safety issues - Mothering Forums
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
#1 of 43 Old 06-26-2009, 02:45 PM - Thread Starter
 
futurmama8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: where slaves reached freedom
Posts: 345
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I have a friend with two children ages 26 months and 4 years. Neither is in a seat . Their mom and grandmother have said at 2 they get rid of the car seats and just let them sit alone and I am so scared for them. She gives me an old convertible car seat for the baby but the 4 year has rode without a car seat since he was 2. She said he doesn't like it and I offered to buy her some but she just said no they are fine. She doesn't have the internet and I just need to show her how dangerous this as the baby sits on someones lap as they drive. What I need to know is:

1. What can I personally buy for them that is safe but not overly expensive?
2. What can I tell this woman about the dangers of this?
3. What if she doesn't take the car seats? I will leave them in my car for when they come with me if she doesn't.
4. What can I get for the 2 year old who is tall so that it will last them some years?
5. Is there any place I can get cheaper car seats?

Thank you
futurmama8 is offline  
#2 of 43 Old 06-26-2009, 02:53 PM
 
chickabiddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,460
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Google your local SafeKids chapter: if there is a carseat check, the kids will likely leave in seats.

I'm assuming that these folks are not interested in best practice recommendations, so I'll be focusing on budget and ease of use. For the 4yo, assuming s/he is at least average size, you could get a highbacked Graco Turbobooster from albeebaby.com for $40. For the 2yo, you can get an Evenflo Chase for around $60.

Carseat-checking (CPST) and WAH mama to a twelve-year-old girl.
chickabiddy is online now  
#3 of 43 Old 06-26-2009, 03:08 PM
 
bajamergrrl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 864
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Do you think your friend might be receptive if you printed this out for her?http://www.aap.org/family/carseatguide.htm
bajamergrrl is offline  
#4 of 43 Old 06-26-2009, 03:15 PM
 
rootzdawta's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Squarely Outside of the Box
Posts: 3,698
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I agree . . . a print out might be helpful. Maybe they just don't know how serious it is.

Stay-at-home mom to 2 beautiful.busy.boisterous boys b. 08.17.05 & 12.29.08
Nirvana is . . . the living happiness of a soul which is conscious of itself and conscious of having found its own abode in the heart of the Eternal. --Gandhi
rootzdawta is offline  
#5 of 43 Old 06-26-2009, 03:19 PM
 
Youngfrankenstein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,273
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I would not buy them a seat. I think giving them info is the best bet but you can't assume it will be responded to. Is CPS an option?

Mama to 4. winner.jpghomebirth.jpg
Youngfrankenstein is offline  
#6 of 43 Old 06-26-2009, 04:27 PM - Thread Starter
 
futurmama8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: where slaves reached freedom
Posts: 345
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I will check those out chickabiddy
Thank you for that bajamergrrl. I will give this to her and ask later if she wants me to buy the seats.

Rootzdawta I really don't think they know how serious it is because their grandmother did the same thing for their mother. I really believe car seat safety should be pushed in low-income communities.

CPS is not an option because she isn't neglectful nor abusive, she just doesn't realize how freaking dangerous this can be. I want to show her pictures of the crazy things that can happen but I think me talking to her a little more will get her to change her mind.
futurmama8 is offline  
#7 of 43 Old 06-26-2009, 04:41 PM
 
Twinklefae's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Halifax, NS
Posts: 5,062
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Could you appeal to her financial sense? I've had success with a couple of people by pointing out how expensive tickets are... generally more than the cost of a seat. (At least here they are.)

Sarahknit.gifmarried to Kylehopmad.gif Mama to Orion  bouncy.gif08/07 and introducing Alice! babygirl.gif 02/11
DCP to 1 busy munchkin! and a CRST too!
 
Twinklefae is offline  
#8 of 43 Old 06-26-2009, 05:07 PM
 
bobandjess99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Northern IN
Posts: 5,912
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by futurmama8 View Post

CPS is not an option because she isn't neglectful nor abusive, she just doesn't realize how freaking dangerous this can be..
Actually, not using a carseat is not only illegal, but considered neglect, and is absolutely a CPS-reportable issue. She IS neglecting the health and safety of her children, period.

CPST
bobandjess99 is offline  
#9 of 43 Old 06-26-2009, 05:12 PM
 
Ruthla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 47,873
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Should she get into a car crash, her children could die or be permenantly brain damaged. Chances are, they would not sustain such injuries if they were properly restrained in appropriate carseats. Therefore, these potential injuries are largely preventable. That IS child neglect!

