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Old 07-07-2006, 04:34 PM
 
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I'm glad you know where the police station is now. My husband and I, plus our two daughters, had a similar road rage incident where a young guy (driving erratically-nearly hit us when weaving in and out of lanes-got incensed when dh honked to avoid an accident,) tailed us off the freeway and followed us. DH drove to the police station and parked in the parking lot-the guy got out of his car and came over to ours, making threatening gestures at us through the window. I was calling the police on the cell. I guess he finally realized where he was and he jumped back in his car and took off-they sent a squad car after him.

Personally, I wouldn't want any type of firearm near my kids. Personally, when I have my kids with me I would avoid altercations of any type, even if it meant letting the guy get away with something (different in your case, I know.) But I'd call in their license plate.
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Old 07-07-2006, 05:36 PM
 
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If Yoshua was a woman, would there be as much debate?

Honestly, think about it.

If I had posted the same exact OP but said, I am a woman who isn't trained in any martial arts, my cell phone never gets coverage (sprint is terrible here in LR), and I don't even know where the police stations are around town. So, had I been followed down a road and pulled a gun on a man following me, would it be more legitimate? I think Yoshua would be flamed less if he weren't a man. That is my opinion and thought after reading through ALL the posts.
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Old 07-07-2006, 05:40 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cardinal
If Yoshua was a woman, would there be as much debate?

Honestly, think about it.

If I had posted the same exact OP but said, I am a woman who isn't trained in any martial arts, my cell phone never gets coverage (sprint is terrible here in LR), and I don't even know where the police stations are around town. So, had I been followed down a road and pulled a gun on a man following me, would it be more legitimate? I think Yoshua would be flamed less if he weren't a man. That is my opinion and thought after reading through ALL the posts.


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Old 07-07-2006, 05:48 PM
 
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I've been lurking on this thread, but hesitant to post, but I completely agree with you, Cardinal. That came to my mind last night as I was reading the thread. I think posters are seeing it as more of a hot-headed move pulled off by some macho man, rather than an act of protection by a family man. Was it sensible? No, not really, but sometimes drastic situations result in drastic measures. I think a woman would have been judged as reacting to "protect" her child & this guy is getting a bad rap. I don't support the use of firearms, but I don't think that Yoshua is a bad guy for doing this.

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Old 07-07-2006, 05:50 PM
 
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just so you guys know. it wasnt me. lol it was moose

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Old 07-07-2006, 06:04 PM
 
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Ha! Good for you---I'm a mom, but I carry, too. We should use the rights we are given---if we don't defend them, they'll be taken away. They're already trying to take homebirth away just like they are gun-carrying. Will everything be illegal soon that should be unalienable? Hmm....better clean up Washington and the State.
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Old 07-07-2006, 06:13 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cardinal
If Yoshua was a woman, would there be as much debate?

Honestly, think about it.

If I had posted the same exact OP but said, I am a woman who isn't trained in any martial arts, my cell phone never gets coverage (sprint is terrible here in LR), and I don't even know where the police stations are around town. So, had I been followed down a road and pulled a gun on a man following me, would it be more legitimate? I think Yoshua would be flamed less if he weren't a man. That is my opinion and thought after reading through ALL the posts.
I find that in general a woman would have exhausted all of her resources before she instigated a confrontation. Sorry, that is not really ment to be a gender descrimination on my part, but the chemicals that influence our actions are signifcantly different and a male human is much more likely to fight for dominance instead of heading for safety than a female human when placed in this situation.
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Old 07-07-2006, 06:18 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ShaggyDaddy
I find that in general a woman would have exhausted all of her resources before she instigated a confrontation. Sorry, that is not really ment to be a gender descrimination on my part, but the chemicals that influence our actions are signifcantly different and a male human is much more likely to fight for dominance instead of heading for safety than a female human when placed in this situation.

Please do not gross generalize.


Being a woman does not make you all knowing and calm in all situations. I have real life examples but my mother probably doesnt want me talking about my child hood or her beating up one of my friends dads.


And trust me.... he ran for safety. No dominance in him.

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Old 07-07-2006, 06:37 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Yoshua
Please do not gross generalize.
Being a woman does not make you all knowing and calm in all situations. I have real life examples but my mother probably doesnt want me talking about my child hood or her beating up one of my friends dads.
Anicdotal evidence has no correlation to statistical behavior.

