Preparing to be around a Dingo/pitbull - Page 3 - Mothering Forums

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Old 12-03-2008, 07:33 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Catubodua View Post
so it's fine with you when your child breaks the rule about running out into the road? getting into the car with a stranger? touching the hot stove? i mean, if you can't get a child to follow rules 100% of the time, it must be ok for them to do any of those, right?



?
This is not meant to be snarky, or hurtful, I promise. But I really think part of the reason why you are not seeing eye to eye with so many of us is beacuase you don't yet have a 2.5 year old. It is not "okay" for a child to do any of the things you listed. But a street does not run up to a child. I am really surprised that you can't see the difference.
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Old 12-03-2008, 07:35 PM
 
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again, i believe you haven't bothered to read my post on what my feelings are on how the dog owner should handle this. i don't believe that owner or dog have no responsiblity.

i do believe that OP knows that this is a dangerous situation and has 100% of the responsibility for the decision if she goes and if child goes with her. she's being told by owner that he's not going to be responsible and he won't contain the dog - if she still choses to go, knowing what she does, and something goes wrong, how on earth do we blame anyone but her?
I've read the entire thread. I have stated severeal times the op should not go, but NOT because her 2.5 year old can't follow rules, but because her brother is being inconsiderate and dangerous. That's where we can't agree.
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Old 12-03-2008, 08:03 PM
 
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I've read the entire thread. I have stated severeal times the op should not go, but NOT because her 2.5 year old can't follow rules, but because her brother is being inconsiderate and dangerous. That's where we can't agree.
I'm not actually sure we don't agree on this point. All I'm saying is - if she still choses to go, knowing what she does, how do we blame the brother for any incidents?

as for the other thing, i don't believe you were trying to get a dig at me. i'm equally surprised that you can't see my point of view - a dangerous situation is a dangerous situation is a dangerous situation is a dangerous situation. as a parent, you are either being vigilant about the dangerous situation or you're not. i don't see how dividing them up into different categories makes one dangerous situation more acceptable than the other.

mom to Andrew   born Feb 6th, already a mom to child with fur; and still missing and still wondering about the lost possibilities Mar 17, 2009
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Old 12-03-2008, 08:10 PM
 
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so it's fine with you when your child breaks the rule about running out into the road? getting into the car with a stranger? touching the hot stove? i mean, if you can't get a child to follow rules 100% of the time, it must be ok for them to do any of those, right?
These examples aren't even remotely similar to the dog....

The dog will be there, in the open, tempting the child by his very nature of being a dog - something living, cuddly, breathing, and perhaps to be played with. Secondly, the dog has no impulse control either, and could react to ANYTHING that child could do without a moment's notice.

If you want to compare the dog to these things, then you'd have to say that the stranger in the car was parked in the road, in the same spot all day, tempting, tempting and tempting the child the whole time kiddo was outside, and could at any time hop out of his car and just nab the child. What mother in her right mind, seeing that stranger, would even ALLOW her child outside?

Or an oven, following a child around a home, looking ever so interesting and fun to touch and play with, which could at any moment just open up its door and swallow the child. And let me add here too that yeah, touching a hot stove is not a good idea, but that stove isn't going to force its heat on a child if the child walks too near it, or trips into it, or runs and screams around it. The oven just sits there. The dog may not.

It's not the same situation at all. The dog is ALIVE and can act and react on his own instinct - he's not just going to be sitting there like a lump.
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Old 12-03-2008, 08:13 PM
 
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Catubodua - I do see your point. THe reality of the situation is that the dog's owner is planning on doing nothing. I find this reprehensible - that he can't even meet them in the middle - but that is the situation. So, the Mom either has to decline the invite or be extra super vigilant.
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Old 12-03-2008, 08:17 PM
 
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[QUOTE=Catubodua;12728348]I'm not actually sure we don't agree on this point. All I'm saying is - if she still choses to go, knowing what she does, how do we blame the brother for any incidents?

