Advice for a father raising a daughter? - Mothering Forums
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
#1 of 20 Old 04-29-2002, 01:31 PM - Thread Starter
 
papabliss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 177
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Here are a couple of questions I have for the women out there...

My daughter is three years old, and I have been given much often-conflicting unsolicited advice from my male friends about how to raise her, what to say and not say to her, how to treat her especially since she has a brother (5mos old), and where in her life and personality my words and actions will have the greatest effect on her both positively and negatively.

So my questions are:

1. Where is a father’s greatest influence in his daughter’s life?

2. As dd grows up, what should a father focus his attention on, and not on? For example, one friend insists that his daughters gained their self-confidence through his encouragement and consistent message to them that they are both smart and beautiful.

3. Finally, the open-ended question…I would like your philosophy, thoughts, warnings, and suggestions about this. I grew up with two sisters and realized that my father, while he tried his best to please them, often he was placed in a no-win situation and received their wrath whenever something went wrong.

Thanks
papabliss is offline  
#2 of 20 Old 04-29-2002, 05:07 PM
 
dfoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 813
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Where is a father's greatest influence? I would say the things a father does contributes most greatly to her sense of self-efficacy. It is not one thing that a father does, rather all things put together that makes that impact on his child.

My father was an excellent father.

Some things he did that I hope my dh will do with our dd:

1. He talked with me like I was an intelligent human being. We debated issues. He challenged me to back up my opinions with facts.

2. He didn't try to make me into a son. I was athletic but it wasn't because he pushed me into it.

3. He appreciated & encouraged my "girlness". He joined me for tea parties and shopped with me for clothes.

4. He encouraged my talents. Whether it was my musical endeavors, my dancing or my softball playing, my father was my cheerleader.

5. He didn't expect me to be like my sister. Or like anyone else, either.

6. He was genuinely interested in what I had to say.

7. He wasn't afraid to show his affection physically (hugs, pats on the back, arm around my shoulder, etc) or verbally (saying "I love you" or "You did a great job").

8. I was his "grease monkey" when he worked on the cars. I also helped him with the yard and home repairs. This really helped me later in life know that I could handle a lot of things on my own. I didn't need to rely on someone else to do those kinds of things for me.

One of my cherished memories of my dad was something that was really no big deal but it certainly made an impact:

I was about 14 and going through a rough time with peers. Jr. high age girls are mean and relentless to each other and it was my week to be excluded socially by my crowd of friends. I was spending a Saturday night at home with my parents instead of going skating or to the movies with my friends. As we were watching some old movie (something I did with my dad a lot) he put his arm around me and hugged me to him, then kissed me on the forehead. He asked me if I was to old for him to do that. I said I'd never be to old for my dad to hug me.

I miss him lots.
dfoy is offline  
#3 of 20 Old 05-01-2002, 10:34 AM
 
WriterMama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,289
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
*
WriterMama is offline  
#4 of 20 Old 05-02-2002, 12:44 AM
 
jasnjakesmama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 1,325
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Papa,
You might enjoy this website: www.dadsanddaughters.org
jasnjakesmama is offline  
#5 of 20 Old 05-02-2002, 09:33 AM
 
pina la nina's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 898
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
papabliss - let me first say - you rock! I think this is such a thoughtful question, it shows you to be such a concerned aware dad (plus I know this from your other posts!)

dfoy said it so well - she was obviously a very lucky girl! My own dad felt, I think, the pressure (societal) to be more stern than he actually was at his heart. I have seen him so soft and sweet with my stepsister that I am jealous. He has apologized for some of what he did raising us, I think he distanced himself from my bro and I unnaturally. (My bro is 2.5 years younger - so about exactly the age difference of your kids.) I would say - don't get into the being the tough guy thing (on discipline issues.) I appreciate that my dad was consistant and very fair, but I think he felt like it was up to him to be unbending (and not ever see him fail.)

I love the little things he taught me, the greek alphabet, how to grow asparagus, encouraged me by conversing in his rusty high school french, and I remember our deep conversations about the nature of god and eternity. He was very active in civil rights and he drove those lesons home. He was so clueless about anything handy and I got those genes too!

I pretty much thought he was a god when I was little. Really, I just adored him, soaked up every moment of him I could get. Make more of those moments.

