carseat in rv? - Mothering Forums
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
#1 of 32 Old 07-10-2009, 07:24 PM - Thread Starter
 
merryns.mom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: kinston, nc
Posts: 151
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
we're going on a road trip next month with our 1 yo dd in the family rv; excited about the trip, but what do we do about the carseat?

I'm Kelly, Mom to Merryn 7/28/08 and twins Luke & Thad born 9/26/2011
Can It Get Any Better Than This? Well, I guess it just did!joy.gif

merryns.mom is offline  
#2 of 32 Old 07-10-2009, 07:47 PM
 
an_aurora's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Palmer, AK
Posts: 6,492
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The only real option is the front passenger seat, assuming of course there is no airbag.

CPST & mom

an_aurora is offline  
#3 of 32 Old 07-10-2009, 07:54 PM
 
bobandjess99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Northern IN
Posts: 5,912
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Anna is right. To be honest, RV's are not generally capabale of safely transporting children.
No carseat manufacturer allows seats to be installed on a sideways or backwards facing seat. So you HAVE to install the seat on a forward-facing seat. in many RV's, the only seats which face forward are the front driver and passenger seats. Since your child MUST rearface, there absolutely can NOT be an airbag in front of your child, so taking your child along will only work if the front pass. seat does not have an airbag. If you do have a rear seating position which is forward facing, you woudl use that. If you do have an airbag in the front pass seat, and no other forward facing seats in the vehicle, you simply can not transport the child in that vehicle.

CPST
bobandjess99 is offline  
#4 of 32 Old 07-10-2009, 08:34 PM
 
vbactivist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,544
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
http://parents.berkeley.edu/recommen.../autos/rv.html

this thread on rv's and carseats offers an interesteing, balanced view. Hope this helps!
vbactivist is offline  
#5 of 32 Old 07-10-2009, 09:26 PM
 
Twinklefae's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Halifax, NS
Posts: 5,062
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by vbactivist View Post
http://parents.berkeley.edu/recommen.../autos/rv.html

this thread on rv's and carseats offers an interesteing, balanced view. Hope this helps!
???

That thread is saying exactly what was said here. (And some of it is quite old, and therefore laws/recommendations may have changed.)

Sarahknit.gifmarried to Kylehopmad.gif Mama to Orion  bouncy.gif08/07 and introducing Alice! babygirl.gif 02/11
DCP to 1 busy munchkin! and a CRST too!
 
Twinklefae is offline  
#6 of 32 Old 07-10-2009, 09:59 PM
 
bobandjess99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Northern IN
Posts: 5,912
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Twinklefae, I think she is referring to the posts which said, essentially "sure, go ahead and use the seat improperly, it's a vacation, it's fun, you can disregard safety to have a good time!"."

there are a lot of people who decide to disregard child safety in order to use vehicles like RV's.

depending on your state law, an RV may or may not be exempt from the carseat laws of your state. in my state, RV's are NOT exempt from passenger restraint laws, so it would in fact not only be extremely dangerous to ignore recommended safety precausions, but actually illegal as well. This might not be true in all states, however.


Edited so as not to be arguable. The sentiment still remains.

CPST
bobandjess99 is offline  
#7 of 32 Old 07-10-2009, 10:32 PM
 
vbactivist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,544
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I was just pointing out that there is more than one choice here. Yes, it is possible to weigh the risks versus the benefits - it's not very likely you will get in a collission, and if so, that there will be any serious injuries. Some people may choose the freedom to travel (still safely) even though some others would decide to forgo the trip. That's all. Not trying to be argumentative, just saying there is more than one way to look at things.

