Do I have any say in naming our child? - Page 2 - Mothering Forums

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#31 of 82 Old 10-12-2004, 11:21 AM
 
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Hmm....

I like Kian Alexander!

Just curious - what have you chosen for a girl? Let us know how the birth goes!
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#32 of 82 Old 10-12-2004, 11:29 AM
 
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I'm sorry but NO husband plays an equal part in carrying or birthing a child- creating and raising for sure 100% they can and many do even more

I already stated that I didn't agree witht hat line of thinking- it won't fly in our family- I just thought the comparison to salary was weak at best
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#33 of 82 Old 10-12-2004, 11:37 AM
 
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No but he has an equal part in creating the child... and imo thats means naming too.
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#34 of 82 Old 10-12-2004, 11:38 AM
 
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It is true that a woman takes on great physical risks in order to bear a child - through the pregnancy, labor and birth. At the very least, she experiences minor discomforts. At worst, the pregnancy and delivery can be life-threatening. Most women have experiences that fall somewhere in between these two extremes.

It is precisely because of the risks involved that I wanted to make sure my husband would be invested in our children, were something to happen to me and he was left raising the kids.

I felt that I needed his support tremendously during and after the pregnancy and birth, and I was motivated to find solutions that worked for both of us.

I never would have dreamed of naming the baby something he did not like, even a middle name! Why would I want him to dislike anything about his child? I wanted him to be completely there for us.

This mentality makes absolutely no sense to me in the context of a loving relationship. The children are children of both parents.
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#35 of 82 Old 10-12-2004, 12:06 PM
 
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I guess I've always just been pretty secure in the knowledge that my partner would be invested in the children, that he would bond with them well, that he would be around for them in the future, that he would support me during pregnancy and birth, that he would always be completely there for us, and that none of this would depend on something as superficial as what I name them.

I do want my partner to like the kids' names, and I said before that I probably wouldn't name a child something that he really hated. I do ask his opinion.

The fact that the man gets to be around for the SEX means that he had an EQUAL part in making the child? C'mon.

I'm sure some men would get pregnant if they could, and as soon as that happens, I will support their right to name their babies.

I am not "taking away" a father's right to have a say in the naming of children, since I don't believe that they have that right to begin with.

My partner and I have a very loving relationship.

-Alice, SAHM to dd (2001) and ds (2004) each of whom was a homebirth.jpg, who each self-weaned at 4.5 years bfolderchild.gif, who both fambedsingle2.gif'd, who were bothcd.gif, and both: novaxnocirc.gif.   Also, gd.gif, and goorganic.jpg!

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#36 of 82 Old 10-12-2004, 02:32 PM
 
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Sustainer,
There was nothing superficial about my reasons for wanting my husband to be invested in the child. I had a premonition before birth that I might die in labor. Fortunately, after a long labor, I had a cesarean that saved our lives. My husband was there for me during the long haul and was a wonderful support. My attitude towards the whole experience was that I wanted him very involved. This included the name, it did not hinge on the name. It just went with the territory that we would select names we both liked. The names of our two daughters remind us of family members we both love.

Come on, the name is not superficial. If it's so superficial, who would care?

Some say that it's the woman's right because the baby came out of her body (like a kidney stone). Having a baby, or passing a kidney stone, can be very painful experiences, and life-changing, but they are not superficial.

As far as rights go, I disagree with those who say it's the woman's sole right. Here's why. DH is legally obligated for 18 years or more to our children. How many hundreds of thousands of dollars is he earning over the years so that I can stay home, breastfeed, co-sleep, etc. etc. He also is woken up for all kinds of problems, such as nightmares, is expected to provide discipline, health insurance, Kindermusic classes, French classes, help with homework, take kids to school, I could go on and on. (You wouldn't have to do any of this with his kidney stone.) This makes him way more important than another relative or a friend. IMO, this gives him a little more input than saying I'll agree to consider his opinion about names. Where is the equality in that?

Like I said before, why would I want my husband to not like anything about his own child?

Good leadership requires getting everyone on board. How can you expect him to be an equal partner if he doesn't have equal say in the decisions?

I have no idea how to get his wife to go along with it, though. Sorry, OP.
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#37 of 82 Old 10-12-2004, 02:37 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Girls name is Tara Grace. Boy is Kyan ????? Due date for OUR baby is Oct 25th.