QUOTE]

if the brother is going to allow a child around the dog, and the dog attacks the child, then he is responsible, legally if not morally. if his dog is not safe to be around kids, he shouldn't allow kids in his home.
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Old 12-03-2008, 08:19 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Catubodua View Post
as for the other thing, i don't believe you were trying to get a dig at me. i'm equally surprised that you can't see my point of view - a dangerous situation is a dangerous situation is a dangerous situation is a dangerous situation. as a parent, you are either being vigilant about the dangerous situation or you're not. i don't see how dividing them up into different categories makes one dangerous situation more acceptable than the other.

Well, lets say I tell my child to never talk to strangers, and I never never leave my child alone, but a stranger breaks into my home (or breaks into my sisters home while we are visiting) and abducts my child, is that my responsibity? A living thing with free will (the dog) is different than an inanimate object.
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Old 12-03-2008, 08:19 PM
 
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oh, i'm so glad someone finally see the point i've been trying to make! quite honestly, it's exhausting trying to make these points with mommies.

mom to Andrew   born Feb 6th, already a mom to child with fur; and still missing and still wondering about the lost possibilities Mar 17, 2009
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Old 12-03-2008, 08:43 PM
 
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The dog owner in the OP is being careless. Why would he allow his dog to be put into the way of harm (and a rambunctious 2.5-yr old is quite able to inflict harm on a dog), and not be willing to protect this treasured pet ?

Why invite a family with a young child over if he isn't willing to protect his pet ?

It baffles me - both as a parent (my kids are 2, 4, and 6 yrs old), and as a dog owner.

Canadian mom to Boo (Aug '02), Bug (Aug '04) and Bear (Dec '06).
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Old 12-03-2008, 10:40 PM
 
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These examples aren't even remotely similar to the dog....

The dog will be there, in the open, tempting the child by his very nature of being a dog - something living, cuddly, breathing, and perhaps to be played with. Secondly, the dog has no impulse control either, and could react to ANYTHING that child could do without a moment's notice.

If you want to compare the dog to these things, then you'd have to say that the stranger in the car was parked in the road, in the same spot all day, tempting, tempting and tempting the child the whole time kiddo was outside, and could at any time hop out of his car and just nab the child. What mother in her right mind, seeing that stranger, would even ALLOW her child outside?

Or an oven, following a child around a home, looking ever so interesting and fun to touch and play with, which could at any moment just open up its door and swallow the child. And let me add here too that yeah, touching a hot stove is not a good idea, but that stove isn't going to force its heat on a child if the child walks too near it, or trips into it, or runs and screams around it. The oven just sits there. The dog may not.

It's not the same situation at all. The dog is ALIVE and can act and react on his own instinct - he's not just going to be sitting there like a lump.
Exactly.
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Old 12-03-2008, 11:11 PM
 
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One year ago this week my 3 year old was bitten in the face by my brothers dog. We rushed him to Boston Children's where he was put under for plastic surgery. A year later there are faint, faint scars but the situation was traumatic for all parties. My son, by far has done the best. It has been a long year of healing relationships and everyone involved (my mother, brother, my dh and myself) was hurt in some way. It was a horrible experience.

We were living with my parents for a year to save and a few months before we moved out my brother moved home with his dog. We were warned by a neighbor that it was a "nervous" dog and I did all the research. My brother refused to crate him and upon research we found it was not recommended for the breed. We did put up gates but after time everyone grew "lax". My brother was never home and we always were. It happened at dinnertime and we were home making dinner and listening to Christmas carols. My son was sitting under the table with the dog quietly and in one second it happened. He told us later he tried to "hug" him.

My brother thinks it was our fault for not keeping them separate. My husband thinks it was my brother's fault for being an irresponsible pet owner who was never home. The dog had nipped people on many occasions and we knew he was "nervous".

The dog still lives at my mothers and this was very hard for us to reconcile. We felt like everyone "chose" the dog. When we are there to visit the dog is put in the basement and sometimes they put the muzzle on and we sit right with my son so he can pet him. Strangely enough my son is not afraid of the dog.

My advice is to keep the child and dog separate no matter what. You think you are being vigilant but all it takes is you looking up for a second. The child can pull hair or lean on the dog and be bit with you right there. It is *SO* not worth it.