I did not say that women were calm OR all knowing, I simply said that the chemicals which influence their actions are different from men's. Most any emotional or hormonal response can be supressed... that is what makes us human.

It is widely accepted that Testosterone accounts for vastly more aggressive behavior in men and boys compared to women.

This is not generalization this is chemistry.
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Old 07-07-2006, 06:45 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ShaggyDaddy
Anicdotal evidence has no correlation to statistical behavior.

I did not say that women were calm OR all knowing, I simply said that the chemicals which influence their actions are different from men's. Most any emotional or hormonal response can be supressed... that is what makes us human.

It is widely accepted that Testosterone accounts for vastly more aggressive behavior in men and boys compared to women.

This is not generalization this is chemistry.

Being a man I know myself. I know my friends.

Alcohal makes us vastly more aggressive. Not testosterone. just being honest.

I can logically think through most situations without getting heated. I am a man. I guess i throw that curve off.


Oh, and it isn't accepted by me, and as for some of the people here? they tend to disagree with gross generalizations unless it 'fits their mold' of how society is.


I reject gross generalizations on principle because 90% of them are wrong on individual bases.


and 90% of statistics are made up on the fly.

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Old 07-07-2006, 06:55 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Yoshua
just so you guys know. it wasnt me. lol it was moose
I am sorry. I meant Moose.
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Old 07-07-2006, 07:00 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ShaggyDaddy
I find that in general a woman would have exhausted all of her resources before she instigated a confrontation. Sorry, that is not really ment to be a gender descrimination on my part, but the chemicals that influence our actions are signifcantly different and a male human is much more likely to fight for dominance instead of heading for safety than a female human when placed in this situation.
Are you joking?


If I had posted the OP, I think I'd get far fewer inflammatory posts. Let's not get "in general" this or that. I am talking about this post. This experience.

I own a gun. A 9mm Springfiled XD. I am a great shot. Far better than most of my husband's friends. This isn't about "dominance," as you wrote. This is about defending yourself and your child/ren.

If you think a man is oging to be more likely to "fight" when his child is involved (then a woman), you have never been around a mama protecting her cub. I would do anything to protect my son, and if that meant shooing away a man following me by displaying a weapon, then so be it.
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Old 07-07-2006, 07:02 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Yoshua
I can logically think through most situations without getting heated. I am a man. I guess i throw that curve off.
Humans can use logic to regulate their emotional responses when necessary.

Alcohol is a chemical that supresses the ability of your brain to think logically.

The alcohol did not make you aggressive, it stopped the process that normally keeps you from being aggressive, it is a subtle difference (with the same outcome).

Were is the generalization:
There is a chemical called Testosterone which is known to cause aggressive behavior. I would expect a person who has 20 times more of it to take more aggressive actions.

These two groups are Men and Women.
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Old 07-07-2006, 07:03 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Cardinal
Are you joking?


If I had posted the OP, I think I'd get far fewer inflammatory posts. Let's not get "in general" this or that. I am talking about this post. This experience.

I own a gun. A 9mm Springfiled XD. I am a great shot. Far better than most of my husband's friends. This isn't about "dominance," as you wrote. This is about defending yourself and your child/ren.

If you think a man is oging to be more likely to "fight" when his child is involved (then a woman), you have never been around a mama protecting her cub. I would do anything to protect my son, and if that meant shooing away a man following me by displaying a weapon, then so be it.

I like you.

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Old 07-07-2006, 07:05 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ShaggyDaddy
Humans can use logic to regulate their emotional responses when necessary.

Alcohol is a chemical that supresses the ability of your brain to think logically.

The alcohol did not make you aggressive, it stopped the process that normally keeps you from being aggressive, it is a subtle difference (with the same outcome).

Were is the generalization:
There is a chemical called Testosterone which is known to cause aggressive behavior. I would expect a person who has 20 times more of it to take more aggressive actions.

These two groups are Men and Women.

I agree with Cardinal.

Sorry, but a mother defending her children would be more likely to fight tooth and nail in my opinion.


we may have to agree to disagree, but you are wrong in my opinion.