This is for those, well, read it and you will know if it was meant for you. If you are not sure, PM or reply and I will clarify. Forgive me for being to the point, I AM trying to be involved with my child by wanting to name him or her. I do not deny being pregnant is difficult. I would not do it. But that does not mean I am a jerk, just a realist. God created women to bear children, not men. For goodness sakes, I am not just a sperm donor. I am OUR babies father. We both decided it was time for our second child. There are plenty of fathers out there who could care less about there child. I am NOT one of those fathers. Therefore, naming OUR child is very important to me. I do not think my wife gets anymore naming privlages to our child than I do just because she is pregnant. She chose to make babies with me.

She is a SAHM, the thought that since she is pregnant she gets to name the baby is equal to "Since I earn all the money, you have no say how it is spent." What??? I do not not have "My" paycheck. It is our money for us and it is our paycheck for our family. I sure and hell would not do that to her. I respect her for raising our children. I want respect back by being able to having a say so for the middle name if it is a boy. This BS I am pregnant and do all the work for birthing and you have no say in our child is excluding me from the most wonderful time of my life. I am trying to be involved and be a great dad and to be pushed away is hurtful. WTF???

Anyways, keep on with the middle name suggestions. As for the debates, I think I made it clear where I stand.
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#38 of 82 Old 10-12-2004, 05:13 PM
 
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DH and I decide equally on our children's names. He is their father and I just feel it's something we should decide on together. I vetoed many of his choices and he vetoed many of mine. This pg we're not even talking names until after our u/s. Save ourselves a lot of pointless discussions. :LOL We agree on boy names fairly easily but have very different tastes in girl names. DD's name was the only one we both liked! Yes I carry the children in my body and give birth to them and BF them but he's their father too. In the grand scheme of things how much does that matter? I'm sure adoptive parents would say not very much. As someone else said it's not about keeping score and it's not like we decided to have me have the children instead of DH. Now that said they gave me the birth certificate form and I guess I could have named her whatever I wanted but I stuck with our agreed upon name. :LOL
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#39 of 82 Old 10-12-2004, 05:23 PM
 
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I think both parents in a marriage or long term committed relationship should decide together what to name the child. My dh and went back and forth for years on what to name our children. Neither one of us liked the others first choices. We eventually compromised and got a name for our son that we both liked. I do not agree that the mother should get the final say because she is carrying the child. Both parents made the child and are to be involved in the care of the child. Both parents should be treated equally in their relationship with their child.

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#40 of 82 Old 10-12-2004, 06:26 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nurnur4evr
Sustainer,
There was nothing superficial about my reasons for wanting my husband to be invested in the child.
I certainly neither stated nor implied that there was anything superficial about your reasons for wanting your dh to be invested in your child.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nurnur4evr
Come on, the name is not superficial. If it's so superficial, who would care?
I do think that names are relatively superficial things. Sure, nice-sounding words are nice, but should it REALLY matter? It would take a special kind of pettiness for a father to have difficulty bonding with a child or supporting his partner just because he doesn't like the NAME.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nurnur4evr
Having a baby, or passing a kidney stone, can be very painful experiences, and life-changing, but they are not superficial.
I DEFINITELY never said or implied that these things are superficial. It is *because* these experiences are profound that I have strong feelings about the rights of the person involved.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nurnur4evr
As far as rights go, I disagree with those who say it's the woman's sole right. Here's why. DH is legally obligated for 18 years or more to our children. How many hundreds of thousands of dollars is he earning over the years so that I can stay home, breastfeed, co-sleep, etc. etc. He also is woken up for all kinds of problems, such as nightmares, is expected to provide discipline, health insurance, Kindermusic classes, French classes, help with homework, take kids to school, I could go on and on. (You wouldn't have to do any of this with his kidney stone.) This makes him way more important than another relative or a friend. IMO, this gives him a little more input than saying I'll agree to consider his opinion about names. Where is the equality in that?
No, it is not equal. Yes, the father is important, but the supportive role that you describe is not equal to the primary role that a mother plays. And you can't ignore the fact that the child actually came out of her body.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nurnur4evr
Like I said before, why would I want my husband to not like anything about his own child?
And like I said before, I also would like my partner to like the kids' names.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nurnur4evr
Good leadership requires getting everyone on board. How can you expect him to be an equal partner if he doesn't have equal say in the decisions?
I will not grant my partner an equal say in anything having to do with the children. There is no basis for equal rights to children. There IS a basis for the mother having the rights to her children.