Op - i would definitely take a child on an RV trip. It would be fun, and not dangerous - probably less dangerous than car travel, actually - unless you consistently stay in the right hand lane and go below the speed limit.
vbactivist is offline  
#8 of 32 Old 07-10-2009, 10:33 PM
 
vbactivist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,544
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobandjess99 View Post
Twinklefae, I think she is referring to the posts which said, essentially "sure, go ahead and use the seat improperly, it's a vacation, it's fun, you can disregard common sense and safety to have a good time!"."

there are a lot of people who decide to disregard child safety in order to use vehicles like RV's.

depending on your state law, an RV may or may not be exempt from the carseat laws of your state. in my state, RV's are NOT exempt from passenger restraint laws, so it would in fact not only be extremely dangerous to ignore recommended safety precausions, but actually illegal as well. This might not be true in all states, however.
Nowhere did I say disregard common sense. As a matter of fact, I think it's perfectly sensible to weigh all of the risks vs the benfeits/ The risks are actually very low, in the OP's case, while the benefits are very great!
vbactivist is offline  
#9 of 32 Old 07-10-2009, 10:38 PM
 
chickabiddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,472
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by vbactivist View Post
I was just pointing out that there is more than one choice here. Yes, it is possible to weigh the risks versus the benefits - it's not very likely you will get in a collission, and if so, that there will be any serious injuries. Some people may choose the freedom to travel (still safely) even though some others would decide to forgo the trip. That's all. Not trying to be argumentative, just saying there is more than one way to look at things.

Op - i would definitely take a child on an RV trip. It would be fun, and not dangerous - probably less dangerous than car travel, actually - unless you consistently stay in the right hand lane and go below the speed limit.
The disagreement is with the "still safely" claim. Yes, parents may choose to travel, even if it is less than safe. Lap babies fly every day. It happens. Most of us, even the most militant CPSTs, know this. But it is just not accurate to say that children traveling without being properly restrained is "still safe". It isn't. They may very well remain uninjured, but that's not safety, that's luck.

Carseat-checking (CPST) and WAH mama to a twelve-year-old girl.
chickabiddy is online now  
#10 of 32 Old 07-10-2009, 10:39 PM
 
soxthecatrules's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 517
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
We were facing the same dilemma a few months back. We ended buying a pop-up camper for now. We pull it with the minivan. I'm all for keeping kids safe, but, you have to live and have some fun. I sometimes feel like we're risking our lives just by going for a walk w/ the jogging stroller. There was an accident right in front of us the other day as we waited for a light at an intersection. But, we won't stop going for walks and we won't avoid that intersection.
soxthecatrules is offline  
#11 of 32 Old 07-10-2009, 10:41 PM
 
sunnymw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: SWGA
Posts: 2,367
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
This is a huge parental call. I wouldn't be comfortable with it.

I guess, hypothetically, if there are NO safe positions other than the front passenger seat, AND if the front passenger seat had an active airbag, AND the child was over 1 and 20lbs (or 22, depending on the seat you own), then I'd guess the child would be better off harnessed FFing than flying around in the back.

Sunny coolshine.gif: gun toting, retired breastfeeding, car seat loving, guitar playing, home birthing and schooling mama to Jakob (10.06), Mikah (07.08) and Korah (07.11). uc.jpg 

sunnymw is offline  
#12 of 32 Old 07-10-2009, 10:52 PM
 
bobandjess99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Northern IN
Posts: 5,912
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunnymw View Post
This is a huge parental call. I wouldn't be comfortable with it.

I guess, hypothetically, if there are NO safe positions other than the front passenger seat, AND if the front passenger seat had an active airbag, AND the child was over 1 and 20lbs (or 22, depending on the seat you own), then I'd guess the child would be better off harnessed FFing than flying around in the back.
Well it depends... since technically, you can pretty much choose to do anything with your kids, I guess you could call it a "parental call" but for me, when I'm talking about a "parental call" i'm talkign about making a decision that, while i might not like it or agree with it, is still within the bounds of legality. Such as forward facing a 1year old child. I don't consider it to be a "parental call" when you would actually be BREAKING the law, like not using a carseat at all for a 1 yo child. to me, those are different things.
now - wherever the OP is, perhaps it IS a "parental call" in that RV's are exempt from child restraint laws there. Where i live, Rv's are NOT exempt from child restraint laws, and we do have a proper use clause, so it would indeed be illegal to, for example, install the seat on a sideways facing seat.
however,as you point out, in all fairness, yes, i suppose, that even if there is an airbag, the child could LEGALLY (not safely) be turned forward facing in the front pass. seat, and as such, the situation would be changed from one of "there is no legitimate legal choice here" to one of "parental choice".

