Infant Seat Test Flaws Article - Mothering Forums

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Old 03-02-2009, 03:56 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I ran across this article:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/n...1.story?page=1

Makes me think that any seat I purchase from now on will be a convertible. Just another reason not to use a bucket seat.
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Old 03-02-2009, 04:32 PM
 
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My take on the article was more that we need better testing on any seat, not just buckets.

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Old 03-02-2009, 04:50 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Completely agree on the point that all seats need as much testing as they can reasonably be given.

What the article does cement for me is my negative opinion on buckets in general. My observation is that a pretty large portion of bucket users are complacent on safety. Perching them on shopping carts for example...

While we all understand that parenting a young infant is a challenge, I think the manufacturers/marketers have been irresponsible in positioning the buckets in such a way that some parents utilize them as an almost 24/7 infant containment device rather than as "just a car seat".
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Old 03-02-2009, 05:11 PM
 
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Well as my 7 mo old takes her afternoon nap in her bucket seat....I checked out the story only to discover that the soft Baby Einstein blocks she was chewing on this weekend have unsafe levels of lead....crud. I wouldn't be surprised if DS train table downstairs was covered in lead paint. Wish we had the $$$ to replace everything b/c that's really what I feel like doing right now.

And, as far as taking babies out and about....bucket seats are so convenient and that's why people use them. There are a lot of people who for various reasons have no desire to wear babe in a sling.
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Old 03-02-2009, 06:27 PM
 
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Yikes! Seeing that infant car seat coming off the base is pretty scary. I just put ds in a Marathon yesterday. Bye, bye bucket!

Mindfully parenting DD 8/04 & DS 11/08, Human beings are the only mammals who do not nurse their offspring to full term.
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Old 03-02-2009, 06:29 PM
 
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I'm a bucket user & actually have the Graco SafeSeat. It works well with our vehicle since it is a 2door SUV with only 2 seats in the back with 2 carseats. I can take the bucket out of the base, sit it on the floor & put babe in a sling. Once in a while I let him nap a few more minutes if he fell asleep on the way home from an errand. It is never put on top of a cart (once in a while it goes in the basket, but rarely).

So much info is missing to make any informed decisions. There's no way to know that the seats were installed right or snapped into the base correctly. Did they use the same seat repeatedly? You're supposed to replace a seat after ANY crash so if the seat was used in testing more than once, then the info is invalid. The test were done to see how the CARS perfomed & not the child seats. Again, too much left out to make any kind of informed decision.

Most convertibles also aren't made with low enough slots to fit newborns well. That is a huge problem. There are MANY seats my boys would not have fit until anywhere from 3-8 months old. (One is giant & the other a peanut.) I think there are only 3 or 4 that fit most newborns well, but definitely not all.
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Old 03-02-2009, 06:48 PM
 
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I'm looking to get a 3-in-1 right now.
Strangely, yesterday I found myself at the store-that-shouldn't-be-named staring at the carseats. Knowing beyond a shadow of a doubt that we will be buying one, um today. DD2 is in DD1's old bucket and I hate it and am afraid of it. We don't go anywhere very often and I'm paranoid the entire time about the stupid bucket (it flips up like one in the video, bc of the way you strap it)...
I've often thought the babe would be better off in a sling tied to me with me strapped than in that stupid bucket (not that I would, but that it seemed safer, yk?)

So, I'm sending DH to the Wal-Mart tonight (drat, I said it!) to get one of the seats. I'm looking at this one: http://www.walmart.com/catalog/produ...ct_id=10759862 Thoughts? DD2 is about 14lbs and 4months old, so I only want to buy her ONE seat.

---feeling like an emu on acid---
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Old 03-02-2009, 07:01 PM
 
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3 in 1s are almost never a good idea.

Buckets are fine. The key IMO is using a reliable brand.

-Angela
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Old 03-02-2009, 07:06 PM
 
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FWIW...if you have a Big Lots around....I've seen the same seat, different color, for $70 cheaper.
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Old 03-02-2009, 07:06 PM
 
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Originally Posted by thixle View Post
So, I'm sending DH to the Wal-Mart tonight (drat, I said it!) to get one of the seats. I'm looking at this one: http://www.walmart.com/catalog/produ...ct_id=10759862 Thoughts? DD2 is about 14lbs and 4months old, so I only want to buy her ONE seat.
that carseat won't be the last you will need. a radian is only $20 more and could last you a few more years. it has higher harness slots, a taller shell, and is a more narrow seat, making it easier for others to sit next to her, or install anotehr carseat.
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/produ...uct_id=8135734
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Old 03-02-2009, 07:07 PM
 
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So dsiappointed. I really like the concept of the Safeseat..not that I am having another child anytime soon, but I tell friends who are looking for a good seat.