To the OP: I think it's great that you want to be involved. I definitely neither said nor implied that men who wouldn't want to be pregnant are jerks. I don't believe in any god, so you're not going to get anywhere with that argument with me. I am glad you are not one of those fathers who could care less about the children.

Quote:
I want respect back by being able to having a say so for the middle name if it is a boy.
You have said this several times now. I asked you at one point why the child's gender should make a difference in whether or not you think you should have a say in the child's name, and, unless I missed it, you did not answer.

Once again, I'm glad you want to be involved and want to be a great dad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wasabi
Yes I carry the children in my body and give birth to them and BF them but he's their father too. In the grand scheme of things how much does that matter? I'm sure adoptive parents would say not very much.
Do you mean that who carries the baby and gives birth to it and breastfeeds it does not matter very much? If so, then this must be the basis for the fundamental difference in opinion here, because I believe that these things matter VERY much indeed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wasabi
As someone else said it's not about keeping score and it's not like we decided to have me have the children instead of DH.
Like I said before it's not a matter of "keeping score." It's a simple matter of a person having a fundamental right to what comes out of their body. It doesn't matter that you didn't consciously choose to be the one who had the children. The fact is, you ARE the one who had the children. And that matters. A LOT. There are rights that come with that.

Quote:
Both parents made the child and are to be involved in the care of the child. Both parents should be treated equally in their relationship with their child.
Again, getting to have SEX entitles one to EQUAL treatment in their relationship with the child?? Equal to the person who grows the child in her body for nine months, labors, and births the child from her body?? I don't think so!!!

-Alice, SAHM to dd (2001) and ds (2004) each of whom was a homebirth.jpg, who each self-weaned at 4.5 years bfolderchild.gif, who both fambedsingle2.gif'd, who were bothcd.gif, and both: novaxnocirc.gif.   Also, gd.gif, and goorganic.jpg!

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#41 of 82 Old 10-12-2004, 07:01 PM
 
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I am in a relationship with my dh where we both have committed to taking care of each other and our children. My dh "getting" to have sex with me does give him equal treatment in his relationship with our child. We made a conscious choice and a concerted effort to have a child. We were having sex to have a child. I could have done it physically without him but not emotionally. As someone else has stated about her dh, he works very hard to that I can stay home and care for the children. I've been a single parent so I know the difference between a sperm donor and a father. I don't see a name as such an important thing as to insist that I get my way whether my dh likes it or not. OTOH, I would not just allow my dh to pick a name without my input. Like I said, we discussed over and over again until we agreed on names we both liked. I do not believe that a woman has a right to her children to the exclusion of the father. Fathers are very important to children and should be encouraged to become involved with their children in every way they can.

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#42 of 82 Old 10-12-2004, 07:43 PM
 
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I'm starting to feel bad for the OP here. Wouldn't it just be easier if we could suggest some middle names & see if one resonates with both mom & dad?

I like Kian Michael and Kian James if you want to go with a less unusual sounding middle name (in case he wants to go by a less uncommon name).

Good luck.
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#43 of 82 Old 10-12-2004, 10:40 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sustainer
Again, getting to have SEX entitles one to EQUAL treatment in their relationship with the child?? Equal to the person who grows the child in her body for nine months, labors, and births the child from her body?? [B
I don't think so!!![/B]

I think if your in a loving commited marriage or relationship.. The act of making a baby together is not just "getting to have sex"... Im sorry.. my DH and I are trying to have a baby.. WE make love, WE make life.... TOGETHER.... It isnt just humping for me OR him. WE made the choice to spend the rest of our days together, WE made the choice to have children together.. as Partners. He busts his butt and risks his life supporting me and OUR children... Yeah I would say he is equal to everything I am equal to.

Yeah you carry and birth and breastfeed.. so you have 100%? What about that loving mother and father that can't carry that baby, and have to have a surrogate mother, and can't breastfeed... who gets 100% then??


OP: Im soooo excited for you to have your baby and see what the final name is!!! I kinda of like Kyan Lane... just popped in my head
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#44 of 82 Old 10-12-2004, 10:56 PM
 
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ChristaN, you are so right.

Dear Bayviewbill31, the reason I have not suggested a name is because it is so personal. My children are named after family members, who had qualities we would love to see in our children, such as strength, kindness, and gentleness.