Separating this issue via sexes is wrong. Situationally, I would say a woman who has the same training as moose would perform similar actions of aggression in some way shape or form. And anyone who says otherwise I would say 'you weren't in the situation'. And unless we are in the situation, we don't really know now do we?


do we?

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Old 07-07-2006, 09:33 PM
 
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If I woman posted the OP I'd still be just as disgusted that threatening deadly violence is being advocated and supported on this website. As MANY people have shown, it was and is possible to deal with situations like this without even thinking about killing someone or threatening them with a gun. And as MANY people have shown, Moose was totally out of line to point his gun at that person's head. I don't care what the police say (but a little voice inside my head is saying 'of course the police said it's okay - look at their behaviour with guns').

The bottom line is that Moose did something violent and unnecessary, then came here to ask for support. When he didn't get the support he wanted he got his undies in a knot and started challenging people, throwing around generalisations and tried to justify his actions. When those challenges were met, generalisations were debunked and justifications shown to be flimsy, he showed that he doesn't behave with a level head under pressure - which shows me that his reaction was probably one of testosterone rather than reason. He has shown through inconsistencies with his recounts that he either fabricated/embellished with his first post, or is lying to appease/make it seem better than it really was. It makes me wonder what the whole, true story is. And I also wonder exactly why it was posted. Moose knows he did the wrong thing - so why come here for support? And if he wanted a support-only thread, only replied to by dads, he should have stated so in the OP. Just because he (and others) can't deal with the opposition doesn't mean the opposition is wrong.
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Old 07-07-2006, 10:09 PM
 
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Sorry, Yoshua!

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Old 07-07-2006, 10:18 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cardinal
If Yoshua was a woman, would there be as much debate?

Honestly, think about it.

If I had posted the same exact OP but said, I am a woman who isn't trained in any martial arts, my cell phone never gets coverage (sprint is terrible here in LR), and I don't even know where the police stations are around town. So, had I been followed down a road and pulled a gun on a man following me, would it be more legitimate? I think Yoshua would be flamed less if he weren't a man. That is my opinion and thought after reading through ALL the posts.
I agree with everything you said.
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Old 07-07-2006, 10:19 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Yoshua
I like you.
I do too
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Old 07-07-2006, 10:22 PM
 
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I would like to agree with Yosh in all he has said. None of us were in that car and we do not know how we would have reacted. I would have been very nervous and upset had someone went out of their way to follow me for that long. I am not at 100% agreement with drawing the gun in the situation but I am sure the OP would choose a different route next time. I think he realized after the fact whatelse he could have done to defuse the situation. Sometimes fear gets the best of us.
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Old 07-07-2006, 10:23 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Mavournin
Why don't you ask my Dh, who worked at WTC on 9/11, if he thinks he needs all this "protecting". Don't invoke 9/11 because you think it backs up your arguments. You just wind up offending people who actually have some tangible connection. That's my soapbox.
And you are assuming I might not...
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Old 07-07-2006, 11:26 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ShaggyDaddy
I find that in general a woman would have exhausted all of her resources before she instigated a confrontation. Sorry, that is not really ment to be a gender descrimination on my part, but the chemicals that influence our actions are signifcantly different and a male human is much more likely to fight for dominance instead of heading for safety than a female human when placed in this situation.
Sorry but I do have to disagree w/this. Different motivators maybe but I do actually know women who are quite assertive due to fear. An aquaintance was telling me that someone flipped her off while at an intersection and motioned as though to intimidate her. She went to the gun store, bought a lock box thing and bolted it to the floor of her cab so she could "defend her babies" next time someone tried that. I asked her if she knew she'd go to jail if she fired on someone in traffic and she replied that she'd rather be in jail & know she protected her babies from a potentially deadly incident.
Yeah, so not testosterone in her situation but fear of beign a victim (again). Same woman won't go hiking in the woods w/o a shotgun for bears. Again...fear.
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Old 07-08-2006, 01:06 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Yoshua
and 90% of statistics are made up on the fly.
I thought it was 95%...or was it 73%?

I would gladly shoot the freakin pope and not think twice if I thought it were necessary to protect my babies. The thing about that is, you dont know if its necessary until its too late. Had Moose decided that it was too risky to carry his weapon in the car with him, then had driven around blindly trying to find a police station...or even pulled into a gas station in the hopes that a public place would scare the other car off he could have gotten shot, the car could have been jacked with the baby and it could have turned out bad. There isnt a great chance of it, but are we to wait until someone tells us flat out "its my intention to cause harm to you and your child" before we do something?