Good luck.
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Old 12-03-2008, 11:24 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Catubodua View Post
oh, i'm so glad someone finally see the point i've been trying to make! quite honestly, it's exhausting trying to make these points with mommies.
It's coz you are not listening to people who are posting information that is outside your experience, IMO. You simply cannot be on guard the whole time, its impossible. And no, 2.5 year olds cannot be trusted to obey rules consistently. I would not go visit my brother if his front door opened directly onto a busy street and he refused to keep it closed. Same thing with a dingo cross that has already snapped at the child. That's dangerous.
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Old 12-04-2008, 12:05 AM
 
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It's coz you are not listening to people who are posting information that is outside your experience, IMO. You simply cannot be on guard the whole time, its impossible. And no, 2.5 year olds cannot be trusted to obey rules consistently. I would not go visit my brother if his front door opened directly onto a busy street and he refused to keep it closed. Same thing with a dingo cross that has already snapped at the child. That's dangerous.
ITA. Very well said, like so many PP's.

Like I said before as well...even if you are on top of this and follow the "rules"...it can still happen! Even if the child is not doing anything...even if you are not doing anything to provoke a dog...it can still happen. Even if you are both there and following your child and you are following these "rules". It can still happen! And then we go blame the mother?! Harsh. And the other analogies compared to a dog...well I'm not even going to comment on that. Pointless.


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One year ago this week my 3 year old was bitten in the face by my brothers dog. We rushed him to Boston Children's where he was put under for plastic surgery. A year later there are faint, faint scars but the situation was traumatic for all parties. My son, by far has done the best. It has been a long year of healing relationships and everyone involved (my mother, brother, my dh and myself) was hurt in some way. It was a horrible experience.

We were living with my parents for a year to save and a few months before we moved out my brother moved home with his dog. We were warned by a neighbor that it was a "nervous" dog and I did all the research. My brother refused to crate him and upon research we found it was not recommended for the breed. We did put up gates but after time everyone grew "lax". My brother was never home and we always were. It happened at dinnertime and we were home making dinner and listening to Christmas carols. My son was sitting under the table with the dog quietly and in one second it happened. He told us later he tried to "hug" him.

My brother thinks it was our fault for not keeping them separate. My husband thinks it was my brother's fault for being an irresponsible pet owner who was never home. The dog had nipped people on many occasions and we knew he was "nervous".

The dog still lives at my mothers and this was very hard for us to reconcile. We felt like everyone "chose" the dog. When we are there to visit the dog is put in the basement and sometimes they put the muzzle on and we sit right with my son so he can pet him. Strangely enough my son is not afraid of the dog.

My advice is to keep the child and dog separate no matter what. You think you are being vigilant but all it takes is you looking up for a second. The child can pull hair or lean on the dog and be bit with you right there. It is *SO* not worth it.



Good luck.
I am so sorry your ds and you and your family went through that.
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Old 12-04-2008, 04:21 AM
 
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One year ago this week my 3 year old was bitten in the face by my brothers dog. We rushed him to Boston Children's where he was put under for plastic surgery. A year later there are faint, faint scars but the situation was traumatic for all parties. My son, by far has done the best. It has been a long year of healing relationships and everyone involved (my mother, brother, my dh and myself) was hurt in some way. It was a horrible experience.

We were living with my parents for a year to save and a few months before we moved out my brother moved home with his dog. We were warned by a neighbor that it was a "nervous" dog and I did all the research. My brother refused to crate him and upon research we found it was not recommended for the breed. We did put up gates but after time everyone grew "lax". My brother was never home and we always were. It happened at dinnertime and we were home making dinner and listening to Christmas carols. My son was sitting under the table with the dog quietly and in one second it happened. He told us later he tried to "hug" him.

My brother thinks it was our fault for not keeping them separate. My husband thinks it was my brother's fault for being an irresponsible pet owner who was never home. The dog had nipped people on many occasions and we knew he was "nervous".

The dog still lives at my mothers and this was very hard for us to reconcile. We felt like everyone "chose" the dog. When we are there to visit the dog is put in the basement and sometimes they put the muzzle on and we sit right with my son so he can pet him. Strangely enough my son is not afraid of the dog.

