matthew (4) and Sam (21 months) and cautiously waiting for a new little one due early spring (shhh, it's a secret!)
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Old 12-20-2007, 12:26 AM
 
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i agree with the PP's that said he has PPD.

nurture him, and don't be upset with him for not being the strong one.

I agree he might be traumatized by missing the birth; feeling like he let you down; intimidated by your strength and the idea that you didn't "need" him. My DH missed our 5th birth & was upset for a while- it took him a long time to process it. He really felt like he wasn't part of the baby.

Hopefully it's not $140 an hour for help, because he might need it. good luck and hugs to you,....
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Old 12-20-2007, 01:10 AM
 
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OMG this just breaks my heart. I'm crying!!

I have major baggage from an ex husband who was worthless (not saying your DH is worthless!) and never bonded with our second son. Long story..

I don't believe this hubby of yours is like the jerk my ex became, but something is preventing him from bonding. Even my hubby who didn't want Lachlan and was a jerk while I was preggo has pulled through 98%.

I hope you can get some help and peace soon!

Almost a b-ball team: : Taylor -14, Alex -11, Jack -8, Lachlan born at home 11/15/07
"Well behaved women rarely make history"
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Old 12-20-2007, 01:17 AM
 
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yikes!
i think i'm way less forgiving than the other mamas here. my reaction would be the same as yours--get over yourself!!! becoming a parent is stressful for everyone, but men have no chemical reason to have ppd like women do--it sounds more like male selfishness to me. maybe i'm a b*tch, but i would much more likely give him a swift kick in the a$$ than a heaping load of sympathy.
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Old 12-20-2007, 02:29 AM
 
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Googy, I have to disagree with you there, it's not a women's disease, there really isn't any kind of mental illness in existance that DOESN'T effect both genders, even if one's the minority of the whole pie chart.

http://www.webmd.com/depression/depression-men
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/...n1870726.shtml

The second link deals with PPD in men.
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Old 12-20-2007, 02:37 AM
 
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He needs to see someone ASAP. Getting to a severity where he's actually verbalizing feelings like that means that it's pretty serious (think about how bad you'd have to be doing before you'd say what he said out loud). I doubt he can "get over it" on his own. I'd make an appt for him if he won't call. Your midwife may have good suggestions for who he should see.
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Old 12-20-2007, 04:18 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Googy View Post
yikes!
i think i'm way less forgiving than the other mamas here. my reaction would be the same as yours--get over yourself!!! becoming a parent is stressful for everyone, but men have no chemical reason to have ppd like women do--it sounds more like male selfishness to me. maybe i'm a b*tch, but i would much more likely give him a swift kick in the a$$ than a heaping load of sympathy.
That's how I felt about hubby being a selfish jerk during the pregnancy that WE PLANNED. I wanted to be supportive and I knew he was stressed, but I needed him to put on his big boy panties and grow up.

Almost a b-ball team: : Taylor -14, Alex -11, Jack -8, Lachlan born at home 11/15/07
"Well behaved women rarely make history"
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Old 12-20-2007, 07:35 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Lizzie9984 View Post
Googy, I have to disagree with you there, it's not a women's disease, there really isn't any kind of mental illness in existance that DOESN'T effect both genders, even if one's the minority of the whole pie chart.

http://www.webmd.com/depression/depression-men
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/...n1870726.shtml

The second link deals with PPD in men.
Oh gosh, sorry, I didn't mean to say that ppd in men isn't possible--I'm just trying to say that statistically it seems more likely that there is something else going on.
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Old 12-20-2007, 12:09 PM
 
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nak

Laura. I'm so sorry you're dealing with this.

Catholic Homeschooling mama to DS (6), DD (4), twin DDs (2), DD (7 months), and someone new 7/31/10!
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Old 12-20-2007, 01:13 PM
 
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So like what exactly did he want you to tell the Midwife? "Hey this isn't working out for me, we're going to have to ask you to take him back." Wow, that sounds like some serious issues to me. As far as Issac goes, what do millions of older siblings do when they become the oldest and not the only child, they get over it and I think it makes them better people in the long run. Your a better Woman than I because I would be moving to my Mom's house right after he told me he doesn't like my Baby.

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Old 12-20-2007, 02:26 PM
 
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Wow. What a bad situation to be in. Sorry your in it.

I hope you can get him some help. I'm sure its hard to see that he's not bonding with your baby.
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Old 12-20-2007, 02:30 PM
 
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nak

i don't have anything to add...but i just want to give you a big hug.
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Old 12-20-2007, 02:43 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Oh, thank you all so much for your replies. *sigh* It feels good to know I have support here, if not at home.

The shrink dh was seeing before was really $140/hr, Lisa. And twice a week! OY! His parents generously paid for it since we don't have that kind of money. I mean we gotta :! He had sufferered from depression in the past and when I brought this up ( and we discussed before Caleb was born as well) he swears that he is not depressed. I'm pretty sure this is true because I think he would get back on meds the second that feeling creeps back. He self-medicates with pot but that's another story altogether.