My little brother turned out to be a bigger struggle for him than I was. They rarely saw eye to eye and I think dad might have been very disappointed in that - I'm not sure if there was something he expected from a son that he didn't get. But I certainly had no competition issues - if anything, I was much more the favorite, though I can see that now - it wasn't so blatant then. I guess thats individual.
pina la nina is offline  
#6 of 20 Old 05-03-2002, 09:53 AM - Thread Starter
 
papabliss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 177
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Hi jasnjakesmama.

Thanks for the website. I like the list of 10 Tips at:
http://www.dadsanddaughters.org/tentips.htm

Thanks pina la nina for the support. I am just hoping to avoid some of the problems and behaviors (by both dad and daughter) that I see in my friends' families, and in my own family (both with my daughter and my sisters). For some reason, most of our family friends have only female children and the kids' ages range from 1 year to 16 so I get to see quite a bit of interaction.

Cheers.
papabliss is offline  
#7 of 20 Old 05-09-2002, 06:56 PM
 
Juliacat's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Left of center
Posts: 5,412
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I really love my dad and have always been very close to him.

He is really a kid at heart, and so liked doing things with me (he was a stay-at-home dad from the time I was about three, which made things easier). He watched TV with me, spent entire days reading books or listening to me read, played games with me, went for walks with me, talked to me, listened to me. He was as actively involved in my life as I can imagine a parent being.

He did let me know in many ways that he thought I was both smart and beautiful, but they were kind of subtle. He didn't politicize it or anything.

I think the best thing he did for me was empathize--he almost always understood, or at least tried to understand, how I felt about a given topic. He took my thoughts and opinions seriously. In all honesty, I preferred him over most of the kids my own age even in high school.

Now that I'm grown, we're not quite so close, although I still call him once or twice a week just to talk. Because I now have thoughts and opinions that are entirely separate from his (as opposed to taking his word as ultimate truth), we have arguments. Although I still agree with him about 90% of all topics, that last 10% is hard for him to handle. He still sometimes takes the "command" attitude where he issues orders and expects me to carry them out, which I think is ridiculous; I'm an adult. Also, I think he has problems accepting that I'm in a mature relationship with a man, although my sweetie is a wonderful, fantastic, terrific man who treats me wonderfully and is every bit as nice as my dad is.

My dad is a kid at heart, and I can't wait to have kids so I can watch him in action as a grandad (he already is one but it's different). Unfortunately, he's already in his mid-seventies so I suspect he won't be around when my kids grow up.

I hope this post wasn't too long, but even this doesn't do justice to how great my dad is and what a huge role he had in my turning out to be such a fantastic woman!

Mommy to eyesroll.gif (age 7) and mischievous.gif (age 3)

Juliacat is offline  
#8 of 20 Old 05-13-2002, 05:57 PM
 
Bekka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Virginia
Posts: 2,233
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I have to answer this thread b/c I just LOVE my dad. I'm the oldest of nine, five sisters and three bros. after me. I think I have/had the closest relationship with my dad (didn't develop a super close relationship with my mom until after I left home). My dad sounds a lot like dfoy's dad.

Here are some things that stand out:

He always support all my interests. Sometimes to the point of seeming pushy, but sometimes I just needed someone to lean on.

He always encouraged my learning: gave me a dictionary for my 6th birthday ( I was reading a lot--novels, etc.), but then would take time to do research, answer questions about the world, discuss things with me.

When I came to him with spiritual and/or doctrinal questions, he would take hours of his time researching in the scriptures to find answers and we would discuss them so deeply.

Shared his love of nature, the out of doors, the stars, the clouds/weather. I still find myself going for short walks out of my house (when dh is home) to check the weather, look at stars late at night, etc.

Taught me how to fish (his passion) and then when I said I didn't love it anymore, allowed me to bow out gracefully (although, by that point other kids loved to go fishing with him!).

Loved and respected my mother and each of his daughters, to give us a very very healthy idea of how women can and should be treated. When I was 11 I made it clear that he should not walk into my room unannounced (it hadn't ever occurred to him before!), and he has never, ever crossed any inappropriate lines again--even going too far the other way sometimes just to make sure that he was ok.

Embraced my dh as a son (when that becomes an issue) and has learned to love him as much as his own children!

