I want to throw up. - Mothering Forums
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
#1 of 96 Old 06-10-2009, 10:45 PM - Thread Starter
 
krisnic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 658
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Since I don't work there anymore, I can complain about it. I worked at Babies R Us for a year and a half. In the past couple months I have had arguments with the supervisor of baby gear (car seats included) and other employees about the safety of rear-facing. She refused to agree that it was a good idea.

A couple days ago I was telling her how I had to talk a family out of buying a Nautilus for their 6 month old. Her response? "Well technically he probably could have used it because he might be over the 20 pound mark." After I told her that Michigan law was one year AND 20 pounds, she just said: "oh".

I went to the store manager and told her that it concerned me that the person in charge of carseats doesn't even know the laws of the state. Her response? "Well technically the forward facing thing is just a recommendation, not a law." Ummm no! How scary is this??? I was quick to correct her immediately.

I've been battling them for over a year to get fliers about car seat installation. We used to have them, but don't anymore. Nobody thinks it's important. I used to give one out to everyone that bought a carseat from me, and encouraged others to as well. They have replaced them with stroller fitness classes.

When I was first hired there they were telling customers that the only carseat that was allowed on airplanes was the Britax. Don't know where they got that from...

On top of that, one of our employees had to stop breastfeeding her daughter because the store (the breast-feeding friendly store as they say) wouldn't allow her an extra 5 minutes on her break to pump. But that's off topic and a different rant.

So glad I'm out of there, but worried about the families that don't know any better.
krisnic is offline  
#2 of 96 Old 06-10-2009, 10:48 PM
 
annettemarie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: In the Restricted Section
Posts: 41,827
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
I can appreciate your passion, but do people really expect the clerks at Babies R Us to be carseat experts?

Flowers, fairies, gardens, and rainbows-- Seasons of Joy: 10 weeks of crafts, handwork, painting, coloring, circle time, fairy tales, and more!
Check out the blog for family fun, homeschooling, books, simple living, and 6 fabulous children, including twin toddlers

annettemarie is offline  
#3 of 96 Old 06-10-2009, 10:50 PM
 
1littlebit's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 4,189
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
i think knowing the most basic law is important b/c their employees could give someone the wrong info.

why would someone think rear facing is not a good idea?
1littlebit is offline  
#4 of 96 Old 06-10-2009, 10:50 PM
 
2cutiekitties's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Georgia baby
Posts: 1,182
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Is this something you can make your local news aware of? I mean this shouldnt be something controversial like vaxes. :
2cutiekitties is offline  
#5 of 96 Old 06-10-2009, 10:53 PM
 
annettemarie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: In the Restricted Section
Posts: 41,827
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1littlebit View Post
i think knowing the most basic law is important b/c their employees could give someone the wrong info.

why would someone think rear facing is not a good idea?
I know I'm just off-topic, and I do apologize. I'm just surprised a store would allow employees to give legal information at all. Obviously, anyone can get the law wrong. I know if I was buying a carseat, while I would expect the clerk to know about the carseat, I would be surprised (and annoyed actually) if they started informing me about the law, especially if they were wrong like these two people were. And giving out any legal advice seems like a lawsuit waiting to happen.

Flowers, fairies, gardens, and rainbows-- Seasons of Joy: 10 weeks of crafts, handwork, painting, coloring, circle time, fairy tales, and more!
Check out the blog for family fun, homeschooling, books, simple living, and 6 fabulous children, including twin toddlers

annettemarie is offline  
#6 of 96 Old 06-10-2009, 10:58 PM
 
1littlebit's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 4,189
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
thats true. you would think they would have a policy on that. admittedly its hard to know what is good about each carseat if you don't even think rear facing is safer.
1littlebit is offline  
#7 of 96 Old 06-10-2009, 11:08 PM - Thread Starter
 
krisnic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 658
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
We can't give out any information about safety reports. Such as, we can't say that Britax is proven to be safer than Cosco because of legal reasons (that and the fact that there aren't really reports like that out there that give a good enough answer). However, we do tell the laws. And yeah, customers expect us to know a lot. They have even asked us how to install them, which we absolutely cannot comment on. We can tell them that there are recommendations for extended rear-facing and such.