And another thing while I am standing on my . Ive read at least a few times people saying basically that he asked for support, didnt get it and now hes upset. There are a great number of posters that HAVE supported his decision.

I don't know how accurate it is to say that crime rates are so low in Canada...i mean, I understand the numbers, but, it seems to me that if you took all the Canadians and crammed them into NYC the violent crime rate would skyrocket - with or without guns. There is a book written about how so many animals in the wild are healthy and non-agressive, then you cram them into a small place like a zoo and and they start killing and hurting each other left and right. Maybe things are just so spread out in Canada (overall, I realize there are some cities) that people just don't get on each other's nerves like they do here? My brother just drove through the Yukon. His truck was broken into and a bunch of stuff was stolen. Totally wiped him out because he had everything he owns in his truck He had driven all the way up the east coast of the US and then across it east to west and hadn't had any problems. I'm not trying to say Canada is more full of crime than the US, just saying that maybe it's just different circumstances that you just can't compare.
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Old 07-08-2006, 02:40 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Tinas3muskateers
I would like to agree with Yosh in all he has said. None of us were in that car and we do not know how we would have reacted. I would have been very nervous and upset had someone went out of their way to follow me for that long. I am not at 100% agreement with drawing the gun in the situation but I am sure the OP would choose a different route next time. I think he realized after the fact whatelse he could have done to defuse the situation. Sometimes fear gets the best of us.

:


to you Moose, because I feel you did what you felt was right at the time.

I also send Yoshua a for being a better man than the "donor" and being a dad to your stepchild. You are that childs dad in every way that counts!(no matter what some people on here may say!!)
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Old 07-08-2006, 12:58 PM
 
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I do too

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Old 07-08-2006, 03:09 PM
 
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Card... I would hate to see someone piss the both of us off together!!!! If you weren't before, you are even more so now my girl!!! I totally agree with you on this. ( SURPRISE!!!!!!!!!!! ) In my opinion, a parent, mom OR dad, would react this way. I will never understand why a man with a gun is anymore threatening than a women, anyPERSON, hell, any animal, be it a monkey, dog or cow, any of them with a gun is scary. Guns don't disciminate against who holds it. And IMO women are better shots than men, it has been proven . I will never understand why they are so shocked when we out shoot the pants off of them!!
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Old 07-08-2006, 05:48 PM
 
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Wow, I had no idea so many people were into packing heat on MDC. Wow. Just....Wow.

To me it all boils down to the media (and gun obsession) really cramming fear & violence down our throats. Everybody is so afraid of everybody else (in the USA) to the point that they think that teenagers are going to kill them. That is not normal. Drive around until they go away. Teenagers have short attention spans.

I completely agree with the PP who stated that guns buy false security.

Again. Wow.
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Old 07-08-2006, 07:12 PM
 
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sorry this happened to you moose. i support your actions. so does my husband.
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Old 07-08-2006, 07:47 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bellona
I thought it was 95%...or was it 73%?

I would gladly shoot the freakin pope and not think twice if I thought it were necessary to protect my babies. The thing about that is, you dont know if its necessary until its too late. Had Moose decided that it was too risky to carry his weapon in the car with him, then had driven around blindly trying to find a police station...or even pulled into a gas station in the hopes that a public place would scare the other car off he could have gotten shot, the car could have been jacked with the baby and it could have turned out bad. There isnt a great chance of it, but are we to wait until someone tells us flat out "its my intention to cause harm to you and your child" before we do something?


I totally back you Moose. We all do what we believe to be necessary in whatever situation we are in.

Rebecca wife of Megan...moms to six crazy kiddos! Seth (15), Madison (13), Zachary (12), Trevor (12), Alex (10), and Nicholas (9)
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Old 07-08-2006, 08:04 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Lazyhead
Drive around until they go away. Teenagers have short attention spans.
Yeah, no kidding! I mean, for those of us who DON'T obsessively walk around with an arsenal, several different ways of handling a situation like that spring to mind.

Guns seem to limit people's ability to think creatively, at the very least. :
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