I normally say "don't call CPS unless the children are in immediate physical danger." These kids are in physical danger every time she drives them somewhere.

If you've already tried to educate her, and she's won't listen, she might pay more attention if a CPS caseworker showed up at her door.

Ruth, single mommy to Leah, 19, Hannah, 18, and Jack, 12
Ruthla is offline  
#10 of 43 Old 06-26-2009, 05:16 PM
 
chickabiddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,460
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
I would try telling her that not using seats is officially neglectful before calling.

Carseat-checking (CPST) and WAH mama to a twelve-year-old girl.
chickabiddy is online now  
#11 of 43 Old 06-26-2009, 05:24 PM
 
choli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,433
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobandjess99 View Post
Actually, not using a carseat is not only illegal, but considered neglect, and is absolutely a CPS-reportable issue. She IS neglecting the health and safety of her children, period.
That would be assuming that the OP lives in the USA. This is not the case universally.
choli is offline  
#12 of 43 Old 06-26-2009, 05:44 PM
 
AndrewsMother's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,675
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I purchased this seat for a friends 25 pound 3 year old. It lasts up to 80poinds.

Here are the seat belt laws for all states.

+ + =
AndrewsMother is offline  
#13 of 43 Old 06-26-2009, 05:51 PM - Thread Starter
 
futurmama8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: where slaves reached freedom
Posts: 345
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I understand that it is neglectful but I am not really CPS happy when she doesn't realize what can happen. I am trying to educate her and give her information so she can learn and pass this on. She is very young and is a great mother and she will do anything for them within her limits but this a cycle in her family and she doesn't know any better. So no I will not be calling cps.

Thanks Andrewsmother I think I may get that for both of the kids since the baby is almost 30 pounds. I really appreciate it.
futurmama8 is offline  
#14 of 43 Old 06-26-2009, 05:52 PM
 
tallulahma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: detroit
Posts: 2,684
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I would most definitely tell her flat out- its illegal, dangerous and if she got pulled over they could fine her and report her to cps!

I have an almost 4 year old and I cannot IMAGINE, her not being in a seat!!!!

~jen~ )O( mama to k 07/05 o 5/08 and c 12/09
tallulahma is offline  
#15 of 43 Old 06-26-2009, 05:53 PM
 
AndrewsMother's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,675
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by futurmama8 View Post
I understand that it is neglectful but I am not really CPS happy when she doesn't realize what can happen. I am trying to educate her and give her information so she can learn and pass this on. She is very young and is a great mother and she will do anything for them within her limits but this a cycle in her family and she doesn't know any better. So no I will not be calling cps.

Thanks Andrewsmother I think I may get that for both of the kids since the baby is almost 30 pounds. I really appreciate it.
I actually paid $10 less as it was on sale and I had a 15% coupon. Why don't you ask around MDC, maybe someone has a coupon or two that they could spare.

+ + =
AndrewsMother is offline  
#16 of 43 Old 06-26-2009, 06:21 PM
 
DahliaRW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Near the beautiful Cascades!
Posts: 6,667
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
The harness in that seat only goes to 40lbs, just an fyi.

Happily married to my dh, mama to ds1 (01/2005), ds2 (07/2007)  and dd (07/2009).
DahliaRW is online now  
#17 of 43 Old 06-26-2009, 06:55 PM
 
AndrewsMother's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,675
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by DahliaRW View Post
The harness in that seat only goes to 40lbs, just an fyi.
A harness to 40# and a booster to 80# is better than bumping around on the back seat.

+ + =
AndrewsMother is offline  
#18 of 43 Old 06-26-2009, 07:28 PM
 
chickabiddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,460
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewsMother View Post
A harness to 40# and a booster to 80# is better than bumping around on the back seat.
Yes, but the straps on that seat are also very short and the 4yo has probably outgrown it by height and it's not a good booster. There are better choices for not much more money.

Carseat-checking (CPST) and WAH mama to a twelve-year-old girl.
chickabiddy is online now  
#19 of 43 Old 06-26-2009, 08:05 PM - Thread Starter
 
futurmama8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: where slaves reached freedom
Posts: 345
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
what other seats do you suggest? I really think some kind of booster would be good for the 4yo boy, but which ones are good for him as he is tall and skinny. The baby girl is tall for her age but not too tall but very solid, probably about 30 pounds.