CPST
bobandjess99 is offline  
#13 of 32 Old 07-10-2009, 10:53 PM
 
an_aurora's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Palmer, AK
Posts: 6,492
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Hypothetically, yes, but then there is the high rollover risk, coupled with projectiles.

CPST & mom

an_aurora is offline  
#14 of 32 Old 07-11-2009, 12:57 PM
 
sunnymw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: SWGA
Posts: 2,367
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by an_aurora View Post
Hypothetically, yes, but then there is the high rollover risk, coupled with projectiles.
Yep, which is why I suggested the front passenger seat, FFing *if* there is an airbag, would be better than back in the actual RV At least the 1yo wouldn't be one of the projectiles.


And bobandjess--ITA with your post. I didn't mean it's a parental decision to do something illegal, I meant a parental decision to FF the 1yo or otherwise safely restrain him/her, or forego the vacation or follow in a car. Leaving the child unrestrained would never fall under "parental decision" for me, it wouldn't even be an option that crossed my mind

Sunny coolshine.gif: gun toting, retired breastfeeding, car seat loving, guitar playing, home birthing and schooling mama to Jakob (10.06), Mikah (07.08) and Korah (07.11). uc.jpg 

sunnymw is offline  
#15 of 32 Old 07-12-2009, 01:46 PM
 
tbone_kneegrabber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: West Philly
Posts: 2,779
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
well i don't know what kind of rv it is, but before ds was born dp and I traveled in an rv that had 4 "captains" chairs: driver, passenger, and two in the next row, and THEN sideways seats, so if it was like that you could just use the second row of captains chairs.
tbone_kneegrabber is offline  
#16 of 32 Old 07-14-2009, 12:40 AM
PPK
 
PPK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,150
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by an_aurora View Post
Hypothetically, yes, but then there is the high rollover risk, coupled with projectiles.
RV's in general have a much lower risk of roll-overs than most cars and light trucks. We lived in our 30' motorhome for several years and now that we're living in it again with our son who is nearly 2 we put his seat in the FF passenger chair. Its an older rv, so no airbags. In a crash whoever has more mass usually comes out better. (No sources, just info I've learned through dh and other full-time rv'ers)...you can google and find more stats on it.
PPK is offline  
#17 of 32 Old 07-14-2009, 10:01 AM - Thread Starter
 
merryns.mom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: kinston, nc
Posts: 151
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
wow, i had no idea this was such a hot topic!

my dh and i are in the wedding of a dear friend in arkansas (we live near the north carolina coast)-plane tickets are way too expensive, and it is not a child friendly wedding. i'm still breastfeeding and my little one does not do well with other people during the night since we cosleep

so, i thought i had found the perfect solution by going with my in-laws in their nice new rv! but little did i know that this question would start a fire

but thanks for all of the responses; not sure what we'll do yet

I'm Kelly, Mom to Merryn 7/28/08 and twins Luke & Thad born 9/26/2011
Can It Get Any Better Than This? Well, I guess it just did!joy.gif

merryns.mom is offline  
#18 of 32 Old 07-14-2009, 11:01 AM
 
Evergreen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Where all the women are strong
Posts: 5,400
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
My husband and six year old will be traveling in one this summer. I have told them as long as she is in the passenger seat (provided no airbag) and the projectiles are put away it is fine.

Evergreen- Loving my girls Dylan dust.gifage8, Ava energy.gifage 4 and baby Georgia baby.gif (6/3/11).

