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#151 of 165 Old 11-26-2008, 01:31 PM
 
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Originally Posted by pumpkinhead View Post
Guns are tools yes, but what are they for? What is their purpose? To kill, to injure, to maim, to destroy. The purpose of knives is a bit more diverse.

I'm not anti-gun, but I can't deny what the purpose of a gun is.
Just this. And for the first person who says 'Well, and target practice', well - that's still destroying something.

And no, I will never, ever allow a gun to enter my home.

All this talk of home invasion, and what would you do... perhaps I live in a sheltered small town life, but that's never even crossed my mind. I can't imagine living with such fear or concerns or thoughts.

So glad I'm in Canada. And before this ends up like threads of the past - no we don't need the US to protect ourselves.

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#152 of 165 Old 11-26-2008, 01:51 PM
 
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Who was at fault here, the gun or your dad? Your father misused, horribly, a tool and that leaves only him to blame. If I'm chopping veggies and I lop off my finger, I certainly don't blame the knife.

Again, please do NOT leave guns where they are accessible to anyone, no matter how "well-hidden" or "out of reach" you may think they are. Invest in a gun safe and use it. PLEASE.
I don't care who's fault it was. It wouldn't have happened in the absence of a gun, bottom line.
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#153 of 165 Old 11-26-2008, 01:52 PM
 
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Do those of you with lots of guns (especially with loaded guns) tell parents of your children's friends about them?
We don't keep loaded guns in our house. Guns get unloaded before they come inside and get put away. In this area, I assume everyone has guns in their house. My kids go to a very select few homes and I feel comfortable with the safety measures they have taken. If someone asks, I'll tell them where the guns are, locked with trigger locks. Ammo is stored in a box in our storage room. It would take quite some time to get a gun out and loaded, not to mention getting past the trigger lock.
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#154 of 165 Old 11-26-2008, 02:43 PM
 
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We have guns in the house because DH grew up on a farm and shot vermin with them, and his dad would go deer hunting. They are in cases, locked with trigger locks, stored unloaded in the attic. DH keeps the ammunition completely separate from them on another floor of the house. If a burglar came in, they would be 100% useless.

Guns have ONE purpose: killing things. When our son is older, DH will take him to a local shooting club, go to gun safety classes, and supervise his learning. For now though, we keep them in a place where they aren't easily accessible.

If you don't feel totally comfortable with having a gun in the house, why not get a couple dogs and a sturdy chicken coop instead of a gun? The dogs can guard the chickens and the house, and dogs are the #1 deterrent for burglars.

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#155 of 165 Old 11-26-2008, 03:13 PM
 
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I absolutely would.

I don't have one now, but in the future I probably will again. At the moment don't trust the kids to stay away from one. I got rid of mine when my ds was starting to crawl. They haven't exercised good judgment with their cell phones in the past year, so I hardly think having a firearm in the house would be an intelligent choice on my part.

My ex-dh bought it for me when I was working nights, and in later years after we were divorced it gave me a feeling of security when I had a stalker. On one occasion I scared off a guy who was following me when I turned around with my hand on it inside my purse...I didn't have to say a word, or even show it to him, just the gesture and the way I was standing made my point and he spun on his heels and walked back the way he'd come. He had followed me for quite some time from store to store in the mall, (sometimes standing right behind me while I stood in line to pay for items) and when he followed me out to the parking lot, that was it, I wasn't going to wait until we got all the way to my car, or to a dark corner. : This was during the same time I was being stalked, and let's just say I had little patience for that sort of thing. In approximately 12 years of gun ownership that is the only time I can recall having it in my hand with the intention of possibly having to use it to defend myself (other than keeping it by the bed until I moved far far away from my stalker. And I had 2 chows)

I feel like where I live now, there is very little need for a person to carry a gun, but I'd like to have one on hand at home since I live in a sparsely populated area and you never know how long it might take for the police to arrive. We only recently got phone lines, so for a while there was the problem of not being able to even call 911 because our cells didn't have reception at our house.

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#156 of 165 Old 11-26-2008, 03:28 PM
 
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Nope. My husband owns one, and I'm not entirely comfortable with it even though his dad was a police officer, so he's well trained. I would never have one for myself. I am very against guns, mainly because I feel that if we did have an intruder they may use it against us. Also, I don't want it to be anywhere near where children can get a hold of it.

I second the dog thing, unless you are allergic or don't have time to take care of one. Dogs with loud barks (even if they aren't the biggest dog) will often frighten away intruders.

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#157 of 165 Old 11-26-2008, 06:40 PM
 
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Originally Posted by the_lissa View Post
Yeah and car owners are required to be licensed and insured. I think gun owners should be as well.
You have to be licensed and registered to own a gun. If you carry it as a concealed weapon, it requires additional licensing.