Even though he supports the ideal arrangement of having mom stay home during early childhood, 1/ he always encouraged me when I wanted to be a doctor--provided opportunities for me to talk with doctors, etc., in the community. 2/when it worked best for our family for me to still work w/ dd #1, he supported that too!

So these are specific answers:

I would summarize them to include, teach your daughter how to be a good person. Teach her how men should treat her--and how she should treat everyone. Let her expand and develop her mind, especially by sharing your loves, whether it is cars, nature, computers, books, music, etc. Girls get testy and emotional at the onset of puberty, so know about it, expect it, and just continue to love her. That can be as early as 8 in some girls, and as late as 12-14 in other girls. (Yes, that much variation is just in my own family!). Most of all, love her mother and respect her. My dad was my example of how I wanted my husband to be. Guess what?!
Bekka is offline  
#9 of 20 Old 05-22-2002, 02:05 AM
 
USAmma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Arizona
Posts: 18,846
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I was raised by my father from age 9. He made some mistakes but he also did some things very well.

I think one of the greatest things he did was to talk openly about everything with me. I asked about pornography once and he let me see a soft porn magazine (I was in high school). I asked him about drugs and he told me about the one time he tried pot. I asked him about drinking and he let me taste some beer. I think that because these things were no big deal to me growing up I was never tempted to abuse them. To this day I've always practiced safe sex (before marriage), never used drugs, and never been drunk. He never forbade me to do these things once I came of age, but just said to be smart about them. I think that many parents totally outlaw these subject and so they become forbidden fruits for the childrena and a means to rebel.

1. Where is a father’s greatest influence in his daughter’s life?

I think the greatest influence is modeling what a good husband and father should be, so she will marry someone just like you when she's older. Also you can teach her how to relate to men.

2. As dd grows up, what should a father focus his attention on, and not on? For example, one friend insists that his daughters gained their self-confidence through his encouragement and consistent message to them that they are both smart and beautiful.

A father should be a friend, but also set limits when they are appropriate to set. Talk honestly about dating and other teen issues. Don't be out of touch with such things. Hug and touch a lot in positive ways, praise her. Spend one on one time with each child and take that time to talk about things and get to know her.

3. Finally, the open-ended question…I would like your philosophy, thoughts, warnings, and suggestions about this. I grew up with two sisters and realized that my father, while he tried his best to please them, often he was placed in a no-win situation and received their wrath whenever something went wrong.

Read The Wonder of Girls. It's a wonderful book that will help you understand how girls are wired and also how to deal with a lot of gender issues.

Good luck! You sound like a wonderful father!

Darshani

7yo: "Mom,I know which man is on a quarter and which on is on a nickel. They both have ponytails, but one man has a collar and the other man is naked. The naked man was our first president."
 
USAmma is offline  
#10 of 20 Old 05-22-2002, 06:59 AM
 
mom at home's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Idaho
Posts: 667
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
These posts about such wonderful fathers are so touching. My own father was not there for me much when I was a child (or a teen or an adult). He pursued his own interests and us kids were quite peripheral to that. His love also seemed pretty conditional and we all felt that we needed to please to gain his attentions and love. As a result we all became much closer to our mom. I know he regrets that as he's told me, but not enough to really change. He now has 3 granddaughters and a grandson and has very little to no interest in them. He generally treats them as if they were a nuisance.

I would say the most important thing is just to be there, include your dd in your life, listen to her, talk to her, play with her and love her unconditionally. And I know you already do that!

Alison
mom at home is offline  
#11 of 20 Old 05-22-2002, 08:25 AM
 
Alexander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Just moved to Framingham, MA
Posts: 1,547
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Be there for her.

People think I spoil my dd with the lengths I go to in order to be there for her.

But she is there for me, completely volunterily. You reap what you sow.

a

The anti-Ezzo king
Alexander is offline  
#12 of 20 Old 05-22-2002, 09:28 AM
 
Alexander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Just moved to Framingham, MA
Posts: 1,547
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The opposite side of the coin is here:

Mistakes fathers make when raising their daughters

Ta

a

The anti-Ezzo king
Alexander is offline  
#13 of 20 Old 05-24-2002, 05:15 PM
 
boobear's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: In the kitchen, garden and online.
Posts: 260
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
1. Where is a father’s greatest influence in his daughter’s life?