Having said that, I hate to admit this, but I actually like the name Kiam Andrew. It makes me think of that actor, Liam somebody, in a Scottish kilt. And Andrew sounds royal, like Prince Andrew, so the combined image is one of royalty, stardom, strength, and upholding tradition, values & principles. All of this set in a Scottish castle, like Balmoral.

I think you are basically in the right. If a dad is trying to be as involved as you are, we women should show our appreciation! My hat's off to you!

But, if you can't beat 'em, join 'em.

let us know when the big event arrives.
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#45 of 82 Old 10-12-2004, 11:18 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sustainer
Do you mean that who carries the baby and gives birth to it and breastfeeds it does not matter very much? If so, then this must be the basis for the fundamental difference in opinion here, because I believe that these things matter VERY much indeed.
........
Again, getting to have SEX entitles one to EQUAL treatment in their relationship with the child?? Equal to the person who grows the child in her body for nine months, labors, and births the child from her body?? I don't think so!!!
Yes that is what I mean. I do believe that there is much more to life than just who carries a child. Maybe that's because I am a birthmother. I carried those children and they came from my body but another woman has raised them and is their mother. As for your second question the law certainly disagrees with you. Children have two parents and once they are born their fathers have equal rights to them. Children do not belong only to their mothers. I really hate to even use the word "belong" because it reduces children to objects but that seems to be very much what you are doing here.
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#46 of 82 Old 10-13-2004, 12:00 AM
 
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Are you friggin' kidding me?!?! The father has no rights to his children?!?! I see one woman who feels this way is even the mother of a son. I'd love to watch her eat her embarrassing words when that son becomes a father and therefore makes her a grandmother. You know, he would be meaningless also by this silly belief. My goodness, the thought of your own son becoming meaningless one day...I'm sure even the dimmest of the bunch would disagree whole-heartedly.

What's even more infuriating it that this poor little boy is being demasculinized daily by this horrid woman's man-hating views. Yah for me, I own a uterus. Yah for me, I own milk ducts. Cower in my superiority you inferior man. Believe me, I also homebirth and I know the work of pregnancy and birth. Oddly enough, my husband was there everyday to hold me hair back as I puked, massage my back and feet, watches our sons while I sleep until noon everyday , and even was the one who received our sons at their birth, cut their cords, even delivered their placentas and cleaned up my bloody trail through the house. I am pregnant with twins now and I'm sure my pregnancy whining will only get worse, yet he'll still be there through everything. And he will be there trying to comfort screaming babies without the miracle cure all of working breasts after their birth.

Once the cord is cut, our special status as carriers of the children is over. When I am not pregnant I have never thrown it in his face for guilt or pity that I carried "his" children. Boy, do I feel sorry for the poor men who hears this bull everyday. Maybe it is out of manipulation or feminism indorctrination that woman grasp this one sense of our womanhood and hold it over our sounterparts heads until the day they die. Or maybe it's just stupidity.

When you start reproducing asexually, we might buy your rediculous belief.

We welcomed our 3rd , 7th September 23, 2010!
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#47 of 82 Old 10-13-2004, 01:06 AM
 
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Well, if I were to suggest a middle name, I'd say go with Andrew. That's my teenagers middle name. The whole name is actually quite similar, Ryan Andrew.

Thought of two other things. No one has ever used his middle name. It's on all his important documents but that's it. You can always go without a middle name. I don't have one. Although, I have always felt like I missed out on something by not having one, maybe a cute nickname or something.

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#48 of 82 Old 10-13-2004, 01:33 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amberlyn
It isnt just humping for me OR him.
I was not saying that it is. I was simply saying that the man's part in the making of the baby is not equal to the woman's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amberlyn
Yeah you carry and birth and breastfeed.. so you have 100%? What about that loving mother and father that can't carry that baby, and have to have a surrogate mother, and can't breastfeed... who gets 100% then??
The surrogate mother does, until she signs over her rights to the adoptive parents.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wasabi
As for your second question the law certainly disagrees with you. Children have two parents and once they are born their fathers have equal rights to them. Children do not belong only to their mothers. I really hate to even use the word "belong" because it reduces children to objects but that seems to be very much what you are doing here.
The law disagrees with me because we live in a patriarchal society. Luckily, the laws of nature make it possible for a woman to triumph over the laws of man if she wishes. We don't even have to tell the father that he's a father if we don't want to, and then we can leave the father's name off of the birth certificate and Bam the law recognizes our 100% rights to the child (as I think it should in every case any way). Neener neener neener (forgive me if I'm starting to take this lightly). In my own case I took care of the legal end by having my partner sign and date a document saying that I have 100% rights to my children (the wording is more official). He was completely willing to do so because he agrees with me completely about this (I wouldn't have gotten involved with him if he didn't agree with this. I would never become involved with a man who didn't acknowledge my absolute right to any children I might have. And no, I did not tell him that he had to agree with this if he wanted to be involved with me. He really does agree with it.) Since I have this document I went ahead and had my partner's name put on the birth certificate.

