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#61 of 96 Old 06-11-2009, 10:48 AM
 
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Did anyone notice this????



Does this mean that it is actually legal to nurse a child in a moving vehicle???
I have heard of this in one state back east.
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#62 of 96 Old 06-11-2009, 11:54 AM
 
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Does this mean that it is actually legal to nurse a child in a moving vehicle???
I believe there was a case a couple years ago where a mother who started out in Michigan (or lived in Michigan or something) was nursing a child in... Ohio, I believe, in a moving car. She got ticketed, I believe, and tried to fight it. Let me see if I can find that info...

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#63 of 96 Old 06-11-2009, 12:00 PM
 
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http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/...04/detail.html

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#64 of 96 Old 06-11-2009, 12:10 PM
 
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I believe there was a case a couple years ago where a mother who started out in Michigan (or lived in Michigan or something) was nursing a child in... Ohio, I believe, in a moving car. She got ticketed, I believe, and tried to fight it. Let me see if I can find that info...
Isn't that the one who was nursing while driving and talking on the cell phone and taking notes? Then she refused to give the cop her info cause only her husband could do that? It was strange.. I guess I will go read your link.
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#65 of 96 Old 06-11-2009, 12:21 PM
 
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That is wild! I can't believe the woman gave no thought to the fact that her baby was unsafe out of a carseat. Of course she made sure SHE was wearing a seatbelt, but the baby could just lay there because it isn't illegal.

I will continue to be horrified by this for the rest of the day.

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#66 of 96 Old 06-11-2009, 01:19 PM
 
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Isn't that the one who was nursing while driving and talking on the cell phone and taking notes? Then she refused to give the cop her info cause only her husband could do that? It was strange.. I guess I will go read your link.
I think that was a second one that happened recently.... February of this year maybe? A woman driving, breastfeeding and talking on a cell phone. Insane. That one was in Ohio too. Maybe we should all just avoid roads in Ohio... LOL (said jokingly... my older sis lives in Ohio. While she does breastfeed, she wouldn't while driving! I also drive through Ohio regularly to get to Michigan ).

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#67 of 96 Old 06-11-2009, 01:49 PM
 
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The law in MI used to be that if you were nursing a baby then you couldnt be ticketed for the baby not being in a carseat, dont know if they took that out when they recently changed (improved) the carseat laws.

I am pretty surprised that there isnt an expectation that the people selling you are carseat at *a baby store* know the bare minimum of how to use that carseat. When i go to Best Buy to buy a video card for my son's computer, i expect the guy who is working that specific section to know which one i should buy, or at *the very least* not give me bad advice. Its ok for him to say "i dont have an opinion" or "i cant tell you the answer to that" but for him to sell me a product that is actually BAD for my computer is not cool. I would expect less from the guy at walmart, but i presume additional training at places like Best Buy which is more of a specialty/product specific type of place.

So, in a similar vein, i would expect the manager of baby gear at BRU to know the bare minimum basics about carseat safety and carseat products...for example, i would expect her to know that a baby must be 1 yr old AND at least 20 pounds to forward face, so that the workers in that section were not erroneously selling fwd facing only carseats to parents of 9 month olds. To me, thats basic common sense. Now, would i expect that same person to tell people not to fwd face until the limits of the seat (so, not the minimum 1 and 20)...well, that would be really nice, but no, i wouldnt expect it. Would i expect this same person to NOT tell someone "oh, no, ERF is so unsafe because the child could move the seat or break his legs!", yes, i would expect them to NOT give out stupid advice. Unfortunately thats not always the case.

I think most parents spending 200 or 300 hundred bucks on a seat at BRU fully expect to get some guidance from the person selling it to them, esp since the person usually ACTS like they know what they are talking about.

I think its really sad that a person working (ESP a manager or supervisor) in a baby-specific store wouldnt WANT to keep up to date on the latest info, provide good info to their customers etc. But at the very least they should not be giving out info that is contrary to the manufacturer's guidelines of a product they are selling to their customers.


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#68 of 96 Old 06-11-2009, 02:03 PM
 
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Hi all! Please keep in mind the new guidelines for discussing news articles:
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We will allow members to discuss news items in appropriate parenting forums such as breastfeeding items in lactivism, birth related items in the birth forums or chickenpox outbreaks in Health & Healing. However, keep in mind that threads still need to remain on-topic for the forum and should not be about individuals but about the general topic.
You can find the full text here.