Thank you everyone for your suggestions. I am taking this seriously and plan to talk to her sunday about it when I go visit them.
futurmama8 is offline  
#20 of 43 Old 06-26-2009, 08:05 PM
 
Valid28's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 301
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Maybe you could tell her that not only are her babies safer in a car seat but that she may be putting herself in danger of losing them if only temporarily to cps. Not saying it as a threat but what if she is pulled over by the police and they were to open a case on her. Let her know that it isn't worth the legal hassle if someone were to make this an issue. YKWIM. She may never buy into the safety aspect but the fear of big brother just might motivate her to change her stance on the issue. I hope you are able to convince her soon.

Shanese mom of 2ds
Valid28 is offline  
#21 of 43 Old 06-26-2009, 08:15 PM
 
chickabiddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,460
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by futurmama8 View Post
what other seats do you suggest? I really think some kind of booster would be good for the 4yo boy, but which ones are good for him as he is tall and skinny. The baby girl is tall for her age but not too tall but very solid, probably about 30 pounds.

Thank you everyone for your suggestions. I am taking this seriously and plan to talk to her sunday about it when I go visit them.
Albeebaby has high-backed Graco Turboboosters for $40: they are a better choice for a 4yo than the Cosco HBB, since the 4yo will likely have outgrown the harness on the Cosco seat by height, and the Turbobooster is a MUCH better booster.

For the 2yo, an Evenflo Chase -- I don't have a specific site recommendation, but it's usually around $60. It also harnesses to 40#, but the harness measures 16.75" instead of 15" for the Cosco seat. The Chase also converts to a booster -- it's not a super booster, but it will do. Ideally, in 2 years or when she outgrows the harness, you can put her in the high-backed Turbobooster and get a cheap backless for the older boy, but the Chase as a booster is *definitely* better than nothing.

Carseat-checking (CPST) and WAH mama to a twelve-year-old girl.
chickabiddy is online now  
#22 of 43 Old 06-27-2009, 02:29 AM
 
Lovemy3babies's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Hazel Park, Michigan
Posts: 291
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Your a good friend!

I cant believe some here would suggest calling CPS, possibly getting children taken away from their mother because of this. I think that IS abuse of the system. While there are children being beaten, abused sexually, starving and we are going to use the system because someone doesnt put their child in the proper restraint in the car? It is worse on those children to be taken from there mother then for them not to be in the proper seats, period.

Erika, wife to geek.gif and Mommy to twins.gif born in 05, coolshine.gif born in 06, biggrinbounce.gif born in 08! Ive had 8 miscarriagesmecry.gif and am praying.gif for a sticky bean in December 2012! I homeschool.gifsaynovax.gifwinner.jpg and hope for a hbac.gif!

Lovemy3babies is offline  
#23 of 43 Old 06-27-2009, 03:23 AM
 
DahliaRW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Near the beautiful Cascades!
Posts: 6,667
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lovemy3babies View Post
Your a good friend!

I cant believe some here would suggest calling CPS, possibly getting children taken away from their mother because of this. I think that IS abuse of the system. While there are children being beaten, abused sexually, starving and we are going to use the system because someone doesnt put their child in the proper restraint in the car? It is worse on those children to be taken from there mother then for them not to be in the proper seats, period.
I have yet to hear a CPS case where children were removed for not using car seats. Usually in safety issue cases like that they just make sure that the parent fixes the issue. It takes more than one report to get children removed, usually multiple and usually really severe.

Happily married to my dh, mama to ds1 (01/2005), ds2 (07/2007)  and dd (07/2009).
DahliaRW is online now  
#24 of 43 Old 06-27-2009, 07:39 AM
 
Equuskia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Puerto Rico
Posts: 3,351
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lovemy3babies View Post
Your a good friend!

I cant believe some here would suggest calling CPS, possibly getting children taken away from their mother because of this. I think that IS abuse of the system. While there are children being beaten, abused sexually, starving and we are going to use the system because someone doesnt put their child in the proper restraint in the car? It is worse on those children to be taken from there mother then for them not to be in the proper seats, period.
mmm...I guess while they don't get in an accident, that could be true. But I think calling CPS and having them make a visit is worth it to avoid having a small child suffering with a broken neck, or confined to a wheelchair for the rest of their lives or losing a sibling because of the willful negligence of their caretaker. These children are in immediate danger every time they ride in a car. And that is what CPS is there for, to help children in immediate danger. It has even been suggested here that 911 be called when seeing an unrestrained child in a car, because that is an emergency.