My advice is to keep the child and dog separate no matter what. You think you are being vigilant but all it takes is you looking up for a second. The child can pull hair or lean on the dog and be bit with you right there. It is *SO* not worth it.



Good luck.

I'm so very sorry you went through that and that it feels like your family chose the dog over your son. That must feel horrible.


To the OP, I would not go if my brother wouldn't crate or otherwise contain his dog. My grandmother leashes her very docile golden retriever and golden doodle when we visit and sometimes gates them in the kitchen. These dogs have been great with 8 grandkids but you can never, ever be too careful when there are babies/toddlers/preschoolers involved. Not only could something happen in an INSTANT but when a child is SO small, that injury could be devastatingly debilitating or fatal fairly easily.
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Old 12-04-2008, 11:19 AM
 
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One year ago this week my 3 year old was bitten in the face by my brothers dog. We rushed him to Boston Children's where he was put under for plastic surgery. A year later there are faint, faint scars but the situation was traumatic for all parties. My son, by far has done the best. It has been a long year of healing relationships and everyone involved (my mother, brother, my dh and myself) was hurt in some way. It was a horrible experience.

We were living with my parents for a year to save and a few months before we moved out my brother moved home with his dog. We were warned by a neighbor that it was a "nervous" dog and I did all the research. My brother refused to crate him and upon research we found it was not recommended for the breed. We did put up gates but after time everyone grew "lax". My brother was never home and we always were. It happened at dinnertime and we were home making dinner and listening to Christmas carols. My son was sitting under the table with the dog quietly and in one second it happened. He told us later he tried to "hug" him.

My brother thinks it was our fault for not keeping them separate. My husband thinks it was my brother's fault for being an irresponsible pet owner who was never home. The dog had nipped people on many occasions and we knew he was "nervous".

The dog still lives at my mothers and this was very hard for us to reconcile. We felt like everyone "chose" the dog. When we are there to visit the dog is put in the basement and sometimes they put the muzzle on and we sit right with my son so he can pet him. Strangely enough my son is not afraid of the dog.

My advice is to keep the child and dog separate no matter what. You think you are being vigilant but all it takes is you looking up for a second. The child can pull hair or lean on the dog and be bit with you right there. It is *SO* not worth it.



Good luck.
I'm so sorry for what happened to your son (and your entire family). Thank you for sharing this, though.
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Old 12-04-2008, 11:19 AM
 
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It's coz you are not listening to people who are posting information that is outside your experience, IMO. You simply cannot be on guard the whole time, its impossible. And no, 2.5 year olds cannot be trusted to obey rules consistently. I would not go visit my brother if his front door opened directly onto a busy street and he refused to keep it closed. Same thing with a dingo cross that has already snapped at the child. That's dangerous.
exactly.
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Old 12-04-2008, 11:21 AM
 
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if the brother is going to allow a child around the dog, and the dog attacks the child, then he is responsible, legally if not morally. if his dog is not safe to be around kids, he shouldn't allow kids in his home.
just quoting myself here, because I think it's an important point to make - the brother is the one who would be at fault for allowing his dog to be around a child. the brother shouldn't have young houseguests.
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Old 12-04-2008, 01:00 PM
 
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i disagree. a 2.5 year old can absolutely follow simple rules. the simplest rule for the child being "leave the dog alone" can be understood by a child that age.
Ummm... how many 2.5 year olds have you been around? Because I have a 5 year old who still can't follow simple directions a lot of times. He certaintly couldn't at 2.5. (He does have autism though so not a typical child). HOWEVER, I also work at a daycare. I've been doing childcare for 6+ years. No 2.5 year old that I've known has been able to follow a simple rule with 100% accuracy.

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One year ago this week my 3 year old was bitten in the face by my brothers dog.
I'm so sorry your family went through this. I'm glad everyone is healing (physically and emotionally).

