Would you ever own a gun? - Page 3 - Mothering Forums

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#61 of 165 Old 11-21-2008, 02:41 PM
 
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Could and do. Like anything else, safety is 1#. I think with the proper precautions, it is no more dangerous than knives, and we all have those. And yes, I HAVE needed it.
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#62 of 165 Old 11-21-2008, 02:41 PM
 
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Yes. We have started to get some gang and drug stuff trickling into this area from the city. And we also have bears around, which are getting increasingly more displaced and distressed from the land development explosion around here. So there are certainly threats to our safety. And I have no qualms about shooting anyone or anything necessary to protect my family.

A compromise that many consider reasonable for having a gun loaded and ready but reasonably safe from kids is a fingerprint lock safe so that no one but you can open it.
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#63 of 165 Old 11-21-2008, 02:43 PM
 
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I've been struggling iwth this myself and have actually considered asking here. I hope this discussion stays civil. I am really valuing the input.

This is a tree on fire with love, but it's still scary since most people think love only looks like one thing instead of the whole world. *
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#64 of 165 Old 11-21-2008, 02:47 PM
 
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Originally Posted by MaterPrimaePuellae View Post
I mean this seriously, not snarkily-- would you prefer they shoot your kids? I know there are some religious belief systems (like Quakers) who do in fact feel this way; but I definitely do not.

I SO agree with libertymom. I also believe that the ultimate (and by ultimate, I mean last) defense against a bad government is an armed citizenry. Our family is one mandatory vaccination/mandatory public schooling/mandatory "government guardianship"-type law away from moving to the Ozarks. I mean that very seriously. When and if we get there, I think we'll want more than a home alarm system.

ETA, more children under 5 die by drowning in swimming pools than in gun accidents.
I agree wholeheartedly.
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#65 of 165 Old 11-21-2008, 02:49 PM
 
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Yes. I do not currently own a gun, but I would purchase one without hesitation if I felt the need.

Bethany, crunchy Christian mom to Destiny (11) Deanna (9), and Ethan (2)

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#66 of 165 Old 11-21-2008, 02:56 PM
 
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Originally Posted by artgoddess View Post
"No person should ever purchase a gun for protection if they are not fully prepared to kill a person"

I think if you are not 100% comfortable with the idea then it's not a good one for your family.
This, exactly.

I'm not someone who is at all comfortable with owning a gun; they scare me even when used recreationally. Really I don't even want to look at one.

However, if someone entered my home with the intent of harming my family, I would not hesitate to protect them using whatever means necessary.

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#67 of 165 Old 11-21-2008, 02:58 PM
 
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When I lived on an organic farm, before ds was born, we had a 22 rifle and a bb gun. They were mostly to ward off chicken killers (opossums, raccons, other dogs, and copper heads). We killed a couple of opossums after they killed some chickens and a copperhead.

Now i live in the city, and I would not have a gun. Yes we have a very high murder rate in my city (philadelphia) but I have no interest in having a gun in my house. I do have a dog and there are 6 adults and ds in the house.

My inlaws have guns in their house because they live rurally (they are in a gun safe, unloaded, bullets elsewhere etc) it doesn't bother me in the country.

It bothers me more in the city, because of the high gun violence.

Also I have to say I am not really afraid of home invasion. nor do I think that if my partner was home somehow I would be infintely safer and if he was gone, somehow I would need a weapon. That doesn't compute for me. If someone is watching me enough to know that I'm home alone (then they'd problem wait until the house is empty anyway) then I think having my gun lock in a safe, with a trigger lock, with my ammo in another safe, isn't going to do much for me.

However, if the issue is protecting livestock, I can get more behind that.
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#68 of 165 Old 11-21-2008, 02:59 PM
 
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Also if the issue is just protecting chickens, fire crackers work very well for that (as they sound like gun shots and scare animals away)
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#69 of 165 Old 11-21-2008, 03:01 PM
 
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yes...

DH is a police officer and I used to be and we are very comfortable with guns. My "mom" instinct is still stonger than my comfortableness with guns so I do check and double check and triple check that our guns are not accessable to our DD.

