Keep kids rear facing till age 4 message hits the mainstream media - Mothering Forums
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#1 of 102 Old 06-12-2009, 09:01 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I was sitting watching a little GMA this morning and was pleasantly surprised when I saw this segment about how much safer it is to keep kids rear facing till age 4. : It was based on a British study that was released today.

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#2 of 102 Old 06-12-2009, 09:47 AM
 
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Oh, finally. USA is starting to catch on!
Great news!
I was wondering why she didn't mention high-back booster in that last part there, but ok.

And yeah, I live in a scandinavian country where RF-ing is the standard up til 4-5 (maybe even 6) yo. and then HHB. And it's been recomended for years and years, at least as longs as 8-10 years probably. And not only sugested to be safer like the lady said in the video, but proven to be many, many times safer. There's really no doubt here, keep them RF-ing as long as possible. But we also have seats to make it happen with, I dunno what the highest RF-ing seat goes to in the States, but here it's up to 25 kg. (55 pounds 2 oz).

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#3 of 102 Old 06-12-2009, 09:50 AM
 
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Riverscout....you beat me to the punch.

Now maybe my family won't look at me like I've grown a 3rd eye in the middle of my forehead!! Way to go GMA!
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#4 of 102 Old 06-12-2009, 10:01 AM
 
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I have a purely logistical question about rear facing children beyond 1 year. When we turned both of our girls around their legs were already scrunching up to fit since they couldn't hang off the end of the seat. If your child is 2-4 yrs old, where do you put their feet/legs in a rear-facing situation? My girls are tall and I just can't imagine it. They'd have their knees in their face if they were rear facing.

I'm genuinely curious. I've wondered about this ever since hearing on MDC and elsewhere that it's safer to keep them rear facing longer.
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#5 of 102 Old 06-12-2009, 10:14 AM
 
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I have a purely logistical question about rear facing children beyond 1 year. When we turned both of our girls around their legs were already scrunching up to fit since they couldn't hang off the end of the seat. If your child is 2-4 yrs old, where do you put their feet/legs in a rear-facing situation? My girls are tall and I just can't imagine it. They'd have their knees in their face if they were rear facing.

I'm genuinely curious. I've wondered about this ever since hearing on MDC and elsewhere that it's safer to keep them rear facing longer.
Me too. I'm sure its safer, I have no doubt in my mind about that. I am also sure its safer for all of us to sit in car seats rearfacing (assuming you could get one made where your legs lay appropriately)....or not drive at all. I just wonder when its going to end - At 2 yrs old RF is safer than FF, at 3 yrs old its safer than FF, at....8 years old....etc.

I'm really surprised to hear that about the Scandinavian countries though. I live in Germany and always considered the Americans to be a lot less lax than the Europeans on the issues of car seats. Maybe things have changed since I last tried to buy an infant car seat, but I was forced to turn my first child FF a lot younger than I wanted to because of my lack of options for RF car seats. I actually had to bring back car seats from the U.S. to get the RF for longer.
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#6 of 102 Old 06-12-2009, 10:35 AM
 
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From what I've learned (mainly on this board) is that bent legs don't break. But, a child bracing them for impact will be more likely to have his/her legs broke. Many European countries are more safety conscious in this regard than the U.S. Across the ocean they have seats that RF to 50-55lbs. In the US we finally have one that will RF to 40lbs. Once the west coast & midwestern people finish getting out of bed this morning I'm sure you'll get more responses.

FWIW....DS is 2.5yrs, FF in a Nautilus. We went on a long trip a couple of weeks ago and probably 3/4 of the time his legs were bent just like a child ERF would.
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#7 of 102 Old 06-12-2009, 10:47 AM
 
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Legs are no big deal. My kids put their feet up on the back of the car's seat. I've seen kids cross their legs. I've never heard of a documented case where rear facing caused injury to the legs but either way, its better a broken leg than a broken neck.
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#8 of 102 Old 06-12-2009, 10:53 AM
 
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oh im gonna post this on FB....i have lotsa mommy friends that think im crazy! i would so LOVE on of those european seats!! my 36lber is ffing now and only 2.5

Mama to Amelia - age 6

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#9 of 102 Old 06-12-2009, 11:02 AM
 
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Originally Posted by aprildawn View Post
I have a purely logistical question about rear facing children beyond 1 year. When we turned both of our girls around their legs were already scrunching up to fit since they couldn't hang off the end of the seat. If your child is 2-4 yrs old, where do you put their feet/legs in a rear-facing situation? My girls are tall and I just can't imagine it. They'd have their knees in their face if they were rear facing.