A lot of people at the store don't feel rear-facing is a good idea. One woman told me that it wasn't good because the child would be able to move the seat by being rear-facing at an older age, and that every time the seat moves the safety goes down. However, if the seat is installed correctly am I right in assuming that it shouldn't be able to move like that?
krisnic is offline  
#8 of 96 Old 06-10-2009, 11:12 PM
 
1littlebit's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 4,189
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
i don't think a kid would be able to move it if its installed correctly.
1littlebit is offline  
#9 of 96 Old 06-10-2009, 11:23 PM
 
tayndrewsmama's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: WI
Posts: 11,228
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by annettemarie View Post
I know I'm just off-topic, and I do apologize. I'm just surprised a store would allow employees to give legal information at all. Obviously, anyone can get the law wrong. I know if I was buying a carseat, while I would expect the clerk to know about the carseat, I would be surprised (and annoyed actually) if they started informing me about the law, especially if they were wrong like these two people were. And giving out any legal advice seems like a lawsuit waiting to happen.
Exactly what I was thinking too. Honestly, I wouldn't expect anyone at the store to be able to tell me anything about anything there beyond the price and stocking info. I have pretty low expectations based on experience so I never even ask anymore.
tayndrewsmama is offline  
#10 of 96 Old 06-10-2009, 11:24 PM
 
allisonrose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: NoVa
Posts: 1,996
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Just recently I spoke to a mama who'd purchased a forward facing only carseat for her 11 month old on the basis of a recommendation from a big-box (non-baby specific) store. I thought about calling them and letting them know that their clerks shouldn't be giving out advice on carseats especially illegal advice that could catch up to them later but I have a bit of history with that store....

Mama to Blake, 5, and Grant, 3
ribbonpb.gif
allisonrose is offline  
#11 of 96 Old 06-10-2009, 11:36 PM - Thread Starter
 
krisnic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 658
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I guess I compare it to Best Buy and such. You ask for opinions from them (even if you don't really take it into a lot of consideration) and it may/may not influence your decision. My mother is the type that takes the salespersons opinions as the gospel.
krisnic is offline  
#12 of 96 Old 06-10-2009, 11:42 PM
 
1littlebit's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 4,189
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
what if the salesperson has no idea what they are talking about? IME if you want the sales people to know anything about what they are selling you have to go to a store that specifically focuses on what you want.

for instance the lady restocking the aisle at target has absolutely no idea what kind of baby sling i should buy.
1littlebit is offline  
#13 of 96 Old 06-10-2009, 11:45 PM
 
claddaghmom's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 4,074
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by annettemarie View Post
I know I'm just off-topic, and I do apologize. I'm just surprised a store would allow employees to give legal information at all. Obviously, anyone can get the law wrong. I know if I was buying a carseat, while I would expect the clerk to know about the carseat, I would be surprised (and annoyed actually) if they started informing me about the law, especially if they were wrong like these two people were. And giving out any legal advice seems like a lawsuit waiting to happen.
I was thinking the same thing. I used to work at a big box and we weren't allowed to share liability type advice. It sets the employee and employer up for huge lawsuits.

Although one time I put aside the legal fear and told a guy he couldn't put a propane heater on the table next to his daughter's crib. (Ice storm cut electricity for a few days over here).

Seriously...??? If you have no electricity, why aren't you holding your newborn anyways... agh!

Mama to expecting Babe 2
claddaghmom is offline  
#14 of 96 Old 06-10-2009, 11:47 PM
 
aniT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Oregon, by way of Cali.
Posts: 16,520
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
http://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,1607,7...3709--,00.html

There is no mention of forward facing until 20lbs or 1 year being a law. I know many states have this recommendation,and some people thin it is law.. but it's not. Your own states website doesn't even mention.