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My advice is to keep the child and dog separate no matter what. You think you are being vigilant but all it takes is you looking up for a second. The child can pull hair or lean on the dog and be bit with you right there. It is *SO* not worth it.
I agree. My ds was bit on the face (not bad, thank God) by my mom's ex-husbands dog. The guy was living with mom, I was their nanny to their youngest kids so spent more time there than anyone. I told the guy I was NOT comfortable with this dog (who he bought as a puppy- chocolate lab- and never had time to train because he was never home) and did NOT want it on the same floor of the house as I and the kids were. He refused to put the dog downstairs so most days I would when the puppy (now a big puppy) would get too out of control. The dog nipped at ME multiple times. One day ds was sitting right next to me (literally could reach out and grab him). Puppy was right next to us. DS moved suddenly (like all young kids do) and the dog jumped and nipped. Right under ds's eye. Another 1/2 inch and ds would have been at risk of losing that eye. I refused to come back to the house unless the dog was on a different floor or outside. The guy refused to give the dog to someone who could care for him. A few weeks later the dog nipped at mom and her ex-husbands young daughter. Mom insisted the dog get put down (). A few months later the guy bought another puppy

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Old 12-04-2008, 03:01 PM
 
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I don't have time to read every response but here's my .02. The brother needs to give a bit on this one. Keep the dog away from the child. Yes, a 2.5 year old ( I'm pregnant with #4 so I do have some experience here) can understand [I]somewhat[I] to stay away from the dog but accidents do happen. Case in point: my in-laws have 'custody' of my husband's 14 year old dog (long story, MIL fell in love and dog-napped her 3 years ago, fenced in yard, etc, etc). She has never liked small children nor been around them much and we know that. We watched her like a hawk around our 14 month old over Thanksgiving who naturally, wanted to touch this big fuzzy creature. The first warning growl and Mazzy was put out in her "condo" for a bit. Next time she came back in, we made sure Joseph didn't touch her but as he was walking across the room and was near her, he tripped and fell on her. She barked and nipped him. He had a scratch across his forehead, a small puncture wound below his eye and a nick/scratch on his eyelid. We were incredibly lucky. It has been decided that we can't expect Mazzy to tolerate Joseph, it's not her nature nor can we expect Joseph to understand fully so they will not be in the same room together again. Odds are, Mazzy doesn't have that much longer to live and we are not risking our child's safety. Period. End of story. Everyone is in complete agreement. So, even with constant hovering and intervention, some accidents you can't prevent and the life and safety and well-being of your child outweighs the dog's ANY DAY OF THE WEEK. Keep it outside or in another part of the house or, if the owner is that stubborn, don't go. I had a dog that was 7 years old when my first child was born and yes, he was my baby and I loved him but he was still a dog. Not a child.

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Old 12-04-2008, 05:45 PM
 
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I have read some of the replies but not all but I would like to respond.

We have a dog who we adopted before DS was born. We suspect that the dog had been abused by the previous owners so we were nervous about our son and dog interacting. As of today they get along very well... but that has been 3 years worth of work and vigilence. That being said I think it was one of the very first posts where some one listed "rules" for interaction which I thought were great. What I would add that if your brother does not want to crate the dog, he should make sure that there is a spot in the house where the dog can go where no one can bug him (adults and children). Sort of a safety zone for the dog.

I would also like to add that the fact that the dog gave a warning snap is good and bad. Good because the dog is following the usual doggy behaviours in the warning system. It was clearly saying "I'm getting mad, leave me alone". Bad because the dog had already passed the warning growl stage. The next/last stage is the nip/bite. I love dogs, I think they can be a wonderful addition to the family but you can never forget that they are an animal and will react as such.

If it were a friend's house then I would recommend not going but because its your family it sounds like you want to try to make it work. I would recommend that when you do visit, you look at it as a "teaching my toddler how to act around dogs" time as opposed to family time. It will take vigilance and hard work but it will teach your child to be "safer" around animals. No one can ever be safe because ultimately you never know how an animal is going to react.
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Old 12-04-2008, 06:58 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Uh...hardly the case that the dog thinks it's above the child (at least not in every case, we have no indicators of this behavior from the dog). In fact, this is a situation where the dog perceives the child as being pushy by not backing out of the dog's space.