Knowing when to take things seriously. My dad helped me put things in perspective. He was firm when he needed to be and let us get away with the little things. He also stressed that you don't get anything for free/if it's too good to be true it isn't (this when I wanted to join the "20 CD's for 5 cents" club).

2. As dd grows up, what should a father focus his attention on, and not on? For example, one friend insists that his daughters gained their self-confidence through his encouragement and consistent message to them that they are both smart and beautiful.

Positive reinforcement is always a good thing, sometimes "we" don't realize we never stop to say something nice to someone else. Verbalize who you admire and why (give her pointers to your role models or people she may strive to become or be near).

3. Finally, the open-ended question…I would like your philosophy, thoughts, warnings, and suggestions about this. I grew up with two sisters and realized that my father, while he tried his best to please them, often he was placed in a no-win situation and received their wrath whenever something went wrong.

Don't let her be cheated out of figuring it out herself (ie, be patient!). Sometimes life's lessons are best learned firsthand.
Edit to add: and don't forget to spend time with her so she can really understand who you are

Good luck, you already sound like an AWESOME dad !!

Been quietly hanging around here for over 10 years.  

 

boobear is offline  
#14 of 20 Old 05-28-2002, 05:46 PM
 
momnloveit's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: South Utah County
Posts: 428
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Hi, papa bliss, from an old neighbor in New York!

My dad raised 5 girls before he got his boys, so he had a lot of practice with girls. Luckily, I was the youngest girl, so I got the best of him.

Where's a father's greatest influence in his daughters life?

Your job is to teach her the kind of man she wants to be with someday. So you have to act like the kind of man you want her to be with.

Where should your attention be focused?
On her! Yes, you should tell her she's beautiful and smart, but only if you mean it. She also needs to be taught the value of work and the value of play. My dad was very good at those two.

My philosophies:
Always listen to her. Let her tell you her ideas and opinions and validate them, even if they seem immature or juvenile. I remember my dad would take me to the bus stop in Jr. High. We'd sit in the car and talk (while my friends sat on the sidewalk and froze). He'd even bring up sticky subjects like sex and boyfriends, but he'd always listen to me. If he wanted to preach to me, he'd use examples from Other people's destructive choices and we'd talk about people we knew who we worried about. He never talked to me about MY behavior. He has never told me that my ideas were wrong. I'm sure he hasn't agreed with everything I've done or said, but I always trusted him. We are still great friends and I feel like I can always turn to him when it seems like there are too many conflicting voices out there.
On the other hand, I know a man here who can't have a peaceful conversation with his daughter. He is very strong-opinioned and has to have the last word. She is also very independent and WANTS to have the last word. Every time she comes to visit, it ends up in a family feud. I think he would find some really neat things out about her if he would just let down his pride. She'd also be more willing to listen to his advice if he would stop and listen to her opinions without jumping in.
momnloveit is offline  
#15 of 20 Old 06-14-2002, 12:02 AM
 
mcimom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Plymouth, MI
Posts: 2,641
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I said this in another thread, but my advice:

Be the kind of husband to your wife that you would like for your daughter to have herself.

WOHM married to SAHD, living the dream w/our: 3 girls (14,12,10) and 3 boys (7,5,3) and tie-breaker due Jan 2014

mcimom is offline  
#16 of 20 Old 06-14-2002, 12:21 PM
 
Juliacat's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Left of center
Posts: 5,412
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
This wasn't really an issue with my dad and me, but I saw it with some of my female friends.

When she goes through puberty, she will be moody and unpredictable, and it's likely she'll also be physically awkward. This may cause tremendous insecurity for her. DO NOT, no matter how innocent it may seem, poke fun at her developing body. Tell her she's beautiful, tell her you love her, and give her as much physical affection as you did before she started developing. Also, even when she's coming way out of left field with mood swings or strange teenage ideas, listen to her and try to see things from her perspective.

It can really crush a person to think that her dad only loved her when she was "his little girl" and that she's somehow not lovable as a woman.

Mommy to eyesroll.gif (age 7) and mischievous.gif (age 3)

Juliacat is offline  
#17 of 20 Old 06-18-2002, 06:55 PM
 
ladylee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: in my skin
Posts: 3,953
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Hi papabliss-

1. Where is a father’s greatest influence in his daughter’s life?

**To a large extent he is her mirror. His validation encourages her to develop healthy self-esteem. His interest in who she is tells her that she is an important, worthy person.