OP - I think in general it would be safest for you to have a good 'ole shot gun. It can take care of larger animals that would cause harm to you/and or your live stock, IT WILL TRULY take care of business if there was someone in your house attempting to hurt you, and it is not easy for a child to get a hold of- they are heavy and it is difficult for smaller hands to open and load the bullets.
Having a shot gun also gives you the option of using different ammo- bird shot- which is usually less lethal, would be my choice.

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#70 of 165 Old 11-21-2008, 03:07 PM
 
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I haven't seen this posted yet, so here ya go:

http://www.nrahq.org/safety/eddie/

Whether or not you own guns, I think it's incredibly important to teach your children what to do in case they come across a gun. This is a good program, even for those who are opposed to the NRA.

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#71 of 165 Old 11-21-2008, 03:22 PM
 
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Your child is WAY WAY WAY more likely to be killed by a swimming pool than a gun. I have guns, but my personal belief is that they should not be kept for personal defense. I second getting a baseball bat (a billy club is a great option too).

I'm not trying to start a fight or anything, but the person who said they keep their guns loaded (and its ok because they're out of the children's reach and the kids "know better") is being extremely irresponsible. That kind of thinking could end you up with a dead child (or neighbor's child).

+ = and .
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#72 of 165 Old 11-21-2008, 03:22 PM
 
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Originally Posted by the_lissa View Post
Yeah and do you think that citizens with guns can do anything re: the government? This isn't the 1700s any more.
This is perhaps OT, *but*--

Will it make a difference for one family to have a gun? Um, no, definitely not. Will it make a difference is 50% of Americans have one, are trained to use it properly, and are prepared to defend their families? Possibly.
What I think more likely, though, is that (if the government seriously oversteps its boundaries.... like, more than it already has) individual states would secede. It's not like it hasn't happened before. One of the purposes of a state militia (I know SC has one) is to protect the state from the federal gov't should the need arise. So... we would probably join the militia. My understanding is the members of the militia provide their own weapons (?). This is something I've only studied a bit.

Wow, this comes across as so crazily paranoid. I definitely hope none of this ever happens-- sadly, I suspect we're more likely to just lose our Constitutional freedoms one bit at a time until my great-grandchildren live very differently than we do now.

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#73 of 165 Old 11-21-2008, 03:46 PM
 
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I don't know the stats but it is pretty widely published that people are very likely to get killed with their own gun should violent crime occur in their own home. Unless one was very properly trained (I am talking about police or miltary type training) I would think buying a gun for self protection would be a bad idea.

My family and dad owned guns, my family would target shoot for sport as well as hunting. My family is (for the most part) miltary trained and comfortable with all sorts of firearms.

Our household guns were very easily accessible but I never, ever, ever would have considered touching it with my dad present. Unfortunately, I don't think kids now a days have a health level of respect for such things and that worries me greatly.

We currently own three guns; an inherited shotgun, another shot gun I won in a raffle and a hunting rifle. These are kept locked and there is no ammo in the house.

DH is fairly anti-gun in some ways but sees merit in teaching DS about guns.

We recently bought a property close to a shooting range. DH and I discussed getting a handgun for target shooting. I learned about guns and gun safety at my uncles' hips growing up and I think my son should learn the same way. It is also an activity I enjoyed. DH has expressed interest in this. If we do get a hand gun, we would both attend classes and keep it properly stored.

My feelings are influenced by where we live. Gun ownership is very common and I want DS to be very educated as he grows and visits other people's homes.

All that being said, I can understand the feelings of people who were not raised in similar situations. I had college friends who absolutely didn't understand hunting or gun ownership. (city dwellers ) They were totally freaked out about everything surrounding the issue and thought any person that owned a gun was a half step away from being a mass murderer.

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#74 of 165 Old 11-21-2008, 04:10 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by MaterPrimaePuellae View Post
This is perhaps OT, *but*--

Will it make a difference for one family to have a gun? Um, no, definitely not. Will it make a difference is 50% of Americans have one, are trained to use it properly, and are prepared to defend their families? Possibly.
What I think more likely, though, is that (if the government seriously oversteps its boundaries.... like, more than it already has) individual states would secede. It's not like it hasn't happened before. One of the purposes of a state militia (I know SC has one) is to protect the state from the federal gov't should the need arise. So... we would probably join the militia. My understanding is the members of the militia provide their own weapons (?). This is something I've only studied a bit.