I'm genuinely curious. I've wondered about this ever since hearing on MDC and elsewhere that it's safer to keep them rear facing longer.
I'm just the person to ask then, I have my two 5.5 yo. RF-ing still.
One is about 45 inches and the other about 46 inches long. My girl has really long legs. They cross their legs, or have them out on the sides.
It's really not a big deal at all, they never complain. It is not dangerous at all.

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#10 of 102 Old 06-12-2009, 11:03 AM
 
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My question isn't about the safety of their legs, but about the logistics of where their legs go. My girls would literally have knees in their faces if they were rear facing. I'm not exaggerating. I guess they could sit with their legs criss-crossed. My oldest just turned 7 and her feet hang about 6 inches from the floor of the car when in a high-back booster. (She's tall enough to ride most roller coasters. She afraid to ride them, but could because she's tall enough.) But according to one of the PPs, if we lived in parts of Europe she'd be rear facing as well. I just need help seeing a picture of where their legs/feet *go* when rear facing...that's all.

ETA: thanks pixiekisses. we cross-posted!
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#11 of 102 Old 06-12-2009, 11:04 AM
 
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I saw the news piece as well and wasn't as thrilled. I agree with the others concerned for the child's comfort and in my DS 3's case worried about hip displacement (He already has hip issues). Even the child in the segment couldn't get into the seat and decently place his legs, I know because I was watching to see what the little guy did. I know that for babies it's bad to put them in jumpers or baby bjorns where their hips are forced to be in an unnatural position for a prolonged period of time. If a child is scrunching to fit their legs while they sit in a car for a prolonged period of time I don't see a major difference. Yes a child could try to move their legs in the seat, but it wouldn't be an easy or natural movement.

For those that it works for, great, I just don't see us shifting my 3 year old right now.

My youngest DS, now 14 months, is still rear facing, and he will stay there until his legs get scrunched and he's contorting himself to be rear facing. Once he reaches that point I am still going to move him forward facing. I hope that this study stops parents from automatically facing their children forward when they turn one.

For those making it work til your child is older - good for you!
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#12 of 102 Old 06-12-2009, 11:09 AM
 
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Most long-legged rearfacing kids sit criss-cross-applesauce or hang their legs off the side of the seat. I agree it doesn't look all that comfortable to me, but I'm old and fat and kids are amazingly flexible and seem happy in all sorts of positions that I wouldn't be!

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#13 of 102 Old 06-12-2009, 11:13 AM
 
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Originally Posted by pixiekisses View Post
I'm just the person to ask then, I have my two 5.5 yo. RF-ing still.
One is about 45 inches and the other about 46 inches long. My girl has really long legs. They cross their legs, or have them out on the sides.
It's really not a big deal at all, they never complain. It is not dangerous at all.
I can see the legs going over the side if you only had one kid in a center spot... but it looks like you have 5 kids from your sig?? So don't you have a lot of car seats smashed together? What are you driving that they have room for their legs to flop over?

I have 3 car seats in a row, no ones legs are going anywhere.

My girls are rearfacing and probably will be until the leg thing gets ridiculous. They're still tiny with tons of room at 14 months...

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#14 of 102 Old 06-12-2009, 11:31 AM
 
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My DD actually stretches her legs out to the headrest whie RF and sleeps that way. Or she crosses them. Once the seat is fastened she is fine, but getting it buckled can get a little tricky, especially if she is fight it.

Oh, and FWIW, we have DD RF in a boulevard and an infant in a bucket next to her so the 3rd seat is open for another adut. We have a boneville.

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#15 of 102 Old 06-12-2009, 11:35 AM
 
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IMHO....I know the idea of RF to 3, 4, 5 years old sounds great. But, I think our real focus right now should be teaching and convincing parents to at least RF until 2 or to the RF limits of the seat. That should be the real focus right now. My 2 cents worth.
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#16 of 102 Old 06-12-2009, 12:02 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by soxthecatrules View Post
In the US we finally have one that will RF to 40lbs.
We do? Which one?

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#17 of 102 Old 06-12-2009, 12:06 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by soxthecatrules View Post
IMHO....I know the idea of RF to 3, 4, 5 years old sounds great. But, I think our real focus right now should be teaching and convincing parents to at least RF until 2 or to the RF limits of the seat. That should be the real focus right now. My 2 cents worth.
I completely agree. Someone mentioned that in the segment...to keep them RF to the limits of the seat.

While I don't think the segment was perfect, I was really glad to see something that got the message out there to so many people to not turn their kids at one year and 20 pounds.

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#18 of 102 Old 06-12-2009, 12:06 PM
 
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Graco MyRide 65.

