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#31 of 44 Old 11-06-2009, 05:04 PM
 
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[QUOTE=lonegirl;14635258]
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Originally Posted by North_Of_60 View Post

I don't disagree, but at this age there is such a big difference between 1 years old (aka, 12 months) and 21 months, that I look at a 21 month old as almost 2 and not like a "1 year old".

If this were not a conversation about car seat safety and we were talking about shoe sizes and lunch ideas, would we still be arguing over the semantics of whether or not a 21 month old is "almost two" or "a 1 year old"? I don't think anyone would have any problem calling a 21 month old almost two in the context of shoes sizes and lunch ideas. Just saying.

QUOTE]

:

I turned Tyr at 18months and he became a very happy traveller (and mommy moved back to the front). He was a good, sturdy, strong and tall boy...and was looking very crushed RF....yes...I know his legs technically mean nothing in his RF or FF. Had he been happy and able to stretch out his legs I may have kept him RF longer but I was and am happy with my decision I made.
I am not disagreeing that RF is safer...I believe it is...we should all be able to RF and have 5pt harnesses

Your 'happiness' with your decision does not negate the fact that it was also a poor decision, an inadvisable decision and potentially a deadly decision.

CPST
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#32 of 44 Old 11-06-2009, 06:04 PM
 
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Ok, let me rephrase. You're incorrectly attributing shaming intentions to me.
It sure read that way. It seems that if you call an almost 2 year old a 1 year old it sounds far more negligent for her to be forward facing than if she were actually 2 (which she will be three months).

If facts and literal interpretations are so important, I would call her what she is - 21 months old. Sure, she's technically "one year old", but we all know at that age there is is a huge difference between 12 months and 21 months.

A one year old riding forward facing sounds so much "worse" than a two year old riding forward facing, and whether or not you meant to sound shameful by making that distinction in an attempt to play the "you're a bad mother" card to keep that child rear facing, you did.

The child is 21 months old. Should she be rearfacing since she is under 2? Yes. No need for generalizations, but if you're going to make them, make them according to her age (and she IS closer to 2 than 1), not according what suits your purpose.

Frankenstein never scared me. Marsupials do. Because they're FAST.
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#33 of 44 Old 11-06-2009, 06:46 PM
 
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Really, I promise, you're making assumptions about my feelings here

To me, a one year old does not sound 'worse' than a two year old, because they should both be rear facing.

It's not even an argument I can wrap my head around, because I wouldn't ever forward face a child of either of those ages

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#34 of 44 Old 11-06-2009, 06:49 PM
 
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[QUOTE=Maedze;14635970]
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Originally Posted by lonegirl View Post


Your 'happiness' with your decision does not negate the fact that it was also a poor decision, an inadvisable decision and potentially a deadly decision.
LOL I knew that posting here would just have me flamed!!

We were told by our doctor it was ok to turn him at 1 year (12 months) and at least 20lbs...we chose to to wait until 18 months...another 6 months bigger and stronger. I do not believe this was an inadvisable or deadly decision. We waited waaaaay longer than all our loved ones and friends kept telling us as we knew it was safer but felt fine in our decision on timing.

PAT- photosmile2.gif Mommy to a super little boy kid.gif Tyr -Nov 17, 2006 Married to joy.gif Sky -August 28, 1993 
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#35 of 44 Old 11-06-2009, 06:59 PM
 
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[QUOTE=lonegirl;14636470]
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Originally Posted by Maedze View Post

LOL I knew that posting here would just have me flamed!!

We were told by our doctor it was ok to turn him at 1 year (12 months) and at least 20lbs...we chose to to wait until 18 months...another 6 months bigger and stronger. I do not believe this was an inadvisable or deadly decision. We waited waaaaay longer than all our loved ones and friends kept telling us as we knew it was safer but felt fine in our decision on timing.
Ok, this has nothing to do with message board 'flaming' or an issue of popular or unpopular opinion.

Nor does it have anything to do with your doctor's truly awful advice (which is completely against the recommendation of the AAP, btw), nor does have anything to do with what your loved ones said, nor does it have anything to do with how you FELT about it.


This is about PHYSICS. FACTS. The fact is that no matter how you 'feel' about it, it's still dangerous. Just saying "I felt fine about my decision" doesn't make it safe, and doesn't make it fine. Your child was still suddenly put from incredibly safe to FIVE HUNDRED PER CENT MORE LIKELY TO DIE OR BE SERIOUSLY INJURED because you didn't like the way his legs looked.