Wow, this comes across as so crazily paranoid. I definitely hope none of this ever happens-- sadly, I suspect we're more likely to just lose our Constitutional freedoms one bit at a time until my great-grandchildren live very differently than we do now.
I can follow your reasoning here. In WV, there is a state militia that has always maintained a good level of coordination. I have no first hand knowledge, but it is rumored that our state militia would be armed and "ready to fight" in a matter of 4 hours. I hope they are never needed, but I can see a future in which the militias might be necessary.
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#75 of 165 Old 11-21-2008, 04:48 PM
 
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the government talk reminds me of Jericho. I was surprised by how many guns and ammo everyone owned. I know, tv and the whole small town thing.

I think I'll just count on my state militia to arm me then.

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#76 of 165 Old 11-21-2008, 04:49 PM
 
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Originally Posted by FullMetalMom View Post
Your child is WAY WAY WAY more likely to be killed by a swimming pool than a gun. I have guns, but my personal belief is that they should not be kept for personal defense. I second getting a baseball bat (a billy club is a great option too).

I'm not trying to start a fight or anything, but the person who said they keep their guns loaded (and its ok because they're out of the children's reach and the kids "know better") is being extremely irresponsible. That kind of thinking could end you up with a dead child (or neighbor's child).
I prefer my cast iron frying pan...

I agree about keeping the guns loaded. Kids don't have the understanding of cause and effect that adults do, and they climb.

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#77 of 165 Old 11-21-2008, 05:05 PM
 
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I wouldn't, but I am glad that some of my neighbors do. It's handy to have someone to call if you hit a dear and need it to be put down (I've never needed that but other neighbors have) and I'm sure there's other instances as well. But even if I didn't have someone to call if I needed to, I wouldn't own a gun.


OP: I'm a little confused.... are you tying to protect your chickens from animals or people? I've had lots of poultry through the years and a gun would have never been helpful that I can imagine. We have so many raccoons that I could not even come close to making a dent in their population. A good fence and coop is really what you need, in my opinion and experience
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#78 of 165 Old 11-21-2008, 05:17 PM
 
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http://www.anatoliandog.org/poultry.htm here's a great page for training dogs to be around chickens, works for any dog not just anatolian, I have pyranees mixes.
ETA I wouldn't try it with a lab or other retriever like someone else said, although it's probably possible to train those dogs to be around chickens it'll be a lot more work.

Thing is having dogs hasn't stopped the neighbors free range dogs from killing my animals, I've lost more chickens to other dogs then coyotes or anything else so for those instances I'm glad to have my guns. I'm in the country so there isn't really any animal control and the dogs that have come around weren't catchable, were usually a pit or rottie mix, and I wasn't going to wait for them to come back when my kids are outside playing (I'm not allways outside when my kids are) One of our neighbors even told us to make sure our daughter didnt get too close because their pit didn't like kids. They kept them in a radio fence and the dogs were often wearing out the batteries, so when I saw their dog out yet again it was shot. Wasn't too long after that their other pit got out and attacked our goat, that dog was also shot. Scaring them off doesn't work, there was one dog that dh shot a 12 gauge shotgun at from a distance we think a few of the pellets might have even hit it, it still came back and killed chickens. Another dog was shot with the deer rifle in the chest it managed to get away before I could get to it and it still came back!!! For the record I haven't shot every dog that's come around, if it has tags or I can figure out the owner I'll take it back to them assuming I can get it to come to me or if not then I'll let them know it's out and where it is.
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#79 of 165 Old 11-21-2008, 05:21 PM - Thread Starter
 
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OP: I'm a little confused.... are you tying to protect your chickens from animals or people? I've had lots of poultry through the years and a gun would have never been helpful that I can imagine. We have so many raccoons that I could not even come close to making a dent in their population. A good fence and coop is really what you need, in my opinion and experience
We would be trying to protect the chickens from animals. Possums, foxes, raccoons, and the neighbor's dogs are all very adept at burrowing under fences, so your ordinary fencing is not going to be working here.

We also will have to have a top on our chicken coop like a giant cage with nothing open because these animals can also climb and because of a large raptors population. We wanted a movable coop and chicken house so that the girls can get fresh grass to peck around on every day or so, so burying several feet of fencing is not realistic.
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#80 of 165 Old 11-21-2008, 05:24 PM
 
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Thanks to everyone who is replying on this thread. My hubby wants a gun for Christmas and I have been struggling with how I feel about it.

