Infant Seat Test Flaws Article - Page 3 - Mothering Forums

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#61 of 95 Old 03-04-2009, 12:05 AM
 
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Originally Posted by kayleezoo View Post
the arb is the first year's answer to a rf tether.
arb?

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#62 of 95 Old 03-04-2009, 12:08 AM
 
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arb= anti rebound bar

the function is to prevent the cocooning of the seat into the vehicle seat back upon impact. some techs are wondering if it will provide any stability in a side-impact collision like a rf tether (which also prevents the seat from rebounding into the vehicle seat back), but most agree that the anti-rebound feature is more important.

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#63 of 95 Old 03-04-2009, 12:11 AM
 
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arb = anti rebound bar - a piece that sticks up from the foot of the seat and holds it off the seatback.

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#64 of 95 Old 03-04-2009, 12:16 AM
 
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Originally Posted by 3pink1blue View Post
my bucket seats are BRAND NEW. Well, not anymore, i guess. A 2007 and 2008 model. And they snap right into the cart. I think any seat will.
Nope, many seats don't.

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It's the hook that would snap it into the base that will grab the edge of the cart's seat to snap it on. it's not just dangling there. and I will continue to put my babies there, because there's no other place to put them while grocery shopping.
Umm... my baby is usually on my back while grocery shopping. When he was tiny, he was on my front.

If you look at your carseat manual, it likely tells you specifically that the seat is NOT designed to be attached to a shopping cart, and that it should not be placed on top of anything (table, cart, hood of the car, etc.) due to falling danger.
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#65 of 95 Old 03-04-2009, 01:55 AM
 
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Originally Posted by 3pink1blue View Post
my bucket seats are BRAND NEW. Well, not anymore, i guess. A 2007 and 2008 model. And they snap right into the cart. I think any seat will. It's the hook that would snap it into the base that will grab the edge of the cart's seat to snap it on. it's not just dangling there. and I will continue to put my babies there, because there's no other place to put them while grocery shopping.
A sling or other infant carrier. I never brought ds in the store in a bucket and I did and still do 100% of the shopping.

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#66 of 95 Old 03-04-2009, 02:02 AM
 
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Now I am wondering if I should even buy a new Infant car seat. With ds we had planned to use the Marathon form birth but he was in the NICu and tehy had to do a carseat test. So we had to have an infant carseat. My cousin gave us one as she received two for gifts an they only had one car. I could not stand it it was an evenflo. The thing did not fit well in our car and he was 26 inches fast (the height limit) we ended up putting ds in the Decathalon at 10 weeks. he fit great I wish I had put him in sooner! Not sure what to do withthe next one. we were thinkinga Chicco keyfit because it fits in our car best.

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#67 of 95 Old 03-04-2009, 02:08 AM
 
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Originally Posted by mamapixie View Post
Buy a sling or carrier, since I used a convertible from birth, it was the only way I could get the shopping done. And no, no infant seats made now HOOK onto the carts. They may fit onto the cart, but they do not hook onto it any longer. The old Century infant seat I used with my oldest did, but neither the Fisher Price stay in view, nor the Graco Safe Seat have any way to secure the seat to the cart.
The Graco Snugride we used did . . . and I know it because it was an utter and complete PAIN IN THE ASS to get unclipped when my husband tried it. The thing came out of its base easier than it unclipped from a cart.
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#68 of 95 Old 03-04-2009, 02:17 AM
 
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No, the carseat companies have purposely been making their seats so that they don't snap onto carts, because it is inherently dangerous to do so. It throws off the whole center of gravity of the cart. There have been many injuries reported either the seat falls off, or the cart tips over, or even worse, baby falls out of the seat.
See, this claim versus some of the others just bewilders me.

Our local grocery has those carts + baby seats . . . which are a molded plastic seat which flip down over the "toddler" seat in the cart exactly in at the same height and in the same position as a clipped-in carseat would end up at. From pushing the plastic seat into place a couple of times, the seat seems to be about the same weight as your standard carseat.

All they seem to avoid is the "seat falling off" problem. If the weight there is going to throw off the center of gravity of the cart and risk over-toppling the cart, it's no different.
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#69 of 95 Old 03-04-2009, 10:42 AM
 
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Originally Posted by skybluepink02 View Post
However, I was very impressed by Combi's response to the information. They're a great company!
:

I'm due in August and we're shopping for a new carseat. I have a less than one year old Marathon that I'm planning on using when the new baby grows into it, but I've been looking for an infant seat to use until then. I was going to get a Britax companion, but Combi has now shot to the top of my list.
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#70 of 95 Old 03-04-2009, 12:02 PM
 
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I ran across this article:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/n...1.story?page=1

Makes me think that any seat I purchase from now on will be a convertible. Just another reason not to use a bucket seat.
Seems to me the lesson is to not use the snap in base. Every bucket seat can be belted in independently, the base is for convenience.

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#71 of 95 Old 03-04-2009, 12:03 PM
 
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See, this claim versus some of the others just bewilders me.