About the 3 in 1 seat. Its not a favorite. THe shell and harness hieghts on the seats are not as high as other convertibles in the same class. For example the True Fit or Radian. I realize niether of these seats can be purchased IRL at Wal-mart so that might make the decision difficult

Next, the Booster mode on these seats are Known for not being a good booster.

Personally, I would skip the 3 in 1 seat and get a Big convertiable in teh same Price Clase, even the Evenflo Triumph would give you more growing room than the 3 in 1

HTH.
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Old 03-02-2009, 07:20 PM
 
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Originally Posted by thixle View Post
I'm looking to get a 3-in-1 right now.
Strangely, yesterday I found myself at the store-that-shouldn't-be-named staring at the carseats. Knowing beyond a shadow of a doubt that we will be buying one, um today. DD2 is in DD1's old bucket and I hate it and am afraid of it. We don't go anywhere very often and I'm paranoid the entire time about the stupid bucket (it flips up like one in the video, bc of the way you strap it)...
I've often thought the babe would be better off in a sling tied to me with me strapped than in that stupid bucket (not that I would, but that it seemed safer, yk?)

So, I'm sending DH to the Wal-Mart tonight (drat, I said it!) to get one of the seats. I'm looking at this one: http://www.walmart.com/catalog/produ...ct_id=10759862 Thoughts? DD2 is about 14lbs and 4months old, so I only want to buy her ONE seat.

I got that one at Big Lots for $90. I figure by the time she is big enough to need a booster seat, I will buy her something like the Nautilus, b/c we'll hopefully have another baby by then who will use the AO.

Mama to expecting Babe 2
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Old 03-02-2009, 07:24 PM
 
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I came back to post that this seat would definitely not be the last one you need....but, somebody already beat me to the punch!! I just finished our search for a seat for DS and was trying to get him back to RF. I swear I put him in every convertible seat in town and really nothing (even the few Britax models in town) was going to last him much longer than his CrappySport. I've ordered a Nautilus. $143 on Amazon.
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Old 03-02-2009, 08:26 PM
 
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3 in 1s are almost never a good idea.

Buckets are fine. The key IMO is using a reliable brand.

-Angela
Why is it that 3 in 1s are almost never a good idea? What about the Britax Marathon? Does anyone use that with an infant? Or the Sunshine Kids Radian65? It seems to me that avoiding buckets with bases would be safer.
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Old 03-02-2009, 08:33 PM
 
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Why is it that 3 in 1s are almost never a good idea? What about the Britax Marathon? Does anyone use that with an infant? Or the Sunshine Kids Radian65? It seems to me that avoiding buckets with bases would be safer.
A lot of newborns won't fit into a 3-in-1 properly. DD went home at 5 lbs 4 ounces (she was pre-term). The smallest slots on her Marathon were comically high on her until she was closer to 9 months. Honestly. I can't even begin to imagine how they think it's safe to put a newborn in one. Plus the rubber strap covers over her chest would automatically make it not fit a tiny baby, since their torsos are shorter than the strap covers. Here's a photo (those are the lowest shoulder slots) of a newborn in a Marathon: http://www.freewebs.com/sacredjourne...6778505&prev=1

I find that article and the videos really concerning. I think it's disgraceful that the safety test for carseats (the bench slide test) is so inadequate. How do we know what is safe and what isn't when there isn't any good testing of various seats or any safety rating for them?
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Old 03-02-2009, 08:55 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thixle View Post
I'm looking to get a 3-in-1 right now.
Strangely, yesterday I found myself at the store-that-shouldn't-be-named staring at the carseats. Knowing beyond a shadow of a doubt that we will be buying one, um today. DD2 is in DD1's old bucket and I hate it and am afraid of it. We don't go anywhere very often and I'm paranoid the entire time about the stupid bucket (it flips up like one in the video, bc of the way you strap it)...
I've often thought the babe would be better off in a sling tied to me with me strapped than in that stupid bucket (not that I would, but that it seemed safer, yk?)