I have been very pleased to see how much thought people put into their responses. So thanks again.
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#81 of 165 Old 11-21-2008, 05:24 PM
 
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if the cage is small enough would a wire bottom work (although I realise the chickens would only be able to peck at the grass and wouldn't be able to scratch the ground)
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#82 of 165 Old 11-21-2008, 05:33 PM
 
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I would never have a gun in my home. I refused to marry my dh until he got rid of his. Having a gun-free home would be much more important to me than having chickens as pets.
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#83 of 165 Old 11-21-2008, 05:48 PM
 
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We would be trying to protect the chickens from animals. Possums, foxes, raccoons, and the neighbor's dogs are all very adept at burrowing under fences, so your ordinary fencing is not going to be working here.

We also will have to have a top on our chicken coop like a giant cage with nothing open because these animals can also climb and because of a large raptors population. We wanted a movable coop and chicken house so that the girls can get fresh grass to peck around on every day or so, so burying several feet of fencing is not realistic.
Oh yes, I know it's not that simple.

What I think of as a "good" fence is pretty extreme but I still think it is worth the effort, for me anyway, because of the peace of mind. My dream coop/ chicken yard has: a buried fence (to prevent digging under), a netting to cover the top, a central coop, four separate fenced areas to rotate through, and a very secure outdoor "patio" area that the chickens could access from the coop so I wouldn't have to have someone letting them in and out if I was gone for a weekend.

Whoa, I can see that seems extravagant but a friend of mine has just that set up and she adding the fencing gradually and her chickens always have green grass I'm personally not a fan of the mobile coop. I am in theory, but everyone I know who has one looses several chickens every year I'm just not sure what good a gun would do you for protecting chickens. If your area is similar to mine, you would have to keep watch all night, every night because there are just so many chicken-loving critters.


Also, would you warn the neighbors that they should start being more watchful of their dogs (keeping them in their own yards) because you will be protecting your chickens?
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#84 of 165 Old 11-21-2008, 06:16 PM
 
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Hopefully your neighbors will be better about it then mine. I've had at least two that told me to shoot their dogs if they came messing around my house.
Also most of the dog attacks were during the day, but I definetly agree with having a secure coup for night time, nobody wants to stay on watch all night.
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#85 of 165 Old 11-21-2008, 06:21 PM
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I grew up in homes with guns, mostly rifles and shotguns. We knew not to touch them and none of us ever did without my dad present.

My husband has a .45 handgun. It is locked up right now, so even if we needed it for home defense, it's pretty useless. I'm much happier with my big ol' hickory stick I keep by the side of my bed.

I would get a pellet gun if you are concerned about possums/raccoons getting into the chickens.
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#86 of 165 Old 11-21-2008, 06:35 PM
 
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Could not live with a gun in my house. Just couldn't the idea of it makes me shake with fear.

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#87 of 165 Old 11-21-2008, 08:24 PM
 
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(I haven't read most of the replies to this thread, so I am not responding to anyone in particular, just stating my position.)

DH and I own many guns. We are active in gun safety training, hunting, concealed carry, and general shooting sports. We own guns for self and home defense. We also believe in gun ownership as a political issue - but I am not going to discuss that here!

Our children will be raised around guns. I very much recommend the NRA's Eddie Eagle approach for any child, raised in a home with guns or not. If you do not own guns, please do not make the mistake of assuming you can shelter your kids from them by ignoring the topic. Teach them to do the following if they ever find a gun: STOP! Don't touch. Leave the area. Tell an adult. Though we are avid gun owners and do not believe guns are "bad," we will teach our children the same lesson.

We will also allow them access to guns with adult supervision - we want to demystify guns and ensure they are not a taboo thing the kids feel like they have to try to sneak a peek at. As they get older and demonstrate their grasp on responsible gun handling and safety rules, they will earn the privilege of using their own guns. (Again, with adult supervision.)

We believe guns are tools, and just like any other tool, there is a learning curve, skill set, and responsibility associated with it.

I see a lot of fear and misinformation about guns and gun owners, and I work hard to change peoples' perceptions. I have helped several people get over fear of firearms just by showing them how, mechanically, the weapons work. I have helped diffuse misconceptions about people who own guns just by being who I am and being willing to discuss the issue rationally. It's obviously a hot-button issue for both "sides," and that often results in a tragic divide where educational and conversational opportunities are lost.