Our local grocery has those carts + baby seats . . . which are a molded plastic seat which flip down over the "toddler" seat in the cart exactly in at the same height and in the same position as a clipped-in carseat would end up at. From pushing the plastic seat into place a couple of times, the seat seems to be about the same weight as your standard carseat.

All they seem to avoid is the "seat falling off" problem. If the weight there is going to throw off the center of gravity of the cart and risk over-toppling the cart, it's no different.
:
If it's a cart balance problem, it would exist whether you put your seat there, or the seat was put there by the store.

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#72 of 95 Old 03-04-2009, 12:41 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Multimomma View Post
Seems to me the lesson is to not use the snap in base. Every bucket seat can be belted in independently, the base is for convenience.
Not every seat can be used without the base. Some are base only.

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#73 of 95 Old 03-04-2009, 06:35 PM
 
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Seems to me the lesson is to not use the snap in base. Every bucket seat can be belted in independently, the base is for convenience.
It is really really hard to install them without the base, and irritating, too. You have to lock the belt off, it goes over the baby's legs, yada yada yada. We did it once while travelling and it's a PITA. You have to uninstall the seat every time you take the baby out.
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#74 of 95 Old 03-04-2009, 06:48 PM
 
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It's been five years since I used it but when we used a Graco bucket with our first without the base, we did not need to install and uninstall it all the time and the seatbelt did not go over the baby's legs.

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#75 of 95 Old 03-04-2009, 07:03 PM
 
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Seems to me the lesson is to not use the snap in base. Every bucket seat can be belted in independently, the base is for convenience.
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Originally Posted by DahliaRW View Post
Not every seat can be used without the base. Some are base only.
The Evenflo Embrace we had could only be used with the base.
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#76 of 95 Old 03-04-2009, 10:27 PM
 
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Grocery carts and car seats are not meant to be compatible. Nor is it safe. There are a startling number of injuries from falls in infant carriers used in ways they are not intended. Here is a link to a study, it's old, I can't find the current one right now and it's bedtime, but I'll look more later... But in the year sited, there were 8700 injuries from falls associated with infant carriers used outside of the car. The ones that are on the carts are BOLTED there, so they can't fall off but even so, they are still not recomended. The AAP recomends to not use them that way "Many infant-only car safety seats lock into shopping carts, and many stores have shopping carts with built-in infant seats. This may seem safe, but thousands of children are hurt every year from falling out of shopping carts or from the carts tipping over. Instead of placing your baby's car safety seat on the cart, consider using a stroller or front pack while shopping with your baby. "

Some infant seats can be installed without the base, some can't and some don't even have bases. This is another "read the directions" recomendation. But you raise your error risk A LOT by installing the seat every time you use it. I can't see why you would use an infant carrier, for the convenience, and then try to just leave it installed? Too much room for error, as you (in most cases) have to slide the baby out from under the seat belt. I would think a convertible would just make more sense, in those cases.

I still don't think it is time to panic. These car seats perform well in over 95% of crashes. The odds of a seat failing are very small. Proper use, and proper installation, is still the best advice, while we see what pans out. And for parents that are still concerned about the safety of their infant carrier, a convertible is going to be the next car seat for your child anyway, just move them now.

Meanwhile, use of a convertible will negate the shopping cart debate, so you're good all the way around

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Some infant seats can be installed without the base, some can't and some don't even have bases. This is another "read the directions" recomendation.

Meanwhile, use of a convertible will negate the shopping cart debate, so you're good all the way around
What infant seat doesn't have a base? I'd be very interested in that for the future.

Also - small newborns really don't fit well into most convertibles. Maybe there are some that will fit one? DD certainly wouldn't have fit in her Britax as a newborn. Or for several months after...
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#78 of 95 Old 03-05-2009, 01:46 AM
 
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Also - small newborns really don't fit well into most convertibles. Maybe there are some that will fit one? DD certainly wouldn't have fit in her Britax as a newborn. Or for several months after...
The True Fit and Radian both have padding available to fit the seat better to tiny newborns. It comes standard with the True Fit and Radian 80, and you can order it for the Radian 65. I don't know about the Radian XT.

I understand that the Scenera fits newborns fairly well, too.
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#79 of 95 Old 03-05-2009, 01:52 AM
 
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The True Fit and Radian both have padding available to fit the seat better to tiny newborns. It comes standard with the True Fit and Radian 80, and you can order it for the Radian 65. I don't know about the Radian XT.

I understand that the Scenera fits newborns fairly well, too.
Thanks - how low do the shoulder straps go? I have a good friend who's pg and is trying to figure out what carseat to get for the little one.
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Thanks - how low do the shoulder straps go? I have a good friend who's pg and is trying to figure out what carseat to get for the little one.
I just read a list of stats, but can't find them. I think they are all around7-7.5" (assuming you use the infant padding with the True Fit or Radian).
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#81 of 95 Old 03-05-2009, 11:27 AM
 
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Not every seat can be used without the base. Some are base only.
That's funny, I've bought so many over the years, and they all were. Sorry for my poor assumption.