Please keep all talk about the recently posted news article to the general topic, and not about the individuals involved.

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#69 of 96 Old 06-11-2009, 02:58 PM
 
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That is wild! I can't believe the woman gave no thought to the fact that her baby was unsafe out of a carseat. Of course she made sure SHE was wearing a seatbelt, but the baby could just lay there because it isn't illegal.

I will continue to be horrified by this for the rest of the day.
It's amazing how car seat laws differ from state to state.

As far as the OP is concerned, I do not expect the sales people at any store to be experts on laws that concern my children. My kids = my responsibility to know what's right and what's wrong. And even if the sales person was correct, I would still look up the information myself because frankly, when it comes to my kids, the only one I really trust is myself.

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#70 of 96 Old 06-11-2009, 04:21 PM
 
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Like a previous poster, I was ignorant of my state's laws until one day at the store I saw a stack of posters indicating the law. I'm so glad my store had those because I had no idea that you shouldn't turn a 20 pound 4 month old. I wish all stores included these sheets next to their car seats.

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#71 of 96 Old 06-11-2009, 04:23 PM
 
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The nursing exemption in Michigan law has not been removed. There is current legislation that would do that, finally. Although it hasn't been voted on the last couple times it's been introduced, so I'm not holding my breath. It's blocking access to millions of dollars of federal funding for child restraints.

I would prefer that baby stores did one of two things, train their staff as CPST's (and we have some awesome local stores that have done just that!!) OR teach their staff to NOT answer questions but refer them to a list of local CPST's, and/or a national list of resources.

Parents do expect the advice of a sales person to at least be sort of accurate, and it's often wildly wrong. I here all kinds of stories from parents who were told crazy things, and then I have to go back and explain that they are not CPST's, they should not be offering that advice, etc. And here is what the real advice is...

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#72 of 96 Old 06-11-2009, 04:33 PM
 
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I worked at Babies R Us a few years back. Even at our store, there were issues with associates telling customers the wrong information about car seat laws, what was safest, etc.

I was in BRU recently and had to explain to a woman why her 18ish month old DD was not safe in a booster and it was against the law. The associate was showing her boosters and then I spoke up, so he began showing her the Nautilus and I spoke up again and he got mad and left.. her and I ended up talking and was grateful for the info I gave her. Sheesh. :/
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#73 of 96 Old 06-11-2009, 04:45 PM
 
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The nursing exemption in Michigan law has not been removed.
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#74 of 96 Old 06-11-2009, 04:54 PM
 
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Pro BFing is one thing, but that shouldn't be at the expense of safety. Seriously people you should not have your baby unbuckled in a moving car. Even if you are nursing.
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#75 of 96 Old 06-11-2009, 04:56 PM
 
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Breastmilk has a lot of superpowers, but it can't safely restrain a child in a crash.

Carseat-checking (CPST) and WAH mama to a twelve-year-old girl.
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#76 of 96 Old 06-11-2009, 05:12 PM
 
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meh. I'm just always for LESS legislation. I don't want or need the government micromanaging my life Some people do, though, so YMMV.
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#77 of 96 Old 06-11-2009, 05:16 PM
 
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I don't think it's micromanaging to codify into law that car in motion = baby in car seat.
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#78 of 96 Old 06-11-2009, 06:15 PM
 
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I could not disagree with this more. It takes a split second for an accident to happen, God forbid. Why not just pull over to feed the baby?

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Pro BFing is one thing, but that shouldn't be at the expense of safety. Seriously people you should not have your baby unbuckled in a moving car. Even if you are nursing.
Yes.

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Breastmilk has a lot of superpowers, but it can't safely restrain a child in a crash.
Yes to this, too.

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meh. I'm just always for LESS legislation. I don't want or need the government micromanaging my life Some people do, though, so YMMV.
Sadly, some people need to be micromanaged.

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#79 of 96 Old 06-11-2009, 06:54 PM
 
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I worked at Babies R Us a few years back. Even at our store, there were issues with associates telling customers the wrong information about car seat laws, what was safest, etc.