I have a husky\wolf hybrid. He's never been nasty with my kids, my kids are rough with him, not even a warning from him towards them. That dingo stole my baby is a generalization and stereotype. It's not the breed, all dogs have this behavior and instinct.

I agree with all of Catubodua's recommendations. It's about how we act around the dog (including our children) and not the other way around. Why would any one isolate the dog within it's own territory? This is punishing the dog for a perceived possible outcome that probably wouldn't happen. What exactly led up to the warning toward the child? We weren't given that information in full details. A lap dog can be as vicious an attacker as a hybrid or larger breed of dog. It's not the breed at all. The two individuals that would suffer most are the victim and the dog - all for what comes naturally to a dog as instinct. I don't think it's very fair to label the dog a problem dog for what comes naturally.

http://flyingdogpress.com/sayhi.html

It's a good read and well worth it to understanding why what happened at thansgiving did happen and why it may happen.

I agree that it is not fair to label the dog for acting naturally.

What led up to the snap, that did not touch, is my son following it aroung and trying to pet it near the tail. It was Thanksgiving in a crowded room. We left shortly after.

We are not staying at DB's house. I think a muzzle is a good idea, and trying to convince him to keep the dog in the bedroom while we are there.

I will also send this thread to him to give him insight to more moms, letting him know I am not alone.

I would like to say more, but am so busy.

Thanks for all the input.
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Old 12-05-2008, 04:10 PM
 
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Originally Posted by vbactivist View Post
Well, lets say I tell my child to never talk to strangers, and I never never leave my child alone, but a stranger breaks into my home (or breaks into my sisters home while we are visiting) and abducts my child, is that my responsibity? A living thing with free will (the dog) is different than an inanimate object.
The difference is choice – you aren’t choosing to let the stranger break into your home or your sister’s home. The OP is making a choice.

The points I was trying to make with the examples of the hot stove, running into traffic, etc, is they are all dangerous situations – and I would bet a lot of money that all of you are hyper vigilant about keeping your children out of those situations with no exceptions. So why aren’t you willing to apply the same thought process to this dangerous situation? I understand that the oven can’t move toward a child and a dog can but in the OP the dog wasn’t moving toward the child, it was trying to avoid him.


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It's coz you are not listening to people who are posting information that is outside your experience, IMO. You simply cannot be on guard the whole time, its impossible. And no, 2.5 year olds cannot be trusted to obey rules consistently. I would not go visit my brother if his front door opened directly onto a busy street and he refused to keep it closed. Same thing with a dingo cross that has already snapped at the child. That's dangerous.

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Originally Posted by StephandOwen View Post
Ummm... how many 2.5 year olds have you been around? Because I have a 5 year old who still can't follow simple directions a lot of times. He certaintly couldn't at 2.5. (He does have autism though so not a typical child). HOWEVER, I also work at a daycare. I've been doing childcare for 6+ years. No 2.5 year old that I've known has been able to follow a simple rule with 100% accuracy.
Both of you are making huge assumptions about me, my family life and my experiences with children simply because I haven’t had a child of my own. If the sole judge of whether someone can respond to these sorts of threads is that they personally have to have given birth, then feel free to ignore me.



For the OP – I hope you and your brother can come to an arrangement that works well for all and I hope showing him this thread helps clarify things for him.

mom to Andrew   born Feb 6th, already a mom to child with fur; and still missing and still wondering about the lost possibilities Mar 17, 2009
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Old 12-05-2008, 06:02 PM
 
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I think what Catubodua is trying to say is the facts are this:
1. The dog snapped at the child
2. The brother is UNWILLING to restrain the dog
So if she IS going to visit the brother her ONLY choice in the matter is to WATCH THE CHILD LIKE A HAWK. Putting the dog away is NOT an option in this scenario (because the brother already stated it is not an option.) Some have SUGGESTED he do that (which I am all for) BUT he DOES NOT do that, the only option she has should she choose to go visit, is to WATCH the child because she KNOWS the dog has snapped once, so it is partly her responsibility as a mother to watch her child at all times.