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#82 of 95 Old 03-05-2009, 12:40 PM
 
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The True Fit and Radian both have padding available to fit the seat better to tiny newborns. It comes standard with the True Fit and Radian 80, and you can order it for the Radian 65. I don't know about the Radian XT.

I understand that the Scenera fits newborns fairly well, too.
Unfortunately, whether a seat is going to fit a newborn isn't something that can really be determined until that newborn is present, since it's really more dependent on torso height than overall height.

The hospital where I delivered does a car seat check before releasing. This is because they found many parents putting torso-small babies into inappropriate seats (if you have a newborn with a short torso, there may be no convertible in which the bottom straps are below the shoulders).

Le babe was so torso-short that the Snugride was almost inappropriate for him at release--the bottom slots where just a smidge below his shoulders.
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Posting because when I click on page 5, it keeps taking me to page 4.
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#84 of 95 Old 03-05-2009, 06:33 PM
 
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Posting because when I click on page 5, it keeps taking me to page 4.
All the really *good* stuff is in page 5. You're just not allowed to see it.

(I mean - that's weird... same thing happens to me)

eta - oooh! I'M on page 5! I must be the good stuff!!!

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#85 of 95 Old 03-05-2009, 06:36 PM
 
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This is weird.
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#86 of 95 Old 03-05-2009, 08:15 PM
 
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The hospital where I delivered does a car seat check before releasing. This is because they found many parents putting torso-small babies into inappropriate seats (if you have a newborn with a short torso, there may be no convertible in which the bottom straps are below the shoulders).

Le babe was so torso-short that the Snugride was almost inappropriate for him at release--the bottom slots where just a smidge below his shoulders.
With the padding, I think the True Fit bottom slots fits about like the SnugRide.
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#87 of 95 Old 03-05-2009, 10:55 PM
 
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With the padding, I think the True Fit bottom slots fits about like the SnugRide.
And now that I know what I know, I suspect that the nurse who reviewed our carseat with him in it (several of the hospital's nurses are certified carseat techs and both do these reviews and run all our local installation clinics) probably shouldn't have let us use the Snugride. We took pictures of him in it, in the hospital, and it's pretty clear he didn't actually meet the real safety requirements for the seat.

But he wasn't officially a preemie, and he was officially "over" the lower limits on the seat. (He was 5lb, 13oz at birth and they measured his length right at 18 inches . . . I don't know his release weight, and he was only measured at 17 inches at his 5 day appt.)
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And now that I know what I know, I suspect that the nurse who reviewed our carseat with him in it (several of the hospital's nurses are certified carseat techs and both do these reviews and run all our local installation clinics) probably shouldn't have let us use the Snugride. We took pictures of him in it, in the hospital, and it's pretty clear he didn't actually meet the real safety requirements for the seat.

But he wasn't officially a preemie, and he was officially "over" the lower limits on the seat. (He was 5lb, 13oz at birth and they measured his length right at 18 inches . . . I don't know his release weight, and he was only measured at 17 inches at his 5 day appt.)
Mine were preemies and under 5 pounds at discharge. Probably shouldn't have by the books come home in the snugrides they came home in - but if the baby is too small for a bucket the alternative is stay in the hospital till they grow, or a car bed and I don't know, maybe rear facing in a seat a smidge too big is still safer than a car bed??

There are apparantly a few buckets for 4 pounds and up - I didn't know this or possibly would have gotten those instead of the snugrides, since with twins we anticipated early and small.

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#89 of 95 Old 03-06-2009, 12:13 AM
 
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Why wouldn't the carbed be safe?

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#90 of 95 Old 03-06-2009, 12:07 PM
 
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Why wouldn't the carbed be safe?
Well to be honest I don't know that it's not - that's why I said "maybe."

They say rear facing is safest for an infant. My understanding is the rear facing position can cause a baby to crash... arg, I forget the term they use, SATS?? Before they let babies out of NICU they have them sit in their bucket for a certain length of time (I think it was an hour at my hospital, maybe onlu 45 minutes) with monitors on them to make sure they are breathing, heart rate is good, blood oxygen levels are good, all that. If the baby doesn't pass the car seat test, then I thought that was when they suggested a car bed since there is no medical reason to keep the baby in the hospital, just a medical reason not to put them in a typical car seat. I just had this feeling that a car bed (side facing position) was not as ideal as rear facing, but it's a compromise so the baby can be mobile. Not that the car bed isn't safe, just rear facing is better - but what good is it to protect your kid in a crash if he's already suffocated from sitting in his car seat? It seems to me like if a baby was on the very cusp of the size requirement for a bucket, you would err on the side of putting them in a slightly too big rear facing bucket vs. putting them in a car bed - I thought the car bed was more used for medical fragililty rather than size.

But once again let me point out that I said MAYBE.

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