So, I'm sending DH to the Wal-Mart tonight (drat, I said it!) to get one of the seats. I'm looking at this one: http://www.walmart.com/catalog/produ...ct_id=10759862 Thoughts? DD2 is about 14lbs and 4months old, so I only want to buy her ONE seat.
If you want a car seat that will truly last you to booster age, get a true fit. It's probably the best one that will fit newborns and 5-6 year olds. The radian is good too, but I like the padding better in the true fit and it has less installation issues.

Happily married to my dh, mama to ds1 (01/2005), ds2 (07/2007)  and dd (07/2009).
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Old 03-02-2009, 09:50 PM
 
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So, too small for a tiny baby is the main reason for no 3-in-1? or is it bc they are too small for the larger kids in the weight class? Or, what the heck am I missing here? I suppose I can order online, it's not like she hasn't been riding in this bucket for almost 3 months. It just kills me now knowing how bad it really is.

Why is the only sticky about ease of installation and use? No matter what, a carseat is a pain to install, so who gives a hoot on that. Where are the safety raitings? Oh, wait, that would be too much to ask for this country. :

---feeling like an emu on acid---
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Old 03-02-2009, 10:02 PM
 
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3 in 1s are all outgrown in harness mode far before a child is ready to be in a booster. Then they're rotten as boosters.

MUCH better to get something like a truefit.

-Angela
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Old 03-02-2009, 10:15 PM
 
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My observation is that a pretty large portion of bucket users are complacent on safety.
Honestly, that is truly an offensive statement to make. There are many moms here that use infant seats as they are the best fit for a large number of infants.
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Old 03-02-2009, 10:25 PM
 
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Here is the link to the Safe Kids response to the article.

An excerpts reads:

An article in the March 1, 2009 edition of the Chicago Tribune suggested that unpublicized government crash tests from 2008 may have revealed "flaws" in car seats. While the details of the tests are still unclear, one thing remains undisputed: car seats save children's lives every day. It is critical that parents and caregivers continue to use car seats for their children.

Correctly used car seats and booster seats are extremely effective, reducing the risk of death in a crash by as much as 71 percent. And the number of children killed in crashes over the past 30 years has dropped significantly, mostly due to the widespread use of car seats and enhanced child passenger safety laws.

Safe Kids USA always puts children and their safety first. Despite the report in the Tribune, the car seats on the market today are still the best, proven way to protect children in the event of a crash. Parents should continue to buckle their children in the right car seat or booster seat on every ride.

Safe Kids believes that more testing for car seats and vehicles can only continue to advance the child passenger safety field and improve the level of protection we can offer children when they ride. The more we know about car seats and how they react in crashes, the better equipped we will be to push for new technology and improvements that will keep children safer.

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Old 03-02-2009, 10:52 PM
 
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What the article does cement for me is my negative opinion on buckets in general. My observation is that a pretty large portion of bucket users are complacent on safety.
We bought a SafeSeat for our youngest because I researched and it was found to be one of the safest infant seats (at the time obviously). My babies do not fit into convertable carseats at birth and I have read again and again that infant seats are safest for newborns.

The real issue is why aren't carseats tested better for safety before being put on the market?

OUR DAUGHTERS ARE PROTECTED SHOULDN'T OUR SONS BE TOO! :
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Old 03-02-2009, 11:09 PM
 
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3 in 1s are almost never a good idea.

Buckets are fine. The key IMO is using a reliable brand.

-Angela
The scary thing about that article is that reliable brands, for example the Britax Companion, failed terribly.
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Old 03-02-2009, 11:49 PM
 
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And here I bought the 200.00 companion because I thought I was being safe. Not complacent. He's in a marathon now, I move him as soon as he fits well in one. I'd been saving my companion for my next babies I want, what should I do with it?
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Old 03-02-2009, 11:50 PM
 