Now I am not saying one is better than the other. But I don't thin it is worth getting upset over the fact that a store wont give out "legal" advise when it is not even a law.
aniT is offline  
#15 of 96 Old 06-10-2009, 11:48 PM - Thread Starter
 
krisnic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 658
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
But aren't you doing that in a baby store? A store that specializes in baby products? I would think it would be necessary on the company's front to train the employees to have accurate information about products and laws that go along with them when they impact the safety of the customer and their families.

I think a lot of customers do plenty of research on their own, but for those like my mother, who only listen to the salesperson, I worry.
krisnic is offline  
#16 of 96 Old 06-10-2009, 11:49 PM
 
tayndrewsmama's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: WI
Posts: 11,228
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by aniT View Post
http://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,1607,7...3709--,00.html

There is no mention of forward facing until 20lbs or 1 year being a law. I know many states have this recommendation,and some people thin it is law.. but it's not. Your own states website doesn't even mention.

Now I am not saying one is better than the other. But I don't thin it is worth getting upset over the fact that a store wont give out "legal" advise when it is not even a law.
And mix-ups like this are exactly why stores shouldn't have clerks giving out advice unless they are thoroughly trained on the product and applicable laws.
tayndrewsmama is offline  
#17 of 96 Old 06-10-2009, 11:49 PM - Thread Starter
 
krisnic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 658
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
krisnic is offline  
#18 of 96 Old 06-10-2009, 11:50 PM
 
1littlebit's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 4,189
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
i worry about someone who only listens to salespeople whether the sales people are informed or not. well i actually don't... but i do think thats bizarre... you don't even know them they may have absolutely no idea what they are talking about but enjoy making things up for fun.
1littlebit is offline  
#19 of 96 Old 06-10-2009, 11:52 PM
 
tayndrewsmama's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: WI
Posts: 11,228
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by krisnic View Post
But aren't you doing that in a baby store? A store that specializes in baby products? I would think it would be necessary on the company's front to train the employees to have accurate information about products and laws that go along with them when they impact the safety of the customer and their families.

I think a lot of customers do plenty of research on their own, but for those like my mother, who only listen to the salesperson, I worry.
I understand what you are saying here and your heart is certainly in the right place, but BRU is not in position to do that. To be sure that accurate info is being given it would really require the product manufacturers to come in an do product training. Places do do this, but I just don't see it being a cost-effective plan in retail store like that.
tayndrewsmama is offline  
#20 of 96 Old 06-10-2009, 11:56 PM - Thread Starter
 
krisnic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 658
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
If you can't go to a baby store to get advice where would someone actually go? Most people aren't going to bother researching it online, just to be brutally honest. Obviously anywhere you go you get skewed advice anyway due to them trying to get higher sales and profits, but if you can't get advice from a clerk at a baby store, where else are you going to get it? Doctors don't know that information, most people don't know about SafeKids or would bother to call...
krisnic is offline  
#21 of 96 Old 06-10-2009, 11:56 PM
 
chickabiddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,472
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Posters are not laws.

The actual law is here: http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(dgz...e=mcl-257-710d .

There is no specific mention that a child needs to be 1 year and 20 pounds to forward-face, but the law does require that the seat be used "properly", which is held to mean in accordance with manufacturer requirements. There is currently no forward-facing seat on the market that requires a child to be LESS than 1 year and 20 pounds, but some seats require MORE (Britax Frontier requires 2 years and 25 pounds, Compass True Fit requires 1 year and 23 pounds, etc.), so while it is illegal to turn a child forward-facing at six months, it's not because there's a specific law against it but because the law requires adherence to carseat limits.

Carseat-checking (CPST) and WAH mama to a twelve-year-old girl.
chickabiddy is online now  
#22 of 96 Old 06-10-2009, 11:57 PM
 
tayndrewsmama's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: WI
Posts: 11,228
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by krisnic View Post
The odd thing about this is that the link on the bottom of that pdf takes you to the same site that aniT linked previously. I can't find anything more than that pdf that says that is what MI law is. Odd.