I was in BRU recently and had to explain to a woman why her 18ish month old DD was not safe in a booster and it was against the law. The associate was showing her boosters and then I spoke up, so he began showing her the Nautilus and I spoke up again and he got mad and left.. her and I ended up talking and was grateful for the info I gave her. Sheesh. :/
Eh... I have a Nautilus, and while my 5 year old uses it and my 2 year old uses her old Evenflo advanced I am wondering why an 18 month old couldn't use it if the child fit the height and weight requirement?
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#80 of 96 Old 06-11-2009, 07:31 PM
 
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I don't think it's micromanaging to codify into law that car in motion = baby in car seat.
I do, but I'm a libertarian, so...
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#81 of 96 Old 06-11-2009, 07:44 PM
 
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Eh... I have a Nautilus, and while my 5 year old uses it and my 2 year old uses her old Evenflo advanced I am wondering why an 18 month old couldn't use it if the child fit the height and weight requirement?
Ideally, an 18 month old should be rear-facing. The Nautilus doesn't rear-face, so I wouldn't recommend it for an 18 month old, even if they met the minimum requirements for it.
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#82 of 96 Old 06-11-2009, 07:47 PM
 
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I do, but I'm a libertarian, so...
This is completely off topic, but if the purpose of laws is to protect people from significant damage due to the actions of others, which is the general libertarian philosophy that laws must prevent a greivious harm to justify the restriction of the freedom of individuals, wouldn't infant car seat laws fall under the category of justified law?
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#83 of 96 Old 06-11-2009, 07:54 PM
 
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Ideally, an 18 month old should be rear-facing. The Nautilus doesn't rear-face, so I wouldn't recommend it for an 18 month old, even if they met the minimum requirements for it.
But again, the BRU employee was showing a customer a car seat within the parameters of the law, and within the car seat manufacturers specifications. So I can see why he would get annoyed with a customer coming and and saying otherwise. It could be that this parent was hoping not to have to buy a million different car seats for the same child and felt the Nautilus would fit that bill! I hoped to do that with the Evenflo Advanced, however my daughter outgrew it too.

FWIW I turned my youger kids by around 18 months. They absolutely HATED rear facing when their little bodies were that big. And yes. while I know some of you prefer the extended rear facing, I just don't agree with it. Sometimes we have to make the best choices for our families.
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#84 of 96 Old 06-11-2009, 08:08 PM
 
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But again, the BRU employee was showing a customer a car seat within the parameters of the law, and within the car seat manufacturers specifications. So I can see why he would get annoyed with a customer coming and and saying otherwise. It could be that this parent was hoping not to have to buy a million different car seats for the same child and felt the Nautilus would fit that bill! I hoped to do that with the Evenflo Advanced, however my daughter outgrew it too.

FWIW I turned my youger kids by around 18 months. They absolutely HATED rear facing when their little bodies were that big. And yes. while I know some of you prefer the extended rear facing, I just don't agree with it. Sometimes we have to make the best choices for our families.
Ah, I wasn't thinking of it in terms of a BRU recommending it to a customer. There are worse things (like the boosters he was originally showing the parent). However, if I were shopping for something, and the store employee wasn't up-to-date on info, I would gladly listen to another customer so that I could go research it myself.

I guess I was just thinking how research shows kids the age of an 18 month old are over 500% safer rear-facing than forward-facing and that the 18 month old would be significantly safer rear-facing, and I sort of ran with that with my original reply. I just had to turn my 4 year old forward-facing when she met the weight limit of her convertible carseat. I am uncomfortable with the decrease in safety going to forward-facing from rear-facing with a 4 year old, so that's where I was coming from with only an 18 month old.
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#85 of 96 Old 06-11-2009, 08:14 PM
 
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I agree that a Nautilus would not be my first choice for an 18-month-old, but I would consider it a victory if a mother who was looking at boosters for that toddler bought a Nautilus instead.

Carseat-checking (CPST) and WAH mama to a twelve-year-old girl.
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#86 of 96 Old 06-11-2009, 08:18 PM
 
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Ideally, an 18 month old should be rear-facing. The Nautilus doesn't rear-face, so I wouldn't recommend it for an 18 month old, even if they met the minimum requirements for it.
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Ah, I wasn't thinking of it in terms of a BRU recommending it to a customer. There are worse things (like the boosters he was originally showing the parent). However, if I were shopping for something, and the store employee wasn't up-to-date on info, I would gladly listen to another customer so that I could go research it myself.