Evergreen is offline  
#19 of 32 Old 07-14-2009, 02:32 PM
 
alllyssa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 579
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
We drove to TX from CA this past January to my son's Air Force Basic Training Graduation and took all of our kiddos. This included a 3 year old and a 1 year old (and our 3 older girls and a set of grandparents).

I'm really surprised at what I consider to be radical responses you've received. Does anyone really believe that you are going to go on a cross country roadtrip and keep your baby in the carseat the whole time? In an RV? One of the major perks of traveling in an RV is that you can get up, move around, make yourself a sandwich, go to the bath room, play a boardgame, take a nap on the bed, all while someone else is driving down the road.

Safety of course is important, but driving in an RV is pretty safe. Canceling your life because you are afraid you are going to get in an accident and die is paranoid and a complete waste of energy.

Take the carseat, buckle it in the back, use it for when baby is napping, but don't expect to keep baby in there the whole time. Like you're going to stop the RV to nurse every couple of hours, give me a break!

What about everyone else who isn't even going to be wearing their seatbelts the whole time?

Alyssa
Mama to Scott (USAF), Katie (18), Karlie (16), Kimmy (9), Klara (4.5), and Baby Khloe (2.5)
alllyssa is offline  
#20 of 32 Old 07-14-2009, 02:57 PM
 
vbactivist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,544
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by alllyssa View Post
We drove to TX from CA this past January to my son's Air Force Basic Training Graduation and took all of our kiddos. This included a 3 year old and a 1 year old (and our 3 older girls and a set of grandparents).

I'm really surprised at what I consider to be radical responses you've received. Does anyone really believe that you are going to go on a cross country roadtrip and keep your baby in the carseat the whole time? In an RV? One of the major perks of traveling in an RV is that you can get up, move around, make yourself a sandwich, go to the bath room, play a boardgame, take a nap on the bed, all while someone else is driving down the road.

Safety of course is important, but driving in an RV is pretty safe. Canceling your life because you are afraid you are going to get in an accident and die is paranoid and a complete waste of energy.

Take the carseat, buckle it in the back, use it for when baby is napping, but don't expect to keep baby in there the whole time. Like you're going to stop the RV to nurse every couple of hours, give me a break!

What about everyone else who isn't even going to be wearing their seatbelts the whole time?



Excellent post!!!
vbactivist is offline  
#21 of 32 Old 07-14-2009, 03:45 PM - Thread Starter
 
merryns.mom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: kinston, nc
Posts: 151
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
alllyssa, thanks so much:

i was beginning to be afraid that we would be riding in the rv down the interstate and a bunch of mdc moms would pull me over, and i'd be tarred & feathered

again thanks!

I'm Kelly, Mom to Merryn 7/28/08 and twins Luke & Thad born 9/26/2011
Can It Get Any Better Than This? Well, I guess it just did!joy.gif

merryns.mom is offline  
#22 of 32 Old 07-14-2009, 03:54 PM
 
Teensy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 1,737
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
We just rented an RV for a family vacation to Arizona and Utah and enjoyed it exactly as described above - the kids were able to move about, get a snack, use the bathroom, etc. I figure it's like letting my kids hike down into the canyons we visited or the horseback ride we took - some small risk of harm v. great benefit of family experiences.

Tanya
Mom to John (age 11), James (age 9) & Katherine (age 5)
Teensy is offline  
#23 of 32 Old 07-14-2009, 05:37 PM
 
MoonStarFalling's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: IL
Posts: 2,765
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I wouldn't allow myself or anyone else in the family to get out of their seatbelts while in motion. I've been talking to RVers for a couple years as we make our arrangements and it seemed like everyone promotes staying belted at all times. Even pets. This is one of the reasons why we decided to get a 5th wheel trailer so we can all ride in the towing vehicle in proper restraints.

Homeschooling mom of two plus baby R born December 16 love.gif
MoonStarFalling is offline  
#24 of 32 Old 07-14-2009, 05:55 PM
 
A Mom's Love's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Oregon
Posts: 370
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
We have traveled in an RV with dd several times. She remained buckled at all times. No exceptions. The RV is an older model-70s or so-and has a forward facing bench opposite a rear facing bench on one side. When dd was 1 1/2, 3 and 4, we traveled with her car seat installed on the forward facing bench. We had a great time!