When I told him to get over it, I didn;t think he was serious, but now that I know he is, I'm not sure I would have said anything different

Yeah, I have no idea what he wanted me to say to evelyn (MW) because like I said, I thought things were going pretty well. Last night I tried to discuss it with him again, and he said I was not the person to talk about it with because I am too intimately involved in the situation. I told him that he shouldn't shut me out and that it was still important to me to know how he's feeling : So later he came and told me some of how he's feeling. He did last night say the the baby was cute and he conceded that he loved him but he does't like him and said "he just doesn't do anything for me"

G-d, Gina, I hope it doesn't turn out like your first marriage. He generally is a really good guy, very supportive etc. but sometimes he can just be a real horse's ass. I guess all men can, though...he's a clinical social worker, so usually he is very aware of these issues. For pete's sake, he's usually the therapist!

Can't type any more right now...gotta go run errands but I'll be back later I you guys!
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Old 12-20-2007, 03:37 PM
 
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yet once again we lead parallel lives!! unfortunately this time... yikes girl, I am really sorry youa re dealing with this... my DH was really bad like that too from weeks 2-umm like now... esp when he started colicking.....

recently he has been a lot better (we have had a few brutally honest chats about this...)

dh was raised as an oops and an "unwanted" baby by a physically and emotionally absentee dad... i ripped into him to not do same to dean..

your dh with history of depression prob needs much gentler care... does he respond to cranial work for his depression (triad of depression.. occ, sphenoid and another i forget... oops) or something like st john's??

i feel really bad for you , very tough stuff... call me if you need to chat.. i'm close, remember ..... unless that freaks you out.... hugs

Laura
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Old 12-20-2007, 07:10 PM
 
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nak

Not much more to add, but I do think that he might feeling depressed/anxious in a different way than usual, so maybe that's why he hasn't gotten back on his meds,

Many hugs coming yourway & hopefully he will come round. Isaac will be fine as PP has said - 1st kids all over the world have become older brothers/sisters & been better people for the experience.
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Old 12-20-2007, 08:13 PM
 
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OMG he's a social worker! Oy, mama Never marry one of those (I should know, I was in school to BE one!)

SWs have some major baggage and really, we don't ask for help because we know it all. At any rate, he's not like my ex it sounds like, but he does need to get it together!

Almost a b-ball team: : Taylor -14, Alex -11, Jack -8, Lachlan born at home 11/15/07
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Old 12-20-2007, 10:25 PM
 
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nak

I agree with a lot of what's been said, and I'm sorry you're dealing with this.

I just want to say, we've been dealing with a little of this - not as far as what you're going through. DP loves the babe and is glad we had him, but in addition to some work-related mid-life crisis stuff, he's having a little trouble bonding. It's getting better, though, as Django is beginning to smile a bit, and is finding ways of expressing himself that aren't crying, and as he spends more awake time not nursing. For us I think it's just a matter of time before I'll be fighting for DP to give him back to me.

It certainly sounds like your situation is more serious, but maybe the babe getting a bit older will help some.
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Old 12-21-2007, 05:28 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by Curlita View Post
Oh, wow. I am sorry to hear this. We have a little bit of that going on here -- not so much the complaining and purposeful distancing, but I think that my husband is freaking out about being the father of two children, being part of a family of four, etc. He's suddenly gotten all fired up about demanding his "alone time" (which I get when exactly?) and has not been nearly as helpful as he was with Dylan -- I don't feel like we are functioning as a team.
He's definitely been asking (or just taking) more alone time. And yeah, it's like "when can I get some too?" Why does he think I take two showers a day?! Because that's the only time I have to myself and I can;t hear anyone cry or complain when I'm in there. At night when I get ready to shower he tells me to "hurry back" Um, yeah, right!
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And this is totally OT but I have been trying to remember to tell you that we've implemented the behavior chart like you suggested with Dylan and the results have really been amazing! There is some stuff that he may never do ("being polite to Mommy and Daddy" has yet to get a sticker), but I'm really impressed at how quickly he got the idea that doing "good things" equals stickers and stickers equal a treat. It turns out that some things (like picking up toys) are not so painful to him that he cannot do them.

Although it's a little sad when he is whining for candy and so desperate that he weeps to me, "Mommy, I want to do some more good things." It just sounds so pathetic. ANd makes me think of Martha Stewart.
sweet! I'm so glad that works for you. In fact, it sounds like Dylan is just old enough for it to really be effective. I *wish* Isaac was begging me to do some more good things.
Yesterday he was dry at school all day and went 3x on the potty so he got to make some banana-nut-choc. chip muffins with me while caleb was asleep. He is so *not* deprived. And like another mama pointed out, first children (and their parents) have been dealing with the feelings a second child brings up for forever.

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yet once again we lead parallel lives!! unfortunately this time... yikes girl, I am really sorry youa re dealing with this...
dh was raised as an oops and an "unwanted" baby by a physically and emotionally absentee dad... i ripped into him to not do same to dean..

your dh with history of depression prob needs much gentler care... does he respond to cranial work for his depression (triad of depression.. occ, sphenoid and another i forget... oops) or something like st john's??
Laura
Well, my dh was not "unwanted" but the reason he was in therapy in addition to the depression was b/c his dad is/was a workaholic and rarely at home. Only after three years of therapy was dh able to come to terms with his relationship with his father. In fact, he was terrified of parenting a boy because he felt like he would not be able to relate to him. He is extremely well bonded with Isaac now...and I am probably going to have ALL BOYS! (Mother Nature's way of reminding dh that he has to get past his own history and be present (emotionally) for his own children?!)