Yes, I do hope the owner meets her in the middle and will restrain the dog away from the child, but he has already said no, these are the facts and that is her choice. That is what Catubodua is trying to say, I believe.
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Old 12-05-2008, 06:57 PM
 
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Originally Posted by mytwogirls View Post
I think what Catubodua is trying to say is the facts are this:
1. The dog snapped at the child
2. The brother is UNWILLING to restrain the dog
So if she IS going to visit the brother her ONLY choice in the matter is to WATCH THE CHILD LIKE A HAWK. Putting the dog away is NOT an option in this scenario (because the brother already stated it is not an option.) Some have SUGGESTED he do that (which I am all for) BUT he DOES NOT do that, the only option she has should she choose to go visit, is to WATCH the child because she KNOWS the dog has snapped once, so it is partly her responsibility as a mother to watch her child at all times.

Yes, I do hope the owner meets her in the middle and will restrain the dog away from the child, but he has already said no, these are the facts and that is her choice. That is what Catubodua is trying to say, I believe.
Right. I believe what the other posters are trying to say is that, in their opinion, that even with watching the child (and dog) like a hawk it is not safe enough unless he is willing to compromise.
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Old 12-05-2008, 07:01 PM
 
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Right. I believe what the other posters are trying to say is that, in their opinion, that even with watching the child (and dog) like a hawk it is not safe enough unless he is willing to compromise.
Yep, but what Catubodua is saying IF the mom DOES choose go anyway, that is her ONLY option because the owner will not put the dog away. (Catubodua I hope I am getting this right.....)
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Old 12-05-2008, 07:31 PM
 
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Originally Posted by mytwogirls View Post
Yep, but what Catubodua is saying IF the mom DOES choose go anyway, that is her ONLY option because the owner will not put the dog away. (Catubodua I hope I am getting this right.....)
ita- that would be the only option.
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Old 12-05-2008, 08:08 PM
 
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Originally Posted by mytwogirls View Post
I think what Catubodua is trying to say is the facts are this:
1. The dog snapped at the child
2. The brother is UNWILLING to restrain the dog
So if she IS going to visit the brother her ONLY choice in the matter is to WATCH THE CHILD LIKE A HAWK. Putting the dog away is NOT an option in this scenario (because the brother already stated it is not an option.) Some have SUGGESTED he do that (which I am all for) BUT he DOES NOT do that, the only option she has should she choose to go visit, is to WATCH the child because she KNOWS the dog has snapped once, so it is partly her responsibility as a mother to watch her child at all times.

Yes, I do hope the owner meets her in the middle and will restrain the dog away from the child, but he has already said no, these are the facts and that is her choice. That is what Catubodua is trying to say, I believe.
the problem is that catuba is implying that mothers should be able to firce 2yo to follow rules without fail. she does not see how unrealistic that is. and if something were to happen between the dog and the child, catuba would place most, if not all, the blame on the child and its mother, whereas, I and other posters, believe the dog owner would be just as much, if not more, at fault.
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Old 12-05-2008, 08:11 PM
 
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Yep. It's the ideas that 2.5 year olds can consistently follow rules, and that it is a doable thing to spend 24/7 monitoring the child and dog together.
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Old 12-05-2008, 08:15 PM
 
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I think I just wouldn't go....It is tiring enough following the toddlers around to keep them safe, but to worry about the whereabouts of the dog as well and not be able to participate in a conversation or socialize at all would take all the fun out of a visit. Been there, done that. 18 months to 3 is kind of sucky anyway as far as restaurants and visits if you ask me!
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Old 12-05-2008, 10:01 PM
 
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Originally Posted by vbactivist View Post
the problem is that catuba is implying that mothers should be able to firce 2yo to follow rules without fail. she does not see how unrealistic that is. and if something were to happen between the dog and the child, catuba would place most, if not all, the blame on the child and its mother, whereas, I and other posters, believe the dog owner would be just as much, if not more, at fault.
was naking before - sorry abouthorendous typing. If the dog owner can't control his dog - he shouldn't allow it to be around humans - even if that means not having house guests. he should not be able to say, sure come over, but enter at your own risk. and i really do believe that if the dog attacked the child, the owner (of the dog) would be the one legally responsible for any medical costs, etc.
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