Again. Not flaming. Facts.

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#36 of 44 Old 11-06-2009, 07:12 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Maedze View Post
It's not even an argument I can wrap my head around, because I wouldn't ever forward face a child of either of those ages
Well, if you're going to round an age out, round it to the CLOSEST age, not to which one sounds more convincing was all I'm saying. But since that wasn't your angle, I'm sure you'll agree 21 months is much more accurate, and closer to two, than "one year old". You know, since you're into presenting factual material and all.

Frankenstein never scared me. Marsupials do. Because they're FAST.
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#37 of 44 Old 11-06-2009, 07:17 PM
 
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Well, I feel like we're not on the same page. I said one...because I said one. I didn't round it out. The child is one. One plus how many months is not relevant to the discussion in any way, shape or form. There was no ulterior motive.


I'm not sure I understand why you're angry. If there's a technical point that I need to clarify, please let me know. Otherwise....???

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#38 of 44 Old 11-06-2009, 07:17 PM
 
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[QUOTE=lonegirl;14636470]
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Originally Posted by Maedze View Post

LOL I knew that posting here would just have me flamed!!

We were told by our doctor it was ok to turn him at 1 year (12 months) and at least 20lbs...we chose to to wait until 18 months...another 6 months bigger and stronger. I do not believe this was an inadvisable or deadly decision. We waited waaaaay longer than all our loved ones and friends kept telling us as we knew it was safer but felt fine in our decision on timing.
Respectfully, what makes your doctor an expert in car seat safety? Did the doc explain that RF is 5x safer and that you *should* wait much longer or just go ahead and say at a year it's ok? I just don't understand WHY doctors say this? The research, information, and studies are so compelling for RF and very little or nothing to be gained by FF.

Your strong, sturdy boy still does not have a stable/strong enough cervical spine to safely withstand a severe impact. Is FF really worth it?

Mama to one 2 yr. old tornado banana.gif
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#39 of 44 Old 11-06-2009, 08:32 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Maedze View Post
No, that is not the current AAP recommendation. The recommendation in full, since 2002 has been

1. A bare minimum of 1 year and 20 pounds (reflective of the fact that child restraints really didn't go beyond that)
2. After one and 20, to the limit of the convertible
3. Child restraint manufacturers need to develop seats that will keep all children rear facing to the fourth birthday



In February of this year, they published a newsletter encouraging pediatricians to tell their parents that the old rule of 1 and 20 was outdated, and that 2 years was a better safety goal. They have not revised the official recommendation above, but they are currently evaluating changing the language.
Thanks for the clarification!

-Angela
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#40 of 44 Old 11-08-2009, 10:36 AM
 
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"Your 'happiness' with your decision does not negate the fact that it was also a poor decision, an inadvisable decision and potentially a deadly decision."

I'm pretty sure that for some people, you could say all those same things about their decision to drive their kids around in a car AT ALL. The lady who crossed the center line going around a curve and almost hit me yesterday, for instance.

I'm glad the, um, "word on the street" is changing to "turn 'em at two!" rather than "turn 'em at one!" I'm so, so grateful for the new seats with higher RFing weight limits. But ERFing until 4 is not going to be a universal practice in America anytime soon. Parents will make the decision based on the existing safety data PLUS the experience their child is having PLUS their happiness with the quality of the RFing install in their car PLUS the ability (or lack thereof) to buy a new car PLUS the needs of any younger children who may have come along. A person who can do the RF/FF/RF "puzzle" pattern in the back of her small sedan is going to flip kid #1 when kid #3 is born.

Safety decisions have a lot of components. I wish the emphasis was more on installing/using seats and boosters correctly, rather than on extended harnessing or extended RFing or whatever the next "must-do" thing turns out to be. I seriously wonder how many parents are driving around my town with a RFing Britax they think is soooooo safe that is going to pitch their kid through the side window because it's not installed correctly.
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#41 of 44 Old 11-08-2009, 10:57 AM
 
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Less than 3 years ago I had 2 different pediatricians argue with me strenuously on this topic. The first insisted that I needed to turn my 19.5 pound 12 month old around to front facing. Then 3 months later a different pediatrician had the same argument with me about my then 20 pound 15 month old. Both insisted that I was endangering my child by having them rear facing at that age. Obviously, these pediatricians were wrong (and I faxed them a copy of the AAP recommendations highlighting the part about keeping kids rear facing as long as they fit and didn't exceed the weight limits of their car). My point is simply that "prevailing wisdom" has shifted over the course of a few years. I don't thing it's necessary to vilify people for following recommendations they may have been given by their pediatrician, or others, with the best of intentions. For goodness sake at least the kid is in a car seat! Any idea how many are not at almost 2??? Many.
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#42 of 44 Old 11-08-2009, 11:13 AM
 