I've told him in no uncertain terms that emotionally abandoning Caleb is NOT an option for any reason...missing his birth, him being a boy, being a difficult infant (from his perspective). I will not let it happen.

I'm really not sure how he'd respond to tx with cranial work. Generally he is my least compliant patient. When he gets depressed especially, but in general too, I try to get him to take a multi-vit, B complex, fish oil etc but he never will, not even if I buy it for him...

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It certainly sounds like your situation is more serious, but maybe the babe getting a bit older will help some.
I think you're right. I can tell he's been making more of an effort the last few days. I also try to hand the baby off to him when I know he'll be happy for a while since I think that might help his feeling of this kid does nothing for me.
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Old 12-21-2007, 05:33 PM - Thread Starter
 
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In general things are improving, but I can tell at this point that it's still something I'll have to be vigilant about on some level for a while. I'm not sure if giving him "alone time" will help things or not. I'm thinking yes, so I'm trying not to feel too overwhelmed/abandoned. Dh works late Wed nights, so I'm alone ALL day/night with both kids, Thurs he went over to a colleagues house after work for a holiday party and then came home and left again to see a friend who is only in town once a year. And the Sat/Sun before that I was alone with both boys ALL day/night as he was helping a friend with an addition to his house. I felt like a single mama this past week. Here's a shout out to all the single mamas, 'cause I have *no* idea how you do it.
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Old 12-21-2007, 08:20 PM
 
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I am so sorry you are going through this! I have no advice but wanted to offer some hugs. I think alot of us go through this to some degree... I hope you are doing OK today.

Kerri, mom to Doran  angel2.gif  (born still 7/6/05 at 33 weeks), Mairaed (11/16/07),  angel1.gif 11/15/08 at 10 weeks,  Kieran (11/2/09).   angel1.gif 1/11/11 at 15 weeks
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Old 12-21-2007, 09:08 PM
 
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I love him, but he "doesn't do anything for me" ??? Sounds like he's talking about an inanimate object. I just wanted to give you lots of (((HUGS))) - there's definitely something going on and I'm sorry he doesn't feel totally okay with talking with you about it. Maybe he doesn't want to hurt your feelings? Maybe he doesn't want to get bashed by you? Maybe he doesn't like how he feels and doesn't think he deserves any kind of "non-negative" response from you and that's why he doesn't think he'll get one and that's why he doesn't even want to discuss it because it may make him feel like he must be a bad person? Like you and the others have said - missing the birth may be a big part of it.

I really hope things work out very soon, or least start to get better. I don't know how I would be able to handle what you are going through. I once had DH say things to the effect of not wanting one of our kids while I was pg.....too long a story to share, but once she was born, none of those feelings stuck around...he loved her just as much as any of our other kids, but I remember how I felt. I remember feeling like you....like I was the ONLY one that loved that baby I was carrying. She was our 3rd girl (sort of like how Caleb is your 2nd son and the "moms" aren't really treating him like he's anything special). I remember thinking "Just wait...you all just wait until she's born. She's going to be the most beautiful, most adorable one that everyone won't be able to help but to love her." Funny thing is...that's what happened....and it's not only within the family. Whenever strangers or new people we meet see all our girls...this one that "no one" seemed to want once we found out she was "another girl" is always the one that people are most drawn to...she's always the one that people find most beautiful. DH doesn't even remember saying anything to the effect of not wanting her.

ANYWAY - like I said.....LOTS of and I really hope things get better soon.

Stacie (34)
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Old 12-22-2007, 04:27 PM
 
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Sounds like he's suffering from PPD. I believe men can get it too. And if he wasn't there for the birth, he's probably missing some connection with the baby, thus the "how do I even know he's mine." I doubt he actually thinks you cheated on him, it's probably more like, I didn't see him come out, so how do I know the nurses didn't mix him up. KWIM. Can you guys possibly go to a family counselor? They might be more skilled at treating this sort of thing.
That is what I was thinking. After they took DD1 away to the NICU I had a hard time believing later that she was mine. I kept wondering, How do I know they didn't switch babies? There must be something primal about being there to see the baby born and then holding onto the baby.

I hope he gets better soon.
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Old 12-22-2007, 11:43 PM
 
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Originally Posted by melissakc View Post
That is what I was thinking. After they took DD1 away to the NICU I had a hard time believing later that she was mine. I kept wondering, How do I know they didn't switch babies? There must be something primal about being there to see the baby born and then holding onto the baby.

I hope he gets better soon.
That's why I'm so, so glad dh got to be at Piper's birth.

Alisha, Army wife to Nathan , Homeschooling mama to Scheeli (May 2003) , Bronwynn (Nov. 2004) :, Piper (Nov. 2007) , and Wesley (January 2010)
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