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I've looked at the actual raw numbers of gun injuries and deaths in the U.S. in an academic setting. It is chilling.
So is the amount of teenage drunk driving accidents. Actually, so is the number of car accidents in general. Far surpasses the amount of deaths by guns.


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Guns are tools yes, but what are they for? What is their purpose? To kill, to injure, to maim, to destroy. The purpose of knives is a bit more diverse.

I'm not anti-gun, but I can't deny what the purpose of a gun is.
Well, the purpose can also be to get food. :

My personal purpose is to support the constitutional right to bear arms. I think there will come a day when the government has taken away ALL our freedoms ... and the only recourse left will be to defend yourself against that which was supposed to protect you.

Re: target practice (I forgot who mentioned that this is destroying something) - I meant target practice with an inanimate object!!!! I don't go to the gun range to shoot at live things. In fact, most gun ranges have inanimate objects ONLY.

The dog thing - it's an interesting point. My dog is more dangerous than my gun when it comes to an intruder. I have a GSD who has been extensively trained by me. If I give the command, he'll go for the throat. He'll stop ... holding his mouth open over a person's throat. And then he'll wait. If the person struggles ... one word from me, and it will end very badly for said person's throat.

This is, of course, an extreme example. He can go for less fatal parts of the body.

But, my dog and I, also do awareness programs (in terms of rescues, buying pets, etc.) in schools. There, he's the most gentle dog ever as children come up to pet him.

He's also in SAR, and I'm hoping we'll be the second youngest dog ever to qualify. Point is, one day, he could find lost people.

My point is - the choice is up to YOU on how the tools in your life are to be used.

You can use them lazily and without responsibility. It only takes ONE bout of laziness for a tragedy. I repeat - no such thing as mistakes here. Only lax ownership. And this includes pet ownership as well, incidentally. Same parallels really. Or you can choose not to use some tools - which is cool. Unless we start campaigning to end our right to bear arms, of course, lol.

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#158 of 165 Old 11-26-2008, 07:27 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Sailor View Post
You have to be licensed and registered to own a gun. If you carry it as a concealed weapon, it requires additional licensing.



So is the amount of teenage drunk driving accidents. Actually, so is the number of car accidents in general. Far surpasses the amount of deaths by guns.




Well, the purpose can also be to get food. :

My personal purpose is to support the constitutional right to bear arms. I think there will come a day when the government has taken away ALL our freedoms ... and the only recourse left will be to defend yourself against that which was supposed to protect you.

Re: target practice (I forgot who mentioned that this is destroying something) - I meant target practice with an inanimate object!!!! I don't go to the gun range to shoot at live things. In fact, most gun ranges have inanimate objects ONLY.

The dog thing - it's an interesting point. My dog is more dangerous than my gun when it comes to an intruder. I have a GSD who has been extensively trained by me. If I give the command, he'll go for the throat. He'll stop ... holding his mouth open over a person's throat. And then he'll wait. If the person struggles ... one word from me, and it will end very badly for said person's throat.

This is, of course, an extreme example. He can go for less fatal parts of the body.

But, my dog and I, also do awareness programs (in terms of rescues, buying pets, etc.) in schools. There, he's the most gentle dog ever as children come up to pet him.

He's also in SAR, and I'm hoping we'll be the second youngest dog ever to qualify. Point is, one day, he could find lost people.

My point is - the choice is up to YOU on how the tools in your life are to be used.

You can use them lazily and without responsibility. It only takes ONE bout of laziness for a tragedy. I repeat - no such thing as mistakes here. Only lax ownership. And this includes pet ownership as well, incidentally. Same parallels really. Or you can choose not to use some tools - which is cool. Unless we start campaigning to end our right to bear arms, of course, lol.
What does licensing entail? I've never heard of it. Does it vary state to state?

I still think there should be insurance for the same reason we have car insurance.

The point about the gun accidents and deaths in the U.S. is that it is disproportionately high compared to most other developed countries. It is sickening.


Do you actually think that you could protect yourself or your family from the government of the United States with a gun? Seriously? This is 1776. If the government comes to the point of taking away all your freedoms, do you think you can overcome that with a gun? I don't understand that paranoia.

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#159 of 165 Old 11-26-2008, 07:30 PM
 
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Well, the purpose can also be to get food. :
I'm curious as to how you'd do that without killing something.

Even of you're shooting apples off a tree, you're still destroying something. I wasn't solely referring to living things. The purpose of a gun is to cause damage. This is not exclusive to things that are alive.

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#160 of 165 Old 11-26-2008, 07:51 PM
 
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The dog thing - it's an interesting point. My dog is more dangerous than my gun when it comes to an intruder. I have a GSD who has been extensively trained by me. If I give the command, he'll go for the throat. He'll stop ... holding his mouth open over a person's throat. And then he'll wait. If the person struggles ... one word from me, and it will end very badly for said person's throat.