I hope you don't consider me a safety snob, but we traveled from TN to NV and back when dd was 1 1/2 and she was in her car seat the whole time we were in motion. When we pulled over, we'd change diapers and things like that. I did get up myself though, but remained buckled when I was seated, like while flying on a plane.
A Mom's Love is offline  
#25 of 32 Old 07-14-2009, 06:04 PM
 
an_aurora's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Palmer, AK
Posts: 6,492
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by alllyssa View Post
Does anyone really believe that you are going to go on a cross country roadtrip and keep your baby in the carseat the whole time?
Yes, of course I have done more than one cross-country trip with kids and never once have they been in a moving vehicle not in a car seat.

CPST & mom

an_aurora is offline  
#26 of 32 Old 07-14-2009, 08:18 PM
 
sunnymw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: SWGA
Posts: 2,367
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by an_aurora View Post
Yes, of course I have done more than one cross-country trip with kids and never once have they been in a moving vehicle not in a car seat.
:
Even before I was a car-safety dork and knew nothing about seats, he stayed buckled the whole time. Because, well, that's common sense

Sunny coolshine.gif: gun toting, retired breastfeeding, car seat loving, guitar playing, home birthing and schooling mama to Jakob (10.06), Mikah (07.08) and Korah (07.11). uc.jpg 

sunnymw is offline  
#27 of 32 Old 07-14-2009, 09:50 PM
 
Irishmommy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: In the bat cave with heartmama
Posts: 45,981
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
We own an RV, and with permission passengers may get up for a drink/use the bathroom/switch seats (permission is important, only the driver gets to make the "is it safe" decision). If your child is rear facing, put him in the dinette seat belt (the seat the faces forward, the car seat continues to rearface). Forward facing, I would put him in the passenger seat.

And RVs generally don't have air bags. The dash is usually way too far away to make them useful. Actually, it depends on the RV. A Class A (the one that looks like a bus) doesn't have them (and sometimes doesn't have shoulder belts in the front seats, just lap belts), but Class Cs (the ones with the bunks over the driver/passenger) would almost certainly have air bags, they are on a truck chassis.
Irishmommy is offline  
#28 of 32 Old 07-14-2009, 09:51 PM
 
Irishmommy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: In the bat cave with heartmama
Posts: 45,981
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by an_aurora View Post
Yes, of course I have done more than one cross-country trip with kids and never once have they been in a moving vehicle not in a car seat.
So never by bus then?
Irishmommy is offline  
#29 of 32 Old 07-14-2009, 10:30 PM
 
an_aurora's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Palmer, AK
Posts: 6,492
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irishmommy View Post
If your child is rear facing, put him in the dinette seat belt (the seat the faces forward, the car seat continues to rearface).
The problem is that most of the "dinette" areas don't have reinforced seatbelts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Irishmommy View Post
So never by bus then?
Nope, the kids have never been on a bus. Unfortunately, we don't live in an area with public transit. Also, buses are a completely different ball game than RVs, since they are driven by professional drivers, usually are only going at street speeds, and have the compartmentalization factor.

CPST & mom

an_aurora is offline  
#30 of 32 Old 07-14-2009, 11:37 PM
 
vbactivist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,544
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by an_aurora View Post



Nope, the kids have never been on a bus. Unfortunately, we don't live in an area with public transit. Also, buses are a completely different ball game than RVs, since they are driven by professional drivers, usually are only going at street speeds, and have the compartmentalization factor.

City buses don't usually have the compartmentalization factor, especially if you are standing room only. I have ridden by train and by bus with my children, and had to stand with them. On the subway I''m sure we've gone faster than 35 mph...
vbactivist is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Drag and Drop File Upload
Drag files here to attach!
Upload Progress: 0
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Mothering Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off