ETA: This link says should not must or that it is law.
tayndrewsmama is offline  
#23 of 96 Old 06-10-2009, 11:59 PM
 
aniT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Oregon, by way of Cali.
Posts: 16,520
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by krisnic View Post
that is a survey.. and a very long one. Is there a specific page where it says what the law is? Because again, your own state's website doenst say this.
aniT is offline  
#24 of 96 Old 06-10-2009, 11:59 PM
 
chickabiddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,472
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
I linked the actual law a few posts up.

Carseat-checking (CPST) and WAH mama to a twelve-year-old girl.
chickabiddy is online now  
#25 of 96 Old 06-11-2009, 12:03 AM - Thread Starter
 
krisnic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 658
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I may be wrong then, I have always heard that was the law here (including from my firefighter/EMT neighbor, but I guess he could be wrong as well). Maybe I'm the one in the wrong then, which would make my whole post a complete wash and makes me even sicker then when I started it. I just honestly feel that safety should be pushed more with parents who are asking about it. Obviously legal concerns have to be taken into consideration however.
krisnic is offline  
#26 of 96 Old 06-11-2009, 12:04 AM - Thread Starter
 
krisnic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 658
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I don't get a survey - I get a poster that states that children must be 20 pounds and one year to forward face and that it's the law.
krisnic is offline  
#27 of 96 Old 06-11-2009, 12:04 AM
 
tayndrewsmama's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: WI
Posts: 11,228
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by krisnic View Post
If you can't go to a baby store to get advice where would someone actually go? Most people aren't going to bother researching it online, just to be brutally honest. Obviously anywhere you go you get skewed advice anyway due to them trying to get higher sales and profits, but if you can't get advice from a clerk at a baby store, where else are you going to get it? Doctors don't know that information, most people don't know about SafeKids or would bother to call...
There's a reason why they say you are your own best advocate. I know that people do it, but it's not anyone's fault but their own if they blindly rely on the advice of a random stranger for the decisions they make in life. I realize that may sound harsh, but it's just the truth.
tayndrewsmama is offline  
#28 of 96 Old 06-11-2009, 12:05 AM
 
aniT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Oregon, by way of Cali.
Posts: 16,520
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by chickabiddy View Post
I linked the actual law a few posts up.
yea.. I saw that later.

So, it looks like in this case, the employees of BRU were correct. It's jut a recommendation not a law and as such it's not their business to tell people what they can and cannot buy.
aniT is offline  
#29 of 96 Old 06-11-2009, 12:06 AM
 
chickabiddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,472
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Firefighters and EMTs are not CPSTs (some are, of course, but not all). Firefighters know how to fight fires. CPSTs know carseats. If people have carseat questions, they should ask CPSTs. If their house is on fire, they should call firefighters. I know carseats, but can't do much about raging flames. The reverse is also true for firefighters.

Carseat-checking (CPST) and WAH mama to a twelve-year-old girl.
chickabiddy is online now  
#30 of 96 Old 06-11-2009, 12:09 AM
 
chickabiddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,472
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by aniT View Post
yea.. I saw that later.

So, it looks like in this case, the employees of BRU were correct. It's jut a recommendation not a law and as such it's not their business to tell people what they can and cannot buy.
No. It is the law -- not just a recommendation -- that a seat cannot be used contrary to manufacturer's directions. If the manufacturer does not certify a forward-facing seat for use by a 9-month-old (and no US manufacturer does), it would be illegal for a 9-month-old to use the seat. It's not illegal to sell it, but it would be illegal to use it.

Carseat-checking (CPST) and WAH mama to a twelve-year-old girl.
chickabiddy is online now  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Drag and Drop File Upload
Drag files here to attach!
Upload Progress: 0
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Mothering Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off