I do not think of children as objects and I don't like the word "belong" either, but I can't think of a better word.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MyCalling
You know, he would be meaningless also by this silly belief. My goodness, the thought of your own son becoming meaningless one day...I'm sure even the dimmest of the bunch would disagree whole-heartedly.
People seem determined to put words in my mouth. I NEVER said that fathers are meaningless. Of course my son will never become meaningless. But I will support my daughter in law's right to name and have custody of her children.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MyCalling
Yah for me, I own a uterus. Yah for me, I own milk ducts. Cower in my superiority you inferior man.
I am neither a hater of men nor have I said any of these things. I have simply said that when a baby comes out of a person's body, that baby belongs to that person. That is ALL I have said. The rest of these ideas are coming from your own head, and I do not share any of them.

My partner has been a great support to me and I have always told him how much I appreciate his support.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MyCalling
Once the cord is cut, our special status as carriers of the children is over.
No way. I disagree completely with this. It's never over. I will always retain the special status I attained through this act, and no one can invalidate it.

Any way, since I am now being attacked personally (generally the last resort of someone who lacks a reasonable argument), I will simply post a link for those who wish to understand my opinion, and then unsubscribe from this thread, which I'm sure will make everyone happy.

http://www.devrock.5u.com/about.html

-Alice, SAHM to dd (2001) and ds (2004) each of whom was a homebirth.jpg, who each self-weaned at 4.5 years bfolderchild.gif, who both fambedsingle2.gif'd, who were bothcd.gif, and both: novaxnocirc.gif.   Also, gd.gif, and goorganic.jpg!

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#49 of 82 Old 10-13-2004, 01:40 AM
 
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I hope this "partner" doesn't have to pay for YOUR children then. (But wait, I'm sure there is a loophole for this one ) Thanks for the link. My theory on feminist indoctrination was dead on.

We welcomed our 3rd , 7th September 23, 2010!
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#50 of 82 Old 10-13-2004, 06:43 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wasabi
Yes that is what I mean. I do believe that there is much more to life than just who carries a child. Maybe that's because I am a birthmother. I carried those children and they came from my body but another woman has raised them and is their mother. As for your second question the law certainly disagrees with you. Children have two parents and once they are born their fathers have equal rights to them. Children do not belong only to their mothers. I really hate to even use the word "belong" because it reduces children to objects but that seems to be very much what you are doing here.
]

Not to split hairs- but if the father tries to fill out the hospital paperwork they'll throw it out and bring another one. The mother is the one to name the child, ultimately- she alone decides what information goes on the birth certificate.

I think is is shame that so many people are attacking sustainer personally- if you would listen she makes some valid arguments and prefaced it ALL by saying she would not choose a name her DP didn't agree on.

Let us not forget that the OP ASKED opinions- not on names- but on wether or not he had a say in naming his child. I agree that he certainly should- it is the moral and ethical thing to do in a committed relationship.

That said, the law does recognize a woman's right to name a child what she chooses- which is why she alone fills out the birth certificate and social security information. I actually had to find a place to squeeze in my DP's signature on the paperwork because I wanted to.

Sustainer has a very interesting and unique POV- but it certainly isn't wrong for her to have it. Do you know how many times I wished and prayed that moms got priority (when possible) in custody battles? My father had more education than my mother, and was older than my mother and the judge (a hardcore "feminist" who felt it should all be equal) was trying to change the world- and as such I spent my entire life with my father. I do, many times over, think I would have been better off with my mother. And not just for who they were individually were. Men and women are biologically different (fact, no?)

ETA- for the breastfeeding advocates, do you think that if there is a custody battle the father should be given equal custody even when it means the child can't be succesfully breastfed? I know more than one family where the child weaned prematurely (and tramatically imo) because of spending so much time away from the breasts that were there to nourish them.
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#51 of 82 Old 10-13-2004, 11:47 AM
 
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Yes, Sustainer does have a valid point of view.