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Originally Posted by MommaSuzi View Post
Less than 3 years ago I had 2 different pediatricians argue with me strenuously on this topic. The first insisted that I needed to turn my 19.5 pound 12 month old around to front facing. Then 3 months later a different pediatrician had the same argument with me about my then 20 pound 15 month old. Both insisted that I was endangering my child by having them rear facing at that age. Obviously, these pediatricians were wrong (and I faxed them a copy of the AAP recommendations highlighting the part about keeping kids rear facing as long as they fit and didn't exceed the weight limits of their car). My point is simply that "prevailing wisdom" has shifted over the course of a few years. I don't thing it's necessary to vilify people for following recommendations they may have been given by their pediatrician, or others, with the best of intentions. For goodness sake at least the kid is in a car seat! Any idea how many are not at almost 2??? Many.
I have mixed feelings over this. Yeah, it's awful that pediatricians are telling parents that they're fine FF at 1. Or even that it's dangerous to RF once their legs touch the back of the seat. But at the same time, as a parent, I have the responsibility to inform myself on all kinds of things. That includes keeping them as safe as possible in the car. I didn't do that at first. When my son was 1 and outgrew his 30 lb rear facing carseat, I turned him FF. I didn't know about ERF. By the time I knew, he was too large to RF in any seat they had at the time. I accept responsibility for that, though, and certainly don't go "well, at least he was in a carseat." The fact that some parents are too ignorant of basic carseat safety doesn't mean that every parent still shouldn't try to do what's best for their child. And it certainly doesn't mean that people shouldn't try to educate people on being as safe as possible.
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#43 of 44 Old 11-08-2009, 11:16 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Smithie View Post
"Your 'happiness' with your decision does not negate the fact that it was also a poor decision, an inadvisable decision and potentially a deadly decision."

I'm pretty sure that for some people, you could say all those same things about their decision to drive their kids around in a car AT ALL. The lady who crossed the center line going around a curve and almost hit me yesterday, for instance.

I'm glad the, um, "word on the street" is changing to "turn 'em at two!" rather than "turn 'em at one!" I'm so, so grateful for the new seats with higher RFing weight limits. But ERFing until 4 is not going to be a universal practice in America anytime soon. Parents will make the decision based on the existing safety data PLUS the experience their child is having PLUS their happiness with the quality of the RFing install in their car PLUS the ability (or lack thereof) to buy a new car PLUS the needs of any younger children who may have come along. A person who can do the RF/FF/RF "puzzle" pattern in the back of her small sedan is going to flip kid #1 when kid #3 is born.

Safety decisions have a lot of components. I wish the emphasis was more on installing/using seats and boosters correctly, rather than on extended harnessing or extended RFing or whatever the next "must-do" thing turns out to be. I seriously wonder how many parents are driving around my town with a RFing Britax they think is soooooo safe that is going to pitch their kid through the side window because it's not installed correctly.
Thank you! Well said

PAT- photosmile2.gif Mommy to a super little boy kid.gif Tyr -Nov 17, 2006 Married to joy.gif Sky -August 28, 1993 
Sadly, Jan 21, 2011  m/c 6w5d  angel.gif
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#44 of 44 Old 11-08-2009, 11:42 AM
 
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Originally Posted by MariesMama View Post
I have a Marathon for DD that she is getting close to outgrowing RF! Really, what would you techs do in this situation? I was thinking about a Radian to keep her RF, but really??? How much more height does the Radian have than the Marathon anyway. DD is 35" tall, not sure about her torso but she's fairly proportionate.

Blahhhhhh after my whole Roundabout (original RA) fiasco I'm so not thrilled. And jealous of my friends with teeny tiny little kids.

Any advice at all would be great.
my ds was 33 lbs at 17 months I had to turn him FF (he had a 33 lb RA) At the time I couldn't spend the money for 2 extra lbs but I wish I would have because he is now 3.5 and only weighs 36 pounds! They slow way down then they get close to 2 (Most kids anyway) If its doable i'd wait it out and weigh often or if you have the money i'd just get a 40lb RF seat (or the 45lb Radian) that wasn't an option when my son was 17 months old (2007)

~Jaclyn~ Mama to Lucas Wyatt born 5-3-06
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