I know someone who couldn't use her dog as protection from her violent ex, because it had been 'their' dog...so the gun sort of became a necessity in her eyes.

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#161 of 165 Old 11-26-2008, 08:28 PM
 
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I know someone who couldn't use her dog as protection from her violent ex, because it had been 'their' dog...so the gun sort of became a necessity in her eyes.

Why?

We used to have 2 border collies. When my son was a newborn, I locked myself out of my parent's house with him. I was really upset and agitated and the dogs milled around me whining, upset. When my father finally showed up with the keys to let me in the dogs wouldn't let him near me. This man raised these dogs from pups, but it didn't matter to them. In my agitated and vulnerable state their only thought was to protect me and my baby. If he'd grabbed for me or had tried to harm me in any way (not that he would havem but if he had) I know they would have attacked him. Dogs are smarter than guns.

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#162 of 165 Old 11-26-2008, 08:35 PM
 
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Why?

We used to have 2 border collies. When my son was a newborn, I locked myself out of my parent's house with him. I was really upset and agitated and the dogs milled around me whining, upset. When my father finally showed up with the keys to let me in the dogs wouldn't let him near me. This man raised these dogs from pups, but it didn't matter to them. In my agitated and vulnerable state their only thought was to protect me and my baby. If he'd grabbed for me or had tried to harm me in any way (not that he would havem but if he had) I know they would have attacked him. Dogs are smarter than guns.
This one wasn't, either that or he was afraid of him. He used to beat the cr@p out of her while the dog was there. And this was a pitt.

My female chow, otoh, knocked my stalker right to the ground once, but she was so unreliable/unstable I still felt safer with my gun.

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#163 of 165 Old 11-26-2008, 11:31 PM
 
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What does licensing entail? I've never heard of it. Does it vary state to state?
I think it does vary from state to state.

To cary a concealed weapon (CCW), some states require a training course. You learn to shoot, clean, arm, disarm, and various common sense rules for gun ownership. And you have to pass their qualifications, which means you need to actually hit the target, as opposed to firing wild shots every where.

I believe Vermont and Alaska are the only states who let just anyone carry a concealed weapon - no qualifications necessary.

You also have to do a background check to even own a gun - at least in the state where I got mine this was true. But, I think it must be true across the board as felons can't own guns. And how would they know you're a felon without a background check?

And you have to apply for a permit to own a gun (I think this is where they do the background check).

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Do you actually think that you could protect yourself or your family from the government of the United States with a gun? Seriously? This is 1776. If the government comes to the point of taking away all your freedoms, do you think you can overcome that with a gun? I don't understand that paranoia.
No, of course not. But, I could shoot enough of them to escape out of my home, and out of the country.

Conversely, I'd go down fighting - which is better (in my mind) than going down by hiding in the closet.

A better scenario would be for me to get together with other gun owners - then, we'd stand a chance against an unconstitutional government. Hence why a lot of people who are members of the NRA feel strongly about gun ownership. When the government ends our freedoms ... we'll all get together.

It's not paranoid - it's smart thinking. If you don't keep the government accountable, and working for YOU - the government becomes someone who passes the military commissions act, or PATRIOT.

It's also the principle of the point - we have the right to bear arms against a corrupt government. This is given to us by the constitution. When the government is the only one with guns you have 2 things happen: good people have no guns, bad guys have lots of guns (black market, much like the drug situation now), and the government can do whatever they want with their guns. And that doesn't necessarily mean protecting its citizens.

I'm cool with people not wanting to own guns. It's not for everyone. I just don't want to see my freedom to do so disappear.

Re: destruction (I forgot the poster who mentioned this) ... sorry, I thought you meant killing humans. I don't see the difference between buying a piece of steak at the supermarket and going out and using your own "tool" to get the food. Or picking an apple versus shooting an apple (applesauce anyone? lol).

Which is why I didn't connect your destruction idea. As when I think of destruction .. I think of killing another person. Whereas using your gun as tool for food seems normal/natural to me. And pretty much the equivalent of eating meat from the supermarket. It's just that someone else has done the "dirty job" for you there.

Sorry about the misunderstanding.

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#164 of 165 Old 11-27-2008, 12:20 AM
 
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Nope, I'd never ever ever own a gun. I'm uncomfortable around them, and don't want to be around them. At all.

I don't feel I need a gun to keep my family safe...we live in a safe community. And I don't feel I need a gun to keep my government in line, either.

OP - Hope you find a good solution to keep your chickens safe, whether it be with a gun or not!

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#165 of 165 Old 11-27-2008, 01:19 PM
 
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Originally Posted by pumpkinhead View Post
I'm curious as to how you'd do that without killing something.

Even of you're shooting apples off a tree, you're still destroying something. I wasn't solely referring to living things. The purpose of a gun is to cause damage. This is not exclusive to things that are alive.
If you're going to define "damage" that broadly, then everything you can do with a knifes qualifies as well.
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