However, it is a question of knowing when to give up some control for a greater good.

That was the point that I was trying to make with my labor story. I had never felt so vulnerable before I was pregnant. Sustained came back with a very self-assured response, which missed my point, and irritated me. I'm glad she is so sure of her relationship that she KNOWS her partner will ALWAYS be there and COMPLETELY bonded to their child. So much 100% confidence in EVERYTHING - and in how everyone else around her will react and bond with each other. It was irritating to me, and I admit that I put words in her mouth after that. Sorry about that, Sustained, if you're still here. But I don't have that much control in my life, nor do I want to.

Sometimes life is about sacrificing something important to you for something that is important to others. In my case that was the continuity of life, the continuity of my family without me, if that should happen. You can be completely right, but what good is it, if others are feeling frustrated and left out?

It's not all about us, ladies.
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#52 of 82 Old 10-13-2004, 12:56 PM
 
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I knwo where you are coming from, and others who disagree with her. I see both sides, but sustainer is a lone voice so I felt the need to say something. I think it is great that you acknowledged putting words in her mouth, that is very frustrating to anyone to experience.

Just to clarify my point about breastfeeding- most of us hardcore "lactivists" will agree that unless there is some reason why it can not be, the mother should have primary care while breastfeeding until weaned. Sustainers view is not all that different, hers just exceeds the biological fact of breastfeeding. I don't think she ever meant to imply that if a father leaves he should never get to see or be a part of his child's life, but rather that there is biological and physical reasons why a mother should maintain primary care (correct me if I am wrong Sustainer )I was trying to point out how many of us hold similar views, even if not spoken of so plainly.

I think she and I, and most others agree that the ethical and right thing to do is find a name that you mutually agree upon- nobody is telling him to suck it up and deal with it. I for one, hope he is able to use his communicative skills to work through this with his wife and has a say a naming his child- male or female.
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#53 of 82 Old 10-13-2004, 03:41 PM
 
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Rainbow,

Thanks for being a voice of reason here!
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#54 of 82 Old 10-13-2004, 06:11 PM
 
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Allright, I have to admit that even though I don't agree that women "should" get to choose the name of thier children regardless of the father's input, I am a little partial to Sustainer argument.

For me it is just the frustrating assumption that every kid should get the father's last name. Drives me CRAZY. So I guess I feel a little like the mother choosing the first two names makes the naming game a little more even.

But, of course, both parents should decide together and agree (though that means last names too - afterall, the kids are as much of the wife's family as the husband's).

Anyway, there is my guilty admission. I don't agree with Sustainer though I am still rooting her on
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#55 of 82 Old 10-13-2004, 06:32 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainbow
I don't think she ever meant to imply that if a father leaves he should never get to see or be a part of his child's life, but rather that there is biological and physical reasons why a mother should maintain primary care...
Unless there is a separation of the child's parents, I don't see why it matters who has "primary care" of the child, unless it's to make one parent seem more worthy and important than the other. If a mother wants to have all the say in how a child is raised, then she'd better be prepared to raise the child herself. You can't have your cake and eat it, too.
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#56 of 82 Old 10-13-2004, 07:30 PM
 
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I think that is what she was mentioning if you go back a few more posts. The thread got a little off topic and some criticised that she has documentation to validate that in the case of seperation she has 100% rights to her child. Then there were some objections to that opinion.
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#57 of 82 Old 10-13-2004, 09:22 PM
 
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This has been an interesting conversation.

First- to the OP-- congrats on your new addition and yay for being involved! After the experience I went/am going through I give kudos to any man who wants a say in his childs life My now ex didn't give a rats butt what our childs name was. His mom suggested Elijah one day and so that's what he said he wanted. When ds was born he just wasn't an Elijah. I asked him if he had any other names he liked but I got the standard response "I don't care, do whatever you want". He didn't even know what DS was named until I "made" him sign the birth certificate

Next- I like what Sustainer had to say. I really do. If only it were true in the real life courts. However, it is not. And once a baby is born both parents have equal rights. Even a nursing baby. Who can, and sometimes is, taken away for long periods of time- even overnights- before the breastfeeding relationship is even established. And there are even some states where GRANDPARENTS rights come before a parents. Yup, a court can and does order children, sometimes nursing small children, to go with someone who didn't even have any part in their birth, even though the mother/father doesn't want them too. A messed up world we live in.