2. As dd grows up, what should a father focus his attention on, and not on? For example, one friend insists that his daughters gained their self-confidence through his encouragement and consistent message to them that they are both smart and beautiful.

**I would agree with that statement in part--but not in the sense of creating a heightened ego. I think a father (and a mother) should take the time to recognize what their daughter is good at/interested in & be supportive. And most of all--be emotionally available & "patrol" your own issues. I remember my dad going through emotional struggles & not being able to handle them--I thought it was me.

3. Finally, the open-ended question…I would like your philosophy, thoughts, warnings, and suggestions about this. I grew up with two sisters and realized that my father, while he tried his best to please them, often he was placed in a no-win situation and received their wrath whenever something went wrong.

**Well, I think I would need more information to comment. Did he gently discipline them? Did they respect him?
ladylee is offline  
#18 of 20 Old 06-21-2002, 03:38 PM - Thread Starter
 
papabliss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 177
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Hi ladylee,

Regarding my father and his daughters, the term gentle disipline is appropriate here. I felt he was always more than fair, and, in fact, I don't remember much more than was is called a Time-Out in today's lingo.

What I meant by him being in a no-win situation is that something would go wrong in my sister's world, and there would be nothing my dad could do, but there might have been some way it could have been prevented had he a crystal ball to predict the future.

For example, if we were traveling and stopping for dinner somewhere, the place we happen to be in did not have the kind of food my sister(s) wanted. People were tired, hungry and now crabby. What is he to do?

Another example is when everyone was in a mad dash to get ready for school in the morning. If a shoe could not be found, or we ran out of a particular breakfast cereal, it would be his fault because he cleaned up the house the night before thus moving the shoe, or he happened to have had some of the cereal sometime in his life thus creating the current shortage.

Anyway, it just seemed like trivial things would catch him off guard and there was no solution. Kind of like when you prepare a nice lunch for the kids and just after you cut the sandwich in half, you are told not to do that, but, of course, there is nothing you can do about it now.

I hope this helps explain my thoughts.

Cheers.
papabliss is offline  
#19 of 20 Old 06-25-2002, 12:52 AM
 
tuodeggol's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 28
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
HI Papabliss

You're a cool dad for caring about this stuff.

Lemme just quickly be the only person here who had a terrible dad - and tell you what I believe a girl should have from a father growing up:

1. Lots and lots and lots of positive reinforcement. Even when she is a teenager and seems to hate you or not care what you think - SHE DOES. Tell her she is great. Let her know how much you love her all the time. Never, under any circumstances, strike her.

2. Never speak negatively to her, even if you are mad. Things my father said to me even as late as my junior year in college still hurt sometimes - and I know they have affected my progress through life a little -- despite intellectually knowing his anger wasn't about me really.

3. Never threaten her. Be consistent and kind - even in whatever discipline she may illicit from you because of shakey behavior. Once you promise her something - you must do everything in your power to keep that promise.
Give her every reason to trust you and to know you are good at your word.

4. Do not ever treat her mother poorly - no matter what happens in your relationship. Someday if you are mad at your wife or might split up - which I hope would never happen - just remember every action you take regarding your wife wil lreflect directly onto your daughter and either reinforce or shake her self-esteem.

5. Do not be critical of your daughter - or her choice of friends or boyfriends. If you don't like who she hangs with - find a positive way to express your feelings- don't criticize her.

6. I agree with everyone here that you should tell her how smart and beautiful she is all the time and tell how you love her at least once every day.

7. Do what you can to show your support of her financially - espcecially in terms of accomplishments or experiences she might seek in life. Be ready to lend a hand if she wants to travel, study abroad, take up something that interests her (ie. horses or photography or pottery - whatever) - and show your support by supplying her - at least partially, with the means to seek out her desires.

That's about it. I wish you well and have a feeling you'll do a great job.

Take care.
tuodeggol is offline  
#20 of 20 Old 06-25-2002, 03:24 PM - Thread Starter
 
papabliss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 177
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Thanks loggedout for your wonderful suggestions.

I have already been caught by my dd more than once saying I will play with her in "just a minute" only to have that minute drag on. She calls me on it, but she should never have to.

Your poignant words struck home.

Cheers.
papabliss is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Drag and Drop File Upload
Drag files here to attach!
Upload Progress: 0
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Mothering Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off