I do not think everyone should own a gun. While I think we all have a right to, I don't think exercising that right should be considered unless you are aware of the responsibilities associated with what you're doing. This includes everything from ensuring safe storage and handling within your home, to undergoing proper training prior to carrying a weapon to ensure compliance with the laws, understanding of deadly force, weapon retention, etc., to proper care of your firearms to ensure their safe operation. It is a lot of work.

It is, however, also very rewarding and often a lot of fun. I am proud of the fact I am capable of defending myself, my family, my pets and my home. I am proud of the knowledge I have acquired and the work I have done to share that with others. I am proud of my ability to put food on my table (and as an omnivore, I do believe I should be willing to hunt if I am willing to consume meat). I enjoy the feeling of honing a skill and participating in activities that expose me to the great outdoors.

Yes, I am a gun owner, and proud of it.

Last but not least, I would like to extend an offer to anyone who has questions about guns - from the very basics to where you can find safety training to laws to what models I recommend - to please, please contact me. I will be more than happy to share what I know, help you find information, or point you at those who can be of greater assistance. Thanks!
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#88 of 165 Old 11-21-2008, 08:52 PM
 
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Absolutely. I've owned a gun before and I would do it again. When we lived in crackhead central, the knowledge that a.) I had that gun and b.) that I could get to it and use it kept me much calmer than when we didn't have it. As it was, I had already gotten in the habit of answering the door with a machete in hand.

Even now that I have a child, I'd own a gun all over again esp. since the bad elements are filtering into our neighborhood.
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#89 of 165 Old 11-21-2008, 09:19 PM
 
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First, I just want to say that though there is clearly some radical disagreement here, everyone thusfar has been very civil; I appreciate that very much.

Great post, Laurel! I will probably be taking you up on your offer for some gun info.

I also totally agree about the "willing to hunt if willing to eat meat." This is relatively new for me (so I have not participated in the actually hunting yet), but I have helped with butchering both deer and wild boar. The respect/appreciation I have for that meat in my freezer is SO different than what i "felt" (if I felt anything) back when I bought 10 lbs of Tyson whenever it was on sale.

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#90 of 165 Old 11-21-2008, 09:25 PM
 
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Originally Posted by MaterPrimaePuellae View Post
I SO agree with libertymom. I also believe that the ultimate (and by ultimate, I mean last) defense against a bad government is an armed citizenry. Our family is one mandatory vaccination/mandatory public schooling/mandatory "government guardianship"-type law away from moving to the Ozarks. I mean that very seriously. When and if we get there, I think we'll want more than a home alarm system.

ETA, more children under 5 die by drowning in swimming pools than in gun accidents.
This is why I own a gun.

Everyone speaks of home safety. I don't expect to ever be in a position to defend myself with a gun in my home. It could happen, but statistically is unlikely. Plus, we have an alarm system.

I own a gun because I believe in gun ownership. I think if the government takes away our right to bear arms, it means THEY are the ONLY ones with guns. Which means if they become corrupt, become a police state, citizens have NOTHING with which to defend themselves.

People say it can't happen in America ... look around, is my answer. Look at the laws that are being passed. Look at the military commissions act.

The constitution gives Americans the right to bear arms AGAINST an unethical government that is not serving the needs of the people.

This is why I have a gun.

Although, the gun and bullets are in separate safes, the safes are right next to one another. If I don't care about noise, I can load everything in under 2 minutes. I timed myself. Always be prepared, I say.

Re: I also learned it as don't buy a gun unless you're prepared to kill someone. By this, they mean, it's pointless to own a gun in defense if all you're going to do is stand there while the "opponent" takes your gun away.

I took target practice, and keep up with it, because I don't want to kill anyone. But, I will shoot to injure in such a way that they can't get off the ground. And, if there's more than one, I am prepared to shoot to kill. In the area of self defense - your body naturally goes into flight or fight response. If you can't flee ... you only have one option: fight.

I hope I NEVER have to use it. But, if there ever comes a time where the government becomes so corrupt (as in way more than it is now, lol) and takes away the rest of our freedoms ... I'd hope there would be a few citizens to stand, armed, with me against such a possibility.

First special delivery - April 2010 :
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