Equuskia in with Nodtveidt DD1 : DD2 :
Equuskia is offline  
#25 of 43 Old 06-27-2009, 10:05 AM
 
AndrewsMother's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,675
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
CPS would rather help the friend get seats than take her children from her, but I would not call either if I had the power to help her. If after speaking to the friend and giving her seats she failed to use them I might call, but not because she has a lack of knowledge.

+ + =
AndrewsMother is offline  
#26 of 43 Old 06-27-2009, 11:30 AM
 
sapphire_chan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 27,779
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
What I don't get is why she threw away the car seats when they turned 2? Isn't that a total waste of money? I mean, I can see someone breaking the law to avoid spending more money, but breaking the law after they've already spent the money is just not sensible.
sapphire_chan is offline  
#27 of 43 Old 06-27-2009, 08:22 PM - Thread Starter
 
futurmama8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: where slaves reached freedom
Posts: 345
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The thing is that she uses really..and I mean really old seats. Like early 90s that she picked up from a yard sell. She is very out of the loop when it comes to this and doesn't know and to be honest most low income people I know don't use proper restraints for their children. She really needs to be educated first and I really don't feel like I am doing her happy babies justice if I take them away from her mother.

What if she doesn't end up using the seats that I offer and I call cps, I honestly will feel like a horrible person if her babies get taken and she will know it was me who called . I know that kids are more important but I am very loyal to people ya know?
futurmama8 is offline  
#28 of 43 Old 06-27-2009, 09:30 PM
 
triscuitsmom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Between Toronto and Ottawa, Ontario
Posts: 1,900
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by futurmama8 View Post
What if she doesn't end up using the seats that I offer and I call cps, I honestly will feel like a horrible person if her babies get taken and she will know it was me who called . I know that kids are more important but I am very loyal to people ya know?
Said as gently as possible ... How will you feel if she gets into an accident and you are left consoling her about the loss of one or both of her beloved babies? I would hate to be in your shoes... truly... I don't know how I would possibly make the call. I would have to look at whether I could know they were in an accident and feel like I had done everything in my power by offering seats and knowledge... or whether I'd have nagging thoughts that I could have done more.

Many for you in this situation Mama.

Alison
Mama to Toad (08/06), Frog (01/09)... and new baby Newt born on his due date, Sep. 8, 2010
triscuitsmom is offline  
#29 of 43 Old 06-27-2009, 11:25 PM
 
queenjane's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 3,367
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
I wouldnt call CPS. I would do my best to help educate the mom, but then i would let it go.

I dont know about other places, but around here, i doubt CPS would even investigate a "mom doesnt use carseats" call. I dont think that would even warrant a home visit. I would imagine many if not most of the people they see dont use carseats at all, dont use them properly, or have kids out of seats entirely once they are a few years old. I dont think it even rates on their radar.

You should have seen the seat i was forced to put my foster baby in when they came to take her away to relatives. I hope it wasnt expired, but the straps were really high, all twisted, it looked like crap (and i hear thats the norm)...no way would they even think to rearface her even though she was just a year old and 23 pounds.

I bet there are *foster* parents who ride around with kids in no carseats, unfortunately. Yes, the kids are in danger of dying if they get in an accident, but i think CPS would view this as having bigger fish to fry. If you DO decide to "call someone", you could call the police and say you saw someone driving on such and such street, here's the license number, two unrestrained small children in the car.

In the end though, i think you can only do so much. Maybe keep trying with the mom, from every angle you can think of (whether its the legal angle, the safety angle, the "but if theyre strapped in they cant get into trouble in the car" angle, whatever).

Good luck.

Katherine, single homeschooling mom to Boy Genius (17) geek.gif  Thing One (6) and Thing Two (6) fencing.gif and one outgoing Girl (12) bikenew.gif and hoping for more through foster care and adoption homebirth.jpgadoptionheart-1.gif 
queenjane is offline  
#30 of 43 Old 06-28-2009, 12:19 AM
 
Honey693's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 3,128
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
As an alternative to calling CPS couldn't she just call the local police department and say she saw a car with the license plate "whatever" driving by and there were two very small children not in seats? Maybe a ticket and a lecture from a cop would scare the mom if nothing else is working.

obstruct livery vehicles

Honey693 is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Mothering Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off