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#19 of 102 Old 06-12-2009, 12:10 PM
 
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We do? Which one?
It is the Graco MyRide65

My DD is almost 4 and still RF. She puts her legs over the sides, up the back of the seat, or in a diamond shape. But this is awesome to have something else to show the grandparents that think I am nuts for keeping her RF still.

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#20 of 102 Old 06-12-2009, 12:12 PM
 
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It would be nice if we actually had seats here that would get most kids rfing to 4...sigh!

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#21 of 102 Old 06-12-2009, 12:22 PM
 
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I only found out about the RF issue a few months ago.

I had no idea that turning them around at 1 year wasn't the best thing to do. I couldn't believe I'd never head anything about it. I have no idea how I missed it. I assumed that the weight and heights on the box were the safe way to go.


Dd is 3.5 and in a booster seat. We had bought the booster before I knew how much safer the 5 point harness is and now we are in the process of saving up for a new car seat for her.

I really wish I would have known this sooner.

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#22 of 102 Old 06-12-2009, 12:28 PM
 
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I only found out about the RF issue a few months ago.

I had no idea that turning them around at 1 year wasn't the best thing to do. I couldn't believe I'd never head anything about it. I have no idea how I missed it. I assumed that the weight and heights on the box were the safe way to go.


Dd is 3.5 and in a booster seat. We had bought the booster before I knew how much safer the 5 point harness is and now we are in the process of saving up for a new car seat for her.

I really wish I would have known this sooner.
s:
We do the best we can with what we know, and once we know better, we do better. Hopefully you can save for a Nautilus for your DD and she'll be harnessed for a good, long time

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#23 of 102 Old 06-12-2009, 01:10 PM
 
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Does anyone have the reference for the BMJ article ABC referenced? I'm looking for it, but I haven't found it yet. Thanks!
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#24 of 102 Old 06-12-2009, 01:18 PM
 
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Does anyone have the reference for the BMJ article ABC referenced? I'm looking for it, but I haven't found it yet. Thanks!
http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/...urcetype=HWCIT
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#25 of 102 Old 06-12-2009, 01:24 PM
 
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Thanks for posting this. I put links to the story and car-seat.org on my Facebook profile.

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#26 of 102 Old 06-12-2009, 01:43 PM
 
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This is from the article for those concerned about legs (bolding mine):

Quote:
Concerns that parents may have about using rear facing seats at an older age include motion sickness and the comfort and safety of the child’s legs. However, the leg is among the most frequently injured body regions for children in forward facing seats.

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#27 of 102 Old 06-12-2009, 01:54 PM
 
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I just posted this to my facebook, too.

My 2.5 yo is tall and has long legs, yet he looks pretty dang comfy rf-ing and has never complained. Same for my 3rd child before he switched.

How funny about that old century infant seat in the pic/video on the first page, though.

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#28 of 102 Old 06-12-2009, 02:05 PM
 
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Most long-legged rearfacing kids sit criss-cross-applesauce
Yep, but it's also how my daughter sits forward facing...and how she sits on the couch, the floor, whatever...me too actually.

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#29 of 102 Old 06-12-2009, 02:17 PM
 
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Thanks!
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#30 of 102 Old 06-12-2009, 02:51 PM
 
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I can see the legs going over the side if you only had one kid in a center spot... but it looks like you have 5 kids from your sig?? So don't you have a lot of car seats smashed together? What are you driving that they have room for their legs to flop over?

I have 3 car seats in a row, no ones legs are going anywhere. (..)
We ride with me, the baby and little miss (both RF-ing) in the 1st back row, so I sit in the middle, and there's room for her legs on the side, or crossed, whatever she wants. The other 5.5 yo. RF-ing in the front, with space for his legs then obv., and the oldest (10.5 yo.) in his HHB and the 3.5 yo. RF-ing in the 2nd back row, with place for their legs then.
We need to go in a big car when we drive anywhere.

(And before anyone says anything, studys here (several scandinavian countrys, that are advanced in car seat/kids in car safety) are very clear that there is no safety difference between front/back seat, as long as there is no airbags active of course, and the studys are on RF-ing seats as far as I know. )

Quote:
Originally Posted by DahliaRW View Post
It would be nice if we actually had seats here that would get most kids rfing to 4...sigh!
Oh, you know, the market here for RF-ing seats that are higher and have higher weight limits literarely exploded when the focus on keeping kids RF-ing longer became bigger. So, if the focus increases, the car seat manufacterers will follow suit!

-pixie, my dear, and (A-88), N-98, Littlest-06/00-08/00, J-03 & Little Miss Cotton Ball Button-03 (SN), S-05, Hope-loss 09/09, Bean-loss 04/10, and littlePopcorn due feb. 8th -11.
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