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Watching the video on the companion made me ill. I am so glad that she is out of that seat. That being said, we are currently using the bottom slots on her Marathon, so there is no way my little 18 inches at birth DD would have fit in it as an infant.
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Old 03-03-2009, 12:06 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Honestly, that is truly an offensive statement to make. There are many moms here that use infant seats as they are the best fit for a large number of infants.
That sentence, taken out of the context of the surrounding words, might be provocative..It's followed by an example of parents putting the seats on shopping carts to give clarification. And please notice that I end the post by putting what fault there is on the manufacturers/marketers, not on parents, for not making people more aware of safety issues like unsecured buckets falling off shopping carts, and infants who have breathing problems when they are left in an unsuitable position in the bucket for long periods of time.
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Old 03-03-2009, 12:36 AM
 
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This part of the article attracted my attention:
Quote:
The Tribune found that many infant restraints strapped into the back seats of vehicles with five-star safety ratings — the highest possible — performed poorly.

Auto ratings aren't even negatively affected when a vehicle's back seat breaks apart in a head-on collision.

Yet a problem with the back seat can have a dramatic effect on child safety restraints. Photos from NHTSA's testing show that the back seat of the model-2008 Infiniti EX35 hatchback moved so much during its frontal crash test that the bottom and top seat cushions separated. Both the Combi Connection and the Graco SnugRide in that test exceeded limits for head and chest injuries in that crash.

The strap that fastens between the baby's legs on the Combi Connection ripped out of the infant carrier, a structural failure that didn't happen in a subsequent crash test in a Saturn Vue SUV where the back seat remained intact. The Infiniti has a four-star frontal crash rating.
Sounds like we need better cars before we can start talking about better carseats. A carseat can only take so much stress, it's not meant to absorb a complete crash, like what apparently happened in this test.

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Old 03-03-2009, 12:44 AM
 
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I really think the big thing this exposed is NOT that the car seats are unsafe. They comply to their standards. It's that the testing process does not allow for things like the back seat seperating. Car seats are crash tested on sleds, bench seats. There are no 'real life factors'. And realistically, how do you do that? You couldn't ever test every combination of car seats and vehicles, plus positions in the vehicle and improper use scenerios that we see every day.

Also, it's VERY important to realize that a 35 mph test into a concrete barrier EXCEEDS the impact forces of 95% of real life collisions.

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Old 03-03-2009, 12:53 AM
 
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It's an interesting article. It underlines what I've been saying for years- we need to test seats in CARS, not sleds.

I think that standards need to be much higher but I think people will scream bloody murder when they see prices for seats to meet higher standards.

This is a good example of why I analyze extra safety features in choosing seats instead of assuming the tired line that all seats are equally safe.

I don't think buckets are any worse than other seats- I just think they were what was tested here.

-Angela
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Old 03-03-2009, 01:12 AM
 
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Wow. Scary stuff. That Safe Kids response is accurate but lends a dismissive feeling. I see they're trying to make sure parents continue to use the seats and don't stop, claiming, "they're not safe anyway." But to those of us who are in the highly concerned category, it's neither here nor there whether they are the safest seats on the market. The safest seats are still not safe enough.

We just bought a KeyFit 30. Thankfully it seemed to be the safest of the bunch...though it still worries me. And Britax??? Shame on them!

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Old 03-03-2009, 02:44 AM
 
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Wow. Scary stuff. That Safe Kids response is accurate but lends a dismissive feeling.

And Britax??? Shame on them!
I think Safe Kids has to lend a calming voice. It will do no good to have parents panicking that their seats are unsafe. Like Angela said, it's just that these seats were tested. We could all ditch infant carriers and run out for convertibles, but we haven't seen those results in these situations. Safe Kids has a responsibility to say, slow down, take a step back. Get your seats checked by a CPST and by all means USE them. Non-use is a HUGE issue, more than most parents not involved in the CPS world probably realize. In most areas, around 50% of fatalities in vehicles are unrestrained children. Studies like this and the Freakanomics guy, get people arguing with us that no car seat is safe. Which is the last thing we need to have happen.

Testing at 35 MPH, in vehicles where the entire back seats are failing is not even remotely standard practice. I work with people who work at the crash test facilities, and Britax is one the companies that comes back again and again, to get it right. They voluntarily recall their own products. Britax is one of the good guys in this, they have gone far and above to try to get it right.

I'm not sure what to make of this. It's not something that we know much about yet. It's really important to remember that this testing is more severe than 95% of crashes. I think that we all have to step back and see what comes of it, and in the mean time, be sure we are correctly using our seats every time.

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