I guess I was just thinking how research shows kids the age of an 18 month old are over 500% safer rear-facing than forward-facing and that the 18 month old would be significantly safer rear-facing, and I sort of ran with that with my original reply. I just had to turn my 4 year old forward-facing when she met the weight limit of her convertible carseat. I am uncomfortable with the decrease in safety going to forward-facing from rear-facing with a 4 year old, so that's where I was coming from with only an 18 month old.
They are safer walking than riding in a car as well. My 2 year old is forward facing. I am comfortable that he is nearly as safe FF as he is RF. I don't always agree with statistics, and I don't want to live my life scared of them either. We do the best we can and move on.
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#87 of 96 Old 06-11-2009, 08:25 PM
 
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I agree that a Nautilus would not be my first choice for an 18-month-old, but I would consider it a victory if a mother who was looking at boosters for that toddler bought a Nautilus instead.
And I can just imagine what this mother was thinking. Car seats are EXPENSIVE. Every time you turn around they change the laws. Each time you bought the best there is, something better comes out. So you want something that is going to last as long as it possibly can last.

When my 5 year old was about 2.5 I bought her a high back booster seat. It had the harness on it and went up to 100lbs. I thought I would never have to buy another seat. I was unaware however that the harness came off and you could only use the seatbelt after 40lbs. Which she hit at age 3. At age three I bought the EvenFlo Advanced (Nautilus wasn't out yet) Other than the Regent which I could not afford it had the highest weight limit for the harness. She outgrew that at 5. So I bought her the Nautilus. This doesn't even count her original Evenflo. So for this one, 5 year old child, I have spent well over $400 on car seats. Because she keeps growing and they keep changing the laws.

There is also the fact that I thin MOST PEOPLE are not aware of the fact that with the high back boosters you can't use the harness after X pounds until after you buy it and bring it home. By then it feels too late and you feel screwed. They should make that info CLEAR ON THE BOX. That way if you have tall children you will KNOW that you are going to have to buy another car seat. A 3 year old is not ready for a belt only booster seat.
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#88 of 96 Old 06-11-2009, 08:25 PM
 
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Sorry, I didn't specify, he told her only other option beside the boosters was to get a Nautilus. Her and I were still talking when he came up and began talking about the Nautilus. She said she'd think about it, I then asked what her DD weighed and she told me and I asked what about keeping her RF for a bit longer. The employee rolled his eyes, huffed, walked off and she just kinda looked at me and laughed and we began talking more about other seat options.

She was shopping for the safest option. She asked him prior to my talking to her, "But will she even fit into a booster properly?" and he said, "OH YES!" and trailed off on why it'd last her until she was ten years old, etc. :/

I didn't think to get into the specifics, sorry again!

ETA: She ended up going home and her DH bought a TF online. (We exchanged numbers as it turns out she lives just a couple of blocks from me)
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#89 of 96 Old 06-11-2009, 08:27 PM
 
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They are safer walking than riding in a car as well. My 2 year old is forward facing. I am comfortable that he is nearly as safe FF as he is RF. I don't always agree with statistics, and I don't want to live my life scared of them either. We do the best we can and move on.
I guess for me, it is because I find driving so dangerous that I am concerned about trying to reduce the risks of injuries in a car crash by rear-facing my kiddos if possible. I get what you are saying about the walking versus the car, though.
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#90 of 96 Old 06-11-2009, 08:38 PM
 
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And I can just imagine what this mother was thinking. Car seats are EXPENSIVE. Every time you turn around they change the laws. Each time you bought the best there is, something better comes out. So you want something that is going to last as long as it possibly can last.

When my 5 year old was about 2.5 I bought her a high back booster seat. It had the harness on it and went up to 100lbs. I thought I would never have to buy another seat. I was unaware however that the harness came off and you could only use the seatbelt after 40lbs. Which she hit at age 3. At age three I bought the EvenFlo Advanced (Nautilus wasn't out yet) Other than the Regent which I could not afford it had the highest weight limit for the harness. She outgrew that at 5. So I bought her the Nautilus. This doesn't even count her original Evenflo. So for this one, 5 year old child, I have spent well over $400 on car seats. Because she keeps growing and they keep changing the laws.

There is also the fact that I thin MOST PEOPLE are not aware of the fact that with the high back boosters you can't use the harness after X pounds until after you buy it and bring it home. By then it feels too late and you feel screwed. They should make that info CLEAR ON THE BOX. That way if you have tall children you will KNOW that you are going to have to buy another car seat. A 3 year old is not ready for a belt only booster seat.
With respect, it is clear on the box. And two years ago, there were other seats that went higher than 50# and cost less than the Regent. I'm not saying this just to be right, but to make the point that if carseats are a major purchase (they are for me!), people need to do their research before stepping in the store.

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