Steph, DH Jason (1-1-11), DS Owen (10-3-03) and DS Kai (10-13-11)

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#58 of 82 Old 10-14-2004, 02:08 AM
 
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I've been lurking and am really interested to see what the baby is named. Should find out w/in the month!


Quote:
In my own case I took care of the legal end by having my partner sign and date a document saying that I have 100% rights to my children (the wording is more official). He was completely willing to do so because he agrees with me completely about this (I wouldn't have gotten involved with him if he didn't agree with this. I would never become involved with a man who didn't acknowledge my absolute right to any children I might have. And no, I did not tell him that he had to agree with this if he wanted to be involved with me. He really does agree with it.)
I went and read your website and it was very interesting.

It also, though, made me realize that we are not argueing w/the same "facts" so we will never reach the same conclusion. Not bad, just different

When I married DH (and yes, we are married, though I'm not sure if I would do it now for many of the reasons you list, it was important to both of us then and I have no reason to change that) we became one. Our ideal is one, at least. DH was right there with me through everything (and beyond, actually, I got a lot more sleep, food & rest than he ever did). I actually have no desire to name my children by myself So, it is actually hard for me to say *if* I think the father (more specifically, the partner) should get a say. Because, realistically, I think they get a say because they are a committed partner, NOT for being a committed father.

What do I mean? If I were single and the father of the baby was very interested in the baby, I would probably take their input less seriously than if I were in a committed relationship with someone who wasn't that interested. Of course, DH & I picked the name for our son (which we didn't use, lol, it got waaay too popular, even more popular than the names we did use, in the 5 years between picking it and having a son) before we were even married. We concieved together, we have our children together. We named them together. This thread has really made me think, though--- I would think nothing of a single woman naming her child on her own--- even if the father was involved. But for a person in a relationship, it feels so "wrong". Hmmmm, thanks for giving me something to think about.

 

 

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#59 of 82 Old 10-14-2004, 02:26 PM - Thread Starter
 
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nurnur4evr wrote "Having said that, I hate to admit this, but I actually like the name Kiam Andrew. It makes me think of that actor, Liam somebody, in a Scottish kilt. And Andrew sounds royal, like Prince Andrew, so the combined image is one of royalty, stardom, strength, and upholding tradition, values & principles. All of this set in a Scottish castle, like Balmoral." Good angle. I'll consider Andrew. You gave me a new light on the name Andrew. BTW: Our son is Liam (the actor is Liam Neeson). If this baby is a boy he will be Kyan ... Liam and Kyan. Our two lil' Irish boys. Minus the Guiness! :P

"I think you are basically in the right. If a dad is trying to be as involved as you are, we women should show our appreciation! My hat's off to you!" Thank you. Men are not "held accountable to be men our fathers. It is about time we do so. What kind of hat do you wear? :P

"But, if you can't beat 'em, join 'em." I do not beat my wife. :P

"let us know when the big event arrives." DW is having Braxton Hicks contractions. Perhaps soon.
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#60 of 82 Old 10-14-2004, 03:38 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StephandOwen
And once a baby is born both parents have equal rights. Even a nursing baby. Who can, and sometimes is, taken away for long periods of time- even overnights- before the breastfeeding relationship is even established. And there are even some states where GRANDPARENTS rights come before a parents. Yup, a court can and does order children, sometimes nursing small children, to go with someone who didn't even have any part in their birth, even though the mother/father doesn't want them too. A messed up world we live in.
This got me thinking about my thoughts on "rights" to the child, so the speak. I am thinking that what really matters here is not the mother's rights, the father's right, or someone else's right. What we, as attachment parents, probably ought to consider in the forefront is the child's rights.

In other words, in a separation situation, the mother probably ought to have full custody of an infant b/c it is the child's right (IMO) to be breastfed. That can't be accomplished if s/he is away from mom too much. But, this has nothing to do with whether dad should be fully involved in the areas where mom doesn't have some unique ability (like bf) that dad doesn't have such as the naming process. Mom has no unique ability to pick a better name than dad. IMO, dad's naming ideas ought to carry as much weight as mom's.

That said, my DH wanted to name our kids Mossimo (boy) or Tosca (girl). He is Italian, as you may be able to tell. I truly disliked those names, so neither of our kids are named anything that would have been a first choice for him. Of course, they are not named my first choices either. They do have names that we both like, though (Angelina & Tessa Rose).
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